Transcript
Corey
0:00
Before we begin, I want to talk a bit about the news that came out of Kamloops, B.C. last week.
Corey
0:06
215 indigenous children were buried outside of a residential school, and there is no series of events that would make this understandable. No possible justification for this painful, horrific discovery.
Corey
0:18
If we desire reconciliation, there
Corey
0:20
there must be truth. And
Corey
0:22
And the truth is, children were buried by the dozen in a place they were forcibly sent.
Corey
0:26
Their lives were taken from them and their loved ones.
Corey
0:29
What has been confirmed in Kamloops darkens an already dark, dark chapter in our shared history.
Corey
0:36
We must shine a light on these events and keep them, and the shame, horror, and grief that comes with them, in our mind as we redouble our commitment to reconciliation. The Kamloops Residential School was a place that destroyed lives as a matter of formal government policy.
Corey
0:53
This horror twisted everything we know that is good and decent about education, education, weaponizing it to destroy families, to destroy culture itself. We
Corey
1:01
We are reminded once again why we refer to those who went through this system as survivors. Survivors of physical and mental violence for which there is no excuse.
Zain
1:15
This is the strategist, of course, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. Everything's the same. Let's just jump right into it. Carter, I rarely give you this opportunity, which is the one to start where you want, because there's so much to unpack with this story, both from what we learned Friday and this weekend, but also historically. So I ask you the question, where do you want to start? Where should we start as we talk about this?
Carter
1:39
Well, I mean, is it possible that something can be both shocking and not surprising at the same time. Can we both be shocked by the numbers and the specificity of this particular situation and not surprised at all given the residential school history of Canada that this is where we find ourselves, that this is where Canada has this history and has this this thing that we did, that we have papered over. I mean, I was in school when residential schools were still a thing. I was still, you know, it was still a part of our history. I didn't know anything coming through my schooling. And
Carter
2:22
And these are the words that you see over and over again from
Carter
2:25
from people on the Internet, right? We all weren't told. We weren't given any information. Well, of course we weren't. We didn't think we were doing anything wrong. wrong and
Carter
2:33
i think that that's the absolute horror of this is that uh we ask sometimes how good people can do such awful things well this is one of those moments where people who thought themselves good uh were doing something horrible and now how do you reconcile that how do you fix that and that's kind of where i am now is is you
Carter
2:53
you know the shock and the and and the not surprise that that I have about this particular situation gives way to, what now? What now? Because it's not like this is a new horror. I mean, to the point of not being surprised, this is not a new horror. This is something that has existed for a long time in our collective consciousness.
Carter
3:15
But arguably, there just hasn't been much done. And if we broaden the issue,
Carter
3:19
if we don't just make it about the residential schools or the missing and murdered Indigenous women inquiries, or if we broaden it and just talk about Canada's abhorrent history
Carter
3:30
with First Nations issues, that history connects
Carter
3:35
connects to our present, right? This idea that the history is in some fashion in the past is frustrating because, of course, it's not. It drags itself forward to today. It drags itself forward to today's politicians where I see too
Carter
3:50
too many people just
Carter
3:52
just simply kicking the can down the road because these are tough
Carter
3:55
tough issues. They're hard issues. They're not easily solved issues. And the things that we do do, flying the flags at half-mast, which I would argue is the very minimum, do nothing to solve and instead just kind of continue, I don't know if it's a charade, but some sort of lack of progress that we're making as a society. So that's where I am today, Zane. That's my moment of self-reflection that you've given to me. So thank you for that.
Zain
4:26
Yeah, Corey, I want to give you the same opportunity because Carter's put a lot out there in terms of can we be shocked and not shocked at the same time that this is not necessarily, you know, ancient history. You know, I bring up the year 1996. That's the last residential school closure in this country. That's not ancient history at all. That's recent history. We all know the year 1996. We can tether that to something in in our lives, you know, whether that be culturally or otherwise, giving you the same opportunity, where do you want to start? Where do you want to go? And then we'll kind of take
Zain
4:56
take some of the stuff you guys have put on the table and go from there.
Corey
5:00
Well, yeah, I mean, Carter
Corey
5:01
Carter is as old as Methuselah. So, you know, he talks about being around when residential schools were around, going to school when residential schools were around. We all went to school when residential schools were around. and um the
Corey
5:15
the the stories the the whispers the people in the community who talked about people who went missing and you know hope that the friend just ran away and went somewhere else but the fear that the friend was dead uh in in indigenous children i mean that was very real and i guess to build on carter's point some have gotten here this weekend some have been here for a very long time and
Corey
5:37
and what i think is interesting about a moment like this is that so often in our life we We hear about, you know, TRC, MMIW, these things seem like an abstraction. You know, we can conceptualize, yes, we need to be better as a society, but do we think about what we mean by that? Do we think about what we are being better than? And, you know, honestly, it's terrible to say, but the grievances of Indigenous communities often to many seem like a nuisance or worse, just unwelcome, or why are we bothering with spending time and effort on here? But then, dead
Corey
6:11
nothing justifies dead children. And I think one of the things that perhaps can come out of the news that came out of Kamloops on Friday is, we got to get serious about this, because there
Corey
6:26
there is no justification for what occurred. And if you can take that as step one, just
Corey
6:33
just think, just think for a moment.
Corey
6:36
You, I, Stephen, we can talk about this issue. We can get emotional about this issue. We can feel very bad about this. We can empathize. We can, we can worry about what this means about us as a country. We can worry about what this means as us as a society. You know, what does it mean that humans would do this to other humans?
Corey
6:53
but then we can turn it off you
Corey
6:56
turn on our xbox we can watch the mayor of east town we can go on with our lives the
Corey
7:02
communities this happened to the people this happened to the
Corey
7:05
the people who lost people they cannot turn this off they do not have the luxury of walking away about putting that horror aside or just forgetting about it for a day a week a year that's not a thing that you can do. And when we talk about reconciliation being a multi-generational journey, this
Corey
7:24
this is why, people.
Corey
7:27
What would you do if
Corey
7:29
if in your very recent past, your parents, yourself perhaps, you just had
Corey
7:35
had whole swaths of children go missing?
Corey
7:38
Turns out they're dead.
Corey
7:40
Do you think maybe you would carry some baggage with that? We
Corey
7:43
We don't talk in a real sense about these issues, but
Corey
7:47
but maybe we will after
Carter
7:50
I don't think we will.
Carter
7:51
I mean, I think we should. I think we should. I think we must. But I mean, I come from, you know, I used to live in a small town. I was living in a small town a
Carter
8:03
few years ago. And we had First Nations students bust to my daughter's school. and they came on a different bus they got dropped off at a different location they went in a different door this is a few years ago this is not and i'm sure that if we went to that school today this is how they would be loading up into and out of the school and there's you
Carter
8:28
you know it's supposed to be an integrated school there's not this isn't a you know this is there is a high school they're supposed to be going to high school together um they had one class together one class together and that was drama the
Carter
8:41
world is not the world is not working our world is not working we're not giving the
Carter
8:47
the same opportunities to people um for
Carter
8:51
for a number of reasons and i
Carter
8:53
i don't understand enough you
Carter
8:57
you know one of the i don't like federal politics to actually practice you know i'm not an actual federal political practitioner i find it very challenging because i always feel like when any issue you're dealing with every
Carter
9:08
every issue has long threads that come right back to the first nations issue right all kinds of issues that exist within the first nations community and i don't have the answers i don't have the uh the the the intellectual capacity to have figured this out and so i stay away because
Carter
9:29
because it's so much harder to
Carter
9:32
to actually do do it than to talk the game.
Carter
9:35
And I fear that everybody's just talking the game while ignoring the fact that the kids are getting off on a different bus, going in a different entrance and not taking the same classes.
Carter
9:45
And it confuses the hell out of me. How do we actually solve that? Because there's good reasons for all of those. There's really good reasons. The school board's not doing that to
Carter
9:52
to punish children, to keep them separate. There's good reasons being done by good There are good people that
Carter
9:58
are keeping those kids separate, and it's not working.
Corey
10:03
Well, there's no question
Carter
10:04
question it's Canada's original sin, right?
Corey
10:06
right? But even the words that you're talking about, these words like integration, you know, this is
Corey
10:13
is a very kind of Western European view of the world here, and none of us are indigenous. But when you
Corey
10:20
you talk to, you know, Indigenous people, Indigenous leaders, you'll often hear the conversation of two separate paths, walking them together respectfully, right? It's not a question of integrating and becoming one society. That was not a choice that Indigenous communities in this country got. Surprise, here's a bunch of people showing up at their doorstep and then, you know, bamboozling them into various settlements here. year. So all
Corey
10:44
all of these issues are complicated. And we lack some of the frames. And when we reach for frames, we tend to reach for our frames. And that is one of the fundamental problems, right? You know, it's let's think about these issues the way we want to think about these issues. But there are other ways to think about the issues. And I think
Corey
11:03
we have to do here, really,
Corey
11:05
really, and I'm not breaking any new ground is there's got to be this great unwinding, you
Corey
11:09
you know, we've got to get back
Corey
11:10
back to a foundational point where we can have a conversation about the
Corey
11:14
the two paths and to take these two paths in parallel we're going to have to walk back to
Corey
11:19
to where that that sort of last ended you know not literally but metaphorically and and sort of determine what we're going to do going forward it's
Corey
11:27
it's a very complicated issue which is the mother of all cop-outs always mother of all cop-outs always always but i don't
Corey
11:35
don't think we do it a service and i don't i don't believe either of view is doing this. And I'm not trying to throw stones here. But, you know, we often immediately jump to, well, we're just going to have to do better, or we're going to have to think better about these things. But, you know, again, that still foundationally is about us. And that's kind of the root of the problem. And so let's sort of also maybe take this as an opportunity to, you know, respectfully, thoughtfully, and on the timeline of the affected individuals, reach out to them and understand the issue from the Indigenous perspective a little more clearly clearly, because
Corey
12:09
because it's not a neat issue.
Corey
12:11
You know, it's not tidy. And I think we need to respect that as well.
Zain
12:15
I'm just going to add, I'll add two comments here, Carter, and then I want to go to you because Corey's brought up a few things. You know, I think I agree with what you guys have said here around, you know, one of the things that has been interesting in Canada is we've often used this cloak of pluralism and multiculturalism as a, as cloud cover for the fact that we live in in this harmonious society. We kind of purge a lot of the history before a certain date to kind of point to these policies of, you know, the cultural mosaic versus the melting pot and all those simple comparators to say that, oh, it's good here. It's a proven policy. It's a proven system, unique place in the world. And that self-adulation, I think, often gets in the way of this sort of introspection, which kind of leads me from what Corey was talking about between comparing the us, you, me, the three of us, as in regular folks, versus those that represent us, i.e. our governments, plural, you know, all of them leading to this one. Carter, talk to me a bit more about, you know, the, if I can use this term, the burden of responsibility between us as Canadians and folks that are, you know, engaged
Zain
13:23
engaged on this issue or want to be more engaged on this issue and the need to be more engaged versus those that represent us, i.e. our governments in terms of where the burden lies for action and activity on this.
Carter
13:35
Well, I'll do that, but I want you to come back to the mosaic versus molting pot at some point, too. Hit on
Zain
13:41
on that now. Might as well. Go ahead.
Carter
13:44
think that we are lying to ourselves when we call ourselves a cultural mosaic. I think that that's a giant lie that has been told for a few decades as we move along. long. I think that, yes, we have retention of baseline, you know, ethnic groups or cultural groups or religious groups. We are allowed to retain those. But the truth of the matter is that if you look at generations of immigration, it follows very similar patterns. You know, You know, when Eastern Europeans came over to Canada, they were treated differently because they were different. And when, you know, South Asians are coming over to Canada, they were treated different. So first generation, there's a very common first generation story of, you know, immigration into Canada. Then it gets to second generation and it starts to water down a little bit. And third generation waters down a little bit more. fourth generation it's really difficult to tell where
Carter
14:46
where we are because the cultural breakdowns we talk about maintaining
Carter
14:50
maintaining this mosaic but actually we do very
Carter
14:53
very similarly to the united states melt the cultures into our into our melting pot um you know the the various cultures that have moved to canada are uh for lack of a better word i'm going to say assimilated um you know we do allow allow there's all kinds of different individual cultural expressions that are still vibrant and exciting um throughout canada but things move towards the mean things are moving towards the mean and that generation after generation happens and one of the the lies that i think we've told ourselves as canadians is that we allow everybody to retain their their their culture and their their backgrounds. And the truth is, people like to be like other people. People want to fit in. People do try and strive to fit in. And, you know, that
Carter
15:46
that can be me taking on different elements of other cultures, or it can be that other culture taking on different elements of my culture. But those cultures do come to a mean. And that's
Carter
16:00
that's an uncomfortable truth sometimes, times because we don't that's not a truth that we tell ourselves but isn't it safe to say that so many of these problems that we hear are creating so many of these issues that we that we are struggling with are because we're basing them on uh you know lies that we tell ourselves lies that that are to make things a little bit more comfortable um like even just the small lie of being completely shocked and outraged right that's a that's a lie that we are essentially telling ourselves because anybody who's been paying attention knows that this and cory articulated it to us in kind of our chat before you know this is if
Carter
16:36
if you if you didn't know this was the situation if you didn't know the kids were dying in residential schools you just weren't paying attention you
Carter
16:41
you just weren't paying attention the fact that this particular number this significant number has been found at this particular time doesn't change the fact that they were all there you know that that we knew that this was a a
Carter
16:51
a genocide before you
Carter
16:54
you know and the word genocide again cory was my my teacher on this um so i'll give him credit but you know the the way that we we approached the
Carter
17:02
the First Nations culture and the First Nations people fits
Carter
17:06
all the criteria and to find a mass, you know, a series of graves. I don't think we should be shocked. But the lie that we told ourselves before this weekend was that we knew the story.
Carter
17:17
And the truth of this, we didn't.
Zain
17:22
Corey, any reactions to that? And then I kind of want to move on to the the government's plural question well
Corey
17:28
well i'm i on the melting pot mosaic question i completely agree that the mosaic was just a canadian feel-good rebrand of melting pot it's i i struggle to find a legitimate tangible difference between the two approaches and i i think fundamentally well you could say the mosaic allows you to quote unquote allows you to keep your culture longer i mean in practical terms there's not a huge difference in the american approach versus the the canadian approach perhaps with the exception of a little bit more tolerance from the Canadian one up front but that's probably just patting ourselves on the back you know I mean I think it's tough to point to anything tangible there and I agree with Stephen on this front and I also agree
Corey
18:10
you know well I guess here's where I disagree it
Corey
18:15
it might not be fake shock right because I don't know everybody was paying attention I think a lot of people were not paying attention And I think when we're talking about stories we tell ourselves as Canadians, one of the stories we tell ourselves is that we did better than the United States, you know, America, you know, going
Corey
18:32
to war with indigenous communities, you know, from coast to coast and just, you know, it was a genocide by army. And here in Canada, we did so much better, we like to tell ourselves, right?
Corey
18:46
right? But the reality is, our
Corey
18:49
our tools were just a little different. And I am glad that we are reckoning with this now as a society, and we're looking to move forward with Indigenous communities on our own paths in a better way. but it's um it's
Corey
19:06
it's going to be a long bloody journey and i think in these moments
Corey
19:10
we've talked about other things uh like black lives matter or palestine and how quickly they can come off of the headlines and how sustaining this is is difficult and these
Corey
19:23
these generational problems they require generational solutions and the politics we have is not well built for that You know, it's built for the news cycle.
Corey
19:31
And it's going to be interesting to see if we do move beyond the
Corey
19:36
the lower end of the flag. But if we do, I think the caution is there are no quick solutions. There's no easy win here. You know, there's no program
Corey
19:43
program to be started, check to be written that is going to resolve Canada's dark history with Indigenous communities. It really is going to take a long time. But I guess if I can circle back to that shock moment, maybe the shock's not feigned. But if it's not, I think it tells you just how far we've got to go on shared truth before
Corey
20:04
before we can get to reconciliation.
Zain
20:07
Yeah. And I think, you know, extending on that a bit, there's a tweet online that I found extremely powerful by Dr. Carrie Chichu from the University of Ottawa around whose, and I use this term burden, whose burden is it to educate, right? Right. And she said, you know, referring to the media request she was getting, I have no energy to extend your request for a way to teach events unfolding in Kamloops. Your requests are triggering. I'm living, grieving this horrific atrocity in my spirit and most indigenous people are right now. This knowledge is too heavy and we need you to stop. I found that to be incredibly powerful because it also showcases that, you know, at least in this moment in time, it's unfair to ask those that are either
Zain
20:49
either reliving this trauma going through this horrific atrocity to come and be like you know let's open the door and give you you know some time to explain to us why we should care again or why this matters again and i feel like you know just the way she's articulated it makes that uh
Zain
21:03
uh makes that point very very powerfully carter anything to add before i jump into the government side no
Carter
21:08
no let's jump into the government side well
Zain
21:10
well i asked you the question originally and then we got on the mosaic comment let's let's go to the government side.
Zain
21:15
Why? There's the simplest, broadest question. Take it wherever you want. Because we're not going to do strategy here. We just want to try to do perhaps a bit of analysis if we can. Why has this, to Corey's point, generational solutions, is that the heart of it? Is that the fact that governments have been built for moments in time responding to issues, the micro, the cadence of what electors want and what mandates they can win and which are most feasible? Or is that an oversimplification in explaining why governments have been so massively unsuccessful on action, perhaps generating heat and light success, action less so?
Carter
21:57
Well, let's start off with the fact that government does act on First Nations issues every day, right? Right. So there's an action that occurs every day on First Nation issues because there's resource development. There's there's treaty issues. You know, the the various ministers have dealt with First Nations have been busy. They've been busy doing lots of busy work and doing lots of busy issues because there's no shortage of problems. I mean, it can be, you know, it can be, you know, a good example could be, you know, the lack of potable water on a on reserves. Right. So we're working on that issue. We're working on that issue. OK, that's a great thing to be working on. We can work on that. We can work. We can do the missing and murdered indigenous women issue. We can do that. That's that we should do that. That's exactly right. But these
Carter
22:51
these things mask, you know, if we were to put it into our language, right? If you continue to deal with the tactics, you never get to the strategy, right? And this is where there is a fundamental level. There's a fundamental frame that we're not dealing with because what we're dealing with is these tactical frames. And if you don't get to the foundation, if you don't actually get to the issue of the The foundational challenges of First Nations issues, you can look busy all day long. You can be doing something in First Nations all day long, but you never are getting there, right? You're never actually addressing them. And this is where I
Carter
23:29
I think governments have been purposefully distracted. You know, it is easier to set up First
Carter
23:36
First Nations programming at universities. It's easier to put up, you know, to figure out how to generate
Carter
23:43
generate more postgrads. It's easier to deal with trying to get water. I mean, these are all valuable, very valuable things, but they're still not addressing the foundational problem. The
Carter
23:54
The generational inequities that have been created over
Carter
23:57
over time in the country of Canada. We
Carter
24:00
We are ignoring those by
Carter
24:03
by dealing with these tactical issues. And, you know, it's not quite as simple as if you're losing on the issue, you know, bring up the process. It's something very similar, though. And that is if you can't deal with the foundational issue, deal with the tactical. And we've seen that time and time again in government. And I think that that's actually the great distraction the government is bringing to this issue and other issues is you can still be extremely busy. You can be doing good work without ever addressing the real issues.
Zain
24:39
Corey, do you want to add a little bit more to your response from last time regarding government involvement
Zain
24:44
involvement or governments in this larger equation? equation?
Corey
24:50
It's not as though governments aren't aware that there are big challenges that need to be addressed. And just because it's a generational problem with generational solutions doesn't mean you don't start. But
Corey
25:00
But to truly start, to actually build a strong foundation on which government can make a durable and lasting commitment to reconciliation, you've
Corey
25:10
you've got to have some tough conversations. And governments don't like to have tough conversations. Tough conversations Conversations are not vote winners. Tough conversations, things that make me feel bad, things that make me think maybe perhaps I need to reassess the way I was taught, the way that I have lived. That tends to be the kind of thing that leads nobody back to glory in a political sense, right? Right. And so governments, governments
Corey
25:38
governments then tend to find themselves reacting to moments like this. And just as Stephen was saying, dealing more with the things that you can feel good about, that you can say, hey, listen, aren't we great as Canadians? You know, I just it's all kind of bullshit, as we all know. But aren't we great as Canadians? Here we are investing in clean water. Well, why was that an investment we needed in the first place? Right.
Corey
26:01
But, you know, there are many people who are sincerely trying to work to make things better and sincerely trying to work with indigenous communities to make them better on the terms that indigenous communities set. I don't want to diminish the good work that's being done on that front. And there is growing realization across the board that this is that this is something that is going to require wholesale long term societal changes. But I
Corey
26:24
guess I'll just throw this out there. I mean, this is part of why the fight in Alberta over curriculum is so charged. You know, my daughter, Orange Shirt Day, really, really impactful to my daughter. I don't know if it was something that schools were doing when your daughters went through, Stephen. No.
Corey
26:44
But, you know, just understanding the children taken away from their communities. And kids
Corey
26:52
kids sort of understand that fundamental injustice, right? They get it. They get emotional about it. And that emotion is awkward. It is really awkward for parents to deal with. But it falls under that category I was talking about of tough but necessary. But then
Corey
27:07
then you see people say, well, I don't want that awkward conversation. I don't want curriculum to be like that. That's making curriculum political. And, and so you see governments very quickly backing away from these things, as we're seeing here in Alberta. And, and, geez, I don't know where I'm going with any of this, but to say, every
Corey
27:25
every all of this stacks on everything else. And unless we're willing to be, you
Corey
27:30
you know, brave as a society, and our politicians are willing to have those tough, necessary conversations, rinse
Corey
27:37
rinse and repeat, we're going to be having, we're going to be doing another somber strategist 40 years from now. with basically just different specifics, but the same general tragedy. Carter?
Carter
27:48
I have an idea.
Carter
27:49
And, you know, none of
Carter
27:52
of us are prime minister, so this may not work. But, you
Carter
27:57
could we elevate the First Nations' relationships? I don't want to call it even First Nation issues right now. But one of the things that drags these issues backwards and forwards is that everything's political. Everything
Carter
28:09
Everything is put into the political frame. name what
Carter
28:13
happens if we do like instead of doing a singular minister what if we did something where we had a more cooperative commons uh experience right where um the it's
Carter
28:26
it's almost like a commons committee uh but smaller where there's a uh a minister and a second minister and a and a third third party minister, all charged with actually making shit happen. Because removing the political from this is important, because it's easy to make this into a political football. It's easy to play to people's, you know, inherent racism. And I don't know if that would work.
Carter
28:54
I mean, I don't know what's going to work. But I guess that my point is this, I return to, if
Carter
28:58
if we don't try different things, we're going to continue doing the same thing.
Corey
29:03
Carter, this is exactly why so often petitions from first nations go to the governor general or the queen right right i don't want to deal with your parliament and and this goes back to what i was saying about like
Corey
29:13
we we tend to try to manage
Corey
29:15
manage these things within the context of the structures that we have built and the governments we have crafted uh you know and when you talk about where
Corey
29:22
where there was a real true divergence and then it was just okay we're just going to do things this way and you're all going to have to get on board it really did come down to those treaties that were signed by the the queen so as
Corey
29:31
as much as i i know many canadians i myself have been one in the past who's like come on that's not a practical thing the queen is not going to do anything for you like the symbolism of that is rooted in in something real too and um i
Corey
29:45
i just i feel that you know i i feel education is so foundational to this uh you know both in the child and adult sense uh having these having these tough conversations about why things are the way they are and why they seem so oddball in certain cases. I mean, the Indian
Corey
30:04
Indian Act is crazy. And so much of what we've been dealing with as a country is fallout from the fact that we tried to just force these structures on. So I'm just very hesitant about forcing another structure.
Zain
30:21
And I mean, as you guys mentioned, education, so many great resources available at this moment in time that i think people can access including you know carter you want to jump in sorry yeah
Carter
30:31
yeah but fewer in alberta you
Carter
30:33
you know like great resources great resources uh across the country except in alberta where um you know a big part of the curriculum review has been to remove uh uh you know the the emphasis on first nations and a um a significant portion uh like even just the simple the simple thing about removing the land acknowledgement by Premier Kenney. You know, he's just, he makes it, he makes it us versus them style of politics. And it's always very easy to make First Nations them. It's very easy to do that. And, you know, I'm just, if you don't do the small things, well, I mean, I'm kind of on both sides of this because I'm saying we get distracted by the smallest things and that stops us from doing the foundational. But I'll tell you, when you're not doing the small things or the foundational, then you've got a real problem.
Zain
31:26
Yeah. I will just add on the education side as a quick plug. The Canadian Children's Book Center Theme Guide on Reconciliation, amazing set of books for kids in early learning, which I know you guys know is a passion of mine. University of Alberta has
Corey
31:40
has an online course on this subject matter as well. It's
Zain
31:44
All righty. We're going to leave that segment there. there
Zain
31:47
let's go to our next segment seamus amos no no no no you're
Corey
31:53
you're gonna need to bridge us from that to amos we're gonna need something in between uh
Zain
31:58
uh you guys want to talk about
Zain
32:01
uh mark carney uh candidate for edmonton center uh stephen carter as you'd recall uh he's running for the liberal uh nomination edmonton center uh more than likely we'll get a claim one would would imagine um i don't
Carter
32:13
don't know i mean i'm seeing the prime minister's name being floated around with don ivison i mean what a loaded bullshit that is it's going to be a carney for sure what
Corey
32:23
what an incredible nomination contest that'll be that
Carter
32:25
that would be yeah ivison v carney i
Carter
32:28
i think you do not see mcjesus on his sweater like created
Carter
32:31
created all kinds of problems was
Zain
32:32
was that was that a good move or not just want to ask you that right now of
Carter
32:37
canadians like like hockey and mcjesus was one is one of the the
Carter
32:43
big names like it's not like mcdavid mcjesus every it's a nickname it's a nickname for god's sake it's fine everything's fine okay
Zain
32:52
that's good you almost ran out of your infrared way on your one factor carter nicely done uh okay so mark carney's at this committee pierre pollard is doing uh as what you can call a steven carter would say standard skippy behavior um you know try to box them into things like uh did you agree with your leader i referring to justin trudeau and his decision on uh northern gateway uh carney says yeah you know i wasn't there i don't you know i'm not part of the party but it was the right decision and then he goes into stuff like whoa but your firm brookfield owns a bunch of freaking pipelines in brazil and uh the uae do how do you reconcile those two things so you know he's doing and what he does um carter any harm to mark carney uh for his lack
Zain
33:38
lack of performance so to speak at uh at this committee i
Carter
33:43
i don't think so i mean i think that he you know he he's not good yet um he's not good at this yet uh you know his his his personal videos and some of the stuff that he's done with the book tour has kind of led you to go well he he could be better he could it'd certainly be better um you know i think that even your interview with with him zane you had to elevate him you had to help him get to a good spot and that's fine i mean that's that's what interviewers are supposed to do you know it's it's your job to make the interview interesting not the interviewee necessarily uh but mark carney's not good at this so putting him up against pierre polyev whom i think we all can recognize i
Carter
34:23
i dislike tremendously like cory or i going against against Pierre Palliev would be entertaining. Mark Carney, who doesn't understand his theatrics, who doesn't understand the tools that he brings to the table, just isn't going to be good
Carter
34:37
because he's used to the Goldman Sachs boardroom, not Pierre Palliev's committee room.
Zain
34:46
Yeah, so Pierre kind of says stuff like, Davos elite, Mark Carney tells industry committee, he opposes Western Canadian Pipeline Project. Corey, will this hurt him at all? Like, I mean, he gave Mark Carney-like answers, which he tried to explain, you know, being very articulate through a central banker lens, how the economy worked. And of course, when he said that, Peer jumped down his throat and said, oh, thanks for teaching me how the economy works. Do you want to teach me how job growth works for Albertans, et cetera, et cetera?
Zain
35:16
Any harm coming from this? Does this taint the brand? Does this do anything in your mind?
Corey
35:21
So if he's smart, it will be a wake-up call. Stephen is right. He's not good yet. But let me give a little bit more nuance
Corey
35:27
nuance on that. He's not good at this yet.
Corey
35:29
He was a central banker for two different countries. He's lived a different life. He's had different kinds of committee experiences to date. I just imagine if Pierre Polyev was acting this way to a sitting central banker, he would come off as the craziest shithead ever. Yeah.
Corey
35:48
Mark Carney didn't realize that he was, you know, he's now down on the streets and it's a little bit more of a knuckleboxing fight out here. And it's they don't play fair and they're not playing for truth. So he's got to realize that he needs a different set of tools. And if he falls back on the tools that served him well in his past jobs, he will not get his future job. You've got to be much pithier with the soundbite. You've got to be able to see when you're being led down a garden path. I think the example of the economy, oh, thanks for explaining the economy to me, is a good example. By the way, yeah, Mark Carney can explain the economy to any of us. He's probably
Zain
36:25
probably one of the most qualified
Corey
36:27
qualified people in the world to talk about the economy. So this
Corey
36:31
this is another lesson. You know, even if you are 100% correct about something, if they just drip it with enough sarcasm, it'll make it sound like you're the asshole. So he's got a bit of building to do in this sense. And hopefully he came away from that committee thinking, okay,
Corey
36:46
okay, well, I'm not in Kansas anymore. And do I think it will do lasting damage? No, I do not think it will do lasting damage because I didn't actually know anything. I knew he was there, but I didn't know anything about it. I suspect based on Stephen's facial reactions, he knew very little, too. And without you, we would have been lost. I suspect that most Canadians will not have heard about his presentation at committee.
Zain
37:08
Well, let's talk about something.
Zain
37:09
Oh, thank you, Carl. Let's talk about something most Canadians have heard about. Let's move it on to our next segment.
Zain
37:14
Seamus Amos. Oh! Oh, this
Zain
37:18
this is this has no questions, except one. Corey, have you reconciled the statement yet? And B, maybe let me add a B side to this question. Does
Zain
37:29
Does it matter that it was in a cup?
Corey
37:33
it matters it was in a cup and the fact that it was in a cup helped me maybe at least come up with some plausible theories but this is we are in the reckless speculation mode here when we talk about getting assistance so let's just let's just put a couple of scenarios on the table and let's just sort of talk through the possibilities how does
Corey
37:51
couple of scenarios yeah one
Corey
37:53
one is that he is uh this is how he gets off just loves to show his dick on parliament tv it's a possibility it's not actually the one that i think based on the way the statement was written another is that he is just he's just um like either going through some stuff and he's just totally wrecked or distracted as a human being and he just doesn't know how to do basic human things right now this happens people can fall
Corey
38:19
fall into depressive episodes and not be able to get out of bed uh sometimes i have to imagine that also manifests as not being and able to turn off your webcam or or have the presence of mind to know that you should turn off your webcam so i think that's a real possibility and one that we should we should consider as having potential weight because then the statement still it holds together right uh another one is he's a drug addict right and i don't say that to be funny but like he's just so fucking out of it you know he's coming in from runs and he's bare ass naked and he needs to relieve himself and he thinks well i don't want to i don't want to miss all of this good parliamentary coverage so i'm I'm just going to pee right here, in which case maybe a substance abuse problem is the purpose. But I think that one also is possible, but probably not probable. And these are my best scenarios at this point. I can't think of anything else that fits these boxes here. It's something that we will watch. But, you know, ultimately,
Corey
39:16
ultimately, I guess I will say all
Corey
39:19
all of them, I
Corey
39:21
I might have sympathy for them in many of those cases. So I wonder why they're not sharing the details with us, besides maybe just personal privacy matters. Because
Carter
39:30
Because you skipped over the most plausible one. I mean, you mentioned it and then you ran right past it, which is that this is how he gets off. This is what he likes to do. I said this in an earlier episode, 934. I said it earlier. I said it last week. I was saying, or last episode, I'm saying it now. This is what he likes to do. and this is why he needs to get help because this is not manifestation of some other problem this is the problem when you're peeing in a coffee cup during committee that you are chair it was one he was chairing was it not like that's a problem right you're the chair you can take a break you can go to the bathroom um he did it in a cup in
Carter
40:16
in a this this is the problem and i said he got off on it in episode 934 in the last episode of 934 i said this is what was you know i told you guys this was crazy and this is what's happening this is the problem that he needs to seek help from it's not another excuse he's not depressed he's not got a drug addiction he is getting off on this and he needs to figure out a way to get around it
Corey
40:44
is this just an elected official thing like you remember the jerry bants when he peed in a cup We've talked about that recently, I think. I mean,
Carter
40:51
mean, it doesn't appear to have enough times that we can apply it to all elected officials. There doesn't seem to be a frequency.
Corey
41:01
Well, Jerry Bantz was a candidate. I don't think he was ever elected.
Carter
41:03
elected. Oh, that's right. He was never elected.
Corey
41:05
That's good. Do we have anything else on this? Are we good? What else could there possibly be? What else is there? You got anything else
Zain
41:11
Let's move it on to our next segment.
Zain
41:12
segment. Let's move it on. I've got no insight. i mean after carter being as definitive as he is just not even giving any daylight
Carter
41:20
daylight he's bringing up all of these different options blah blah it could be this it could be that or it could be a simple thing that's right that's staring us right in the eye when we're looking at the photographs when we're listening to the to the peeing this is
Carter
41:36
is this is what it is there's
Zain
41:38
there's nothing hey hold on hold on actually you you've actually uh uh
Zain
41:41
uh brought a question segment this is you did you did you did you did so
Corey
41:45
so i don't i don't believe i have trouble with that one i just don't believe that's actually the the situation oh you're
Carter
41:51
you're so naive okay am
Corey
41:53
i because i don't think so
Carter
41:55
so you're the type of guy that believes the stepsister was actually caught in the dryer i
Corey
42:05
what that means i'm
Corey
42:07
i'm really upset with myself that i do
Corey
42:10
listen i don't want to get blue here but the guy was not he was not standing at attention as these things were happening right like there's no sense
Carter
42:19
sense there's no there's aroused there are so few
Corey
42:21
few times that we actually can physically see if somebody is aroused and this was one of those times and we didn't see that i
Carter
42:29
i cannot believe that zane has taken us here this is all zane's Yeah.
Zain
42:33
It is based on Corey's much more broad interpretation, which is how politically wise is it for the conservatives to, they've been hammering on this, politically wise is it for the conservatives to go as ham on this issue, knowing that one of, if not all three of the scenarios Corey posed could be pretty
Zain
42:54
pretty sympathetic to the general public about MP Amos.
Carter
42:59
no one's going to be sympathetic to this. I mean, I think you go big on it. But this is one of those things where one person's failings does not paint the party. The party is not going to be impacted negatively
Carter
43:16
negatively by this, I don't think. But then again, I could be wrong because I'm actually right now believing that Zane doesn't know what the stepsister stuck in the dryer thing is. And I
Carter
43:27
I think everybody knows. Everybody listening knows exactly what I'm talking about. So, Zane, you
Carter
43:32
you know what I'm talking about.
Zain
43:34
Is this a thing I should or should not be Googling?
Corey
43:37
Don't Google it. But
Corey
43:39
it's a TikTok meme. This is why you should know why it is. We
Corey
43:43
We did forget one other possibility here.
Corey
43:47
He's a fucking idiot. He's just a big dum-dum.
Carter
43:52
You know what? That might be Occam's razor right there.
Zain
43:56
It's good. I'm glad we got to the bottom of it. Let's move it on to our next segment. Our next segment, extended expiry date. Corey, out of nowhere, the expiry dates have been extended. Turns out they weren't real in the first place. On AstraZeneca, that's right. Health Canada has extended the shelf life of the AstraZeneca doses set to expire by Monday, i.e. tomorrow. They've extended them by a month, so that means that it has extended the expiry date of roughly 45,000 AstraZeneca doses, with the vaccine had an original and expiry dose of May 31st. They now expire July 1st. Corey, is this a big deal? Is this just an extension of shelf life? Does this make you question expiry dates on everything and anything? Have you already been doing that prior to? And does a three-second rule apply? Okay, all those questions for you. Well,
Corey
44:47
Well, expiry dates have always been bullshit in the food industry. I kind of assume that in the pharmaceutical industry, there was a little bit more to them. But if you thought getting AstraZeneca was the most Gen X thing ever, you were wrong. Turns out getting expired AstraZeneca is about to become the most Gen X thing ever. Do you think people
Corey
45:03
people will embrace it like
Zain
45:04
the first round, by the way? Oh,
Corey
45:05
Oh, I think so. I think the fact it's expired is just going to give us a whole new wave of Breakfast Club gifts. So I'm just hoping that it gets into my arms sooner rather than later. And I'm happy to take your expired AstraZeneca, Ontario. Send it our way.
Zain
45:22
Carter, expired AstraZeneca, you into it?
Carter
45:24
This is expired yogurt right
Carter
45:26
right here. I'm going to eat this right now because I don't care. Because you know what?
Carter
45:31
Still good. good. I can eat this. That's the same way I feel about the AstraZeneca.
Carter
45:37
I don't care. Whatever it takes, right? I just want to be healthy. I can eat my yogurt.
Carter
45:43
I don't care. Most of these expiry dates are made up to
Carter
45:47
to allow more product to be sold.
Corey
45:49
You got to keep in mind, Carter was born at a time when if you didn't smoke at Tim Hortons, they'd come over and hit you. You
Carter
45:55
You had to. You had to light up on the way in yeah
Carter
46:01
that's right that's right my mother smoked when she was pregnant it was the way that it was back in the 60s baby so i mean i i'm not the least bit concerned about it i think just put it in our arms gen
Carter
46:13
gen x is ready gen
Carter
46:15
gen x is standing ready let's go uh
Zain
46:18
uh cory you know is there anything to be said around the dose mixing right now you know, getting the AstraZeneca first round, folks getting the other mRNA vaccines the second round. Is this going to be a communications nightmare for governments, plural, in your mind, putting your communications hat on? Or do you feel like this is a pretty simple, if you got AZ, take it, if you didn't, like, how do you think they kind of navigate the communications warfare that is perhaps upon them?
Corey
46:46
Well, I'm glad you added the communications thing, because I was about to have to inform you, I didn't get a medical degree between Thursday and sunday night so
Corey
46:53
so i don't know i don't know if it's a good idea to mix vaccines not i know there's a lot of studies out there i suspect that the messaging can follow a very similar messaging line which is the right vaccine is the one that's offered to you and i'll tell you as a guy who got astrazeneca i'll
Corey
47:07
i'll take another astrazeneca but if somebody offered me pfizer i kind of think that was kind of cool too you know mix and match why not maybe i'll get the best of both worlds maybe the coverage will be uh
Corey
47:17
uh will be just right once i get both my mrna and my traditional maybe
Carter
47:21
maybe you'll You'll turn into Peter Parker and you'll have special powers. That's what you're actually thinking.
Corey
47:25
That's my sincere hope.
Corey
47:28
Maybe it's the only thing that will keep me from peeing in a mug in the future. It's who knows. But I
Corey
47:33
I actually don't think the communications challenge is particularly difficult on this. I would be curious how many people have gotten AstraZeneca, which was the one that had more caveats, would
Corey
47:43
would be saying, well, but I don't know if I want to get a Pfizer now. Like, I don't know if I want to mix and match. I suspect that's a pretty small group of concern. And if there are AstraZeneca vaccines out there as well that are available, sounds like you've just got to kind of get a Sharpie and black out the old expiry date. Well, then I think we've probably got no real worries here. Where you'd, you know, the limited group you'd be worried about are the people who would dead end on one dose of AstraZeneca. And I just don't think that's a real concern.
Zain
48:11
Carter, any final comments to add on that front?
Carter
48:13
No, just pump that stuff into me. I'm ready to go.
Zain
48:17
All right, let's move it on to our final segment. bit. Our final segment are over under in our lightning round. Guys, we've got so little to cover. But let's try to cover. Yeah, actually. But Stephen, we do it for you, right? No one has asked for this particular segment except you and we do it for you.
Carter
48:31
No, this is why I'm here. I'm here for the short answers. I don't like to fill time. I don't like to just waste the time. I like to get to the point and just kind of answer the questions you ask every single time.
Zain
48:43
Okay, Carter, Carter, let's ask you this question. Overrated or underrated, this new lab leak theory that the U.S. is now investigating, this, of course, now, you know, started as a, I can say this right wing conspiracy theory at the beginning of the pandemic that, you know, if you haven't heard of it, that COVID was leaked through a Wuhan virology lab that is now not saying is gaining mainstream acceptance, But the predominant theory proposed by the WHO that this was cross-contamination from animals to humans has not necessarily been proven in the meantime. And the U.S. is now asking for open up an investigation that Mark Garneau and Justin Trudeau have agreed to in sense of moving forward. Is this overrated or underrated for like the politics of COVID going forward?
Carter
49:33
Overrated. I mean, it doesn't really matter where it came from. And we're going to go to the people that brought us weapons of mass destruction to tell us where the Wuhan virus came from. I don't think that that's necessarily going to work. I think that the reality is COVID-19 came
Carter
49:47
came from somewhere. We all got it. And this is something we have to deal with in our reality. Where it came from is really less relevant to me as a person. Maybe it has some scientific value, and I hope that that comes out. But I think you're really missing the point here, and that is the the u.s intelligence community is very focused on uh giving us the ufo report on june 1st and that's what i'm really focused on the the chinese virus or the the i don't trust them at all on any of that but the ufo stuff is going to be really fun cory
Zain
50:17
cory overrated underrated in the politics of covid this lab leak theory i
Corey
50:22
think it's underrated and you can see stars aligning to to much bigger problems in our relationships with china i don't just mean mean canada but i mean the western world in the next bit and if there is a situation and look
Corey
50:37
let's be clear like this was supposed to be fringe conspiracy theory stuff but it looks
Corey
50:41
there's at least credible reason to check this out and see whether there's something here including people from this wuhan lab having
Corey
50:48
having coronavirus symptoms before the virus was supposedly found you know this is this is uh this
Corey
50:54
this is definitely something that we're
Corey
50:57
we're gonna have to watch here because the geopolitical ramifications of such a bomb like you're never i
Corey
51:02
suspect you'll never prove something like this and i doubt well i shouldn't say i doubt because i would have doubted this before a week ago when the report came out but you know is this is this a homemade virus probably more likely it's just something that was found and then was in a virology lab seems to be the kind of thing you would do in a virology lab but what the fuck do i know clearly nothing based on even just this news uh but if there is even that sort of doubt and this suspicion that this this virus came to the world as a result of negligence, incompetence, malice, whatever from China.
Corey
51:35
I mean, holy cow. Let's talk about the trillions of dollars that have been lost. Let's talk about the millions of lives that have been lost. I don't know why I led with the dollars. Let's talk about all of the bad things that occurred as a result of COVID. And if you are ultimately able to pin those on the state of China, and if you are China and you feel under attack because people are even implying this, because again, let's assume that nobody will will ever know with 100% certainty. That's not going to be good. That's not going to be good for relations anywhere. And we already had Donald Trump and the Republican Party kind of throwing about these accusations pell-mell a year ago. What if this becomes the standard line of the Republicans going forward in the United States, and all of a sudden, you
Corey
52:17
you know, with no additional information, just what we have now, and all of a sudden, there's another Republican administration? How is that going to color how they approach China going forward? And what does that mean to the rest of us i
Corey
52:27
mean this this is a big deal it's a big deal even if we learn nothing more than what we learned right now which is there is some question about this particular matter because unless there is a silver bullet the other way that no we are absolutely wrong nothing with this lab
Corey
52:42
this is going to be looming out there forever this is this is where conspiracies come from
Zain
52:47
carter do you want to change your answer no
Carter
52:49
no i mean i think that corey's made a number of good points, but I still think that from my point of view, all of that is a different problem. I
Carter
52:56
I think that the question around COVID is still overrated.
Carter
53:00
overrated. It doesn't matter to me where it came from. It doesn't matter if it was released from a lab. It's just something we have to deal with now.
Zain
53:07
Corey, I'm going to stick with you on this one. Canada's federal government is opening the door to ending its mandatory three-day hotel quarantine for air travelers. This, of course, at the same time where the health minister is refusing to say whether they'll ditch the program overall. all the
Zain
53:20
the lifting of the mandatory three-day hotel quarantine for air travelers cory in your mind overrated underrated i
Corey
53:28
don't i don't know how it's rated i don't know how people feel about it i think it's probably fine
Corey
53:35
give it a c plus okay
Zain
53:36
okay so now you're getting into your shenanigans stephen carter please give me the classic overrated underrated on lifting the three-day hotel quarantine uh
Carter
53:45
uh it's a c plus issue uh fucking
Zain
53:48
fucking god you're just you're just you're just annoying me now carter no i mean it
Carter
53:54
it doesn't matter to me i mean the world's under control i mean this whole thing uh you
Carter
53:59
know it's all good okay
Zain
54:01
okay i'm gonna stick on i'm gonna stick on travel uh prime minister justin trudeau is set to attend the g7 leaders summit in person carter
Zain
54:09
carter the The political sort of damage
Zain
54:11
damage here for Justin Trudeau, is it overrated, underrated in your mind?
Carter
54:17
Underrated on the damage. I think this is an opportunity to start to signal that the world is getting back to normal. And it's being, you know, you can say it's getting back to normal because of actions that were taken under your government. We got through this. And this is an opportunity to celebrate. I'd start attending everything in person if I could at this stage. If
Zain
54:37
If you were the prime minister, you'd legitimately tell him to do that?
Carter
54:40
Oh, yeah. I think that this is the time. I mean, I think that there's something different between going to a set of meetings with world leaders who are most likely vaccinated or hosting a 75,000 person a day festival.
Carter
54:55
I think that those are two different things. I
Zain
54:57
I wonder what the latter could be. Corey, overrated or underrated the political damage or downside for Justin Trudeau for attending the G7 leaders summit in person?
Corey
55:08
think it makes fine and it makes sense. This is an opportunity for the leaders to start talking about that next chapter, which really is there. They're, okay, we're all getting, well, not we're all, but this is the G7, keep in mind. And most of the G7 nations can say we are getting vaccinated and we are ready to start reopening in various fashions on various timelines, sure. But, you know, it's happening at this point. And we are going to need those signals from our leaders of the
Corey
55:36
the return of normalcy. And maybe this isn't like everything's back. Maybe when we get to June 11th to 13th, there's still a bunch of plexiglass
Corey
55:43
everywhere. Maybe it's something where the aides are wearing masks. We know the leaders have been vaccinated. Maybe that's fine. But those signals will be important, because it's not like we're going to get to a moment that's this, well, unless you live in Alberta, where there's this light switch that gets flicked, and all of
Corey
55:58
sudden, everything is back to normal. The psychological damage that we're carrying on these matters, the fact that governments have been so quick to open wrongly in the past, you're
Corey
56:09
you're going to have to signal this time's different. And actions like this are an important part of that.
Zain
56:14
Corey, I'm going to ask you the final question, start with you here. The Bloc failed to muster unanimous support for a Commons motion backing Quebec's constitutional changes. In order to pass without debate, the motion needs to face no vocal opposition from MPs. But it did. It faced one from former Liberal Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould, now an independent LNP who yelled out nay. How big of a deal is this that the unanimous support for the backing of Quebec's constitutional changes did not go through unanimously? Is that overrated or underrated that it did not go through?
Corey
56:49
I think this is part of a slow burn, where people had hoped this wouldn't be an issue. Well, let's just say leaders in Parliament, we hope this would not be an issue at all, and they could keep their heads down, and they could all move on with it. But we are seeing polling now, where a supermajority of Canadians outside of Quebec are opposed to this, and a super majority within Quebec are in favor of this. And that's a level of contention that's going to be difficult to manage.
Corey
57:14
manage. And their best hope of managing it was this quick strike. I don't think Canadians are going to let them get away with that. I think we're going to have to have a conversation about this particular matter, this notion of Quebec amending the Constitution. And
Corey
57:28
I find it fascinating that you have premiers like Jason Kenney speaking out in favor of this. I didn't see any provincial breakdowns in the Leger polls that showed 65% of Canadians outside of Quebec opposed, but I have to – you know, we're all Albertans. We live in Alberta. Does anybody on this podcast think that Alberta was somehow going to be more supportive of the notion of the nation just being entered into the Constitution?
Carter
57:54
No, it's really troubling. It's really difficult to see. I mean, Jody Wilson-Raybould, I mean, this is a good move for her politically. I mean, she gets to oppose the prime minister again. She gets to take a popular position, and it gives her an opportunity heading into an election where, as we know, independents do very poorly. So smart move politically, I think, for her drags
Carter
58:20
drags this out. I mean, I think that every political leader has indicated essentially federally they just don't want to deal with this in an election period. For the reasons that Corey's just describing, the numbers suck. You don't want to have an issue where you have to take one position to win Quebec, and you have to take the other position to not win, you know, to win outside of Quebec. Doesn't it seem
Zain
58:41
seem like they're being forced, will be forced to do that? Isn't that exactly what that polling, at least in the abstract, seems like it's going to force them to do that? Only
Carter
58:50
They've got to kill it. They don't want to
Corey
58:51
it. So this is – I'm not a big fan of talking about, quote, unquote, elite conversations versus non-elite conversations. But this is something that the leaders in parliament have all basically implicitly
Corey
59:04
We're not talking about this. This is just a thing. We all agree we can support it. We all agree we're going to move on. We don't want this minefield out there. It could be bad for us as political leaders. It could be bad for the country. whatever their you know rationale whether it was crass and calculating or it was about more noble angels they've decided they don't want this the rest of the country when they think about it is not so keen not
Corey
59:26
not so keen to have this not be a matter of conversation and the longer this goes the more likely it is those caucuses start to break a little bit and you have a couple of mps maybe on the conservative side first saying you know what this is kind of bullshit and then you have a couple of liberals who say you know what we're supposed to be the party of national unity here what the hell is going on and ultimately it's not hard to imagine a scenario where that hegemony starts to break yeah
Corey
59:51
and that's not you know none of the leaders want that because then all of a sudden we might be talking about this during an election campaign yeah
Zain
59:57
yeah time time would allow the cleavages to kind of form in the practice to happen carter i'm going to hold you accountable before we round it out here the fact that it did not pass unanimously overrated underrated underrated
Carter
1:00:11
underrated because it's it could it's not gone away i
Carter
1:00:16
i shouldn't have answered you should have just brushed me off like you were supposed to do what's wrong with you we're going to leave it there that sometimes like to answer your questions because i have a lot of respect for you zane thank
Zain
1:00:25
thank you so much thank you so much carter we're going to leave it there that's a wrap on episode 934 of the strategist my name is zane belgry with me as always steven carter cory hogan and we'll see you next time