Transcript
Zain
0:02
This is the strategist episode 999.9999. My name is Zain Velji with
Zain
0:08
me as always Corey Hogan and
Zain
0:10
and a highly medicated
Zain
0:12
medicated Stephen Carter. Guys, what is going on?
Carter
0:18
I'm feeling really good. You're
Zain
0:19
You're sounding terrible, but yes, I'll give you the floor Carter. Tell us, uh tell
Zain
0:23
tell us what happened i
Carter
0:25
had a crash i
Carter
0:27
was riding my bicycle and
Carter
0:29
and uh i crashed and
Carter
0:31
and i seemed to have really hurt myself but
Zain
0:33
but i'm okay i'm here
Carter
0:33
here with you guys i
Carter
0:35
like i'm great at this point i really can't even feel my fingers so
Carter
0:38
so things are feeling
Zain
0:41
cory uh steven got let go uh from his bike and uh sorry that was a pregnant
Zain
0:47
pause sorry carter what was
SPEAKER_01
0:49
was that severance light yeah sorry sorry
Zain
0:50
sorry carter yeah about that uh that seems i
Carter
0:53
i may lose it i may lose a toe is apparently the uh where the severance is coming in i'm
Zain
0:58
i'm losing my big toe it
Carter
0:59
hurts a lot got
Carter
1:01
got caught between a rock and my pedal and
Carter
1:04
and then i crashed okay
Zain
1:05
okay this is pretty
Carter
1:06
pretty good good crash i was impressed okay
Zain
1:08
okay i gave you the floor of once i'm not giving it to you again to add more detail anyways
Carter
1:12
afl predictions start tomorrow i'm gonna try and get uh nine for nine but it happens all in two nights so i'm pretty excited let me
Zain
1:20
me tell you something carter i've been out for stampede season being a good calgarian a lot of people uh resonate with your afl predictions they uh many
Zain
1:26
many have told me they've gotten into afl because of you uh
Zain
1:30
have also told me they've stopped listening to the podcast because of you but i mean that's that's neither here nor there um but carter your hit rate i'm
Zain
1:38
i'm assuming is better than your afl prediction rate so there you go i
Carter
1:42
i crash more frequently than i get a perfect game perfect
Carter
1:45
perfect predictions so there
Carter
1:47
you go it gives you a sense of how i'm doing cory
Zain
1:49
cory uh seriously i can't feel my fingers this is amazing yeah
Zain
1:52
yeah well okay thank you carter carter this is focus oh my goodness this is gonna be even even even tougher isn't it cory might
SPEAKER_01
2:01
this might give you our best episode ever i haven't decided yet you
Zain
2:04
you haven't decided you usually have a sense of it in the first what like you
SPEAKER_01
2:07
you know for the people listening at home right now steven carter is literally on on camera just looking at his fingers to see how they move right now that's
SPEAKER_01
2:16
good sign a bad sign i don't know but we're gonna hear the unvarnished truth as uh as stephen carter sees it i feel like and i'll tell
Carter
2:23
tell you something this is a reason to be one of those ten dollar a month patrons i
Carter
2:26
i could watch this live let's
Zain
2:27
let's not let's not waste this let's move it on to our first segment our first segment carter tells all carter uh worst politician you've ever worked for go ahead while While we have you medicated, go ahead, please.
Carter
2:40
He wasn't a politician.
Zain
2:43
Carter, best politician you've worked for?
Zain
2:47
Oh, okay. What a twist. What a twist. Let's
Zain
2:51
Let's start there, Carter. Might as well. Thank you for helping with the transition.
Zain
3:03
There's word that she's leading, Corey. Corey, there's word that she is ahead in this thing. There's word that she's playing this. Based on what? I want to get to this, Carter. There's word that she's playing this strategically beautifully,
Zain
3:14
beautifully, that she is the heir apparent. It's done. Game over.
Zain
3:21
Corey, your take from what you've seen thus far, is it way too early to call this thing? And even if it is, Danielle Smith, she
Zain
3:27
she seems to be doing something right.
SPEAKER_01
3:31
Well, look, she's definitely in the mix in a way that was not a guarantee at the start of her campaign,
SPEAKER_01
3:37
right? But she's got a following. She's got an audience. She was on the radio for a long time.
SPEAKER_01
3:44
And now she's doing things for the Western Standard that continue to get her voice out there.
SPEAKER_01
3:48
So it shouldn't be entirely surprising that there's a bit of a base for her to work from. I do think the commentary class might be pulling the fire alarm a little quick on this one. It seems to be based on... So what you've said, this idea that danielle smith might even be the front runner seems to be based in
SPEAKER_01
4:05
in large part on like one column right
SPEAKER_01
4:08
right in the calgary herald that uh you know that was making big notice of the fact that she didn't just put in her i
SPEAKER_01
4:16
i can't remember what it was like a thousand signatures needed but 2,500 signatures needed yeah
SPEAKER_01
4:21
yeah that's fine uh and you know we'd be the first on the show to say pick something you think you can do better than your opponents on and then you know do a bit of shock and awe and create a bit of a splash but you
SPEAKER_01
4:31
you know you're not going to win this thing with 2,500 you're
SPEAKER_01
4:35
you're not so I don't think anybody should say my goodness this this guarantee she's locked it up and I think Travis Taves getting in there as
SPEAKER_01
4:42
as an accountant and submitting a thousand signatures as required is very much in keeping with his personality too and he was the first so who
SPEAKER_01
4:48
who cares it's not like he needed to do shock and awe at
SPEAKER_01
4:51
at that particular moment so sure
SPEAKER_01
4:53
sure wouldn't call the the game yet certainly noticeable that danielle smith seems to have broken into the conversation in ways big and small certainly twitter is all about her in the last couple of days um and tonight she had an event with theron flurry uh as the headliner as the opener for those
SPEAKER_01
5:13
for whom all of this is a different language theron flurry was a hockey player for the the calgary flames he eventually went to the rangers um
SPEAKER_01
5:24
he should have kept his opinions to hockey i think by and large really went into kind of like the right-wing conspiracy mold and
SPEAKER_01
5:31
and uh continues to pop up online saying totally outrageous things like you should kill the prime minister and has now started showing up on fox news way
SPEAKER_01
5:38
way outside of anything that would be considered mainstream so you
SPEAKER_01
5:41
you know his views on vaccines are exactly as you would would expect based on what i've just said his his views on basically everything sort
SPEAKER_01
5:49
sort of check the fox news box is he obviously is leaning on that channel on his remote um
SPEAKER_01
5:54
but uh yeah i mean she's
SPEAKER_01
5:57
i i think it's a combination of the fact that she is in the conversation she did her her big signature drop everyone is now saying holy fuck this what is this going to happen is she now they're going to be the leader of the party but
SPEAKER_01
6:09
but probably a little soon to say that carter
Zain
6:11
carter i want want to get your take on this. But it'd be unfair, whether if I didn't follow up on your statement in terms of best politician you've worked with.
Zain
6:20
And before I do that, I'll just look back to what Corey was talking here about the signatures. So there's a couple of tranches of when the cash call for the UCP leadership are that total to 175,000. She paid it all at once. And she got 4,500 signatures versus I think the thousand that you need from the regions across the province. So a show of strength, a flex, so to speak, in that regard. Carter, I want to get your thoughts on her in this race. Before I do that, tell me what you meant by best politician you've worked with.
Carter
6:49
She has the natural skills of being a politician. I mean, I think that, you know, when we work with politicians, there's obviously little ticks that you try and work out of them. Menchie's tick was that he'd roll
Carter
6:59
roll his head back and close his eyes and then kind of do his professorial statement. When I do that, by the way, very dizzy. I'm OK. He came back in. and i'm okay now but
Carter
7:10
does this professorial statement of let me tell you why i'm why you're wrong kind of thing let me tell you why i'm the smartest in the room and
Carter
7:18
and danielle actually just locks in on the voter and
Carter
7:21
and she's very connected to that voter she listens very well she speaks very well she
Carter
7:26
she has a nasty little kind of uh tick
Carter
7:28
tick of lowering her voice when she's speaking uh her
Carter
7:32
her noise her voice isn't naturally that low but she just kind of does it i
Carter
7:36
i think that that's not Not necessarily unfamiliar
Carter
7:38
unfamiliar for female politicians to kind of do that. But nonetheless,
Carter
7:42
nonetheless, I mean, I think that she's very authentic when she's actually speaking. And now that she's had all these years on the radio, she
Carter
7:48
she also knows how to drive an audience.
Carter
7:50
Her radio audience was very big. They loved her. They did not love her at the start because of her floor
Carter
7:56
floor crossing exercise. But she knew, I
Carter
7:59
I think then, and she knew when she left the QR
Carter
8:07
that she had won them back.
Carter
8:08
And she had won them back in
Carter
8:10
in a major way by
Carter
8:11
by saying the outlandish things that people who listen to AM talk radio want
Carter
8:16
And so she would do that. And now she's carrying that forward. I don't think, though, that
Carter
8:20
that this is outside of the expectations that we talked about a couple of months ago. or I don't know how many, how
Carter
8:26
how long ago, but we talked about who was going to be the strongest between Brian Jean and
Carter
8:31
Danielle and whoever, Todd Lowen, who was kind of the third
Carter
8:35
third right-wing person. We
Carter
8:36
We anticipated Danielle being in the first spot of those three, but
Carter
8:41
but I'm still standing by the expectation that Travis
Carter
8:44
Travis Taves is still in the first position and
Carter
8:48
and Danielle is in second. My
Carter
8:49
My problem is who
Carter
8:51
who comes in third right
Carter
8:53
right now? know who's in third because if it's if
Carter
8:55
if it's uh brian
Carter
8:56
brian gene then then danielle's really in a good spot uh
Carter
9:00
uh to rock it up and rock it over caves being first place also at this time isn't
Carter
9:06
uh we've talked about that before um
Carter
9:08
being in first place is super hard if you can't find someone to lift you up uh
Carter
9:13
uh i do think though that brian
Carter
9:14
brian gene being uh
Carter
9:16
uh brian gene and be and um And Todd
Carter
9:19
Todd Lohan, being as crazy as Danielle, will
Carter
9:22
will drive them, their
Carter
9:23
their voters, together. So this
Carter
9:26
this may be a bad situation for the UCP.
Carter
9:29
UCP. And the other reason that she's doing very well, she's
Carter
9:33
she's driving Travis Taves to make similar comments to the right to
Carter
9:37
to try and undermine the expectations. He's out there talking about not
Carter
9:43
mandating vaccinations and those types of things, too. So lots
Carter
9:46
lots going on, for sure. Sure. Lots going on. Corey,
Zain
9:49
Corey, you're in the Smith campaign right now. You know, she's she's received, you
Zain
9:54
know, an article on the back of a large audience on the back of some videos where she's talked about censorship, the sovereignty act, the health spending account. So she's putting out content there that's getting her notice. She is piercing through in some way, shape or form.
Zain
10:08
To Carter's point, if
Zain
10:10
if you are her and her team this week, Stampede Week, and she's been everywhere. where I've seen her a couple of times this week myself, but from the perspective of the front runner pole position, is
Zain
10:20
is that something you're shying away from? Is that something you're leaning into? Because if the iron's hot, you almost want to take advantage of it. So she's been on a lot of airwaves. She's done interviews across the province.
Zain
10:30
What do you want to do right now? And can you shake off front runner position if you don't want it strategically?
SPEAKER_01
10:38
Yeah, well, I would say strategically, I'm not sure it's in her interest to be the front runner. Even in this past week, I think the very notion that she might be has led to a lot of backlash,
SPEAKER_01
10:48
backlash, a lot of commentary about her Alberta sovereignty plan being totally unworkable from Howard Anglin. You've had a couple of academics take it apart as well.
SPEAKER_01
10:58
again, not that Twitter is a great barometer of anything, but on Twitter,
SPEAKER_01
11:02
Twitter, the conversation is often about Daniel Smith and what would the consequences be to Alberta if Daniel Smith was there pulling up examples
SPEAKER_01
11:08
examples of lawsuits she threatened, where she raised money for and didn't use the lawsuit i think that was mimi williams i could be mistaken on that but you know every day there seems to be more content about
SPEAKER_01
11:18
about danielle smith and her past that might be disqualifying comments she's made in the past about you know cigarettes are good for you almost i think was one of the articles really weird stuff and
SPEAKER_01
11:27
and you know one of the challenges i think with being a pundit is
SPEAKER_01
11:31
is pundits don't make great candidates because there's a long track record of hot takes and can i tell you yeah
SPEAKER_01
11:36
we well and even in this podcast which we we we have some control over when we record and how long we record but you know it comes around to once a week and you got to do it and you talk about stuff and you
SPEAKER_01
11:47
you may not have the strongest opinions but you're going to end up talking an hour about it and then all of a sudden that's on the record forever so you know daniel smith's got a bit of that going on and
SPEAKER_01
11:55
and if she's the front runner all
SPEAKER_01
11:57
all of that gets pulled forward all of that gets the discussion and everybody gets the kind of the gut check of do we really want daniel smith with this baggage and
SPEAKER_01
12:04
and it gives them a chance to second guess I think a much safer position for her is second place, but you
SPEAKER_01
12:10
you can't deny that she's leading the conversation right now in the Alberta UCP leadership race. You
Zain
12:15
You know, Corey, you're making such a great point about pundits and whether they make good candidates. And I think the only one that does is myself. So please get your Zane Belger for Leader poster at thestrategist.ca. We are selling out. They are selling like
Zain
12:28
like hotcakes, the Zane Belger for Leader posters. Carter. No,
SPEAKER_01
12:30
No, no, I'm sorry. When I told you they were selling out, what I meant was. Okay,
Zain
12:34
Okay, yeah. Yeah, they
SPEAKER_01
12:35
they were an example of you selling. Oh, I'm so sorry.
Zain
12:37
sorry. I misunderstood. Like any leader. So
SPEAKER_01
12:41
So far, none sold so far.
Zain
12:42
That's great. So great to see you again. Just want
Zain
12:45
to update everyone. I can no longer
Zain
12:49
Thank you, Carter. Carter, of course, is reciting lyrics from a weekend song. I appreciate that, Carter.
Zain
12:57
question for you while you're high. Can you actually shake off pole position when they're assigning it to you? when the collective they the media the pundit class like we're fucking spending the first hour minutes many minutes this goes talking about daniel smith you
Zain
13:12
can you shake it off
Carter
13:14
no and it's tricky because you what you can do is you can you can downplay it right
Carter
13:19
right but you always need to sell more memberships you always need to bring more people into the fold i mean even
Carter
13:25
even if you are the front runner i mean your next kate your next opportunity is to be where pierre polyethics,
Carter
13:30
right? Where the person is going to come third, gets disqualified, and suddenly the entire race opens up.
Carter
13:36
You'd rather be in a strong position than a weak position. So
Carter
13:39
So you sell more memberships. You tell everybody that it's
Carter
13:42
it's not true that you're in first place. You're in
Carter
13:45
in third at the best, and you have to keep fighting to make sure that the
Carter
13:50
centrists don't take control of the right-wing insanity that you're trying to put forward.
Carter
13:56
I think that that's her know her best case is to do that so i
Carter
14:00
i don't know i think that why
Carter
14:02
why would you give up momentum we we
Carter
14:04
we want momentum like
Carter
14:06
like momentum is the the holy grail of things that we're trying to get when we're playing in politics uh
Carter
14:11
uh take the momentum and then then just downplay it uh
Carter
14:13
uh to your followers get them to work harder carter
Zain
14:16
carter i want to leave it with you for for a second or if i go to you cory
Zain
14:20
how should other folks in this race be looking at danielle right now because she's assumed this position. She's got policy takes that might be resonant with, I'd even say, a subset of UCP membership, let alone UCP members writ large. How should someone like a Rajansani or how should someone like a Rebecca Schultz, who maybe comes from a more progressive
Zain
14:39
progressive conservative wing of the party, how should they be looking at Danielle in terms of their
Zain
14:43
their point of attack on a messaging front? I know the name of the game, as we've talked about many times, is sales, sales, sales. But as it relates to the air war and positioning themselves, how
Zain
14:52
how should they be looking at themselves as compared to danielle and her policy should they be going after those policies directly or should because it may not necessarily play to the ucp membership it may play writ large to those who are never going to buy a membership or should they be focusing on their own lane how would you be playing it right now well
Carter
15:08
i think that leela here actually put out a release that said that they would or
Carter
15:13
or that she would um uh
Carter
15:17
counteracting one of the proposals that was put put forward by Taves and Smith
Carter
15:22
Smith and Jean, but she didn't mention any of their names. And I think that that's actually the way to do it.
Carter
15:31
drop in and say, this is what, you know, Danielle Smith is wrong. Now, all of a sudden, Danielle Smith's in your story. Just
Carter
15:37
Just put forward the policies that you think that Albertans want to hear. If I were doing it, I would move significantly to the left and focus almost entirely on
Carter
15:47
on things like healthcare, care education and post-secondary um
Carter
15:51
conservatives care about those things too conservatives want their kids in university or in trade education or wherever
Carter
15:58
wherever and there's great things that you can do in that world and
Carter
16:02
and still be a conservative um
Carter
16:04
you don't have to be as conservative as
Carter
16:07
as daniel smith but you're never going to be as conservative as daniel smith so don't try i
Carter
16:12
i think that that was is actually the mistake that Taves
Carter
16:14
Taves made in the last two weeks is
Carter
16:16
is trying to modify his message to
Carter
16:19
to fit into Danielle Smith's positioning.
Zain
16:23
Yeah, Corey, your take on this and even the last point Carter brought up where Taves seems to be reacting to Smith in a sense and seeing, oh, goodness, maybe I need to move further to the right, maybe play more to the rural base, so to speak. Your thoughts on how they should be tackling Smith's messaging and her policy positioning?
SPEAKER_01
16:41
Yeah. Well, the first thing to keep in mind about Taves is there's
SPEAKER_01
16:46
there's not a lot of reason to believe this is not actually what his position would be. So it's more he's deciding to vocalize his position in
SPEAKER_01
16:53
in a way that might not be helpful with more urban voters. And maybe they've made the calculation. Those are going to be second ballot, third ballot choices. And he's going to wrap up what was kind of the traditional PC base in rural Alberta.
SPEAKER_01
17:05
It's always tough to say what people are going for, not knowing their strategy. And it's one of the interesting things we try to to do is pull it apart from the outside but one
SPEAKER_01
17:11
one of the other reasons he might have been interested in doing that um is he might have decided that's where the fish are right
SPEAKER_01
17:18
and one of the things i've been thinking a lot about is there was a time just any civic-minded albertan joined the pcs during a leadership contest to vote right
SPEAKER_01
17:26
right steven knows this well that's how he got allison redford the leadership yeah
SPEAKER_01
17:31
yeah you could convince teachers to go vote you could convince nurses to go vote, we called it the five-minute Tories here
SPEAKER_01
17:38
And it was a time of true one party rule. I think people need to appreciate. But
SPEAKER_01
17:43
But that's kind of over in Alberta. I
SPEAKER_01
17:47
I don't know what's going to happen next election, but I know the NDP are
SPEAKER_01
17:51
are going to be competitive in it, which means that they are competitive in three in a row. And we are in a bit of a two-party rule situation here in Alberta. And
SPEAKER_01
17:59
And so if you're a civic-minded Albertan, whereas before you might might've said, I just want the best PC party possible. I'm going to vote for the person who I think will, they're
SPEAKER_01
18:06
they're always going to be government. So we might as well have the best PC.
SPEAKER_01
18:09
don't have that anymore. And in fact, I think that there's a lot of people because there's a credible alternative in the NDP who are saying, I
SPEAKER_01
18:16
I hope they pick the craziest fucking asshole they can. And so they'll go down in flames in the general election.
SPEAKER_01
18:22
It's a dangerous game for sure, but it's a game we see played in all sorts of other jurisdictions. So the fundamental calculus of leadership politics for conservatives may
SPEAKER_01
18:33
may have changed pretty fundamentally since 2015.
Zain
18:36
Carter, I want to talk about this. I'm glad Corey brought up the NDP. You know, from the NDP perspective right now, they're watching this race go on. They know that there's, of course, a finite time that it does go on before the party. Well, I shouldn't even guarantee before the party unites because that's not a guarantee, right? To be clear that depending on who the UCP select, unity
Zain
18:53
unity is an option. It's not a guarantee after October 6th.
SPEAKER_01
18:57
6th. It's not a given. Right. It's not
Zain
18:59
given October 6th, but they're watching it, assuming that there's going to be some level of halo effect to the leader. How does the NDP think about this, Carter? Because you've got Danielle Smith right now proposing policies that seem to be radically misaligned with where the general public might be. It might be where some of the subset of the UCP membership might be. But if she doesn't win, are all those charges against her and the fact that this party incubated and oxygenated those perspectives thrown out the window? Or is there a way they can make an attack on the craziness that was the process before
Zain
19:33
before they get to their eventual leader?
Carter
19:36
think that they need to make sure that there's an attack on the ideas
Carter
19:40
ideas that are coming forward, especially the ones that are being embraced by
Carter
19:44
by two and three and four different candidates.
Carter
19:47
The NDP is able to occupy an awful lot of the spectrum at this stage.
Carter
19:52
And my recommendation to them would be occupy as much of that spectrum as humanly possible.
Carter
19:57
You know, if the center is available, go find the center. The
Carter
20:01
only people who are going to try and come bring the UCP to the center are
Carter
20:06
are Sonny and Schultz. And right now, I think that it'd be pretty
Carter
20:09
pretty hard to try and imagine them actually in this game, given
Carter
20:13
given the Taves and Smith
Carter
20:16
dialogue that's coming along. Now, I think we've
Carter
20:18
we've talked before about how I think that Sonny has the ability to sell a lot of memberships, and
Carter
20:22
and this is a one-member, one-vote. So everything
Carter
20:24
everything still is very much up in the air. But if
Carter
20:27
if you're allowing your party to go down this route, it's the same thing that's going to happen with Pierre Palliev, Pedro.
Carter
20:33
Pierre Palliev is counting on two and a half, three years of
Carter
20:36
of rebuilding or pivoting away from some of the things he's saying in
Carter
20:43
The UCP will not have two and a half, three years. They're going to have a maximum of about five months.
Carter
20:50
My thinking is the NDP should be using this after
Carter
20:54
after October the 6th to
Carter
20:56
to define the people that the party wants to serve.
Carter
21:01
The people that this party wants to serve don't look like the three of us.
Carter
21:05
That would be the messaging that you'd want to go with. The people that the UCP want to serve aren't
Carter
21:11
aren't like you. you know, that's,
Carter
21:13
that's, that's what I would, you know, that's the way I would probably focus in on this, but not until after October the 6th.
Zain
21:18
Corey, as, as the infighting continues in the, in the UCP for their leadership, is there a way the NDP can make hay, whether it be now or later of all of the mess and the, and the, and the dirt and the, and the extremely misaligned policies that have been proposed in this leadership race, despite the outcome?
SPEAKER_01
21:39
Well, look, we've talked about this in a federal context. my advice is the same i generally don't think there's a ton of upside to actively meddling in somebody else's leadership race and exposing kind of these pain
SPEAKER_01
21:50
pain points because it gives an opportunity for them to rally against an external force and say we may not agree but we agree that the ndp are terrible and it
SPEAKER_01
21:58
it probably makes it more likely that they'll be unified as a conservative party after this race if they're dealing with a lot of incoming
SPEAKER_01
22:04
incoming that forces them to have to have those loyalties stephen carter is literally sitting here shaking his hands with no feeling weird uh where
SPEAKER_01
22:13
where the hell was i uh yeah but like carter carter
Zain
22:16
before before before you finish i i know where you were i'll get back to it uh carter your uh pin for your bank account
Zain
22:25
just your your secret password your mother's maiden name carter just for everyone on
Zain
22:28
on the podcast your mother's maiden name just while we have you i
Carter
22:33
i am not stupid i'm just not not feeling things
Zain
22:38
Corey, you were saying the strategy that applied federally, not to meddle in someone else's race, the upside there, you still don't see it here. So you
SPEAKER_01
22:45
you get a bunch of external attacks from your main opponent. And what's going to happen is that things like debates,
SPEAKER_01
22:51
people will stand up and rally against the external fight, right?
SPEAKER_01
22:53
right? They'll say, well, you know, the damn NDP are just trying to poke at things and pull at these threads. And you
SPEAKER_01
22:59
you don't want to give them that. You just want those threads to be there without a bunch of excuses that these are like agent provocateurs from the NDP. That's really where the, you know, that's where you're going to get the party literally legitimately falling apart. If
SPEAKER_01
23:11
If you're the NDP, you might be able to make the public think that the party is falling apart, but that's not necessarily going to,
SPEAKER_01
23:17
that may help you, that may not help you, but it's not going to make it more likely the party falls apart. And,
SPEAKER_01
23:22
And, you know, it's funny. So Carter was saying, and I 100% agree, if the center is available, take it, right? There's not a lot of risk if you're the NDP and moving towards the center and capturing those votes. And certainly every
SPEAKER_01
23:35
every party needs to think about how they get elected. I
SPEAKER_01
23:37
I just think it's a funny thing to say because the NDP are a pretty moderate party in the Alberta version of it. Like the Alberta NDP would be a right-wing party in BC. I remember watching that BC debate and
SPEAKER_01
23:48
and the far-right party there, well, not the far-right, but the BC liberals were to
SPEAKER_01
23:52
to the left of the Alberta NDP on a lot of things. I remember being quite taken by that. um
SPEAKER_01
23:59
so it's it's as much anything it's it's optics so i don't think the ndp need a splashy like we are now going to embrace random
SPEAKER_01
24:07
random centrists that will light their bases hair on fire but i think it's they you know they need the you
SPEAKER_01
24:12
you know they need the symbolism that they're going to be there at the center and and maybe even saying things like if the ucp is not interested in being where albertans are i want you to know we are yeah this is a party that's a pragmatic party uh
SPEAKER_01
24:24
uh that is is going to govern for all albertans and and maybe that's the opportunity i think the
SPEAKER_01
24:30
the rest is kind of the basic advice we always give send your people have your oppo ready get
SPEAKER_01
24:35
get all of the dirt just be ready to spool it out when it's to your advantage after the election uh
SPEAKER_01
24:40
uh after the leadership election i should say but
SPEAKER_01
24:46
be don't be don't jump into the
SPEAKER_01
24:48
the ring and you know let them let them duke it out carter
Zain
24:51
carter uh let's let's end on the daniel segment uh spit segment on this, which is what Corey mentioned earlier on in his intro laying out the field, the Theo Fleury endorsement.
Zain
25:01
As we speak right now, as we record right now, nearly nine o'clock on Thursday, the 14th, Danielle Smith is at her Calgary-based rally where Theo Fleury was her opening speaker. A lot of people on Twitter, online, in the chattering class, annoyed by this, frustrated by this. Danielle Smith today in an interview with Ryan Jesperson leaning into it saying, I don't agree with everything, but we see there's some overlap here, you know, values the work he's done on mental health.
Zain
25:29
Carter, what do you think she's trying to do here? Is this just an extension of her narrow-casted policy, or was this a strategic mistake? Like, you know, take the ideology out of it, your ideology, from a pure operator's perspective. Was this a good move for someone with the audience that she is trying to court, Carter?
Carter
25:47
This is Dean Lindell. This is the MyPillow guy. guy. This is the overstock.com guy.
Carter
25:53
This is a thing that's going on right now in politics and especially in right wing politics, where you find the right wing person you knew, and you stand with that right wing person. And then you say, well, I don't agree with everything they said.
Carter
26:07
But at some point, you have to at least acknowledge that
Carter
26:11
that what the person is saying is harmful to our democracy.
Carter
26:14
If this is a person who is advocating, you
Carter
26:17
you know, like if you're standing on the stage with brett wilson who
Carter
26:20
who is advocated actually hanging people who who
Carter
26:24
oppose his pipelines or oppose his oil and gas ideas um
Carter
26:29
um for as traitors then
Carter
26:31
then you're standing with someone who's who's threatening to hang canadians whose point of view differs from his uh and i think that you know theo flurry i've
Carter
26:40
i've i've had him blocked for a long time because he's he's just a he's
Carter
26:45
he's just a he's He's not a good person.
Carter
26:48
Fundamentally, he's not a good person. And this is one of my great problems with Danielle.
Carter
26:53
Danielle would always surround herself with people who aren't great people because she likes the ideology.
Carter
26:59
She wants the ideology.
Carter
27:01
If she, you know, if she'd wanted to be the premier of this province, there was a path for her to be premier. She
Carter
27:06
She chose not to be premier. She
Carter
27:08
She chose to be the person who defended the lake of fire, the
Carter
27:11
the person who defended your racist comments by her candidate.
Zain
27:17
she chose to do. There is something interesting as you talk about that. The reason I interrupt you, it's almost like she was ousted, left, whatever version of that, all of it together, the wild rose, because she felt like they were ungovernable, that they were not her people. Yet now she comes back nearly a decade later with viewpoints that perhaps even outflank those individuals. And so the question I have for you is, what exactly is the ideology that she has? Because I don't think it's social conservatism. It might be a libertarian tinge. But what do you kind of make of this? You say she's in love with the ideology. What is it, Carter? Carter.
Carter
27:54
The ideal, the ideology that she's always done is she's always chosen to surround herself by people who are extreme.
Carter
28:01
And what was extreme 10 years ago is not extreme enough, you know, is not what's extreme now. We
Carter
28:07
We have moved further to the right in society because Donald Trump took us there.
Carter
28:13
if Jeb Bush had just listened to my prediction in 2015 and actually done the work that needed to be done,
Carter
28:20
then I think they would have been fine. But instead, Jeb Bush lets us down, and Trump becomes the Republican
Carter
28:27
Republican frontrunner. Hillary Clinton doesn't run against him, and
Carter
28:31
and people don't falsely equate the two, Clinton
Carter
28:37
Now all of a sudden, Danielle
Carter
28:39
Danielle Smith is taking ivermectin to
Carter
28:42
to make sure that her COVID symptoms don't come back. I
Carter
28:46
I mean, I think that this
Carter
28:48
this is a different world that we live in 10 years later.
Carter
28:52
Danielle will still run into the problem of being a leader with people that won't follow.
Carter
28:57
This group is not governable.
Carter
28:59
Like, this is the foundation of the conservative movement right now.
Carter
29:02
Michelle Rempel-Garner wrote it a few weeks ago when she decided not to go into this race. It
Carter
29:08
It doesn't matter who the leader is. People aren't going to follow. And I think that ultimately, that's what the NDP should be looking at and saying, thank God, maybe
Carter
29:16
maybe we can get through this process where people just don't feel comfortable voting
Carter
29:20
voting for a UCP at all.
Carter
29:22
And we'll see a voter turnout plummet like we did in 19 or in 2000. And was
Carter
29:27
was that 2008? When
Carter
29:29
When we saw our voters, the voter, the
Carter
29:31
the number of voters plummet when no one wanted Kevin Taft and
SPEAKER_01
29:34
and no one wanted Stelmack.
Carter
29:40
right wing politics, Pierre Palliev, Daniel Smith, Maxime
Carter
29:44
Maxime Bernier, you know, they all go, Brian Jean, they're all going too far.
Carter
29:51
maybe that presents an opportunity for the center and the left.
Zain
29:54
Corey, you know, we like to keep the audience updated and we don't want them to miss any reference when Carter says the Jeb Bush thing. Can you just explain to people what he's talking about there?
Carter
30:04
Oh, yeah. I mean, so there was this thing where- Jeb Bush needs to survive this primary and compete in a general- Jeb Bush is not surviving this primary. He's totally surviving this primary. Mark it down on your calendar, okay? Stephen Carter said today- So hold on, hold on. Jeb Bush is the guy. So
SPEAKER_01
30:18
So you know what I love about that, Zane? And I'm glad you're giving us the chance to talk about it. Dissected, please. Yeah. No,
SPEAKER_01
30:22
haven't had the deep dive
Zain
30:23
dive on this yet. What happened?
SPEAKER_01
30:25
Yeah. That you actually tried to stop him from making the mark it down prediction, and he ran over over you to insist on telling everybody to mark their calendars of the day that
SPEAKER_01
30:35
that he made the prediction uh that that jeb bush would quote unquote survive the primary and uh you know fighting the general so
Zain
30:43
i mean he's still alive so he did survive the primary and and carter did not say he's gonna win he said he is the guy which is just you know like colloquial this guy's my man right and carter i know how you
Zain
30:54
so carter uh props to you cory let's finish off the segment with your take on this. What is the Danielle Smith ideology? Carter says it's as simple as surrounding yourself with extremists that perhaps provide her a warm blanket for her perspectives. She can kind of build off of that energy.
Zain
31:11
I don't know if I necessarily agree, but I also don't have the background of working for Danielle like Carter has had in the past. But as you see it in this race, Corey, what
Zain
31:19
what do you make of the Danielle Smith ideology? Because to me, it doesn't seem like a straight down
Zain
31:24
down the middle social conservative lane that she's operating do
SPEAKER_01
31:28
you know i'm thinking i was thinking about this earlier today in the context of her being on jesperson's show yeah because
SPEAKER_01
31:32
because she said something along the lines of we need to listen to each other and people said that's crazy you're also saying that these people are terrible you know like saying these horrible things about the the
SPEAKER_01
31:42
the liberals i think that danielle smith is my view is she's a libertarian For sure, she thinks there should be less government in the world, but
SPEAKER_01
31:51
but she's also somebody who is very keen to hear the opinions of people who are in the fringes. And I think she gives far too much weight to them. And
SPEAKER_01
32:00
And she invites them into the conversation so much. She platforms them and she gets seduced by them on occasion, right? I mean, she is one of these people who believes that there
SPEAKER_01
32:10
there is wisdom out there that might just be sort of hidden underneath a rock. and
SPEAKER_01
32:14
you turn over that rock and a lot of us would say that's
SPEAKER_01
32:17
that's a dog turd danielle that's that's not that's not anything she'd
SPEAKER_01
32:20
she'd say no no i'm pretty sure it's a piece of coal covering a diamond it's
SPEAKER_01
32:24
it's a diamond here you got to look at this rock and
SPEAKER_01
32:28
so my view is that danielle is somebody who has sincere libertarian beliefs and part of that libertarian
SPEAKER_01
32:33
libertarian belief is that there's not this monopoly on wisdom that
SPEAKER_01
32:37
that uh you know that exists in the ivory tower or any of those other metaphors that are out there and
SPEAKER_01
32:42
and so she finds herself in conversations with people
SPEAKER_01
32:46
people perhaps even she disagrees with but she gives a lot of credence to them and uh and then it bleeds back into the mainstream in ways that i think are are fundamentally pretty scary when you talk about being the premier of a province
Zain
32:57
province i i like how you've described that they're gonna leave that segment there thank you guys well done uh that segment of course brought to us by our sponsor flair airlines flair airlines a rock in airlines clothing it's so not our
SPEAKER_01
33:08
our sponsor okay steven carter is now just slapping his face to see if he's alive that's good that's good carter that's
SPEAKER_01
33:15
that's the sound you hear there yeah
Zain
33:16
yeah that's i'm glad you explained it because we don't know what that sound could have been let's move it on to our next segment our next segment cowboy boots and jean jackets not jean jackets cory jean jackets because when you're jean charre and you show
SPEAKER_01
33:31
show up to the calgary
Zain
33:32
calgary stampede you don't wear cowboy gear. No, you wear a white shirt and a navy blue blazer because that's what you do when you show up to the Calgary Stampede when you are Jean Charest. Corey, Jean Charest has been endorsed by
Zain
33:46
by Patrick Brown. Corey, he has been endorsed by the guy no longer in the race. And I want to spend not much time on Jean Charest other than to say, let's
Zain
33:54
let's talk about the strategy of how to maximize an endorsement. I know the Patrick Brown endorsement is non-conventional
Zain
34:03
comes with Patrick Brown leaving the race, perhaps the way Patrick Brown didn't see himself leaving the race. But Carter, Corey, I want to talk about the strategy of
Zain
34:11
how to maximize an endorsement when one is given to you. What are the rules? How do you lean into it? And in this case, we'll get specific on this particular case, guys. How do you try to, as best as you can, convert some of these Patrick Brown supporters, many of them, as the Brown camp have said, You know, from a racialized background, maybe communities that didn't see themselves historically in the conservatives party. How do you court them? Or do you spend any time courting them? Or are you focused directly on your strategies, but especially with your slim pathway to victory now getting blockaded, arguably. So Carter, let me start with you on this. I want to get your take on this. Because I don't know how long you'll last and how long you'll be alive here. So
Zain
34:53
So while you're still i was
SPEAKER_01
34:54
was just gonna see if he swallowed his tongue for christ's sake carter
Zain
34:59
let's do it let's do it i
Zain
35:01
can't see him you see that's the issue i can't see him at all so i have no idea just like the listener i have no idea what what uh uh
Zain
35:08
uh gesticulation carter is doing carter are you okay to keep uh answering these questions at a mediocre level so
SPEAKER_01
35:15
so again carter audio medium him thumbs up's not gonna help too much buddy i'm ready to go okay
Zain
35:25
let's do it baby
SPEAKER_01
35:26
this is not a bit this
SPEAKER_01
35:28
this is not a bit
SPEAKER_01
35:29
bit this is carter
SPEAKER_01
35:29
very stoned right now he's
Zain
35:31
he's extremely stoned he got into a bike accident this is why we don't go outside cory uh this is why
Zain
35:37
avoid doing activities like this although i've just purchased a scooter for myself. Carter, Jean
Zain
35:44
endorsements. Tell me how this man maximizes the Patrick Brown endorsement. Let's start with the rules of maximizing an endorsement when one comes to you, and then let's get into the specifics of what Charest needs to do.
Carter
35:56
I think the best example of maximizing an endorsement comes from Ed Stelmack in 2007,
Carter
36:03
2007, I guess, when that leadership was held after Klein left, it was 2006, 2007,
Carter
36:10
the integration of the data, the
Carter
36:12
the integration of the communication strategy is super important.
Carter
36:16
You may think, oh, we've got an endorsement and everything is great, but it's not, it doesn't work that way.
Carter
36:21
When you get an endorsement, you need to know exactly who the supporters are that
Carter
36:27
that are coming to you to endorse you. You
Carter
36:29
You need to be able to then implement immediately a communications campaign that
Carter
36:33
that is one-to-one with those people so
Carter
36:35
so let's let's take patrick brown's 170 000 members and its face value and
Carter
36:40
and say okay there's 170 000 members that
Carter
36:43
that now need to have direct communications from the jean campaign jean
Carter
36:47
jean charrette campaign charrette i'm
Carter
36:49
i'm not brian gene jean
Carter
36:52
the different words jean
Carter
36:54
jean charrette's campaign wait
Zain
36:56
wait where does where Where does Jean-Croix Chan fit into this?
SPEAKER_01
37:05
right. So I'm going to tag in here.
Zain
37:09
so I have no idea if he's losing his shit or not. I have no sense.
SPEAKER_01
37:14
He's mostly staring at his hands like
SPEAKER_01
37:16
like they have the secrets of the universe in them. So you got that going on.
SPEAKER_01
37:21
Listen, by the way, if
SPEAKER_01
37:22
if you are not a $10 a month subscriber, you are.
SPEAKER_01
37:25
You are missing out.
Zain
37:27
oh my god yeah
SPEAKER_01
37:28
yeah i'm missing out too cory as we record the show i am also
SPEAKER_01
37:32
out well pay up asshole like what are you doing uh
SPEAKER_01
37:36
uh okay listen how do you maximize uh getting an endorsement like this well it's tough because this is not a normal endorsement this is an endorsement of somebody who
SPEAKER_01
37:47
who is who has been kicked out of the race and so there's a certain kind of like like, tarnish on that, that you've got to sort of weigh the
SPEAKER_01
37:55
the value or not with various audiences. Now, obviously, if you were in the tank for Patrick Brown, you're going to want to hear Jean Charest say things that are nice about Patrick Brown, how he shares the values. And this continues the mission that Patrick Brown started.
SPEAKER_01
38:11
And, you know, everything that he wanted to do, you know, be legends and do
SPEAKER_01
38:14
do great things for this party, you can do with Jean Charest. and we're really keen to continue that conversation with you and
SPEAKER_01
38:22
and um because they are not in a situation this is not like mark john
SPEAKER_01
38:26
john sure a second your guy is no longer in if you're a patrick brown person sure yeah charade campaign needs to um charade
SPEAKER_01
38:33
charade campaign needs to be able to um grab
SPEAKER_01
38:37
grab these people and turn them into active volunteers as well and
SPEAKER_01
38:41
and uh and steven that's a ring buddy you're you're You're playing with your ring. That's very exciting.
Carter
38:49
was on this finger, but
Carter
38:51
but they're all one right now.
SPEAKER_01
38:53
So the logistics are a little different, Zane, just to run right over that. Thank you. The logistics require, you
SPEAKER_01
39:00
you know, not just enough to say, we really like Patrick Brown, hope you mark us as number two, but it requires almost to treat them like they're a voter pool that
SPEAKER_01
39:09
that is newly available to you almost as if it was before the membership deadline To go and convince these people to become volunteers, to become donors, to actually show up and vote because it's by no means given that they will and capture them in a way that that is a little more energy intensive than would otherwise be required, because Patrick Brown would be the one marshalling them to get out the
Zain
39:31
Oh, go ahead. I don't finish this. Yeah, go ahead. Finish it. the other
SPEAKER_01
39:35
consideration which i don't need to spool out right now but the challenge you have if you're jean charé is that requires you to hug them pretty tight yeah
SPEAKER_01
39:43
you're hugging pretty tight a guy who's just been kicked out of the the conservative leadership race and so what is the consequence with other audiences has got to be one of those big considerations uh
SPEAKER_01
39:54
uh in the conservative campaign and you've got to talk about how you almost narrowcast that message to each this
Zain
39:59
this is why i find this such an interesting situation carter because you know regardless
Zain
40:02
regardless regardless of Jean Charest's pathways to victory, this provides us a very interesting case study of a strategy that
Zain
40:08
that the campaign would need to think about around how tightly to embrace Patrick Brown's endorsement, because it comes with potentially and allegedly, reportedly, many memberships associated with it. There also could be a calculus to say, fuck it, these members were for Patrick. There's no use for us. There's no upside to give them a hug of any kind in order to court them, because they're not here for us.
Zain
40:30
Carter, how would you be thinking about that decision right now if you were in the Jean Charest campaign?
Carter
40:35
I'd be saying 170,000 voters. We need every single one of them.
Carter
40:39
I'd be going with the Patrick Brown should not have been kicked out of this race line. I should be saying, you know, I'd be telling everybody.
Zain
40:45
So you'd hug him as tightly as you could. You'd pick that lane aggressively.
Carter
40:50
Listen, you hug him or you're dead,
Carter
40:53
right? There is no way you're competing with Pierre Pauliev if you don't have Patrick Brown.
Carter
40:58
There is just no way.
Carter
41:00
so you hug patrick brown you
Carter
41:02
you know all the way to the grave because that's
Carter
41:05
that's where you're going
Zain
41:08
okay here's the thing though here's the thing carter can i ask you a follow-up then then jean
Zain
41:12
jean charret you can
Carter
41:12
can do whatever you want there's a host i
Carter
41:15
got my ring back on oh so good i took some time
Zain
41:17
time sure heather's glad as well that uh decided i shouldn't i shouldn't have
Carter
41:22
have taken it off in
Carter
41:23
in hindsight that was tricky carter
Zain
41:25
carter here's the thing jean
Zain
41:26
jean charret clearly a a guy with a political legacy heading into this clearly a guy probably thinking of the political legacy this might be the last time he runs for office bear
Zain
41:35
bear hugging patrick brown a guy who not once not twice has been um criticized
Zain
41:41
criticized of ethical misdoings um do you actually want to bear hug him maybe even not even for the context of the race but for the context of as we were were talking about last time your legacy that how people think of jean charre if
Carter
41:57
you don't bear hug him then your legacy is the loser who lost to pierre paliette right
Carter
42:02
right like so if that's already written though
Zain
42:04
though that seems to be written already don't you think yeah
Carter
42:08
well i then go home go
Carter
42:09
go home to michelle to
Carter
42:11
to stop the campaign drop out like you've still got two more months of this shit right like does he want to show up in his blue blazer at the blue
Carter
42:24
oh my god jesus
SPEAKER_01
42:29
know i tried zane i actually have no way to mic him or like
Zain
42:33
he's offering some like decent insights like i thought that was a pretty good line then he starts getting into the alliteration which
Zain
42:39
which was funny for the first time carter uh we'll go to cory on this anyways
Carter
42:43
anyways he would just quit he
Carter
42:45
he would just quit he'd
Carter
42:47
and he'd be gone tory
Carter
42:48
tory what do you think
Carter
42:51
my toe feels great by the way so
SPEAKER_01
42:55
uh you're so my general assessment is if
SPEAKER_01
42:59
if this were a different race i'd have different advice but you're right it seems like if there's any chance at all of winning and it's it was always a narrow chance it always seemed improbable yep now
SPEAKER_01
43:09
now it seems borderline impossible it's
SPEAKER_01
43:11
it's that you get everything from
SPEAKER_01
43:14
from the brown campaign and i think i saw a poll where brown supporters were gonna go two to one to charrette instead of you know
SPEAKER_01
43:21
but you need you need like three to one four to one five to one and you've got to hope that they're in the right places where you can win on points so
SPEAKER_01
43:27
so i agree i think you hug him or you're dead but the risk of hugging him man
SPEAKER_01
43:31
man talk about winning ugly like if you if you hug him really hard and say patrick brown never should have been kicked out of this race yep
Zain
43:37
yep yeah this is a disgrace but what carter's
SPEAKER_01
43:40
patrick patrick brown has laid some pretty heavy accusations about favoritism to the poliev campaign right yeah so
SPEAKER_01
43:46
so imagine that you've got that to contend with you're
SPEAKER_01
43:49
you're going really hard on that you're saying it was totally illegitimate this was all to help give poliev the victory and
SPEAKER_01
43:56
and let's say you then end up losing by five percent so
SPEAKER_01
44:00
so you are really blowing the hell out of poliev's future
SPEAKER_01
44:03
future leadership here they're big asterisk on it makes It makes it very unlikely that the party is going to be able to move forward as
SPEAKER_01
44:09
as united as you kind of need to be, although you've certainly got many years to turn this around. So, you
SPEAKER_01
44:19
at a certain point, I think it's pretty clear that these are not folk who think on either side, yeah, I'd be okay if Sharae wins. Yeah, I'd be okay if Polyev wins. Like that doesn't seem to be their views.
SPEAKER_01
44:30
I think we can agree. I
Carter
44:33
figured out the problem. them they
Carter
44:35
they could blow up i was supposed to take one of the pills okay
Carter
44:39
okay i took two okay
Zain
44:42
don't think that's the problem okay well
SPEAKER_01
44:46
it's written on the bottle for a reason one
Carter
44:48
one pill dose i'm seeing that now do
SPEAKER_01
44:54
we need to call heather are you
Carter
44:57
are you okay i
Carter
44:58
i think i'm fine i can walk really well now
Zain
45:03
jesus christ okay i'm gonna put an end to this misery
Zain
45:05
cory finish this off and then i'll go to the end
Zain
45:11
uh who said this was a good idea by the
SPEAKER_01
45:14
i don't know i don't know he said he said
Zain
45:16
said he'd pop in and he was the first one
SPEAKER_01
45:20
he might pop i
Zain
45:21
thought this was gonna be you and i just chatting about shit and then he would show up and we'd be like oh yeah thank you for making this stop carter you look terrible you sound terrible thank you for jumping in and then he'd go but he's really here he's
SPEAKER_01
45:33
is in fact really here at least in in a physical sense cory
Zain
45:38
cory from a legacy perspective on charrette any consideration there or are you just playing for the race right now i
SPEAKER_01
45:45
don't think this is going to be jean charrette's legacy if he loses it his legacy is going to be he was premier of quebec for so bloody long let's not pretend otherwise Otherwise, it's
SPEAKER_01
45:54
it's not as though his obituary is going to lead with lost leadership election to Pierre Polyev. That's not that's not likely.
SPEAKER_01
46:01
However, I think that when we
SPEAKER_01
46:05
we think about him standing up and say, no, I want us to be a sane, moderate party, he wouldn't mind that being a part of his legacy. And so I get the sense he doesn't mind if he goes down in a place of glory is too strong. But, you know, standing on principle saying this is not where the party needs to be.
SPEAKER_01
46:20
although some of his comments have uh veered in towards the more extremist along the way so i
SPEAKER_01
46:26
i don't know i don't know maybe this is just the way that you
SPEAKER_01
46:29
you know the town slopes if you're in the conservative party of canada and
Zain
46:33
and we're going to leave that segment there moving on to our final segment or over under a lightning round carter we do this for you even when you're highly medicated carter
Zain
46:41
overrated or underrated in fact i'm going to actually ask you first and foremost overrated or underrated the calgary stampede carter a lot of politicians from across the country including justin
Zain
46:50
justin trudeau pierre polliev jean-chre everyone is here overrated
Zain
46:54
overrated or underrated the institution that is the calgary stampede as it relates to politics overrated
Carter
47:00
overrated you just go from one event to the next event saying the exact same asshole that you saw at the last event except
Carter
47:06
except now you have to wear jeans and a fucking hat unless
Zain
47:09
unless you're jean-chre you don't have to do shit then if you're blue
Zain
47:14
overrated underrated as it relates to the political upside the calgary stampede uh
SPEAKER_01
47:21
overrated you know the but it's not to say it's not important but the calgary stampede has become particularly for the people of alberta but i think also to a lesser extent to the various conservative parties uh
SPEAKER_01
47:32
uh like a mandatory if you don't show up it says something about you right so you got to show up if you're justin trudeau you've got to show up if if you're a contender for any of the various leaderships going on in the conservatives, it's just an expectation. And if you don't, you're going to hear about it.
SPEAKER_01
47:48
And so in many ways, it becomes, how do you maximize that time? And Carter's right. It tends to be the same people just going event to event.
SPEAKER_01
47:56
And you kind of wonder why you're giving the same speech to the same people on the same day so many times. But if you don't, you
SPEAKER_01
48:05
you hear about it.
Zain
48:07
Corey, I'm going to stick it on the Calgary Stampede, leave it there because you mentioned Justin Trudeau. So I want to talk about this. Justin Trudeau shows up to the Calgary Stampede for what seems like a day. One of the advantages of the Calgary Stampede as a politician, you could do 10 events in a day. You can literally go bang, bang, bang, look like you're everywhere,
Zain
48:22
deeply ingrained in it. He was probably here for a day. And the headline that the Canadian press wrote, which is certainly making some rounds in Eastern Canada, was that Justin Trudeau was mobbed by people. He
Zain
48:32
He was mobbed by folks at the Shahal fundraiser. He was mobbed by folks at a pancake breakfast. Overrated or underrated, that headline and that perspective for Trudeau as it relates to the audiences outside of Alberta, overrated or underrated for you?
SPEAKER_01
48:46
Can I just actually talk about the audiences inside Alberta for a minute? Sure. We've got time.
SPEAKER_01
48:51
Yeah. And maybe this is as much an education of people outside of the province. But people,
SPEAKER_01
49:00
Alberta Alberta elected a NDP government in 2015. The Liberals got 30% of the vote, I think, federally in this city in the 2015 election there too.
SPEAKER_01
49:11
There are a lot of people who are not blue
SPEAKER_01
49:14
blue-blooded conservatives. And even those that are conservatives, they tend to be a little bit more moderate. They're not all the screaming type that you see on Twitter all of the time.
SPEAKER_01
49:21
Calgary is a big city with big city problems. And even when we're all dressing up as cowboys, a shocking number of us have socially liberal views kicking around. And a shocking number don't hate Justin Trudeau, a man who, by the way, bought a fucking pipeline. So it's not as though he's got an awful lot to be sorry for when he's talking about the oil and gas industry here. So I think in some ways, when
SPEAKER_01
49:44
when we talk about that article, I was really kind of, I'm
SPEAKER_01
49:48
I'm always amused by how shocked the rest of Canada is that Alberta is not just people like Theron Flurry, right? Right. You know, this is a cosmopolitan city in a cosmopolitan province. You know, Calgary is the third most diverse city in the country. And
SPEAKER_01
50:05
And yet people are just bloody shocked all of the time that we're not just like extras from the cast of Dallas.
Zain
50:12
It's a great point. Carter, jump in on this. And really the heart of the question is, are
Zain
50:17
are you overrated or underrated that headline for Trudeau across the country? So I do want to discuss that as well.
Carter
50:23
I think it's underrated or overrated for the whole country, because I think that the whole country still thinks we're hicks.
Carter
50:29
And the reason they think we're hicks is because that's what we keep telling them.
Carter
50:32
You know, the city of Calgary has decided essentially to double down. I mean, notwithstanding
Carter
50:36
notwithstanding this climate emergency statement that was finally approved by city council a
Carter
50:42
a couple of weeks ago,
Carter
50:44
the city of Calgary continues to market itself as, you know, the heart of the new West, the energy of the new West. Right. We are the oil and gas giants. That's what we want people to think about us at a time when people don't think, well, the oil and gas giants, the Calgary Stampede, we didn't even touch on the animal cruelty elements. The fact that the Calgary Stampede continues to not change who
Carter
51:06
who the Calgary Stampede is, just
Carter
51:07
just Thalmar knows what the rest of society thinks about, you
Carter
51:11
you know, the way that we treat horses, the way we treat animals, the way that we, you
Carter
51:17
treat going back into a time into this fake history of cowboys and Indians is
Carter
51:24
is just further adds to our stereotypes. stereotypes and
Carter
51:29
that is just it's
Carter
51:30
it's insane at a time when we should be talking i
Carter
51:33
mean the stampede itself the stampede organization does a great job of
Carter
51:37
of working with the first nations populations of alberta and
Carter
51:40
and indian village and i think the championship the powwow championships on tonight i
Carter
51:45
i think they do that great but that's not what reads that's not what plays what plays is that we're old hicks
Carter
51:53
the rest of the country gets to write us off because we're not presenting sending an image to them of who we really are.
Zain
51:59
Torrey, as it relates to that headline, give me your take on that, overrated or underrated for the headline outside of the four walls of this place.
SPEAKER_01
52:07
It's overrated. I don't care how people feel about parties I support or not in other jurisdictions, because it tends to be much more local than that. Or Canada has very regional politics.
SPEAKER_01
52:19
Welcome to Canada, right? Right. Parties are either super popular or barely
SPEAKER_01
52:25
barely exist all over the place, depending on where you live. And so the idea that a prime minister might
SPEAKER_01
52:31
might not be loathe in
SPEAKER_01
52:33
in a city that you think he is loathe, even if you think that's interesting, that
SPEAKER_01
52:37
that might change your opinion of Calgary. It's probably not going to change your opinion of Justin Trudeau. For
Zain
52:41
For Trudeau. Corey, I'm going to stick with you for our next one. Are you in or out? And I'm surprised we haven't had a chance to talk about this. And this is on me. So we'll do a deeper dive on this. Are you in or out on
Zain
52:51
on the BC Liberals wanting
Zain
52:53
wanting to change their name?
SPEAKER_01
52:57
I think ultimately it's
SPEAKER_01
53:00
it's not something I have strong opinions about, Zane, but I'm probably in in the sense that the Liberal name is a bit of a millstone in Western Canada, including in British Columbia.
SPEAKER_01
53:13
And given that they in particular are a coalition at the provincial level of Conservatives and Liberals, so weird. when you work with BC liberals, by the way,
SPEAKER_01
53:21
I'll tell you this as a former federal liberal organizer,
SPEAKER_01
53:24
you run into federal conservatives and it's like, it's this thing that
SPEAKER_01
53:28
that you're just, you're not used to in other contexts here. Um, but yeah, it reflects the reality probably much better not to be called the BC liberals. Carter,
Zain
53:36
Carter, I know you've spent time there. I know this is a party, you know, well, uh, are you in or out on the BC liberals proposing to change their party name?
Carter
53:49
Yeah, one of those two.
Zain
53:54
Final question to you, Carter. We're going to spend time on it. Final question to you, Carter. Should we or should we not air this episode? What do you think?
Carter
54:02
Oh, yeah. This is one of our best pieces of work.
Zain
54:06
Corey, are we going to air this episode? Is this going to stay good?
SPEAKER_01
54:11
I mean, it would be a lot less work for me if we didn't, but we probably will.
Zain
54:15
Nicely done. We probably will. that's the level that's how we capstone this episode with the what are you doing carter we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on jesus
Zain
54:25
that's a wrap on episode 999.9999 of the strategist my name is zane belger with me as always cory hogan kinda with me steven carter and we'll see you next time