Transcript
Carter
0:02
There was a time when a congressman or senator would actively pursue an agenda contrary to the president of the United States, let alone pursue an agenda for a candidate to be the nominee to be the president of the United States. They did so because in their independent judgment, not to do so would be a disservice to those who elected them. There was a time when the idea that a president would commit a crime was unthinkable, let alone would consider themselves above the law and not subject to such base elements.
Carter
0:29
There was a time when nomination races would last longer than the two whitest, least diverse caucuses slash primaries. When candidates had to campaign in multiple states representing black voters, Hispanic voters, and even people from Florida. But
Carter
0:46
But that time is not now. Now it is time for You
Corey
0:56
I'm Corey Hogan. That was Stephen Carter, Stephen One Take Carter. And tonight we're going to be talking about the upcoming South
Corey
1:06
primary, I think. Maybe. Stephen still kind of leads this. I came in with an energy like I was in command of this show, but I'm not. I got to be honest with you. I'm not. I'm not entirely on top of US politics. I'm always a little more on top of it than i think it kind of bleeds into us here in this country but uh yeah
Corey
1:24
yeah not not fully on top but hey before we get to the the meat yeah
Corey
1:29
the pith if you will the core of everything that did
Corey
1:33
did you hear that there's a cat outside that's great
Corey
1:36
there's a cat outside fantastic okay
Corey
1:40
well now i guess i got two things to talk about i got to talk about the cat and i got to talk about listener mailbag oh
Carter
1:45
oh let's do this we've
Corey
1:45
we've gotten feedback we got feedback yeah yeah
Corey
1:48
yeah we did i think it might have been from zane probably
Corey
1:51
probably wondering why he wasn't invited on the show yeah
Corey
1:54
but here's here's the here's the listener feedback question why isn't it just strategist american edition i like the strategist intro more and
Corey
2:04
and uh thank you listener anonymous listener i guess the answer to that is because we already paid for the intro music for you the people and so and
Corey
2:13
really long like we which
Carter
2:14
which is nice we we talked about how it's got some length to it and uh yeah
Carter
2:19
um and i would like to remind this listener that we don't do it for her i mean them i mean i don't know who it is i mean
Corey
2:30
so uh whoever you are whoever you are that's the answer to the question all
Corey
2:35
all right very good very
Carter
2:37
february 24th my or yeah february 24th no february february yeah Yeah, February 24th. You know what's going to happen?
Corey
2:45
This is bad even for... You
Corey
2:48
You know what's going to happen? What is going to happen? What's going to happen? The
Carter
2:50
The Republicans are going to have the South Carolina primary.
Corey
2:54
Now, the Democrats already had the
Carter
2:57
primary. Yeah, and it turns out that Joe Biden did very well. And given that he's really the only person in the race, that's pretty impressive. But still, I think that what people were worried about were black voters. Would black
Corey
3:11
black voters actually come back? That was a weird phrasing, but yeah, I'll give you another go at that one. What
Carter
3:16
What people were worried about were black voters.
Carter
3:21
that's exact same way I said it
Corey
3:23
it the first time. Yeah, you don't want to say it that way. Hang on. I think you got to think about it a bit. What
Carter
3:26
What people were worried about was the participation rates of black voter. No, that still doesn't sound good.
Carter
3:34
Anyways, black voters were the ones who were holding the keys to the success, the potential success of Joe Biden and him holding onto his office. So him getting a higher percentage of black voters participating in the South Carolina primary was really a significant milestone and really the only thing of note that I can think of that came from the South Carolina primary for the Democrats, which
Carter
3:57
which is why, Corey, I wanted to talk about the Republican South Carolina. Oh,
Corey
4:01
Oh, so you didn't want my detour into the Democratic race?
Carter
4:05
race? Well, if you did, maybe I'd have been more prepared and wouldn't have said people
Corey
4:10
are concerned about black
Corey
4:13
yeah you said it again like again you just you keep digging that hole i like
Carter
4:18
like i like to keep my oppo research team uh really uh hopping you know
Corey
4:23
know they gotta dig deep
Carter
4:24
deep for all these all these different takes that i've got february
Carter
4:29
uh nikki haley versus donald trump here's what pisses me off cory here's what pisses me off okay everybody's writing off nikki haley right
Carter
4:37
right she doesn't exist it's
Carter
4:38
it's not going to happen she's not going to win south carolina she's not going to be be able to make anything happen in Super Tuesday.
Carter
4:44
And that may be true.
Carter
4:46
But we still have two and a half more weeks before this primary actually happens. Two and a half more weeks before we actually see what the outcome looks like. Shouldn't we at the very least wait to see what the open primary determines for Nikki Haley? Shouldn't we see if she can get above 50 percent?
Carter
5:04
I mean, wouldn't it be something if she won her home state?
Corey
5:08
Well, OK, but let's talk about that. It it is her home state, right? It's not as though she doesn't have roots there. It's not as though she wasn't, I don't know, governor there. So
Corey
5:19
does it not seem like even getting just 50% of the vote there in the state that she should be most likely to win? Does that not seem like the lowest of bars that she's failing to clear at this particular moment? Let me play the other side. Why should we take this campaign seriously at this point? She lost in Iowa. She lost in New Hampshire. You You can argue about whether she underperformed or not, but she lost. And now she's going into her home state and the polls are showing her back, what, 15 points at least? Yeah, I
Carter
5:51
I mean, sure. It's more like 30. But at this stage, it
Carter
5:55
could change at any moment.
Carter
5:58
I mean, anything could happen.
Corey
5:58
happen. Sure. I mean, he drops
Carter
6:00
drops 15 points because he turns out that he is a criminal. And she picks up that 15 points, man. It's suddenly seriously close. And you know what? We've seen moves. We've seen moves.
Corey
6:12
Hold on a minute. Are you telling me that
Corey
6:15
if this 30-point gap closes to zero points, it will be a closer race? Are you really going to make that bold prediction?
Carter
6:22
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm going to do, Corey. You know what? You and I are going to have words by the end of this podcast. I'm struggling here, and you're just making fun of me. Just make it funny. I think.
Corey
6:36
I think what you were saying is kind of the hope that so many are carrying in the United States on the Democratic side, on kind of the independent side, on the Republican, hasn't lost their mind, still thinks of themselves as a Republican, not a mega Republican side.
Corey
6:50
But I equally think it
Corey
6:52
it is just hope. It is hopium. It's delusion. It's this idea that there is a race holding on against all evidence to the contrary. When this bird is cooked, this is done. Donald Trump is the nominee. Romney now we just get to see how
Corey
7:07
how and in what order my god he's replacing the chairwoman of the Republican National Committee yeah
Corey
7:13
right now that's what's in the news today Ronna
Carter
7:15
Ronna Romney was never going to last that long was I was impressed that she got re-elected at all I
Carter
7:20
I mean she's married into the Romney clan so
Corey
7:25
okay but do you really think that in a normal time where there there was a race that was even remotely in question, one of the candidates would be able to strong arm out a sitting chairwoman of the RNC.
Corey
7:40
You're a man looking for signs. And you know what they say about a man looking for signs, right?
Carter
7:44
No, I don't actually.
Corey
7:46
I actually can't remember how that saying goes, but they'll find them. You're
Corey
7:49
You're finding them. Oh, that's really good. You're finding those signs. That's really good.
Carter
7:53
I'm actually doing a whole chapter in my book on confirmation bias. So really well done. Oh, that's
Carter
7:59
Yeah, that's a really nice thing for bringing that up.
Corey
8:03
Plugging your book, too. I
Carter
8:04
I know, right? My
Corey
8:05
My God. Which is really
Carter
8:06
-wracking because it is nowhere near done. It's barely started, right? Like, it could fall apart. You
Corey
8:12
You just soft-launched your book. I did. Pre-order at
Corey
8:17
a pre-order? I don't know. I
Carter
8:19
I mean, we could take their money. Do we have to deliver? I don't know.
Corey
8:21
Oh, my God. That
Corey
8:23
That just feels like a big liability on our books, I got to tell you. Yeah,
Carter
8:26
Yeah, well, as the accountant, you'd be very upset about that. that would be i
Corey
8:29
i wouldn't love it yeah the
Carter
8:32
use for your mba by the way is
Carter
8:34
is being our accountant is the
Corey
8:37
the best and highest the strategist media corporation that's right boy
Carter
8:43
for doing that hey it's
Corey
8:43
it's very good so
Corey
8:44
so you're just missing
Carter
8:45
my thesis about the south carolina primary i
Corey
8:48
i am i need you to be serious i need you to focus well then
Carter
8:50
then let's be serious let's let's shift over then let's talk about the washington dc court of appeal and their ruling today that uh president trump still
Carter
9:02
still has to face is actually citizen trump as as he's facing these charges from uh from jack smith and the insurrection on january the 6th that's
Carter
9:12
that's kind of a big deal isn't it i
Corey
9:14
mean it is and it isn't it shouldn't actually be that shocking that we would determine that the law applies to a sitting president that was always sort of the kind
Corey
9:24
of the republican myth that americans told themselves no one was above the law you know it's a rule of law system of laws we are we are all kind of subservient to the constitution that's why they swear an oath to the constitution and the laws right and
Corey
9:39
and when you look back on uh i think it was ulysses s grant was arrested for being drunk in washington dc somewhere i can't remember what he did specifically he
Corey
9:48
he got thrown in jail but he was like yeah that's how it's got to be you got got to arrest me. I'm breaking the law. I might be president, right? But there was this sort of expectation that a president was just another citizen, a citizen entrusted with an important duty. What Donald Trump had somewhat posited through his lawyers was that, no, actually, a president is above the law. The law does not apply to a president. And the short version of his argument was, well, because otherwise people would harass them for their actions, right? They They would potentially go to jail. Their political opponents would jail them, I think, kind
Corey
10:25
kind of telling on themselves and what they would do with their political opponents. But also, I'd observe that actually hasn't happened in the hundreds of years of American history, right?
Corey
10:35
He's really the only president who is at risk of going to jail. And so, the Court of Appeal said, no, sorry about that. You are actually subject to the laws of this nation. and you
Corey
10:49
know that you know the cosmic ballet goes on let
Carter
10:52
let me tell you uh
Carter
10:53
uh president trump actually released a statement today through his lawyers and that that really jumped on to this idea that every president will wind up in jail i mean he he said essentially um this is going to force a situation where you know every time there's a change in government the the president before four will be prosecuted and put in jail and i think you make a really good point it's never happened never
Carter
11:18
never happened yeah right in fact uh you know president nixon the only one that we could really really point to some crimes being committed was actually pardoned by gerald ford now that might have cost him the subsequent election um and resulted in president jerry uh jimmy carter but nonetheless uh we we've never seen the prosecution of a former president in the united states um just one guy just one guy who happened to do a bunch of stuff so
Corey
11:46
guy seems to be pretty
Corey
11:46
pretty worried many times different different things too right the
Carter
11:50
the one and there's one more thing i wanted to bring up and that is what the framers wanted right what the framers of the of the constitution wanted was not a king right a king is by definition above the law they did not want a king i'll tell you though king charles is not above the law of cancer but
Corey
12:12
Oh, nothing that's going to make it into the final episode, as long as I remember to edit it. Okay,
Carter
12:18
Okay, did you write that down? You got the time?
Carter
12:22
But the framers did not want the president to be a king. The framers and basically every subsequent president expected that the president would be subject to the law. Even Richard Nixon, when he resigned,
Carter
12:35
resigned, rather than face an impeachment
Carter
12:40
impeachment that was definitely going to go against him.
Carter
12:44
The fact that the Republicans did not vote to impeach Trump after January the 6th is really the beginning of the sin of not holding this particular president accountable. accountable they should have impeached him they should have made it so that he couldn't seek further future office and uh instead now we're stuck with this guy who's uh creating all kinds of havoc well
Corey
13:10
well the norms it's not uh blinded insight to say have kind of dropped one by one on this particular thing but uh you go back to and yet he is going to probably wrap up in any sense the republican nomination in the next couple of weeks here so we have a situation where there is a guy who doesn't actually seem to care too much about most of the norms he is under a lot of indictments a lot of indictments you know not even like two or three we're talking dozens of indictments here yeah across multiple states across multiple jurisdictions and
Corey
13:47
and um he is going going to be the republican nominee and he's right in there in any kind of these various polls well
Carter
13:55
well i mean there is one remaining question and that is the question of can trump be on the ballot and the u.s supreme court is going to start hearing oral arguments on that case on thursday uh so two days from when we're recording this podcast uh donald trump faces another significant issue now i think that i think that the smart money is on the court allowing him to run allowing democracy to function the way that people envisioned it but
Carter
14:24
isn't it fun to play the intellectual exercise of what if of
Carter
14:28
what if what you're like what does it take uh it takes roberts kavanaugh and i think
Carter
14:35
think it's just roberts and kavanaugh who have to move right theoretically both of them could move against trump and that would be i mean that would be be terrible actually it was a 5-4 uh that would not be good for the future of the republic as it is but maybe it goes all the way to 7-2 and the only holdouts are the lunatics uh which would be pretty fantastic pretty
Corey
14:58
this is this is the same line of delusional hope that the nicki haley uh conversation no
Carter
15:05
this first of all give me some fucking credit this is the same line of of delusional hope that was against trump in 2016 this
Carter
15:13
dates back right this dates back this is something that i've been holding on to for eight fucking years so i mean don't sell me short my friend that's
Corey
15:23
that's delusion that's a good point this
Carter
15:24
this delusion lasts for a long time i'm dying to see what happens on thursday i want to see how the quote-unquote conservative justices approach approach the oral arguments and the questioning of the lawyers for each side. It's going to be fantastic.
Corey
15:42
Well, you know, if we end up being surprised, if there are some skeptical questions from the justices you mentioned, if all of a sudden it looks like Trump's candidacy
Corey
15:51
candidacy is in legal jeopardy, obviously
Corey
15:53
obviously we're in a whole new ballgame. And I suppose in a funny way,
Corey
15:57
maybe this is a way to jump back to South Carolina and Nikki Haley in a certain sense, And actually beyond that, like, one of the things I'd always assumed was half the reason to stay in the Republican race is, it's like buying an insurance policy on a house that is a magnet for lightning, you know, that has bad wiring, that looks like it could fall down at any particular moment. Someone's willing to sell you this policy. It's right there. Why don't you do it? But, you know, the reality is he's under so many different legal threats. He's under, you
Corey
16:34
know, them in multiple jurisdictions. Some of them may go forward. He may end up not being able to be the candidate for a lot of different reasons, both practical and actually legal, as you mentioned.
Corey
16:44
And while it doesn't seem probable that he'll be taken off the ballot,
Corey
16:50
there's chances that he could fall out of all sorts of things. I mean, he's also just a really old guy, if we're going to get crass about it, too. So why wouldn't you go the distance, even if you get your clock cleaned every single, every single race? Because you may end up having the second most delegates and be basically the only choice left. Well,
Carter
17:09
Well, and I think that that has to be playing for Haley and part of it. I mean, the Supreme Court is just but one decision that's going to happen. I mean, what other things could happen? He could wind up in jail. Um, that is a very reasonable, uh, threat that he faces. If he does wind up in jail, do the Republicans finally change their minds or do they just simply go down the track of, well, this is a corrupt system, uh, targeting an innocent man. I mean, that's been their path so far, Corey. It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't, uh, follow that all the way to the end. uh but you know the
Carter
17:48
way that the dc court of appeal framed their decision this thing is going back to to judge justice chutkin uh to make his you know to to begin the trial this was the one that was originally scheduled for march the 4th uh it sounds like it's going to be delayed a little bit but it does not sound like this this decision uh is going to really
Carter
18:09
really be appealable it really really feels like it's going to be something that is it may you know the
Carter
18:16
the the trial may be able to begin even even if the supreme court is looking at the question well
Corey
18:21
well i don't know if she can start the trial if the supreme court's looking at it i'd have to look at the decision again certainly
Corey
18:28
she can't look at or she can start the trial if they appeal to kind of the full appeal panel right that was one of the things that was clear in the decision so you know lots of lots of legal rope for everybody to walk through here but i think this is the other thing that's worth noting
Corey
18:44
this is a primary season and we are talking way more about
Corey
18:49
about the legal wrangling that is going on with the presumptive nominee like everything's topsy-turvy everything
Carter
18:56
well i mean it's in no small part because of what you said earlier i mean the
Carter
18:59
the odds of trump not being the candidate are slim to none the odds of biden not being the candidate are slim to none um you know if If there's no question of the outcome, then,
Carter
19:12
you know, the political wrangling is all we have left. The political judicial back and forth. I mean, there is nothing else to discuss except what's going on with the court cases.
Corey
19:24
You know, in 2015, 2016, we were all over these things. I remember having to learn things like delegate apportionment rules and how the superdelegates worked with the Democrats and all of this shit. and you know try to find the limits of of their various sets of of expectations rules you know the polling that was going on and all of this and i had a fear that i was going to have to do that again this time but that fear is now gone now i can just kind of sit here and complain about the state of american democracy well
Carter
19:54
well the state of american democracy scares the shit out of me but that's probably a different topic for a different day is
Corey
20:01
is it i mean i guess so yeah
Corey
20:03
yeah i I mean, actually, it's probably a good
Carter
20:06
good time to segue into the third one that I was talking about, and that is that we've got a candidate to be the nominee for president in Donald Trump that
Carter
20:16
that has decided that he's going to take certain issues off the table, including the child welfare benefit and the immigration reform bill. that, frankly, the Democrats made significant, significant concessions to even be talking about. It had always been the Democrats' primary principle that they would not talk about immigration without a holistic approach to people who had already immigrated to the United States and how they were going to deal with them. And the Democrats took that off the table and were willing to talk about the border issues. issues and the
Carter
20:56
republicans seemed thrilled right up to the point when donald trump said no i don't want that i want that as an election issue uh is it going to be an election issue cory if you say i want something to be an election issue doesn't it on some level take
Carter
21:11
take it off the table like i
Carter
21:13
i don't know well
Corey
21:17
well it is interesting to see his sway on kind of the republican congress particularly Particularly the House, right? Where there is a real strong vein of, if the president says jump, we say how high.
Corey
21:30
It's not, as you've mentioned in your intro, which you delivered impeccably the first time. We didn't have to restart a
Corey
21:42
The Congress is not showing a deeply independent streak. And there was some reporting in the New York Times in this last couple of days that basically put out the theory, well, part of the problem is, if
Corey
21:54
if he ran on this, I should have been president, this was stolen from me. so i am the president in a sense the minute he got everybody to buy into that it became impossible for them to maneuver around it like if if you have accepted this premise that the election was stolen and he should be president then there's a certain deference to the president that comes with that right so they've they've painted themselves into this crazy corner and there is no escaping this this vein of of mega republicanism now as long as as long as there is this kind of mass delusion that he lost the election by hook and by crook.
Carter
22:28
Yeah, I mean, that is the original sin.
Carter
22:32
You know, I think that this is the problem. When you start to accept falsehoods as your core premise, it never leads you into a strong position. It takes you only towards weakness. And I'm not sure how the Republicans get themselves out of this weakness. You know, we can pretend like everything is just going to work itself out, but it doesn't necessarily just work itself out it is a far more complex idea and we've never really seen i mean sure we've seen spin we've seen uh you know those types of issues before those types of techniques used but i don't think we've ever seen out and out falsehoods uh used for this long uh to create a political dynasty for lack of a better word
Corey
23:23
well and speaking of dynasty this
Corey
23:26
this is um if
Corey
23:27
he ended up in jail i do feel like we would just see don jr at debates you know do you think i don't
Corey
23:35
i don't i don't think he's this who's the smart trump i guess it's ivanka i don't know ivanka's
Carter
23:41
she doesn't exist anymore she hasn't been seen in public for for such a long time that no one i you know she
Corey
23:47
she used to be right Oh,
Corey
23:49
yeah. She's not with her
Carter
23:52
She's off with Jared making money with the Saudis.
Corey
23:56
Yeah. It's always a strong play hanging out in Saudi Arabia. I don't know how
Carter
24:01
how anybody can look at themselves when they're being supported
Carter
24:04
supported solely by the Saudi government. Like that to me.
Carter
24:09
How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
Corey
24:12
I don't know. It's not great. It's
Carter
24:14
It's not great at
Carter
24:15
it feels like an impossible thing you know like what a joke but
Carter
24:19
but i i just you know there used to be a really important time when congress really was a check and balance on the presidency and that's
Carter
24:29
that's the other thing that's gone like without
Carter
24:32
without a check and balance uh if if the congress simply works for the president of the united states like the congress didn't work just simply for obama There were Democrats that demanded differences and different changes and different ways of approaching things, whether they were senators or individual congresspeople. That was a core part of the checks and balances and how Obamacare came to be and how decisions get made. And we can argue. I mean, our system is so different because basically we elect a prime minister and that prime minister is given full control by their caucus. And that becomes a, I mean, we playfully refer to it as an elected dictatorship. But it certainly has more in common with that than the checks and balances system of the United States. states but this is this is all but annihilated that checks and balance system yeah
Corey
25:29
yeah well that was that's this is obviously the end of that road but we've been on that journey for a while you look at the united states since the 90s they've they've certainly become more like a parliament right i think probably since newt gingrich you can you can draw a pretty clear line from like we're just going to vote as a bloc we're
Corey
25:48
we're not going to negotiate the way we used to negotiate which which was individually and, you know, random earmarks for states and all of that. And
Corey
25:55
And this is the end of that road, right? Like they are effectively a parliamentary party for a country
Corey
26:00
country founded on a loathing of those parliaments and the authority that's performed
Corey
26:05
performed by them, I guess, right? But your point is well taken. This is not a system that was designed to have this kind of concentration and saturation of power. The whole thing was set up out of suspicion of people who acted exactly, exactly the way Donald Trump is acting, exactly the way the leaders in Congress are acting. This demanding of blind obedience and this demanding that they have authority above and beyond everybody else. And it's been observed by many people, and I'll observe it today. today, the presidency is not Article One of the US Constitution, right? The power is really supposed to be with the Congress. And the Congress has just surrendered, just surrendered at this point.
Carter
26:48
What are the consequences of that surrender?
Corey
26:52
I mean, I guess that America is going to be just
Corey
26:56
flipping back and forth and undoing decisions whenever there's an election that changes the particular government. It used to be much more gradual, I guess. But now I think you're going to have these massive periods of deadlock where you've got divided government, and then these small periods of unified government that just rams through a
Corey
27:15
a generation worth of changes, including changes to the Supreme Court and all of that. It just sort of feels like that's where we're at now. And to be... I hate to... Because there's no both sides in here. The Republicans Republicans have broken their republic. But the reality is the Democrats did do a little bit of that during that early Obama years, too, when they had the supermajority, for sure.
Carter
27:37
Yeah, I mean, I think that going
Carter
27:40
back to Newt Gingrich is probably the best play, right? Because you really are reminding me of the
Carter
27:48
the changes that he undertook and the breaking of the rules, the breaking of the norms. You know, are these norms good? Are these norms what we, you know, if
Carter
28:01
if we were to look back at it, like, am I looking at it through rose-colored glasses? For sure
Corey
28:05
sure you are. But keep going.
Carter
28:08
You know, because I think that we do need some sort of norms that we can construct government around. Whether it's, you know, the norm of truth that I talked about earlier, or the norm of checks and balances and people representing those who send them to Congress.
Carter
28:26
know, I think that those norms are fairly
Carter
28:29
fairly important, aren't they? Or am I just, you
Carter
28:32
you know, totally missing the mark on it?
Corey
28:35
Look, I'll say this. the American constitution was written a
Corey
28:38
a fuck ton of years ago by
Corey
28:40
a bunch of people who would wet themselves if they saw an iPhone who owned people. And it's been just patched very roughly based on atrocities over the years, right? Like, oh, we had a civil war based on wanting to own people. Let's just throw a few things more in there. Oh, we've got another war going and we don't have enough money. Let's create an income tax. Oh, we got, you know, like very reactively changes kind of came in and out of the constitution you think about even prohibition and all of this here yeah
Corey
29:08
this is a rickety old house like this is one that's got uh renovations and additions that are of varying quality depending on who owned it at any given time right and uh
Corey
29:22
can't imagine everything but but at the time they they kind of constructed it with this idea that they would dissuade a lot of the things we now find ourselves with right this this idea that That you would have only
Corey
29:32
only celebrity and you wouldn't even know your Congress people. That you would have these partisan blocks that were so bloody powerful. Obviously, partisanship came in very early into the American experience. But it wasn't designed for this. It's been venerated. It's actually kind of like the people who just, you know, there's this old saying in architecture, right? Something is not good because it's old. Something is not better because it's new, right? You've kind of got to look at the bones of it all here. yeah
Corey
29:58
but it's just this venerated system that doesn't deserve the veneration it gets but it's a problem because now you've got a
Corey
30:07
group of people who worship this document that is letting them down and i don't you know what's gonna what's gonna resolve they have to get back to norms for their system to work because you
Corey
30:16
you know the only other alternative is blowing the whole fucking thing up and i just don't see how that happens well
Carter
30:21
well and blowing the whole thing up is is just extremely literal i
Carter
30:25
think like i think that people don't understand how democracies change right
Carter
30:30
right democracies don't change in some sort of um slow moving uh rational way they they change dramatically quickly and that dramatically quickly is often in in some
Carter
30:44
some sort of a civil war i mean the united states went through one already um there's absolutely no reason to believe that it it wouldn't go through again democracies are fragile but
Carter
30:55
we don't acknowledge that enough we don't tend
Carter
30:58
tend them enough because we're so interested in power we sometimes just forget to to actually tend the democracy uh the thing that has you
Carter
31:08
you know brought us the value yeah
Corey
31:11
yeah the tree of liberty you know has
Corey
31:14
has to be something blood of tyrants you know it
Carter
31:17
it gets i i don't
Corey
31:18
you you're a a revolutionary i
Carter
31:20
get scared shitless about this whole thing well
Corey
31:23
well sure and we live next door it's kind of like watching your neighbors lose
Corey
31:27
lose their minds i guess you start thinking ah what's the fireproofing on my siding here i'm not really sure they've got it together yeah
Carter
31:36
um so those were the three things i wanted to talk about and i can't remember how we end this show well
Corey
31:41
well that was like 30 minutes is that the fuck they're
Carter
31:44
they're not paying extra for this they're getting it for free
Corey
31:50
we have an ending?