Transcript
Carter
0:01
was the night before tariffs, and all through the land, Canadians worried what fate was at hand. The leaders had warned us the headlines were dire, with duties and levies set soon to transpire. The workers lay restless awake in their beds, as visions of hardship swirled in their heads. Factories slowed, their future unclear, as whispers of layoffs rang sharp in the ear. When out from the news came a clamorous sound, a tweet from the South that twisted the wound. America first, a message declared, leaving a nation both shaken and scared. The markets grew tense, the dollar fell low, as industries braced for the oncoming blow. The farmers stood silent, surveying their fields, uncertain if trade would still bring them yields. then out on the lawn a red duke appeared a voice once so steady now laced with some fear my friends he called out we must stand tall but i fear the worst could befall us all he spoke of hard choices of belts pulled in tight of shelves growing bare and wallets grown light they
Carter
1:20
they tax our our timber, our auto, our grain, and every Canadian will feel the strain. The people stood somber, their hopes wearing thin, as uncertainty darkened the future within. A chill filled the air, no comfort to find, a nation held hostage to deals redefined. Then
Carter
1:42
Then came the decree, a signature signed from the hands of a leader so cruelly inclined. Trump grinned as he spoke, his voice filled with glee. Canada loses, but
Carter
1:55
but America's free. The
Carter
1:57
The factories fell silent, the trucks left unfilled, the workers dismissed, their pockets unfilled. The shelves stood empty, the streets filled with cries, as winter crept in with no heat to supply. The towns became hollow, their futures erased, as debts turned to ruin, a nation disgraced. And as dawn broke forth on a country in pain, we whispered in terror, will
Carter
2:26
will we rise again?
Carter
2:31
That was the night before tariffs. And
Carter
2:33
And this is you, the people.
Corey
2:39
well that was a real nice rendition from not as you might have imagined clement clark more but in fact that was stephen carter putting his drama education did you like that did you like the little
Carter
2:51
little drama i brought yeah
Corey
2:52
yeah and i'm cory hogan just to finish the intro you know you don't want to miss that i'm stephen carter
Corey
2:57
i already i already did that
Corey
2:58
that part but yeah
Corey
3:00
so uh you're um you're
Corey
3:02
you're You're reacting well to the tariffs, then. I think things
Corey
3:05
things are going well.
Corey
3:08
You know, not even the worst thing that America did today, and not a great thing, the
Carter
3:12
tariffs. No, I mean, I tried to get Zelensky into it, but
Carter
3:15
but it just, I wasn't, it wasn't getting there. It was, it was too hard for me, and I stopped.
Corey
3:21
Yeah. That's very good. Yeah. For the uninitiated, this is You the People, a podcast within a podcast, where Stephen Stephen and I go on a bit of a tour of American issues. This is a bit of a different one because, of course, this is a very Canadian issue today, too. Yeah,
Carter
3:37
kind of you, the people, and the strategists, you know, mixed
Corey
3:40
mixed up. It's a crossover episode. Yeah,
Carter
3:42
Yeah, this is also
Carter
3:43
also what we do when we don't have a host.
Corey
3:47
Well, I got to say, like, us doing a crossover episode with ourselves is pretty us. Pretty us, yeah.
Corey
3:54
I'm okay with it. I
Carter
3:55
mean, we could have, if we'd found another podcast worthy of the opportunity.
Corey
3:59
That's a great point. We
Carter
4:00
We could have reached out to them.
Corey
4:01
Yeah. So you, as
Corey
4:03
as always, you guide, right? And I react because, of course, you, all about the American news. You love to watch the American news. You're old. You've got Fox on all of the time, I assume. I'm
Carter
4:14
I'm always watching Fox.
Carter
4:17
But I'm going to keep it really quite simple today. I think that we're going to talk about two things and only two things. Okay.
Carter
4:25
well i guess a third depending on how you'd classify it because it's the fallout from the second oh
Corey
4:30
oh but i think today
Carter
4:31
today we have to i mean first of all we have to plug the afl league uh that we've got set up you you haven't yet joined it i
Corey
4:38
i joined yesterday okay the afl
Carter
4:40
afl tipping league is set up for uh those
Carter
4:43
those of us those people who follow the strategists and also know that the afl plays australian football
Corey
4:49
yeah i was gonna say you're gonna you're gonna explain what What, AFL is that? Yeah,
Carter
4:52
Yeah, Aussie Rules Football.
Carter
4:54
Anyways, it's up and running, and we've got some really good people in it this year. Really good people. The AFL, of course, represented by Gil McGowan, who I think is helping produce the episode. That's probably
Carter
5:11
McGowan. Is that what you're saying?
Corey
5:12
Maybe. Anybody can put the name Gil McGowan out there. So that's just something to keep in mind. Anyone can. Identity
Carter
5:19
Identity theft is what I say.
Corey
5:21
yeah it's tough right tough anyways
Carter
5:23
there's lots of great people involved and uh you
Carter
5:26
you uh you win nothing when you win except bragging rights uh
Carter
5:29
there was a number of people who beat me last year
Carter
5:32
you weren't one of them no
Corey
5:33
no i was i came in last i think yeah
Carter
5:35
yeah i think you stopped i think about halfway through you went well this is fucking stupid and
Carter
5:39
and you stopped i'm
Corey
5:41
i'm gonna do better this year i'm gonna give up earlier i think i
Carter
5:44
i think so i think you'll give up earlier i mean that is your model um speaking
Carter
5:48
speaking of giving up yeah well
Corey
5:51
well of course it shouldn't have but the the tariff announcement hit us like 907 kilograms of bricks today yeah
Corey
5:59
right through everything for a curve the markets reacted in real time we're going to start with that we're going to start with zelensky well
Carter
6:04
well why don't you no no we're starting we're starting with the tariffs for sure
Carter
6:08
we're going to move on to zelensky i mean what
Carter
6:11
what does the broader world think of this i mean i have this sense of canadianism but the broader world is interesting to me because the broader world um feels like it's paying attention but doesn't want to touch this shit
Carter
6:26
shit show with a 10-foot pole yeah
Corey
6:28
yeah i i feel like i i understand it i don't love it as a canadian but i i think everybody is sitting there saying there
Corey
6:35
there but for the grace of god go i and right and they're trying to avoid being pulled into this trump vortex and being the next person who gets his random capricious tariffs but i assume i
Corey
6:48
not in public but in closed doors in places like london where leaders were meeting everybody was saying what
Corey
6:54
what the fuck like what the absolute fuck like i bet you they don't even get to like saying the thing they're saying what the fuck about i bet you they just say it just
Corey
7:03
just And everyone else, and yeah, you know, and Macron is like, bien sûr, and you know. Yeah.
Carter
7:10
This whole episode actually was going to be just you and I going, what the fuck?
Corey
7:14
Still could be. It's not too late. We're only seven minutes in.
Carter
7:17
Because, I mean, Canadians are at a bit of a loss. I mean, I think that we're all scared. I think the Canadians are scared.
Carter
7:24
But I don't think we have a real sense of what the ramifications are. Because each of us has the individual
Carter
7:33
insulation, right? Where we're all like insulated, where this isn't going to happen. This isn't going to impact the me.
Carter
7:39
mean, this could impact someone else, but it's certainly not going to impact me. I
Carter
7:42
I think that's where most Canadians are right now. Sure.
Carter
7:46
But it's going to impact a lot of people really
Carter
7:49
really quickly, I think.
Corey
7:51
Well, yeah, because companies are going to start making decisions looking forward where they're going to say, this goes on for a while. we need cash on hand yeah we might be able to ride it out but it's not going to be pretty maybe we need to do layoffs now let's not forget corporations
Corey
8:04
corporations have been somewhat trained to overreact in these moments right because you don't want to and also it is just kind of modern day uh capitalism that you run a little closer to the line than you did in say 1950 like you don't have tons of inventory on hand i'm sure people have used the last month to build some of that stock but yeah
Corey
8:25
run it lean, you run it close to the wire. And that means that you're getting those parts a little bit later, which means these things are going to affect you a little bit sooner. Like you don't have a bunch of stuff to move through here. So
Corey
8:36
think Canadians are going to be surprised by how much this hurts. Unfortunately, I think that's a bit of a downer. Certainly, I hope it resolves quickly. Certainly, I hope Donald Trump backs down quickly. Doug Ford is out there threatening to turn off electricity. So that's kind of nice. i've appreciated
Corey
8:52
appreciated doug ford in these moments right but uh yeah i mean i think that people are a little bit nervous but i also think there's a bit of a well fuck you too attitude that maybe wasn't even there in the same way a month ago i
Corey
9:07
i i think that we were more stunned a month ago but now it almost feels like we've had time to sit with this for a while what are your thoughts well
Carter
9:14
well i think that that comes through when you even see like a mike myers on saturday night live you know wearing
Carter
9:19
his canada's not for sale t-shirt and giving
Corey
9:21
giving the elbow you know elbows up universal symbol
Carter
9:25
okay now this shit's about to get real yeah
Carter
9:28
yeah and canadians don't like being pushed around i think we're nice people um well
Carter
9:33
well i mean some of us are nice zane belgi
Carter
9:39
that that happens that happens once in a blue moon one
Corey
9:41
one out of three canadians yeah one
Carter
9:43
one out of three canadians absolute asshole um in this case zane belgi But I think that, you
Carter
9:51
know, it started off with the booing of the National Anthem. I'm intrigued to see where it winds up.
Carter
9:56
to see where it goes.
Carter
9:59
They, you know, WestJet has reported a downturn in the number of people flying on their American destinations.
Corey
10:08
Canada didn't, though. They said they were anticipating it, but nothing
Carter
10:12
Well, Air Canada flyers, you know, were
Carter
10:16
were a little bit. We're a little bit better, just
Carter
10:19
just a little bit better than the WestJet guys. But even the
Carter
10:23
the border crossings, it noted that there was some downturn in the border crossing. Yeah,
Corey
10:28
Yeah, I did see that. So
Corey
10:34
I don't know. I mean, obviously, we've already, as a country, announced retaliations. It's the exact same as what Trudeau was on primetime television that Saturday a month ago talking
Corey
10:44
talking about, right? right, which is effectively $30 billion of goods now, I think $121 billion a few, you know, three weeks from now, after some consultation period. But there's also increasing hints that there's going to be quote, unquote, non-tariff responses to I think that was in the in the memo that Trudeau put out there today, or the government did. And certainly Doug Ford has basically said, yeah, you know, hope
Corey
11:08
hope you enjoy not having electricity and, you know, looking at the various pain points that he can can start poking but we'll we'll see right definitely interesting because there's a playbook for trade wars which is you match their tariffs because you don't want to give them an advantage right like just in its simplest terms imagine america puts a 25 tariff on a car and we don't all of a sudden it makes way more sense to build cars in america because they can just send them to canada right you know they're not going to deal with that tariff once i so that's the logic of countervailing tariffs even though tariffs are generally perceived as pretty destructive right that's
Corey
11:50
that's a problem but is this a normal trade war are we just going to go tit for tat are we going to try i mean nobody's really talking dollar for dollar now because it's such a huge thing but it sounds like canada is going to do a bit of an escalation on the tariffs there or
Corey
12:05
or or is this going to look like something different because you know there isn't a school school of thought out there that says oh fuck we can't let this guy do this and not in the sense of like righteous pride but in the we're gonna train trump to just keep coming back and doing more of this stuff so we gotta hit this motherfucker hard because if you give him two and a half centimeters he's gonna take 1.6 kilometers every time right
Carter
12:29
i thought when you said two and a half centimeters you were referring to his dick size so that
Corey
12:36
a little blue We didn't need that.
Carter
12:43
don't really know what's going to happen.
Corey
12:47
Do you? I actually worry that Canadians are underreacting today. That's a bit of a feeling I have.
Carter
12:52
Yeah, I think that we could react more, but I think that we will react more as time moves along. One of the questions that I have for you is, if
Carter
13:05
are you reacting today? this is the crossover element to our strategist
Carter
13:08
strategist podcast how you know because pierre pauliev is is uh you
Carter
13:13
you know what what timbit trump uh according to uh karina
Carter
13:17
karina gould uh the best part of her campaign so far by
Carter
13:21
by far is timbit trump timbit
Carter
13:24
um timbit trump is uh pierre pauliev how is he responding is he uh taking
Carter
13:29
taking the gloves off going after the u.s well
Corey
13:31
well i i know the answer to to this so i feel like you're just sort of you're setting up i am setting you up to
Corey
13:38
yeah that's not how he's taking it you would imagine that this is an opportunity to say no america when when the chips are down canadians stand together we're not going to put up with this it's you know canadians everywhere are going to be standing up against this this is outrageous but instead we got a little bit more why
Corey
13:55
why didn't justin trudeau do something about this a month ago which which I think is a crazy take. And I saw that there was a editorial in the Toronto Sun that basically took the same approach too. Like, are we really just going to say,
Corey
14:08
like, are we going to treat Donald Trump like the weather? Like, are we going to say that, you know, whatever happens with him, that happens. There's nothing we can do about that. And it's our job to prepare for it. Like, is that, I
Corey
14:19
I don't understand. Like on a certain level, somebody is doing something to us here. It's not as though we're just sitting there and like an act of God occurred. that we should have been thinking about and preparing for. That's not what's happened here.
Carter
14:31
Well, what pisses me off about it is it's about this idea that, you know, if we'd increased our border security, if we'd done something about the fentanyl
Corey
14:39
fentanyl crisis. Yeah, ask Mexico how that's – is there any evidence of that? Is there any evidence that you could have done something to head this up?
Carter
14:46
No one has produced any evidence that this is because of the fentanyl crisis. And certainly they haven't produced any evidence that it's about some sort of rogue immigration problem of Canadians crossing the border or even a third party from third countries crossing the border into the United States. It just doesn't happen. And it doesn't happen on the world's longest unsecured border. This is ridiculous to me. But Pierre
Carter
15:14
Pierre Palliet, for whatever reason, has gone back and doubled down on everything. And one of the things he's doubled down on is the blame Trudeau. it worked for him in the past it worked for him again i mean i was driving back from revelstoke today which is why we had to postpone our little uh adventure
Carter
15:30
adventure yesterday my apologies to the subscribers
Carter
15:33
subscribers to the rest of you i don't give a fuck um
Carter
15:36
but the subscribers i feel bad for yeah
Carter
15:42
anyway i was driving back and you know i still saw the requisite number of uh you
Carter
15:46
you know fuck trudeau trudeau signs on the back of alberta license plate trucks um every truck that went by with an Alberta license plate practically said, fuck Trudeau. And maybe Pierre
Carter
15:58
Pierre Polyev is doing the same thing that Preston
Carter
16:01
Preston Manning did when Tom Flanagan ran his campaign and brought him back to the basics of the West wants in. You know, like sometimes your stuff is so good, you're so gold, you don't even recognize when it's no longer working. You just move right back to it all the time.
Corey
16:18
Yeah, and this is the thing that I mean, Even if you decided that now's the time to be partisan, right? We've got to be partisan now. This is
Carter
16:27
Yeah. Why are you pointing your guns
Corey
16:29
guns at Trudeau? He's not here. Like, once again, like, you're not
Corey
16:33
seeing, it's not even where the puck is going.
Corey
16:37
Trudeau's resigned. Like, he's given in his resignation. This is going to be over in, it's March 3rd. This is one week from now, the liberals will have a new leader. Like, this is not even like a long lead strategy if you happen to be Pierre Poliev. And
Carter
16:50
And does anybody ever, does anybody even think that the by-election that he called today is going to happen in April? Like,
Carter
16:57
to become the longest election campaign, because
Carter
17:00
because it's just going to continue on and on and on because of the imminent
Carter
17:06
I mean, this is ridiculous
Corey
17:10
Stephen, are you soft-launching the Carney general election call today? Just, I'm curious. Is that what's happening? No, I think
Carter
17:16
think that Carney launched that when he said he's open to a early election call. Okay, just
Corey
17:23
All right, just checking, just checking. You
Carter
17:25
You know, a guy soft launches a leadership campaign on a podcast one time,
Corey
17:33
time more than like anybody else I've ever met.
Carter
17:37
Yeah, I mean, how many of them have run so many campaigns though?
Corey
17:39
That's true. I mean, of all
Carter
17:40
all the campaigns I've ever run, I've only soft launched one. Can
Corey
17:44
Can I tell you my favorite part about that? So this actually happened for anybody who's like not initiated or maybe just sort of joined this show already in progress, haven't listened to our rich back catalog of thousands of episodes. I think 4,011 as of last episode. Something like
Corey
18:00
We recorded the episode. You did soft launch a leadership campaign. You said, oh, this campaign is going to launch. And you went out and you said this on the podcast and we just recorded and we moved on with our lives. And we knew this was happening for a while, Zane and I, and I don't think either of us clocked in the moment that
Corey
18:16
that you just launched a campaign and then I was going to a restaurant I remember because I remember like being in the waiting area and my phone I get a text and it's a text from this guy a friend of mine let's call him El Arab uh actually that might be a little bit too obvious let's call him Lou A and so Lou A reaches out to me and he says did Stephen Carter just fucking soft launch this campaign uh like on the podcast and i sat and i thought yeah i guess he did i
Corey
18:47
i guess it's out there now and
Corey
18:49
you know what it
Corey
18:50
it was kind of it was kind of validating in the sense that then the news wrote about it like it was like oh we're breaking news but uh that happened that's a real thing that happened and maybe maybe it's happening now too that's all i'm saying people maybe you should write articles about that political
Corey
19:05
political strategist stephen carter thank you very much thank
Carter
19:09
thank you very much i
Carter
19:10
i mean does i mean i mean no
Carter
19:12
no i did not soft launch a campaign i'm not taking i'm not taking the eat on that this time okay
Carter
19:19
i did the i did the sandra jansen campaign yeah
Corey
19:21
yeah that was my that was on me you're bad that was my
Carter
19:24
my bad i feel bad i apologize here we go let's make things better okay
Carter
19:30
what what do you think doug ford's gonna do do Do you think Doug Ford's actually going to, like, if you're his political advisor, and
Carter
19:37
as Zane would say, you're in the room,
Carter
19:41
are you giving about the electricity thing? Have you threatened it so much now that you have to follow through?
Corey
19:49
I think you do. So here's the thing about electricity. I'm not actually sure. Well, let's just put it this way. I doubt that lights are going to start going off across the Northeast if he does this, right? It's going to be different than that. it's going to create immense pressure on the system there might be people needing to talk to industrial clients and saying you've got to use a little bit less electricity but i don't think you're going to get to rolling brownouts because there's excess capacity in the system unless we happen to be in a situation where say a bunch of coal plants are in turnaround or something i don't even know if it's called turnaround in the context of like the power sector right but but if there's a situation where they're just offline maybe
Corey
20:26
maybe and maybe that's the moment that's there but i actually i don't know that it's going to cause that that otherwise so um i
Corey
20:34
i if i were him would be very careful about using that and i would pick my moment to create maximum anxiety i'm not sure i would drop it tomorrow and then have people two days later be like oh did you hear this happen like i didn't even notice kevin's not giving us electricity anymore right that would be a bit of the risk so i actually think that particular action
Corey
20:52
action is in my opinion welcome it's It's a good non-terrorist response, but I think the threat of it and the anxiety it creates is more valuable than the actual situation it creates, which again, don't misunderstand me, going to be annoying for a lot of people, but you want everyday New Yorkers saying, oh fuck, what's going to happen when this guy turns off the power? You know, that's, that's more what you've got to be shooting for there. And
Carter
21:16
And do you think there's any blowback then on Trump? I mean, bringing this back full circle to the American side, you know,
Carter
21:22
you've got these actions reactions um you
Carter
21:27
you know i i was watching an interview today where uh an economist was saying this is going to cost american households two hundred dollars more uh per month right and and that doesn't sound like a lot of money um to us because we've got the subscribers and the patreon
Corey
21:45
strategistpatreon.com if you want to if you want to join if you
Carter
21:48
you want to if you want to throw up your six bucks to keep us in the high life um but the 200
Carter
21:54
200 bucks to a lot of people's real money uh
Carter
21:56
uh it's real money to most people per month um not cory hogan money but you know zane for example would notice zane
Corey
22:05
zane would notice for sure yeah
Carter
22:07
ever cashes our checks but if he i
Corey
22:09
he cared about money or thought about it i think he
Carter
22:12
notice he would definitely notice so the question is what what do we you know what's is is there going to be enough blowback on
Carter
22:18
this particular issue uh
Carter
22:20
uh because trump did promise to end the inflation and
Carter
22:23
and he's essentially bringing in one of the most inflationary policies that a president can create well
Corey
22:28
well and he's even saying now all this could cause short-term pain but it's for long-term gain like his his language is entirely changed on this right i
Corey
22:37
i do think though we
Corey
22:39
we can't think about this issue outside side of the context we're in and i mean maybe this is a little bit too philosophical too big for you the people where we're really about dick jokes mostly we
Carter
22:51
we really are but
Carter
22:52
and a half inches or
Corey
22:54
centimeters see what i'm saying two and a half centimeters come on i'm so close yeah
Corey
23:00
okay i'm gonna not respond to the i blew that part you know i'm just gonna move forward you
Corey
23:05
you know don't i
Corey
23:09
gotta tell you the we
Corey
23:11
we are living in a world where nobody seemed not nobody that's an exaggeration increasingly
Corey
23:17
increasingly people do not have the capacity to ever admit they were wrong right like it like they're just afraid of the ego death they've all become intellectual cowards this idea that i can never be like children really i can never be wrong i've got to create this excuse this fiction where i was always right if you get me on point a i'm going to weasel to point b if If you get me on point B, I'm going to weasel to point C. I will never change my fucking mind. And, you know, I think I like to imagine at least there was a time where that was really looked down upon. You know, serious people looked at that and said, Jesus Christ, get your act together here, right?
Corey
23:50
There are no people saying that anymore. There are no serious people, it seems, left. And my fear is this is going to happen. People's lives are going to get worse. And people are going to blame the Democrats. like it just feels like there's just not a willingness to accept cause and effect anymore it's more it's become way too sports team and and way too childish and i don't mean that in the name calling sense i mean that in the like like
Corey
24:16
like how weak do you have to be as a person intellectually weak to never be able to say i fucked
Corey
24:22
fucked that one up right maybe i better change my opinion to move forward but unfortunately i think there's a lot of weak people right now like really weak people
Carter
24:31
Yeah, I think that there is. I think that this is the real challenge for politics
Carter
24:37
politics in the future. You know, I mean, one of the things that you and I have marveled about, you know, I've been gone to DC together, we've, we've, we have, we've gone to conferences,
Corey
24:46
conferences, we roam the streets of America together.
Corey
24:52
We did. Yeah, that's good.
Carter
24:53
We've done these things and partly because
Carter
25:00
center of the democratic world for
Carter
25:02
for a very long time lived in Washington, D.C. Sure.
Corey
25:07
The United States more broadly. Absolutely. Right.
Carter
25:10
it possible that we're seeing a
Carter
25:14
shaping of the democratic world through
Carter
25:16
through the politics of the last 12 years that
Carter
25:22
makes it more and more difficult? I mean, maybe it's more than 12 years, but we
Carter
25:29
we grew up in the era of watching Ralph Klein take responsibility for his errors. We remember politicians who said, you know what, that was the wrong play and I'm sorry.
Carter
25:39
and I'll fix it.
Carter
25:40
Right. And now that that idea of saying, I'm sorry, I was wrong.
Carter
25:47
feel like you'd almost be laughed out of the room if you were talking about it in a political context.
Corey
25:52
Well, yeah. And because who's ever gonna give you any kind of negative consequence for being wrong, just move on to the next thing, just flick
Corey
26:00
flick that switch and go, right? That seems to be the the feeling here everybody is out there um you know trying to get their 453 grams of flesh from the other person and nobody cares what their side is doing and that's um that's
Corey
26:15
that's no way to have a democracy right like i i know this is trite and i know this is almost cliche to have this but it's a point worth saying like this only fucking works if we take it seriously right democracy does not work if we don't take it seriously yeah
Corey
26:27
and by the way that means holding your side to account If you're listening and you're sitting there as kind of a smug progressive, sometimes
Corey
26:34
sometimes your side fucks up. You just have to own it. And if you want to be a rational, independent thinking human, instead of a cult member, you've got to be willing to call them on it. And you've got to be willing to hold them to account on it. That is how democracy works. That's how democracy has worked. Otherwise, you don't have a democracy. You just have essentially like a quick tally. And then you have this kind of majoritarian rule. And that's just not what this is supposed to be.
Carter
27:00
Well, and yet, the
Carter
27:02
rule is sweeping across the land. You know, the world
Carter
27:11
world is a difficult place because Americans seem to have forgotten how to lead the democratic world.
Corey
27:19
Well, yeah, and you know what?
Corey
27:22
I am baffled at Canadians not getting ready for this. you
Corey
27:26
know 2016 on we probably should have been doing more to distance ourselves from this bloating carcass of a nation yeah
Corey
27:33
but it's not just us like what in a way like what the fuck has europe been doing you know it's all of us like how have we not adjusted or adapted or thought about these things before this moment like there's been a lot of wishful thinking that's occurred across the western world like oh it'll be okay we'll figure it out it won't be so bad it wasn't so bad last time and all donald trump really is doing right now is exactly what he said he would be doing which which is part of what concerns me because the list of things he said he's going to do also includes things like greenland and panama and using economic force to try to take over my country your country that's
Corey
28:12
that's canada by the way oh canada
Corey
28:14
canada yeah yeah jesus i'm
Carter
28:16
i've zoned a bit it zoned a bit i thought you know is it time to ask a question and i well
Corey
28:21
well and he's not gonna succeed like we're we're not there we're not interested is he not gonna succeed no canadians wouldn't touch that idea with a three meter pole like it's not gonna happen but he
Corey
28:34
he could do a lot of pain and do a lot of damage along the way here as he attempts to make this happen that's the risk the risk is his delusion takes him down this road where he hurts people yeah
Corey
28:44
mean that's a downer so
Carter
28:45
so hurts people is a great segue if
Carter
28:48
you're one of the people in ukraine yeah
Carter
28:52
you've just been hurt
Carter
28:53
you've been hurt substantially the
Carter
28:56
president of ukraine zelensky
Corey
29:02
yeah vladimir i think would be i don't know a lot
Carter
29:04
lot of me a
Corey
29:05
lot i'm not gonna pretend i know how to pronounce it perfectly you
Carter
29:08
you know i could probably go with your your
Carter
29:09
your pronunciation it would sound pretty solid comes
Carter
29:14
comes to the united states as he does as he does uh in his in his uniform going
Corey
29:19
going around thanking americans thanking
Corey
29:22
thank you he didn't say thank
Carter
29:23
thank you cory he didn't say thank you you
Corey
29:27
you must have seen some of these super cuts of every time he said thank you like just like a cavalcade of things he
Carter
29:33
he didn't say thank you cory he didn't say thank you
Corey
29:39
know what it was annoying when he did it it's also annoying when you did it i'm
Carter
29:42
i'm just throwing it out there that is annoying but this is this is the uh
Carter
29:51
know there's a grand tradition of ronald reagan yeah
Carter
29:54
and ronald reagan really stood i
Carter
29:57
think for two things okay
Corey
29:58
okay sex with nancy reagan and no
Carter
30:00
no three things then three
Carter
30:02
three things sex with nancy reagan okay
Carter
30:07
got that it was good it
Carter
30:10
took me a little bit it
Carter
30:11
it took me a while it's
Carter
30:16
destroying russia or the ussr yeah
Carter
30:19
that time you know watching
Carter
30:21
for the great communism
Corey
30:21
communism i think more broadly yeah yeah
Carter
30:23
watching out for uh that great dictatorship uh
Carter
30:26
uh believing Believing in democracy, furthering democracy. So
Carter
30:29
So far as going, you know, creating the Iran
Corey
30:40
Yeah, he was really not very keen on them, was he? Hated
Carter
30:43
Tariffs were the worst thing that could possibly happen. happen and now the same party as uh as ronald reagan is bringing in tariffs and is uh cozying up to uh vladimir
Carter
30:56
an uncomfortable fashion can
Corey
31:01
note for you here i
Corey
31:03
i don't i don't want you to feel like uh an ancient near-death sack of old but but the way you're talking about Reagan, you
Corey
31:14
I want you to imagine you're sitting there in 1985 with your flock of seagulls haircut.
Carter
31:19
First of all, never had a flock of seagulls haircut.
Corey
31:23
Yeah. Okay. Well, imagine that you're sitting there thinking about how cool you'd look with your flock of seagulls haircut if you had the guts to put one on your head. Yeah.
Corey
31:33
And somebody came up and started talking about the Democrats doing something that FDR would be so mad about. could you like could you imagine if fdr saw these modern day democrats now
Carter
31:45
now in fairness they were saying that about bill clinton yeah
Corey
31:50
yeah but nobody cared is my point like it just it's too much time you know the uh the reality is this is not the party of reagan it hasn't been for a long time and it's really really not the party of reagan under donald trump no
Carter
32:04
no i mean donald trump It's not the party of anybody when Donald Trump's the leader.
Corey
32:09
No, it's the party of Donald Trump, yeah. Donald
Carter
32:11
Donald Trump is unique in
Carter
32:13
in the way that he's constructed the Republican
Carter
32:18
Newt Gingrich, I guess we could argue, had some
Carter
32:21
some of the similar effects when he was Speaker of the House. But
Carter
32:27
think we're stretching to get to that place. This is a new era.
Carter
32:33
So what's going to happen in Ukraine, my friend? Do the Coalition of the Willing, does the Coalition of the Willing step up and step in and, you
Carter
32:43
protect and preserve Ukraine as we somewhat remember it?
Corey
32:49
Well, I hope so.
Corey
32:51
think that the war in Ukraine, there's
Corey
32:54
there's things that give me hope and there's things that give me pause, right? Things that give me hope, top of the list. Do you remember when Russia was supposed to just finish off that country in three days? Oh,
Carter
33:04
Oh, I'm very familiar. It was about three years ago. Did
Corey
33:07
Did not happen. And it was
Corey
33:09
Didn't happen. And that didn't happen, not because American tanks were there, not because American munitions were making their way into the country, but because the Ukrainian people said, absolutely fucking not. And they stood up and they put on a resistance and they pushed Russia back. Right? right so let's not forget let's never forget that the fundamental ingredient of their resistance is their own will to resist and i see no reason to believe that that's gone away in any meaningful sense right so that's that's number one the other thing that gives me kind of hope is that the nature of warfare has
Corey
33:42
has changed and i think ukraine has been a bit of a testing ground for that like it's just it's there's drones everywhere you know the the view of like the value of a tank versus is not as different some of this has changed i'm not diminishing for a minute the value of high mars and some of the systems that the americans put forward but it
Corey
33:59
it war is going to be different america has uh helped ukraine but i think innovation that ukraine itself has brought forward has also told us a little bit about what the path forward might look like and then the third ingredient that gives me hope is that there is a coalition of the willing there are people saying
Corey
34:16
well, we better fucking figure this out, right? And while Canada has been a bit of a defense laggard, and while no country really matches the United States in their defense spending or capacity,
Corey
34:27
Europe's pretty big. And Europe has an awful lot of a defense industry too, that can help fill some of these gaps as everybody tries to figure it out here. So that's on the pro side. On the
Corey
34:38
the con side, that's
Corey
34:41
that's a huge hole to fill. And the Ukrainians, even back in those first days, benefited from American intelligence and American support in ways that I think are a little hard to exactly quantify, but certainly were real. And that doesn't exist, it seems, anymore as of today. So it's a scarier world now. but there
Corey
35:03
there are some components that give me a little bit of hope here and i certainly think it's our job as
Corey
35:09
as as just civilization to try to help a nation that is being attacked like this and uh i
Corey
35:16
i hope we can figure it out so
Carter
35:19
so i'm taking some lessons from what you said there and i think
Carter
35:23
we need to you and i need to learn how to fly drones we
Corey
35:27
we need to buy some drones that can drop you know we need
Carter
35:31
need to buy ourselves some guns uh
Carter
35:34
yeah okay we have to resist
Carter
35:38
that's what i'm hearing what
Corey
35:39
what would a canadian resistance look like realistically you know i just i i think i
Carter
35:45
i think i would be when
Carter
35:48
when you're careful remember they're listening that's
Corey
35:50
that's great okay great point you know i'm not going to mention don't where the choke points are that we're going going to have to think no
Carter
35:56
no there's a couple of points that are going to be difficult we're going to have our work cut out for us in southern alberta we
Corey
36:02
we are this is my point like it's big open space but maybe we should try to avoid the war because 28 grams of prevention is worth 453 grams of cure for sure in this case so maybe let's talk about how we get away from that like headed off that would be my home thank
Carter
36:16
thank you very much cory i mean really
Carter
36:19
really your uh commitment to uh this show is just really showing so today
Carter
36:24
today the aid to ukraine stopped yeah
Corey
36:29
hmm tariffs start tomorrow