Transcript
Carter
0:14
Zain Velji and Annalise
Carter
0:28
Annalise Klingbeil bustling burb of Edmonton just back from Winnipeg uh and I was in Toronto so you know I've been all what were
Zain
0:36
were you doing in Winnipeg I I'm now interested in Winnipeg exclusively can't
Carter
0:40
can't tell you that we
Carter
0:42
that Edmonton is the Edmonton accelerants yeah yeah
Zain
0:45
the political institution known as the Edmonton accelerants yeah
Carter
0:48
yeah that was pretty good are
Zain
0:49
are you starting a political party in Winnipeg is that what's next you
Carter
0:52
you got to I mean every major city across Canada needs one of these these things at the very least so that's what i'm doing good
Zain
0:59
good should we uh like that you're wearing oh my god there he is there is the parliamentary secretary to the minister of podcast one cory
Corey
1:10
very nice that's a good intro zane thank
Corey
1:13
thank you for your service you
Zain
1:14
you know what thank you for your service and thank you for that wonderful house of commons headset uh which gives It automatically puts me to sleep. Every time I hear someone speak using
Zain
1:26
that equipment, it just makes me want to jab my
Corey
1:29
my eyes out and then go to
Corey
1:31
sleep. House of Commons headset. I'm sitting here in my standard issue House of Commons office. I think they have a lot of these because they send them to anybody who's like a
Corey
1:39
a committee guest, right? Like they'll send it, you know, so that you're using a proper microphone. Is
Zain
1:45
that a proper microphone? Because it doesn't sound very proper.
Zain
1:48
Do you not like it? I don't know. No. It sounds terrible.
Zain
1:50
Are you kidding me? It sounds horrible. It sounds terrible.
Zain
1:53
Okay. Compared to a podcast
Zain
1:55
podcast mic, that sounds atrocious. I
Corey
1:57
I don't have my podcast mic here. That's
Zain
1:58
That's true. No, I'm telling. So then why did you call it a proper microphone? Words matter. You're a member of parliament, Corey. Come on. Jesus. Wow. So
Corey
2:06
So how is it possible that, you know, I'm not trying to big time you guys, but that it's like you are the two hardest people to peg down to do anything with at the same time. Because we are big time.
Carter
2:19
I'm running 28 campaigns all at the same time. How are they doing? I've given him an out to call it two, but
Zain
2:26
but he's not accepting it. He wants a record of like seven
Corey
2:33
That's hurtful. Give yourself a letter grade. Give yourself a letter grade.
Carter
2:37
On how I'm doing right now or how the campaign is doing?
Corey
2:40
doing? From one to A.
Carter
2:41
From one to A, I probably would give myself a 4.6.
Carter
2:46
that's on the gpa scale of 4.4 you guys yeah you know what i miss you
Carter
2:51
this is good you
Corey
2:52
is the content people came for
Carter
2:54
for we haven't missed you you've been around you've been on tv you've been on the all the news shows you've been you know standing behind or sitting behind carney uh i do sit
Corey
3:04
sit like i am in the prime minister shot which is uh yeah good yeah your facial expressions matter yeah you're like
Zain
3:10
you're like the jim from the office situation i
Corey
3:12
i I got to really use it more. Like I've got to like look to the mic at certain points and make facial expressions at the right time.
Zain
3:19
hundred percent do. You got to know what camera placement is the whole time. All
Corey
3:22
All the time. Yeah.
Corey
3:23
It's actually pretty easy. There's pretty big screens in the house of comments.
Zain
3:26
Uh, Corey Hogan, there's so much to catch up on. Um, we have, um, not seen you in a while. I mean, we've seen you everywhere, but we've not seen you on the show in a while. Uh, this is of course for, for those that are uninitiated, this is a ministry of podcast. Uh, Stephen Carter is the minister of podcasts. Corey Hogan is the parliamentary secretary to the minister of podcasts. That's good. And of course, this show is brought to us by Flair Airlines, the new ministry of transportation. Yeah, no, it's true. I'm just laying it out there so people know what they're listening to. You have had your arms crossed for the last five minutes.
Carter
4:03
Yeah. Yeah, you sure? You seem like you're not wanting
Zain
4:08
It's 11.10 at night
Zain
4:09
night here. It's entirely
Zain
4:11
lighting. Your lighting is questionable as well. It looks, I said this, you look like you've eaten the corpse of Dracula, uh, with this lighting. It looks, it looks very spotlit.
Corey
4:24
Well, you know, I'm just trying to create a sense of drama for the minister of podcast here, who also has very dramatic lighting. I don't see you coming after him.
Carter
4:32
Yeah, I do. I have very dramatic. Yeah, he does. Yeah. It's, uh, it's using who's the problem. them.
Zain
4:38
Carter, we have a sitting MP, and I think we're talking to him about the right things personally, as I review the last five minutes. I think we're nailing it. We
Zain
4:47
We have no form or structure on this show, other than at some point to get Corey to uncross his arms and not be tense. Yeah, do you want to maybe do that so
Zain
4:58
so that you could be hospitable? Oh, fantastic. Carter, we ask Corey questions. We ask him how his summer was, I suspect. We ask him what's going on where shall we start i've got a few questions for one of mr hogan but of course i will let you as the minister get us started no
Carter
5:12
no i i i'm really interested primarily in what it's been like going back you know the first time going into the house i think has been is is kind of exciting you know you're you're a rookie you're getting sworn in you're flying to ottawa it's all tickety-boo and exciting uh now you've got an apartment now you're you know you You live in Ottawa, for all intents and purposes, during the session. What's it been like for you to find yourself in this new situation where you're really, for the first time, more than a kilometer and a half away from me and Zane?
Corey
5:48
is actually a great point. It's true. It is, actually. I feel that absence every day, too. I want you guys to know. I think
Corey
5:56
I know. It's still early days, right? What you said is totally true. like the feel of coming back was is not the same as the first time that i went there but
Corey
6:05
but we're still setting everything up like both in a kind of a literal household sense but also just in terms of just figuring out our lives like it's a really funny job because every day you're doing something for the first time but it also feels like you
Corey
6:20
you log so many miles so quickly you're also doing something for what feels like the millionth time every day too right like uh god another question here we go even though
Zain
6:30
though like honestly it's only been i don't know 25
Corey
6:33
25 of them like it's it's not like a lot of question periods yet and uh just give you a sense like i flew in sunday night monday morning landed at like 1 a.m went
Corey
6:44
went to an apartment i've never been to before i had one of my staff go with their phone and kind of look around and give me video of it there he also accepted a giant ikea delivery so i'm i'm in like stonehenge ikea like there's just boxes everywhere
Corey
7:00
i my bed is not like my bed is still in one of those shrink-wrapped tubes so that i have to like open the bed and find the sheets i put that on i sleep on the floor on the mattress and and i still haven't managed to assemble anything besides that because when you're in parliament like it's 7 a.m to 10 p.m every night sometimes
Corey
7:16
sometimes later if you're going to do uh you know you
Corey
7:19
you know know a c-tier podcast from uh from calgary alberta but uh yeah
Corey
7:24
yeah man it's uh it's a weird time it's a really weird time i've
Zain
7:29
i've i've got a question for you okay so maybe we'll go back and forth carter um it's a new novel oh i like this this is fun you ask one and then i ask one two hosts and then we keep it fresh this is good we keep it fresh uh so the three of us cory have done media training training for several executives, organizations.
Zain
7:51
We've media trained a lot of people. You have recently been in media. I am curious if any of the media training you have given has applied to you, or if you've caught yourself. And is the training you've provided in retrospect been sufficient? Has it been interesting? Have you internalized it? How are you thinking of media? I mean, we three of us did a ton of media when we were pundits but this is different you're like you're doing accountability interviews right like yeah often um give
Zain
8:21
give me that sense when when like you're you're in the big leagues that way and what your training and pedigree has kind of like led you to or any insights you have yeah
Corey
8:30
yeah well i would say first and foremost like it is a great foundation like you you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing and of course we've been doing it for so long and even in the pundit version like you're
Corey
8:41
you're not going to get swayed by some of the the conventional tricks, you know, these things that reporters do where
Corey
8:48
where they take you through a bit of a roller coaster, you know, they're your best bud. Oh man, that answer really dissatisfied them though. Don't you want your best bud back? Like give a better answer. Tell us more information. You know, I'm
Corey
8:58
I'm never going to fall for any
Zain
8:59
Without naming names, have you seen that roller coaster play out in recent media? Of course.
Corey
9:04
you know, and one of the things is it happens not just on camera, like beforehand, everyone's like, oh, hey, how are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. And then on camera, they start a little warm and they're like what the why
Corey
9:14
why you know you create this sense almost that these answers are unsatisfactory and that's like a
Corey
9:19
a regular tactic of media it's not a not a bad thing and it probably serves them very well but you know so some of that fundamental stuff you just have a good understanding of but there's also key
Corey
9:29
key messaging bridging back to your key message making sure you don't get too lost into the weeds of course nobody does it perfect all of the time and sometimes you do find yourself in the weeds but knowing
Corey
9:39
knowing how to pull yourself out of it know how how to get your point across that's all useful stuff and i think that in
Corey
9:45
in general if you're going to be working with the media you should have a pretty good sense of how that all works
Carter
9:50
you got to do the uh the major projects thing that was your big media last week right where you got to stand in front of all the cameras and uh and do the major projects and political
Carter
10:00
yeah and uh you got to be the spinner right
Corey
10:05
you know it's it's not so much even oh
Corey
10:08
oh it's an an interesting one right like so it is my job like i'm parliamentary secretary for energy natural resources and uh there were a couple of programs i i went on for sure and a couple of different interviews i had and
Corey
10:20
and yeah i mean when you're a pundit like we all were it's more like give us your analysis well maybe i agree with that maybe i don't hmm interesting let's move on whereas when it's you know the government it designs point about accountability it becomes much more like Like, but is that, like, can I trust that? Like, tell me more. Like, tell me why that's not BS, you know? And so you end up in a more charged environment. I wouldn't call it, like, confrontational, but certainly, like, it's not loose and easy. It's not like, ah,
Corey
10:49
ah, whatever you say, who cares? You're just talking for yourself. Like, you are carrying the weight of, like, a government initiative, like, you know, worth, you
Corey
10:56
you know, billions of dollars, like $60 billion of development
Corey
10:59
for the country, right? You just don't want to kind of screw it up. And so
Corey
11:03
so there is a totally different feeling. And of course, one of the things that I think is a risk that comes from having done too much media in different contexts, and by the way, I
Corey
11:12
I think you can both attest, we saw this a lot when reporters went to the other side, like when they became
Corey
11:17
became PR people, you
Corey
11:18
you can be too comfortable and you can be too loose and you
Corey
11:21
just go off script a little too easily. So you have to keep that in mind and you have to check yourself as you're going to because it's not one
Corey
11:28
one person's riffing. It's not the column you're writing tomorrow. It is, you know, a controlled conversation about the government's message because the government's message is important and it's really easy to get knocked off message. So you
Corey
11:41
you got a bit more of a weight on your shoulders, I think, when you're doing media like this. Was there
Zain
11:45
there any instinct that you had to be like, like, enter into pundit mode a bit or be like, play things off as you know, like use humor or anything like that, like things that you would do on our pod, right? When you were like, the part of the trip to be like, this could be helpful here. Or like, are you sticking to the ground rules? Because I find that really interesting, right? Like, you've got this other persona that you've had on the podcast for years, right? Like, and like, that's looser, more like, and it's because it's the three of us, I would imagine. rarely crossed
Corey
12:13
crossed his arms for interviews you know
Zain
12:14
know yeah rarely i would say yeah i think this suit count is uh suit count number five across thousands of episodes uh so like did you and do you think about it like bringing any of those charms and i'm not saying you're not being authentic that's not the code behind what i'm trying to say but like do you feel like uh being more authentic is is part of uh what you want to do yeah
Corey
12:37
yeah i mean i think it's funny because you're sort of like like almost like asking, knowing that me saying, oh, I'm doing this could feel like a tactic and like feels like you're trying to do me stuff. I'll tell you this, like one of the things that I tried to do
Corey
12:49
when I got elected was I thought like, you know, like,
Corey
12:53
and in fact, my wife was like, she's like, just don't become like another like absolute robot. Fucking loser. Well, I don't think to use those words, but I did.
Zain
13:02
loser. Yeah, that's just the right. Just another lame-ass personality-less loser. Yes. I
Corey
13:08
I mean, you're going to have to be thoughtful about it. Your comments can move markets. You can really wreck big things, not just for yourself, but for the country in a job like this. So you can't be flip.
Corey
13:23
But I do think that sometimes in media, in politics, people are controlled to the point of not saying anything. And I didn't want to be that guy. So like, I was certainly hoping I could still talk
Corey
13:36
talk a little bit, like go through it, not just stay at like the platitude, but actually go into the next line underneath it. And I try to do that.
Corey
13:43
But there's a limit to it. Like, seriously, there's a limit. Like, there's only so much you can do before you're like, now
Corey
13:49
maybe this is not a wise idea, right? Right, so it's like you don't get to go into the five-minute monologue like you do on The Strategist, but maybe you could do a minute and a half where you're like, oh, and like, hey, we've got this other thing to consider, and hey, have you thought about that? But, you
Corey
14:06
tricky. You really don't want to blow it up. I don't know. What are your guys' thoughts? You've seen Night Media.
Zain
14:12
I mean, you read his report. I honestly genuinely don't ask as a criticism. I ask almost thinking of like armchair quarterback. back if i got elected tomorrow what would i be in the sense of like public persona you know what i mean like would i just would i just be like oh i'm just gonna drop an f-bomb no one's gonna like because that's my dog
Zain
14:29
dog or like part
Zain
14:31
part of me likes to think i would but
Zain
14:33
but i'm not faced with the reality you are which is caucus responsibility like i get it right like i intellectually i get it but i guess what's the balance in this world where people want more authenticity people want more real people and And I'm not saying you'd be Beto O'Rourke and drop F-bombs. That's not what I'm suggesting at all. But I'm just kind of curious, like, have you found the balance? Or are you comfortable thus far with, like, this tone? I'm not asking you to introspect. It's not a criticism. Yeah,
Corey
14:58
Yeah, like, I'm not uncomfortable. It's interesting. Like, but to your point, I did drop an F-bomb earlier in this episode. And I thought, I probably shouldn't have done that. And, you know, I'm not sure.
Corey
15:09
Yeah, I'm not sure that swearing means as much to me, right? Maybe it does you and Beto O'Rourke. But I think it is one of those things where you start to wonder, okay, well, what is like additive being yourself? And what is diminishing being yourself? Like, what are the parts that are actually going to help this conversation along? Because like, look, I didn't come here to be funny on television. I came here to get stuff done. I think that the country is like at an important crossroads. and so okay so
Zain
15:37
so that's where we're different okay i see yeah yeah
Corey
15:41
that's why you ran instead of me that makes sense you know what's really like listen this is another context about the three of us i was talking to somebody about like what's a good show right yeah like of the strategists and you know i i was saying to them for steven it's no question it's was the show entertaining like that's that's like his bar like he's never happier than when the show is entertaining for zane it's is this different than what everybody else is doing like is this This is Zaggy, right? And for me, it was like, was it informative? And that was always kind of the difference between the three of us when we were approaching a show. And when a show was like all three of those, then like we were all happy. But generally speaking, most shows can't be all three of those, right?
Corey
16:18
But, you know, I think that is a bit of the difference between us and maybe why I sort of ended up, you know, doing this at least first. I don't know. I could still see you running some day, Zane. But like- What
Carter
16:27
What about me? I'm right here.
Carter
16:30
I'm sitting right here. Mike Carter,
Zain
16:32
one thing I'll let you have the mic, Carter. One thing I don't like is that Corey's talking about the podcast, the three of us, as if it was something in the past and not something that's going to happen again once he loses the next election. I don't like that. I don't like that about Corey. You live in my writing. I know, and I will vote, and that's all, but I will vote for
Zain
16:54
Well, I appreciate that. Well, it depends, actually. Well, we'll see. We'll
Corey
16:57
We'll see what happens. We'll
Corey
16:59
But no, I mean, like, look, it's your question. And it's like, these
Corey
17:04
I came to do something, right? And I don't want to get in my own way while trying to do those things. So, like, you try to think about that too.
Carter
17:11
Yeah, it's just as difficult to imagine a scenario where you have to change your personality, you know, kind of dramatically to fit into a new role. Because it's not just a nine to five job, right? Right. Like it is all day, every day you're on the stage, whether you're on the stage on on main main media or you're you're you're jumping into a caucus meeting or you're jumping into meeting with the prime minister's office, wherever you are, you are on stage, even if it's meeting with a constituent. Right. Whereas, you know, before and like we
Carter
17:43
have we have time off. Right. We don't have to be the member of parliament for Calgary Confederation all the time. How's that wearing on you? And is it wearing on the family unit as well? Like, has it changed the relationship with the gen pop that we that we get to interact with? You know, I know a lot of people come up to me and say, really glad Corey's a member of parliament and off the podcast. But is, you
Carter
18:10
you know, is that is that something that you get all the time, too?
Corey
18:14
Yeah. So I did a video about this just the other day.
Corey
18:17
It is weird. Like on a Saturday morning before April of this year, like, you know, Laurie would say something like, oh, we need breakfast. And I'd be like, okay, I'll go to the store. And I'd put
Corey
18:28
put on a ball cap and I'd put on a sweater or something. I'd be wearing like just clothes that look like absolute garbage. And I'd walk out and I'd go to the store. You don't get to do that anymore. Right? You got to be like, okay, well, if I'm going out, I got to shave, I got to shower, I got to do my hair, you know, I got to do, I've got to hit that level of like weekend professional where it's like, no, I don't need to wear like a suit, obviously, but I should probably wear a collared shirt or like, you know, something. And I know it sounds dumb, but you're also pretty mindful a lot of the time that you are, you're their representative. And there's a lot of people are like, you're not representing me well, if you're not like wearing something nicer, right? right? Like, is this how
Zain
19:05
how I want to be? Isn't that such an old school way of, or sure, maybe
Corey
19:08
maybe it is. But like, it's
Corey
19:09
it's a big, it's a big right. And there's like 130,000 people who live in it. And, and some of them are older, some of them are more traditional, you know, and some of them are happy to have you supporting it. And, and to my point about like, you don't want to get in your own way. Like, is it the biggest deal? Like, I agree. I don't think it has any effect on whether I'm a good representative or not, whether I
Corey
19:28
baseball cap to the grocery store, but you do Do think to yourself, like, why would I get in my own way if this matters to them and
Corey
19:36
me just... It doesn't matter a shit ton to you. It doesn't matter to me at all. And what, am I going to stand on, like, some principle that I want the right to be grubby on a Saturday morning? Like, what's that mean? So there is a little bit of that. And so it does mean that you
Corey
19:50
you think about that a little bit more. And I don't know, like, so far for the family stuff, it hasn't had, like, a huge effect. I mean, I think the kids are still in that fairly
Corey
19:59
fairly malleable age where they're like, oh, okay, this is the thing we're doing now. Oh, okay, you know.
Corey
20:05
And while it certainly had an effect on everything, I don't think it's, they're not being like, oh, my God, it's the worst every time we go out, you know. I think they're still thinking it's pretty fun. Check in with me on that one in six months. Yeah,
Carter
20:16
Yeah, I will. I will for sure. It's something that's interesting because it is a, you know, it is two things, being away all the time. Yeah, well, that's tough. being
Carter
20:26
being on all the time both of those uh you know make it more challenging to uh be yourself in in your normal situation i
Carter
20:35
i i remember being chief of staff and having a hell of a time trying to figure out how to uh to
Carter
20:42
be yourself and represent the government at the same time uh
Carter
20:46
uh it was kind of a a tricky little line uh and not one i managed well so i think that you've made more more good good choices uh but then you know i i trailblazed
Zain
20:58
has cory been a has cory been an mp longer than you've been a chief of staff i just want to do the cumulatively
Zain
21:08
do you think he's gonna laugh you know over
Zain
21:09
under one of cory's gonna be an mp longer than you were chief of staff i
Carter
21:13
i think it's gonna be longer i think it's
Zain
21:15
it's gonna be longer
Carter
21:18
Not a lot, but
Zain
21:20
I think it isn't. I think he's going to take my conversation of authenticity to heart. And there may be a national interview that Corey gives that doesn't go so well.
Zain
21:32
Yeah, I mean, actually, it's
Zain
21:34
funny. The other thing about interviews is
Zain
21:35
is you think about that a lot,
Zain
21:36
especially in the early days.
Corey
21:37
I've had a few under my belt now. And it's like, I could probably have one that's not ideal. And it wouldn't be the end of the world. They'd be like, oh, off day. But what's your first one? right like oh go do this for us and you're like i'd
Corey
21:50
i'd like not to screw
Zain
21:51
screw this up isn't that interesting though like you you are carrying the load of spokesperson on some of these files where you are the parliamentary secretary not not the minister so to speak there is a there there where it's like you're you're taking one for the i guess in your case the triad that is the the natural resource like you the two you one of the two parliaments and the minister but also like by extension the entire government yeah
Corey
22:11
yeah well especially when the file is like so real to it But like Zane, when you were talking to, or Carter, I guess, when you're saying like, it's tough, like to know how to be yourself in it. I
Corey
22:20
think a lot about like, I had a boss, she was the clerk in Alberta, Marsha Nelson. And I remember, and I was like, new DM there. And she said something to me, which I think is advice that a lot of people get, but it was the first time I had really heard it. And she said, Hey, you got to know something like, these
Corey
22:35
these are lonely jobs, right? Like, you, everybody treats you a little bit differently. You know, it's just a bit of a different feeling. there's a bit of a like hierarchy you can't go like hanging out with people the same way you used to do it and and
Corey
22:48
and there's a there's a huge truth to that right people treat you very differently uh when you have a job like i like i'm not a different person you know i'm the same kid who was on
Corey
22:57
on this podcast four months ago but it it does like people do treat you differently so as much as it's like how do i stay being myself the other reality is carter like people don't treat me the same as they used to thank
Carter
23:10
thank god you got zane and i then we
Zain
23:13
let's be clear about that have you noticed let's make this a bit meta and self-involved which uh is the the other subtitle of this podcast yeah have
Zain
23:22
have you noticed us treating
Zain
23:26
actually no no like i'm curious if the answer is yes as well because i think that is fascinating because i have been and i'm curious if you've noticed have
Corey
23:33
have Have you? I don't think I've noticed this. Listen, now I'm feeling like I'm not a very observant friend. But
Zain
23:41
no, no, no. I'm curious if you've noticed, and this is only in one way, and it's very meaningful. But
Corey
23:48
Okay, well, I'm looking forward to hearing this. But I think you notice it a lot less with the people that you've known for longer, and I've known both of you for a really long time. You're both very good friends of mine, and I think you
Corey
24:01
you really hang on to those people at moments it's like that right like and and i think it's great that i yeah i've got lots of good friends but like ah
Corey
24:09
ah it's more like that you know not even the next hero but the tier after that where all of a sudden they're like calling you mp hogan or yes mike i
Corey
24:19
i can't tell you like when i got elected my phone no slight to anyone listening who was one of these many hundreds of people who did it but my phone blew up with people who all i hadn't talked to in years who were like oh let's grab have coffee right holy
Zain
24:30
holy shit yeah awesome right
Zain
24:32
and not all lobbyists not all looking for something
Zain
24:34
something not all lobbyists
Corey
24:35
lobbyists not all looking
Corey
24:37
love you all and i will try to get to all of you for coffees at some point in the near future but like there isn't like you're like i
Corey
24:44
i mean i like haven't really heard from you in five years right and like i'm glad that i'm back on your radar like life is fun like that like it all of a sudden like people pull back into your life but like you
Corey
24:53
you do you can't help but wonder at those moments like do they want something right
Zain
24:58
right it's just transactional yeah
Corey
24:59
yeah well you know and that's or like even banking for future use and so that does kind of you
Corey
25:06
you know you think about that and and that's not great that you think about that and i should think about the fact that i think about that to go even more meta than you're talking about zane but it is definitely it's hard not to notice the sheer volume of engagements you have that you you just you
Corey
25:21
you hadn't had in a long time the
Zain
25:23
the way i've been treating you differently is i've been deliberately reaching out less because i think you are so much busier you have explicitly reached out to me more cold called me texted me than i've actually sent to you because i'm like well fuck this guy is just like why would he want to shoot the shit about this you know what i mean like and in some ways i wonder and i heard this from someone else is that like it's a lonely job because a people treat you differently but often the people that that are your closest friends like they just sometimes stop reaching out because they're like well this person like i'm gonna park them on the side and i'm not i'm not naming the person but very close to me you can kind of put the pieces together potentially also had a version of this where the friends around them were like oh we're not reaching out because we're sorry like we we thought we were like on the outs like not because we don't like it because yeah you got big shit to do now like you know i mean that
Zain
26:15
i kind of that's
Corey
26:15
a hundred percent true zane like you say it and i hadn't really thought it's so true like you hear from your friends less and you hear from your Your acquaintance is more when
Zain
26:23
relationship. I imagine. Yeah. That's wild.
Zain
26:27
I'm going to start calling him every
Zain
26:30
but it's true. Corey has called me more randomly just to chat about stuff.
Corey
26:34
stuff. I think that's actually true of you too, Carter. Oh, absolutely. I think I call you more than you call me. And
Carter
26:38
And it's for the same reason.
Carter
26:39
I'm always like when I'm thinking about, oh, I got to call Corey. Right. I have to think, ah, where is he? What's he doing right now? Yeah.
Carter
26:48
And what's the relative priority of this? and then you know
Carter
26:52
know i'm also very not fussed when it doesn't go through right
Carter
26:56
right when we're unable to connect but i'll tell you i also answer your phone calls a lot more than i used to you
Zain
27:04
you i i i i don't oh i know that
Corey
27:06
that for it's i well i'm still don't because zane you you you are who you are your core you're like you don't want to change this is true i appreciate that i fucking bent
Carter
27:15
bent over for him so you know that's the wrong phrasing yeah i shouldn't say yeah i said that incorrectly uh
Carter
27:22
uh but i i never change car never
Carter
27:24
never change no this is see this is the reality we you know when he calls i i could be in a meeting and for the most part unless it's like a really important i have to go oh excuse me this
Carter
27:36
this is a parliamentary secretary they say what the hell is a parliamentary secretary he
Zain
27:40
he still has that animation of himself as his avatar i do yeah well that doesn't that doesn't seem serious at all i should probably change that
Corey
27:46
i'm not gonna reveal
Corey
27:50
is what your phone number
Corey
27:51
before you post this bloody look
Zain
27:53
i'm going right here your phone
Corey
27:55
not exposed we're good trust me i beg you i beg we're
Zain
27:58
we're we're not we're not exposing the phone number uh
Corey
28:01
uh we're just gonna make the episode title the phone number oh
Zain
28:04
oh yeah but no one will figure it out unless they listen to the 30 minute mark but
Zain
28:07
but you know on that front right it's it's interesting because you you the other aspect of it just to kind of close the loop on this conversation is i also don't want to reach out to you in in the sake that you're like Like, oh, shit, he needs something from me or wants something from me. And then you prioritize that. Like, it's just weird. Like, it's not true. Like, we're friends, but I also don't want you to be like, fuck, Zayn needs something from me, so maybe I should. It's like, there's a thing, right? Like, I don't want you to feel like, I kind of feel like, oh, I'm jumping the line in some way, even though I don't know anything or, you know, it's like one of those things. And it's also like, I actually
Corey
28:36
to be friends with the MP.
Zain
28:37
Like, I was talking to someone about this the other day, right? Is that like, I've got two close friends who are now members of parliament. I actually don't know how to be friends with you. like what's appropriate what's not because of like the like I'm adjacent to the space not in the space it's one of those like like Anchorman I don't know what to do with my hand sort of thing and I made it about myself all of a sudden Corey I
Zain
28:59
do have Carter do you have anything I've actually I want to like switch gears like dramatically and talk to Corey about
Corey
29:04
about something he feels comfortable with like quite like I don't even know how I would describe this at this point introspective like just kind of like yeah no he's gonna not sleep tonight not sleep
Zain
29:13
sleep I have a serious thing to talk to cory about like a pretty serious thing because i had i despite me just saying i didn't reach out to him i did send him a text the other day about something that i thought was that i was really proud of him about um so can we go there carter we're
Carter
29:27
we're proud of him cory
Zain
29:29
cory cory you you did not stand for the conservative statement on the charlie kirk thing and and i and i know i'm like like simplifying the whole thing.
Zain
29:41
Talk to me about what that situation was, how you folks experienced that from the back benches. And just to bring everyone into the loop, if you've been under a rock, right, Charlie Kirk is assassinated. We have this moment that in the American right, that this is being, let's just be clear, used to cancel other folks, to try to like push people on certain narratives to restrict free speech. And I'd say a lot of his past transgressions words are kind of being sanded down and he's been memorialized across sports stadiums and sports leagues and television programs and there was a statement uh to that broader effect in in our house of commons and maybe i'll kind of let you carry the story from there uh take the story on from there cory and talk to me about how you process that and and what that felt like and what that moment was like and why you didn't stand and clap for it yeah
Corey
30:31
yeah so look there was a statement that was done and we do statements every day in the house of commons right like there is like a slew of one minute statements that have occurred uh and they can be on anything from the opposition complaining about something that we've done to um you
Corey
30:48
you know it is uh carafest and let me tell you about what it's meant it means to my community to you know i did one for the university of calgary and the graduates going across uh in the spring to you
Corey
30:59
you name it and often there's also memorials for people who you know meant something in the community that you know they want to make sure that they're recognizing in the house of comics because then you're you're on like the record forever you're
Zain
31:09
you're on the record yeah there's
Corey
31:10
there's a video you can provide loved ones and all of this stuff right and
Corey
31:14
and i guess i really want to start i
Corey
31:16
i appreciate that you're proud of me for it but i like i i i don't even i
Corey
31:21
i let me just get it all out and then we can chat about it okay yeah
Zain
31:23
yeah yeah like i'm giving you my interpreter you give me yours there was a statement uh that was done uh
Corey
31:28
uh about political violence and largely it wasn't even about charlie kirk until the end when it was like you know charlie kirk his his wife and his kids and you know we feel for y'all and you know it became a little bit more about charlie kirk just in the turn as much about his family as him in my opinion but like and
Corey
31:50
and then uh there was a standing ovation that occurred it started on the conservative side and then it like kind of flowed to the liberals it's very common by the way there's lots of standing ovations and they tend to like start where the people who know them most like oh look at them they lost somebody or like somebody in their community up and then it flows across and it's not really i say this because i don't want you to think it was like unusual
Corey
32:11
unusual for it to be contagious in
Corey
32:13
in that sense right we're pretty free with standing ovations for people who've died in the house of commons right i
Corey
32:21
was not very comfortable with the way it kind of flipped at the end and became about charlie kirk and while i certainly appreciated the message about political violence right which is i think something that we we all should really think about i
Corey
32:33
i i wasn't prepared to do something that could be interpreted as being a standing ovation for charlie kirk a man who i think has
Corey
32:40
has caused a lot of harm and hurt you
Corey
32:42
you know uh in his his life as well and and well i think it is outrageous that he was shot uh it was just not you
Corey
32:51
it's just not something i was willing to do i wasn't the only one like in my immediate orbit i know of a couple of other mps who didn't but
Corey
32:57
but i just i say this for two reasons one is like i
Corey
33:01
i don't think that that was that special that i did it um but i also don't think it was bad that the other people did it like because i know why they did it and part of it is that kind of contagion of oh somebody died part of it is the uh okay it was about political violence but
Corey
33:18
but expanding on the second Second part,
Corey
33:21
I think what he's, you know, this is like a really like on the couch Oprah style almost episode you're creating for us here. But like, I think one of the things that is really not easy for politicians to talk about is
Corey
33:38
we're public figures. And Charlie Kirk is a public figure who was assassinated in front of his family. Right? Insane. Like,
Corey
33:46
insane. And there is not a person in that House of Commons who didn't sit there and say, holy
Corey
33:51
holy shit, like, that could have been me. That could have been my family, right? It's not because we think that we're Charlie Kirk. God, most of us perish thought, right? But it's just, this is where it seems to be going to. And there is, like, there is a feeling that feels selfish, but it's real, where we are starting to get really worried. like there are conversations that happen behind closed doors about should
Corey
34:16
should we do something about this and then like there's often like the well if we do it'll look like we're creating rules just to protect ourselves from the public and so maybe we should you know like these are conversations what do you
Zain
34:25
you mean like what like conversations around like i'm
Corey
34:27
i'm not even gonna get into it i'm not gonna get into it i'm
Corey
34:29
i'm just gonna say let
Corey
34:31
us fill in the blanks
Zain
34:31
blanks got it yeah
Corey
34:32
yeah please uh but like
Corey
34:35
we worry we worry because we have families we worry because we don't want to die and we worry because the world seems really crazy so like there is an emotional component to it that i
Corey
34:45
i it's easy to intellectualize from a distance and say like ah he's a bad guy why did why did people stand for him or like you know he said bad things if you don't want to call him a bad guy i don't maybe i won't even go but like you
Corey
34:57
you know people feel things and and it's hard it's
Corey
35:00
it's hard to begrudge people for in that moment having been like jet
Corey
35:05
jet you know like this is true this is crazy like and like you know it walked through the statement from like you know we settled we should be settling our differences more civilly his family was there you know rest in peace charlie you know that's sort of where it took a turn and see it started to feel more like a state but like it
Corey
35:23
it was like it was not about char i don't think it was about charlie kirk for anyone in the house i guess is what i'm going to say like okay
Corey
35:30
charlie kirk was the hook on which this sentiment was hung i
Zain
35:34
i i appreciate the full side of that carter i'm I wanted to let you jump in here.
Zain
35:38
I do want to talk a lot more about the political violence thing, a bit, if Corey's open to it. But, Carter? It's
Carter
35:44
It's not new. I mean, the threat of political violence has certainly been around for quite some time. And, you know, when Alison Redford was the premier and I was following around close to her, you know, you were worried. You were worried about being too close to the principal. You knew about the threats. threats um even joe t gondek you know the face threats every every day of of her uh mayoralty um the uh the proper way to deal with politics is to you know elect to to outspeak to to to combat in the in the world of rhetoric not in the world of of violence and yet
Carter
36:29
see other you know you see charlie kirk advocating for violence against others right so you know it's okay to spill some blood it was one of his his kind of catchphrases not his phrases but his his intentions and i i
Carter
36:47
i'm for that type of discussion because it is real for those of us in the game uh
Carter
36:54
uh there is a threat of violence uh all the time and uh it doesn't need to be elected you don't
Carter
37:02
don't need to be elected you can just be around them i often worry for the staffs um because just being around them is is sometimes uh enough
Carter
37:11
enough that you're going to get impacted if you kind of go back and rewind you know there were families that were impacted i can't remember the exact details the the democrats that were uh essentially assassinated as well uh that didn't get to see they were
Corey
37:26
wasn't essentially like they were um
Carter
37:28
um yeah you know didn't Didn't get the same attention as didn't didn't get the same attention as as Charlie Kirk. And that's devastating because ultimately every act of political violence should be treated the same.
Zain
37:42
think your point, Carter, is fascinating around like the the orbit around the politician. Like Kirk was like a media person, like an American equivalent to and a significant like degrees are different. But like a gig like ours. Oh, yeah. Right. Like it was like very much media. Media, right? Very much like loud mouthy, very much like, you know, get his name brand out there. And yes, there's differences in infrastructure and reach and all those things. I'm not trying to compare those two, right? So anyone wants to come after us on that's not what I'm saying. It was like a, it was part of the political class in the broadest sense, not the narrowest. Exactly. Well,
Corey
38:14
Well, and that's why I said political actor and not politician. Right. Like, I think this
Corey
38:19
this is like democracies aren't
Corey
38:22
aren't supposed to settle differences this way. And, um, tell
Zain
38:28
me this, Hogan, like you have, and I'm going to use this term just as a shorthand, but there's a lot of shotgun MPs. They, they, they became MPs because the Carney wave was happening. Nominations happened quickly. It was like a roller coaster high. I'm not, I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. buddy uh that
Carter
38:42
that guy yeah that guy right there that guy that
Zain
38:45
that guy with the atrocious house of commons microphone um buyer's
Zain
38:52
have you not for you yeah unless you want to talk about it but have you heard of buyer's remorse have you heard of buyer's remorse amongst people like essentially like a them or their families being like holy fuck i didn't sign up for this shit not on the all the in the where the direction of the government's going etc we can get into all that but i mean more so on this political violence question being like oh fuck like this really step shit into focus this is not what i signed up for well
Corey
39:14
well i haven't heard that on the political violence front i but again like it is something that we we do talk about in the halls right um i have certainly heard people talk about the pressures that it's created on their families and their lives you know more generally and and
Corey
39:30
and how um maybe
Corey
39:31
maybe maybe even some comments about like ah this isn't quite what i thought it was going to be right
Corey
39:37
because of the places
Corey
39:38
places i've worked and the background I've got, it's kind of exactly what I thought it would be in most ways, right? But some
Corey
39:45
some people, clearly it's not. But I don't think there's like a lot of people being like, well, I don't know why I did this. But I do think there
Corey
39:54
there are a lot of people who are having to figure out what the job is and you can tell that not all of, and I'm talking on both sides. I'm not calling out like liberals or
Corey
40:03
the Carney wave, right? You can tell in the new class, those of us who are sometimes like, Like, is
Corey
40:09
is this my favorite thing? No, I don't think it is. Like, for me, like, I keep going on about question period. I hate question period, right? I find it... We've
Zain
40:15
We've heard. Please underline
Corey
40:17
underline it here. But
Corey
40:18
heard. Yeah, I find it painful to sit through.
Zain
40:20
through. Have you had to do anything on QP interest yet?
Zain
40:23
No, actually, interestingly enough,
Corey
40:24
not. Like, we're sitting here at 11.45 p.m.
Corey
40:33
QP tomorrow if there's any questions on energy or natural resources.
Corey
40:37
maybe by the time somebody's
Corey
40:38
this, I will be. But, yeah, as
Corey
40:40
as it stands, not in QP. Oh, that's not true. I actually asked a question in QP, a
Corey
40:46
a friendly, before I was parliamentary secretary. Will the
Zain
40:49
the minister explain why he's so good at doing what he is?
Zain
40:54
thank you, member. As a minister of transport, co-sponsored by Flair Airlines, I, yes. Corey, I'll
Zain
41:02
I'll let you get into if there's any other things you want to talk about. But Corey, you brought up something that I find interesting.
Zain
41:09
You said both sides.
Zain
41:11
How's your relationship with, how's your relationship been with non-caucus members, MPs of your freshman class, MPs of other political stripes? How, we often hear that that is eroded, like the decorum of that. It's like, has it though on the back end? Like, are there still friendships? Is there, is it, is there, to stick to your own teams? Explain to me how your experience has been. yeah
Corey
41:34
yeah first of all i'll say like one of the things about like the canadian system is when i say both i literally mean the physical geography of the house like i know there's more than two parties like the blocker they're the ndp or they're the greener there but you know both sides of the chamber um you
Corey
41:50
you know it's interesting like i'll say this like i think elizabeth may is a delight she's like one of my favorite people in the house on a personal level elizabeth
Carter
41:57
elizabeth may yeah i mean the the
Zain
42:01
soon to be once again re yeah man
Zain
42:03
i'll get into it
Corey
42:05
it but like yeah i
Corey
42:06
i think she is a delight right on a personal level there are mps that i just really really like uh on the other side that i have very warm relationships with on the other side there's a lot of block mps that i find like very funny and very interesting uh there's a lot of conservative mps that i i find to be pretty stand-up folks. It's so funny. Especially when it comes to the conservatives, I almost feel by me saying I like them, I would be doing them a disservice in this environment that we live in right now.
Corey
42:38
So maybe I shouldn't name names.
Zain
42:40
Maybe you should name one name. Maybe I should. Name three names.
Corey
42:44
names. Because I see them
Zain
42:45
them all the time.
Corey
42:46
time. Like Greg McLean. We share the Bow River and we're at events together. That's a lame name. I mean, Greg's not lame. I mean, Greg's kind of lame. That's why I said it. that's why I said it though like because like
Corey
42:57
like look I think you know the reality is there will be time pretty much a liberal you
Zain
43:02
should pretty much caucus with you guys do you know what it's funny based on what Pierre's going to do between now and January Greg McLean should just cross the floor exactly
Zain
43:11
you could just laugh but Carter and I could talk yeah
Carter
43:13
yeah we I think you're actually
Corey
43:15
actually doing him a solid right now he's in a very liberal writing right where like I think the idea that he's actually kind of a liberal is helpful to him so I don't know if that's
Zain
43:24
that's your intention or not fair but like uh it's it's not i'm just like reading the guy and i know him a bit and i yeah generally don't mind him yeah
Corey
43:31
yeah well and you know because because of geography and flights and all of that i just you know i know him a little bit more uh both ivy graduates too so you know you find little things i'll say this you find these little things that are like oh that's our connection and
Corey
43:44
and now we have that thing right
Corey
43:46
right like no matter how big or how small it is like you find that thing like me and pierre polyev we went to the same high school i haven't you know i haven't talk to pierre probably i've ever not even once but if i do we've got that we can go you
Carter
43:57
you notice he's starting to look a little bit more like pierre or
Zain
44:04
comment on that cory i'm
Corey
44:05
i'm not i'm not um i might start wearing glasses again yeah
Zain
44:13
carter what do you want to talk about i
Carter
44:15
i you know what i i'm just intrigued with all of this one of of the things that i'm i'm i'm actually really intrigued is um do you find this tight rope of this podcast now to be more daunting than it was when we used to than we were recording before how to present like like what like are you are you like stressed out like i'm not i could end his arms were crossed five
Corey
44:39
minutes so yeah i think so this has more to do with the seat like i have nowhere to put them like it just feels kind of like i'm in a weird spot hold my microphone
Carter
44:47
microphone otherwise yeah you
Corey
44:48
got you got a microphone hold i don't even have that but like no listen for sure so when
Corey
44:54
when we had the podcast i you know when i was on the podcast like i was a university vice president like i there were lines i shouldn't reasonably cross right you've always had more barriers than carter i've had for sure like that's been true like basically the entire existence of this bloody podcast but so it's not like you know i have a certain comfort with knowing like oh oh, there's things you can't do and there's things you can't say.
Corey
45:16
But Carter, to your point, like one of the things that's going through my head is like, and I'll always be a guy who likes to talk about the mechanics and the nuts and bolts and all of that. But you do, well, I started worrying even just today. I'm like, we're talking about the nuts and bolts in a way that maybe makes it sound like I don't care about the substance of it, but like they are just a delivery mechanism for it. Right. And, um, so
Corey
45:37
so yeah, I think about that too. And it definitely makes me think, it's not the same you know it's like i've got to be a little more mindful for sure no
Carter
45:46
no i like you struggling it it has always made me happy and suffering is one of the things i look for so this is good uh and i think your lighting has somehow improved through the course of this podcast do
Corey
45:57
do you know why because these lights are on a motion sensor and just if you still use your talk you still
Corey
46:03
still use your hands
Zain
46:03
hands to talk so yeah
Corey
46:06
yeah so it gets to be a challenge uh
Zain
46:08
uh carter we should You should probably let him go. It's nearly midnight. Are you guys going to talk about, like, policies?
Zain
46:12
policies? Do you want to? Well, I want to, but I want to save it. I guess at this point, Carter and I are probably going to be principal secretary and then get fired in a couple of weeks. So maybe, Carter, do you want to show me? I'm up for
Zain
46:25
it. I got an interview. Which part of the foreign service do you want to go to? I hear Carney's just tilting those out. No,
Carter
46:31
No, you can go
Zain
46:33
Anywhere in the world. It's fantastic. Yeah. No, no. Listen, I love what you guys are doing by trading the left for the right. Like, it's really, really good stuff. Congratulations. All right. It really sounds right. Do you want to go there? I don't know if you want to go there. It's always good
Corey
46:49
good to see you, Zane.
Zain
46:50
Zane. At midnight. Always good to see you. Carter, we
Zain
46:52
we will do an accountability of Corey, Vashti Capello style, where we ask you the same question, not in a different way, but in the same way three times, which is what makes Vashti a star.
Corey
47:06
to watch you scrub a bit uh
Zain
47:08
uh carter this is uh the final segment on the show i don't know if you remember as a minister uh we each get to ask uh our guest cory hogan one on the record question okay oh yeah this is where cory
Zain
47:19
provides us one on the record this was all off the record before we'll allow it what is happening listenership
Corey
47:24
listenership number since yeah
Corey
47:25
well it's it's it's it's trust me it's gone
Zain
47:28
gone up sky high sky okay sky sky rebuilding the patrons but sky high okay Okay. Carter, I have my question locked and loaded. It'll give you a bit of time to think of your question.
Carter
47:38
question. Yeah, thank you. Corey,
Zain
47:39
Corey, as a Canadian member of parliament, I want you to opine on, did Steve Ballmer purposefully circumvent the salary cap for Kawhi Leonard?
Corey
47:56
i i look i i think yes we've got to follow we got to follow
Zain
48:01
follow the smoke we
Corey
48:02
we got to follow the smoke on this there's a lot of smoke saying and i'm just asking questions and maybe i'll ask longer questions in the house where i've got you know libel shields but i'm just could
Zain
48:11
could you ask that could you ask that to the minister of sport do you have a minister of sport yeah i do i don't
Corey
48:15
don't get to ask questions i'm part of the government yeah well
Zain
48:18
well you literally threw a softball to to someone the other day. That was before I
Zain
48:22
you know, so an MP
Corey
48:22
MP who's not a minister
Zain
48:24
minister or prime minister. Okay, I got to talk to a conservative to get this question asked. Yeah, you do. Okay,
Corey
48:28
Okay, I'm going to get
Zain
48:32
How big of a deal would it be if I get this question asked to the House?
Zain
48:35
I would be pretty impressed based on how QP lists are
Zain
48:38
If I could do this, if I could do this, I would be impressed. Would I go down in House of Commons like I'll
Corey
48:45
I'll be a legend?
Zain
48:46
we'll put a bus This is my new project,
Zain
48:48
Okay. Carter, I'm unavailable able to record for the next six months i've got a project no
Carter
48:50
no you've got a project yeah of course you
Zain
48:52
you have one on the record question to ask the parliamentary secretary of the minister uh to the minister of podcast cory hogan what would you like to ask him um
Carter
49:00
um which is your favorite strategist host uh
Corey
49:04
uh annalise i don't know where she went yeah
Carter
49:07
yeah she's still doing the city the civic ones we're doing civic ones together okay
Zain
49:12
oh carter by the way with the with the remaining 30 seconds let's begin your accountability episode for the calgary party and the edmonton accelerants. What is the
Zain
49:21
actual name of the Edmonton party?
Zain
49:25
He doesn't like that I'm fucking up.
Carter
49:27
Better Edmonton. No, the Edmonton accelerants is fine with me. It seems to match the overall flavor of the campaign to this point. So
Zain
49:37
meant accelerant as in like gasoline
Carter
49:42
Burning the house down. Yeah, I know. I was very clear on what the accelerant meant.
Zain
49:47
are you are you wait wait yeah okay this is good this is good if carter admits to the following the episode title is start at the 50 minute mark stephen carter stephen
Zain
50:02
you are you admitting defeat no i'm saying we're catching fire that's
Carter
50:08
that's not what i was saying oh and that is not what i guess we just had a misunderstanding oh
Corey
50:18
I'm crossing my arms again. How do
Zain
50:23
do we exit this thing, usually?
Corey
50:25
This is the second one we've done of this, so...
Zain
50:29
What do we do the first time, Carter? You're the minister. I
Carter
50:31
I think both of you declare your allegiance to me, and then we...
Zain
50:39
your minister make you declare his allegiance to him, Corey? He does not, no.
Zain
50:46
that's upsetting. Yeah, just wait. Just wait. You get one shovel into the ground and those guys can change. Okay? Trust me. I declare my allegiance to you, Carter. Yes. Thank
Zain
50:55
And Corey? Corey, we're just waiting for you. Yeah. To His Majesty King Charles III.
Carter
51:00
Oh, that's upsetting. And
Zain
51:02
all his regional representatives, correct. That's good. That's good. Thank you.