Transcript
Carter
0:01
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Zain
1:17
They're a disappointment. They're a bad team. They need to be blown up, and this is just the impetus for them to do that.
Zain
1:30
Stephen Carter, do you have your one fact about basketball or sports in general? What you need is a big
Carter
1:33
big man and a man who can distribute the ball.
Zain
1:36
That's great. Thanks for that. He's not wrong in that regard.
Zain
1:40
Anything else on basketball? Listen, one second here. No, we're done. No,
Carter
1:43
No, we aren't. We really
Corey
1:46
State Warriors. That's all I'm going to say. That's all I'm going to say. You know what? They're the Hillary Clinton of this
Zain
1:50
this series. Nice. Very nice. But before we get into Hillary Clinton, guys, our first segment, there's no even, like, higher inclination in my voice because we have to talk about this. The people's elbow. Oh, come on. The people's elbow. The elbow of the people. Well, do you know what that is? Well, we're talking about Elbowgate. We're talking about Elbowgate, but the people's elbow. It was a magic
Zain
2:09
Whatever. It's a move by The Rock. Watch some wrestling. Let's talk about the people's elbow and
Zain
2:13
and Elbowgate. And I know there's so much to tease out from what's happened over the past week. Is there? There is. Okay. Let's just go ahead.
Zain
2:22
ahead. Do you want to be over with it? No, no, we've got to keep going. We do. We've got
Carter
2:26
got to power through. People want to know what part of Ruth Ellen Brousseau the prime minister brushed with his elbow. What
Corey
2:33
What I think I'm curious about is just how meta this analysis is going to be. So is it going to be analysis of the act, analysis of the analysis, or
Corey
2:40
analysis of the analysis of the analysis? You've
Carter
2:42
You've got to do the third one. We are doing the third
Carter
2:44
one. Yeah, for sure.
Corey
2:44
sure. Based on our timing,
Zain
2:45
definitely doing the third one. But before we get to the analysis of the analysis, let's talk about each
Zain
2:51
each person involved in this situation. Let's start with Justin Trudeau, Corey Hogan. Let's start with Justin. Yeah, okay. What was going on?
Zain
2:58
sophisticated of a question, by
Corey
3:00
by the way. Listen, I have a two-year-old, so I know exactly what was going on.
Corey
3:04
Got a little huffy, wasn't getting his way, walked
Corey
3:08
started flailing his limbs. People accidentally got hurt. This
Corey
3:11
This happens when you have to deal with two
Zain
3:12
two-year-olds. Stephen Carter, he was wrong, right? Ultimately, there is blame to be issued to the prime minister. Let's start there just to ensure we have a baseline. Yeah,
Carter
3:21
Yeah, I mean, Jean Chrétien choked a protester, but he didn't walk out into the protest to find the protester to choke him.
Corey
3:29
That was going to be my point, too.
Carter
3:31
too. Yeah, so this
Carter
3:32
this guy, this is what the
Carter
3:35
prime minister, he didn't walk three feet.
Carter
3:39
30 yards, 30 meters for those younger folks who are listening to the podcast.
Zain
3:45
explain the situation to anyone? I don't think so. I
Carter
3:47
I don't think so. I
Carter
3:48
everybody's seen the video by this point. I mean, so he walks across and then he has to push through to get to the whip, which is the whole point, right? Thomas Mulcair and Ruth Ellen Brousseau are being all so cute trying to keep the whip from being able to go up and do whatever whipply duties he needed to do.
Carter
4:05
isn't it cute? We're slowing him down. And the prime minister thinking he's what? What does he think he is in this particular – like what role is he playing? Sergeant at arms? is he playing you know i'm gonna play the role of mediator was he
Carter
4:20
am i remembering that correct
Corey
4:21
correct no i don't know that was a senator oh
Corey
4:23
yeah he's the balance like he might have been a bouncer he
Zain
4:25
he may have been so he the baseline is that that trudeau was wrong in the situation cory
Zain
4:31
a sense of what
Zain
4:32
what you would have done at that moment in time if you saw your prime minister if you're the liberal party if you're one of the staffers if you see him walk across you're like oh shit this
Zain
4:41
be an issue what's
Corey
4:42
what's the first thing you do there was a There was a quote in the Calgary Sun where Kent Hare was asked about this and his response was, I thought, oh, this is going to be interesting.
Corey
4:55
think it has to be your response, right? I mean, you know nothing good is going to come of this altercation, which is part of why I don't understand why he went over in the first place. yeah so to sort of flesh out the story here you walk over there you you kind of in a huff are mad that things are not progressing on your timeline which is not a good look for any prime minister because you have effectively unlimited power except for the fact that they have a very modest power to delay to delay and debate maybe don't rob them of that if you want to look like you're kind of the man of the people you claim to be but let's not get sidetracked on that then you move back you know elbows hands grabbing i can't wait in a certain sense to talk about the opposition because it is we'll get there
Corey
5:36
but i want to yeah
Corey
5:38
i don't know if i'm the liberals i'm thinking that's a that's a bad move i think that if you're in the house and you saw that you probably knew there was going to be trouble yeah right away and in any normal circumstance the liberals would have lost this round because frankly
Corey
5:54
frankly it is a bad look and uh And if it had just been that, I think they would have come out with a lot of mud on them.
Zain
6:00
Carter, the reason I asked that question is what you would do if you were a staffer working for the prime minister. Because Corey is right. It is a bad situation for you. And what they ultimately did end up doing was – and I'm going to count here – issue about 29 apologies on behalf of Justin Trudeau. There's like – so I'm being – there's hyperbole there. But there was so many apology after apology after apology. What was there?
Zain
6:24
a lot of non-apology. We can talk about the sincerity of the apologies. But, Carter, what would have the strategic approach on your end been had you been advising him and you saw that moment? What's your first phone call in that regard? Or what's the first thing you do? Honest
Carter
6:35
Honest to God, my first phone call would have been to someone more experienced than me.
Carter
6:39
No, seriously. Seriously. I would have picked up the phone and said, what do you do?
Carter
6:43
Like, this is happening. And I'm trying to think of an example. I know these things happened before when I was in government. And you'd be like, oh, fuck. Now what do you do? And you pick up the phone and you call somebody. In fact,
Carter
6:54
fact, it did happen in the leadership when Alison Redford's mother died.
Carter
6:57
You know, I picked up the phone and called a few people like, what do you do?
Carter
7:01
You know, your candidate's mom just died. What
Carter
7:04
What are you supposed to do in a campaign? Now,
Carter
7:06
Now, this isn't the same, but
Carter
7:07
but it is something that you would. I've never seen a situation like this where the prime minister is screwed up like this on such a big stage. And I mean,
Carter
7:17
mean, sure, it's got some precedent with the Jean Chrétien choking thing. um but
Carter
7:22
but i can't think of anything the same i mean the biggest thing that harper did was wear that horrible yellow sweater one time that
Corey
7:28
that might have been worse i mean this was this was a small screw up on a big stage right i think well it wasn't
Carter
7:33
wasn't okay but it wasn't spun as a small screw up yeah
Corey
7:36
it first came out by any of you know yeah i i think that one of the things that we can dance around or address directly is uh the notion of what he did and whether or not it it reaches a level of horror that the opposition i'm sure we're going to get there we're talking about i mean here's here's the basic facts you're not allowed to just grab somebody's arm that is technically assault okay it's
Corey
7:58
it's also technically theft if i take a stapler off my neighbor's desk at work which
Corey
8:03
did by the way i'm
Corey
8:03
i'm sorry about that yeah
Carter
8:04
yeah and i was a little angry about that but it's heather stapler so it didn't work out so badly for me no look the
Corey
8:10
the fact of the matter is there's kind of like the the reasonable person test here like uh what is that saying you know there is wisdom in the common man and the conversation that was happening at every kitchen table in this country but was not happening amongst the chattering class the political class the punditry the media was that's
Corey
8:28
man they should shut up about that they should nut up there are bigger problems in the world than being elbowed accidentally yeah
Corey
8:34
right yeah no politician could say that because justin trudeau says that he looks insensitive like he's diminishing it he went the
Corey
8:40
the other way and we
Zain
8:41
we need to talk about the way
Corey
8:42
way he went but then the opposition rather than sort of realizing that was going to be most people's normal reaction freaked the fuck out so that the the analogy that i've been using is like if you were at the bar right and you're sort of all waiting around for drinks and some asshole elbows their way to the front they're
Corey
9:01
they're a tool but if somebody just snap shows on them and just loses their mind and starts screaming and distracts the whole bar calm down buddy we
Carter
9:09
we have a new villain
Carter
9:10
just happened to me we were in london on the weekend yeah someone
Carter
9:13
someone pushed into another person person lost his mind on the tube yeah
Carter
9:18
and all of us were like oh my
Carter
9:20
my god who's this guy losing his mind because you know what yeah you run into people on the tube this is what happens this is real life real life you occasionally bump into someone occasionally even your elbow hits someone's breast at
Corey
9:32
at the grocery store somebody
Corey
9:34
somebody is talking to the cashier kind of being obnoxious about the cashier why aren't there more lines open yeah that guy's annoying he's bothering everyone else in line somebody
Corey
9:41
behind me in line shouts shut the fuck
Carter
9:44
fuck up moving along i'm busy here new
Corey
9:47
new villain new villain so guess what this story doesn't end with justin trudeau being the bad guy and canadians talking about him not having good judgment or good temper because there was a new villain we'll get to the new villains really really
Corey
9:58
teasing the new villain oh my god
Zain
9:59
god but i want to talk about the apologies and the apology on top of the apology stephen carter what did you you make of that the first one which was effectively just him stumbling through putting words together oh and then the follow-up to that which was not actually significantly better in terms of content and then the follow-up to that so as
Zain
10:18
as a strategy the apologies what do you make of it i
Carter
10:20
i mean you had to apologize right
Carter
10:22
right he physically touched someone who didn't mean to touch in the house of commons generally speaking uh we're not touching people in the house of comments uh generally
Carter
10:33
but so you know an apology i think was in order right i should not have done that okay so you
Zain
10:38
you would have advised of that one
Carter
10:40
one apology sure three you know it got a little out of hand it
Carter
10:44
it got to the point where he was apologizing for apologizing you know before the apology that he was supposed to do that day this is getting more
Zain
10:50
more better he's just getting more metaphor he was
Carter
10:53
was apologizing because he had taken away from the story about the apology he was supposed to do that day and and right the koba
Zain
10:59
koba kata maru apology
Carter
11:00
apology oh my god it's like is this really happening and and so yeah
Carter
11:08
yeah too many apologies too many apologies it was it was it was the quintessential canadian moment of too many apologies and it really went too far what
Zain
11:17
what do you what do you make of it cory was it was it more than quintessential was it poor strategy could he have played it better i mean he he played it poorly at
Corey
11:27
that's how he ended up there
Corey
11:27
we're beyond the fact no but the the thing is it's all relative to the guy next to you zane and yeah and i can't give him a grade without grading the other guys and look
Carter
11:37
you gotta grade this on the curve tom all cares let's
Corey
11:40
let's just do it yeah get into it goes full mall care as as you put it i did i have put a full mall care he went full mall care started screaming about how pathetic it was i believe um you know you touch a woman or whatever like the most epic i'm sorry it was like soccer dive ask uh ruth ellen berceau's reaction to
Corey
11:59
to it i'm not i'm not i don't want to go down this road because
Corey
12:02
because yeah the prime minister was wrong okay and he shouldn't have done it but look the
Corey
12:08
the the notion i had to leave the house i was so So Flustered came back. I just think that was so too
Corey
12:15
Especially when she was engaging in juvenile politics. And then the media, and then the media, I'm going to just blanket cover them, but not all of them started saying, like, I'm so aghast by the prime minister. And I
Corey
12:25
I think in particular, like, Susan Delacorte just, like, unspooled about this, right? And it just became almost too much of a reaction. And then all he needed to do to look reasonable was apologize, right? And so in my opinion, he – after
Corey
12:41
after the initial act which makes him king idiot, there
Corey
12:46
there was a new emperor very shortly thereafter. He realized that this situation was nuts. It was absolutely nuts. Everybody looked bad and the winner was the one who extracted themselves as fast as possible and that's what he did. Right.
Corey
12:57
Right. And that's what he continued to attempt to do over the next couple of days. I think it was too much myself but – and let's not – When you say too
Corey
13:05
Trudeau's – Let's not put too much into a Nanos poll that came out that showed his poll numbers actually rose. But I have trouble faulting the guy when his poll numbers actually rose.
Zain
13:19
The response of Tom Mulcair. I actually want to talk about that for a second in the NDP. There is this thing called dome syndrome, right? You're in a moment. You act reflexively. You feel like this is what I need to do in that moment. I'm capturing the greatest value I can did they just fall prey to that I don't mean to simplify it but what do you think caused that sort of reaction because at the back of your mind he's like I can fucking kill this this is a moment right well they all
Corey
13:47
all believe their players in a play of great importance and this this was an overly oh they're all overly dramatic moments and this one just got dialed up to 11 and I think they they didn't take enough time to go and look look out into the crowd and see what the audience was reacting to because this
Carter
14:03
this is bigger than just the reaction in that moment on this particular incident this is this is the same theatrics that we see in question period right
Carter
14:10
right just it's just taken to another level right they're always looking to score a point they're always looking to score a goal and if you try and do that every single time you wind up uh not
Carter
14:22
not figuring out the bigger the bigger strategy for this particular their game you gotta get your rotations right you
Zain
14:30
you're getting killed with
Zain
14:31
with the death lineup i mean you know but
Carter
14:34
but you have you have to put yourself in a position uh where it's the strategic goal not the daily knock okay so and they went for the daily knockout they thought they had the knockout punch lined up it absolutely delivered in that moment and the media bit and the media bought on it and it was going to be great and then the rest of of Canada said, eh, we
Zain
14:54
we don't give a fuck. Tell me this. You did an exit poll of the NDP opposition leaving the room. Do you think all of them would be like, we fucking nailed that?
Carter
15:01
We are going to go up seven points today. Really? Today is the day we go up seven points because... They thought they killed it, right? Well, and keep in mind, the media also said there was media reports immediately after that said the Teflon Justin Trudeau era is over. It ended right now. Mark it down in your books. This is when it happened. It was as bad as Stephen Carter Trump trump prediction it was
Carter
15:24
was that kind of bad that's
Zain
15:25
that's good he breaks it up again just to dilute
Corey
15:27
dilute it i like it but uh what steven highlighted with his little it was as bad as steven carter trump is kind of the stick the knife into your own heart approach the prime minister took which immediately took all of the piss out of it like if the prime minister had stood up and been like no no no wasn't that bad he
Corey
15:42
he would have actually probably escalated it and he would have comes a time
Carter
15:45
time when you you've apologized enough stop
Carter
15:48
beating the guy up so
Corey
15:49
so but to the point about the ndp and the strategy spot on i
Corey
15:53
would also say this was we're picking on the ndp but the conservatives were just as bad they were the first ones i saw who were like this is assault this is criminal
Corey
16:01
they used the word molestation
Corey
16:03
the way oh my god guys here's the thing nobody
Corey
16:06
nobody has ever made themselves
Corey
16:09
like you do not get to be prime minister by proving you're the biggest victim nobody has ever been like you are the biggest victim you should get the top job this
Corey
16:16
is not this is not logical this is not sensible what was going on in their heads does not compute to me okay it fundamentally is not a way you elevate yourself into a position of power you do it by looking like you deserve to be in a position of power you know how you do that by not giving any number of fucks when bad things happen to you you brush them off and you say i'm better than that this doesn't make any sense and to you know zane to your point on cbc steven to your point tonight
Corey
16:43
they need to be thinking about more than just the day in front of them they want to be thinking about what kind of ndp do i want to convey myself as and like this horrible victim approach is like a caricature of how many uh you know people think about the ndp like oh i'm so hard done by i'm poor i need the government to give me handout like it plays into the worst concepts of what the ndp are not up not
Corey
17:05
not up we'll leave it hold on we won't leave it there because car
Zain
17:07
car i want to go to on this no i want to go to okay was there a point to be scored quite simply you said question The question period is about – Ruth Allen Brousseau had a point to score. And did she – she didn't get it. She didn't
Zain
17:16
get it because – What was it? What was it?
Carter
17:19
What the hell were you doing? You ran right into me.
Corey
17:22
Yeah. What the hell were you doing? Fundamentally, her beef is valid, right? Yeah. I mean I don't want to say it's not. It's just the reaction to it was so over the top. But
Carter
17:31
But if she had been kind
Carter
17:34
kind of a more stoic victim, she probably would have done much better. Yeah.
Carter
17:39
Yeah. Right? Right. This the as soon as someone cries victim, they're less believable. Well,
Corey
17:46
that's a grim testament that makes me reevaluate everything I've just said, Stephen. But the fact of the matter is
Corey
17:56
was an opportunity lost. Yeah, the NDP. I truly explain what the opportunity was. I truly believe that if instead of Tom Mulcair chasing after the prime minister screaming, everyone
Corey
18:07
everyone sort of looked at each other like, what was that? And tried to go on with their day and then, you know, the minute they were out there – like the media – this story makes itself. The media would have been all over this without the theatrics, right? And then gone out and – Without the gasoline, yeah. Well,
Carter
18:20
Well, and that's a bigger point. I mean many times getting out – you're the one who accidentally puts your own fire out. Right.
Carter
18:27
When you – when there is a story that is going to go, get the hell out of the way.
Carter
18:32
the hell out of the way. They should have
Zain
18:32
have recognized that this one did not need them in it. No.
Carter
18:35
No. It is one of the fundamental rules. It is such a true rule that the West Wing has even covered it. But this is the reality. Get out of the way of a story that's going to break.
Zain
18:45
It's just Justin Trudeau apologizing into a vacuum over and over. It's ultimately on
Carter
18:49
on him. Can you imagine if they just kind of got out of the way and let him suffer in his own apologies? Have
Corey
18:55
Have you ever tried to
Corey
18:59
apologize to your wife and have it just not take it? Be like, okay, fine. Like, no, but I am sorry. Like, no, fine.
Corey
19:06
No, we're over it. We're good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that it
Corey
19:09
it would have been very difficult for Justin Trudeau to
Corey
19:13
to fall on a sword nobody was offering him. Like, the media would have just eaten him alive. But instead what happened was everybody started evaluating it relative to the crime. Like, was the punishment worthy of the crime? And by the way, and I'm not saying they didn't say it, but I had a hard time as an observer understanding exactly what the ask was from the NDP. Like, okay, what's the remedy you're proposing? Surely it's not that he resigned. Surely it's not criminal charges. which is, is it? Yeah.
Corey
19:38
Yeah. Do you want to say that? Because I don't think many people would follow you there. So it became a lot of sound and noise. And it's like, okay, but he's apologized. You don't think it's a sufficient apology? And I'm
Corey
19:50
I'm not saying they didn't say it, but it just got totally lost. But
Carter
19:53
But that's probably cranking it up so high. If you don't crank it, you don't have to worry about everybody going, well, it's not that big a deal. It was a deal. It
Carter
20:02
It wasn't the Turkish parliament having a fistfight, but
Zain
20:05
but it was a deal. I'm going to give you a different role for a second there, Carter. You're a strategist for some of the media companies out there. Did they play this to maximum exposure or was there an angle that they could have taken for enhanced leverage? Suppose you're working on them and you're like, what is
Carter
20:19
actually – You talked about the bubble, Zane. You talked about the bubble.
Carter
20:22
bubble. And there are no people who are in a greater bubble than the media. And the media write things and what happens is sometimes those things are picked up and they become real.
Carter
20:30
But so many times the media pick up things and they're like, oh, this is huge. This is a great story. story and no one cares because they're in the bubble they don't
Carter
20:38
don't know what's going on they don't know what real people care about because they're trapped in the same bubble
Carter
20:43
bubble that the politicians themselves are trapped yet
Zain
20:46
yet knowing what your stakeholders are as as a media company knowing what your objectives are do you think they played it right in this regard no well
Corey
20:53
well here we are talking about we
Zain
20:54
we are we are so i'll maybe it's just a very simple linear question the answer is yes but i'm curious to get your take on it no
Corey
21:01
no look this is not this is not trump where the media is sort of just spinning something that is appealing
Corey
21:07
just you know because it is so salacious right maybe it's a little salacious i don't know i do think that they dramatically overestimated how angry canadians would be about it i don't know that they overestimated how interested canadians are in it because by god that's all anybody i knew wanted to talk about
Corey
21:24
for the next couple of days right and and ultimately that is the job of news right and And I
Corey
21:32
don't know. I mean, I
Corey
21:34
I don't know. I think you're being a little hard on the media, Stephen. I do think that they – You
Carter
21:38
You know how much I love the media. Oh, yeah.
Corey
21:39
I think that they reacted
Corey
21:41
reacted the only way the media could react, right? Conflict, controversy, crisis. What do you want today? And that was a pretty good conflict. How could you write any other story? Well, you're going to – like I just picked on Susan Delacorte. I don't know. Could she write the opposite story? I think Coen was – Andrew
Carter
21:56
Andrew Coen was basically on Twitter saying, the world has lost its fucking mind. I
Corey
22:00
I know. And I loved him for that. And I
Carter
22:01
I thought he was exactly right. And he had his hand or his fingers on the pulse. And there was a lot of other people losing their shit from the media, pushing
Carter
22:10
pushing it. And, and Coyne was like, okay, I think we have to talk about it, but
Carter
22:15
but let's not make this thing crazy. If
Corey
22:16
If we're going to make this, like, Andrew Coyne love fest, I'm in. I love that guy. But let's be real.
Corey
22:23
He's also a pretty easy vote for contrarian, right? Like, he was going to pick a position like that. He always does. So let's
Zain
22:32
let's talk about the final stakeholder group, I think, in this incident, which is the general population, the Canadian voters, right? Corey's right. They were interested, but largely, I think, the last poll came out. And let's not pay too much attention to them. It's one poll. One poll. But this one, 70% of people said it did not affect the way they thought of it. Like it was a non-issue. So even if it's up, down popularity, the non-issue factor, that's good news for Trudeau. But ultimately, is there anything to be made of that right now, Corey? Well,
Corey
22:59
Well, yeah. I mean, we were talking about serious issues that day in our parliament, and all anybody talked about was the non-issue. So good work, opposition. Good work, anybody who cares about democracy and government, right? I don't want to pick on people too hard, but it was, at the end of the day, a total sideshow. And I accept sideshows as a political operative if they have some sort of discernible outcome. But like, who won
Corey
23:24
won there? Like, I don't even think Trudeau won. I really don't. No, no. I think this was just like a lost week. Is that the ultimate
Zain
23:30
ultimate conclusion, Carter? No one
Carter
23:32
one won? We have talked about ultimately
Carter
23:35
ultimately the people who decide whether something is a thing or not is the general population. The general population looked at this and said it's not a thing.
Carter
23:43
The gaffe was low. And the gaffe, for those who are not regular listeners, is the give a fuck factor.
Carter
23:50
People just did not give a fuck, ergo
Carter
23:52
ergo we move on, and it is over. over we care the pundits care people who are listening to this will care they want to know why i wasn't bigger yeah general population the the the countless of millions that don't listen to our podcast which is staggering to me why wouldn't they right
Zain
24:10
tell a friend by
Corey
24:11
by the way the 23 minute mark on an issue they don't care about i think we've
Corey
24:15
we've given a due
Zain
24:17
carter said ergo we they move on ergo we move on as well our next segment weathering the populism Corey, the
Zain
24:24
the Donald Trump machine. You've said it once. You've said it again. It could be real. And now there's significant factors in front of Hillary Clinton that
Zain
24:32
that she has to face. Today we heard about the report that says, yeah,
Zain
24:36
yeah, she did kind of do some fucked up shit with her email server.
Zain
24:39
Bernie Sanders, you know, supporting Debbie Wasserman Schultz's opponent. She's the DNC chairwoman.
Zain
24:47
There's stuff coming down and Donald Trump's growing support. You are now leaning your head into the microphone. phone explain
Zain
24:52
explain to me let's just talk about what the perfect storm and this is i know you wanted to talk about this yeah what the perfect storm against hillary clinton could be because it seems like that momentum for that storm is slowly but surely growing right
Corey
25:04
right let's look at it the same but different if you're donald trump and
Corey
25:09
and um you're saying i need x y and z to break my way what
Corey
25:16
what isn't breaking your way right now okay
Corey
25:20
democratic candidate who has not locked up the nomination in a technical sense has in a practical sense let's be real yeah
Corey
25:27
but is actually getting in an increasingly tense fight with somebody who controls enough loyalty in the party that that's a real problem for you okay you're
Corey
25:36
you're under federal investigation right
Corey
25:40
right two You have managed to coalesce your base, which is what you needed to do, right?
Corey
25:45
right? The Republicans now are by and large on Team Trump, 85%, 90% in polls have said, yeah, I'll support that guy. Yeah.
Corey
25:56
What possibly more could you ask for? Right.
Zain
26:00
been a great three
Corey
26:00
three or four weeks. I mean, everything's breaking Trump's way. And I think that some of that is just luck. Some of that is just what's in the air right now. Now, I said this a few months ago, but I'll remind people, far
Corey
26:12
far more people participated in the Republican primaries than have in the Democratic ones. Forget Bernie Sanders in this sense. You think that he's a machine that's driving votes and getting people engaged? The Republicans are fired up.
Corey
26:25
There are more registered Democrats in the United States than registered Republicans, but more people, by a significant margin, voted in those Republican primaries. And it is not just because they are contested, okay? It is not. the democratic ones may not have been as contested but they certainly carried a lot of intensity too now if
Corey
26:44
if you've got this base of people who are already energized they are now going to vote for you and your opponent is flailing about in the primary fighting with her own party still
Corey
26:55
don't know what more could you possibly ask for and if you're hillary clinton and let's talk about that perfect storm say you end and get the nomination and there's an ugly fight in philadelphia
Corey
27:04
philadelphia at the democratic national convention and the party doesn't come together say debbie wasselman schultz is up there on stage chairing the thing yeah and half the audience starts booing her which is which
Zain
27:15
which is totally no i mean that's
Corey
27:16
that's going to happen yeah right like this is this is not going to be a polarizing figure no kidding this is not going to be the optic you need going into the general few
Corey
27:26
few things need to happen for hillary she needs to consolidate Consolidate her base. That's looking pretty shaky. She needs to find a line of attack on Trump.
Corey
27:33
We'll get to that, I'm sure. Her lines have been lost. And she needs to get something to stick to Trump in a way that it simply has not in the last year. Well,
Carter
27:42
Well, it's something simple, right?
Carter
27:43
right? I mean, everything that she's trying, I think it's too complicated. And on top of that, this
Carter
27:50
this guy's a walking negative for himself. Why are you going negative now? I don't understand why
Carter
27:58
why you aren't trying to actually articulate
Carter
27:59
articulate your vision for how you will make this country better. Because
Carter
28:03
Because what I'm seeing, I
Carter
28:05
I don't think that the Americans have walked away from the hope message of 2008.
Carter
28:09
They still actually want a better life. And
Carter
28:12
And there's a tremendous group of people that she automatically appeals to. Right. She automatically gets the black vote. She automatically gets the Latino vote. She automatically is in line for the women vote. I don't know. I'm not an expert. Hold on. I am an expert. That is enough to win. But
Carter
28:28
But she pisses off women, right? She pushes away Latinos. The blacks, that
Carter
28:34
that vote doesn't really have anywhere to go.
Carter
28:37
But you've got this challenging model where she's losing her grip, I think, not because she's losing it to Trump, but she's giving it away from herself.
Zain
28:50
Right. So we've got a combination of things breaking Trump's way. We've got this self-inflicted nature. We've got the party-inflicted wounds that still exist. Corey's right. The technical sense is still out there for her. She hasn't locked this up.
Zain
29:03
Anything else to add in terms of problem definition if we're talking about like – like
Zain
29:07
like ultimately, I want to get that all out on the table what that perfect storm looks like. Corey, do you have anything else to kind of add to it or Carter even on that regard? I mean I think you guys have both chimed in. But look.
Corey
29:16
It's bad. It's bad. I mean I don't want to overstate it. I don't want to understate it. I think if you asked me to put, you know, money on the table or something I really cared about on the table, I would probably still say Hillary's got the upper hand. You know, let's
Corey
29:29
let's say she is down a couple of points in polls, but there is kind of a baked in electoral college advantage the Democrats have, one. And two, she is not technically locked up her nomination yet. So, well, she has a number of Bernie supporters claiming they're going to vote for the other guy.
Corey
29:45
Trump had a lot of non-Trump supporters claiming they were going to vote for the other guy, too. They're now behind him. And I expect when both those bases consolidate, you're going to see a pretty even race.
Zain
29:54
Carter, let's take this and let's try to – so we've got the problem on the table. Let's try to put together on air right now just a strategy of what we think might help her alleviate the perfect storm, whether that's avoid it, dodge it, get out of the way or address it head on.
Zain
30:10
First of all, what does that look like from a high framework in your point of view, first
Zain
30:14
first and foremost? Well,
Carter
30:15
Well, you know, I mean, live
Carter
30:16
live on this podcast, I'm going to come up with a strategy that's going to be better than
Carter
30:21
the people who have made millions of dollars doing this down in the States.
Zain
30:23
States. I think you're just jealous about the money. I really am. I think you feel like you could do a better strategy in two minutes. I know
Carter
30:31
have to make this a bigger question than it is right now. Okay.
Carter
30:34
Right now, Trump has got a really good question, right? And his question is—
Zain
30:38
is— And explain to people what you mean by ballot box question. Ballot box
Carter
30:41
box question. Are you getting screwed? Yeah.
Carter
30:43
Right? Are you getting screwed? Yeah, you are. Which is a question people go, I was the guy screwing
Carter
30:47
you. I was the man screwing you. And that really is his message. I know you're getting screwed. I'm the man screwing you.
Carter
30:53
I'm going to stop screwing you if you elect me.
Corey
30:55
Like black hat, white hat. Beyond that, I know how you're getting screwed. I'm going to put a stop to it. Yeah. Because I know exactly
Carter
31:01
exactly like that. I know exactly how it all unfolds. Yeah.
Zain
31:03
practitioner of that screwing. I'm
Carter
31:06
I know how big business is fucking you. I'm big business. I'm going to make it stop. up and and that's a for
Carter
31:13
for a large portion of the population that's a question right it's
Zain
31:16
it's a compelling ballot box question so
Carter
31:17
so the the question that that obama came in with in 2008 was this kind of are you an optimist do you have a vision for america that is positive trump is taking that too let's make america great again right
Carter
31:31
right he's he's taking that i've
Carter
31:34
i've got your i'm your only hope and And what's the big ballot
Carter
31:39
ballot box question that Clinton is articulating?
Zain
31:41
articulating? That's a fascinating start. Corey, do you think that that's the starting point ultimately in terms of avoiding this perfect storm or battling it where it's a reframe or a much more solid question for the ballot box?
Corey
31:54
Well, let me sort of illustrate by example here. I find that when I work with candidates, the candidates that I
Corey
32:01
I like working with are ones who have not been in office, right? Right?
Corey
32:05
Because you start to understand issues a little too deeply. You're thinking about them on a different level. And fundamentally, unless you are an excellent communicator
Corey
32:15
communicator or translator of those complicated ideas, what ends up happening is you say things that are far too prolix, and you're not conveying things the way you need to convey them to get reelected. We live in a democracy, right? I think it's fair to say Trump does not suffer from that problem. problem simplicity
Corey
32:31
simplicity in spades with that guy hillary clinton however has been uh i mean her wealth of experience is well documented i don't need to go through them all but let's just highlight you know board member of a senior corporation first lady of the united states secretary of state senator for new york and that's just the stuff that's on the top line of her resume the fact is she's been involved in all sorts of causes at all levels of depth she knows shit right my My problem is she knows shit, and it's very difficult to unprogram a politician because I'll tell you, and Stephen, I'm sure you've been in the exact same situation. You suggest a soundbite. Well, that's not technically correct. You also have to put that asterisk on it, and you have to say this is true 99% of the time, but there's these three use cases where that was not true. Smartest person in
Corey
33:18
room situation. Oh, it's
Carter
33:19
it's bad. They want to be the teacher, the great teacher of all issues. Is
Zain
33:22
Is that what leads to the whole spray and pray approach she's going with on messaging? like i i don't want to jump too far ahead it's
Zain
33:28
it's an actual quote
Corey
33:29
quote from the washington post clinton's aides say they have settled on the big story they want to tell about trump he is a business fraud who cheated working people for his own gain and his ideas temperament and moves to marginalize people by race gender and creed make him simply unacceptable as commander in chief could you get any denser than that could you try could you try to throw one more thing at him do you think maybe you might want to try to pick a message see what sticks and frankly when when I read that, I see business fraud, cheated working people, marginalized people. You know what?
Corey
34:01
Straight shooter. Yeah. He will soak you in business. He knows how it's done. You want a businessman. Like it plays into Trump's narrative.
Zain
34:08
And he wants to go there. He wants to ultimately have, he has ammunition on the other side of
Corey
34:13
of that argument. I've often thought that Trump at the end of the day is a fairly brittle man. He's just not found somebody who is as good as him at insulting him. Right. I mean, he's a guy with a bad weave and a spray tan. He gets all of his news as though like through a game of telephone from fox news it's ridiculous he took a fortune from his dad and he turned it into a fortune way to go you know he's a guy who was born on third and ended up on second and he's like oh go way to go guy double solid no
Corey
34:39
but i mean he's just a delusional loser who wants people to like him and i think that personality is
Corey
34:44
is fundamentally pretty brittle yet here we are talking about his business acumen for starters right here we are talking about i I don't know. I just – I can't understand.
Corey
34:55
He's going to control the cycles as long as he gets to say his things his way. Well,
Carter
34:58
Well, and as long as he's controlling the cycles, this thing is going to go his way.
Carter
35:02
There's never an election ever where
Carter
35:06
where the person who's defining the question doesn't win the election.
Zain
35:09
Right. Right. So ultimately I'm hearing three things here,
Corey
35:13
right? I'm going to put my asterisk on that, be the obnoxious guy. That's not true. But
Corey
35:16
But they certainly get a huge edge. When? Huge edge.
Corey
35:20
Oh, come on. There's been many times people have walked into the ballot box and thought about a question in a way that, for example, a third party wants them to do, but they won't win.
Carter
35:28
third party? There's a two-party state.
Carter
35:31
Yeah, your asterisk sucks.
Zain
35:33
Okay, so hold on. We've got reframing the ballot box question, ultimately picking and targeting messaging.
Zain
35:39
Corey, what else is there? Is there a third prong that you need? Actually, you've mentioned the whole concept of bringing the party together. Yeah. Do we want to go a little bit deeper on that? I know we've done it in the past, but is there anything you want to tease out as part of that, that she should be doing today, considering this move by Bernie recently, backing the person running against Wasserman Schultz? I mean, like, he doesn't seem to be stopping. No,
Corey
36:01
No, you know, I'm reminded a total deck of a story in Flanagan's book about Harper, about how Harper managed to bring about a merger with the PCs. And it was just, okay,
Corey
36:12
okay, Harper had won.
Corey
36:14
The Canadian alliance had won. The PCs had a couple dozen seats. It wasn't really working out. And in the final summation, we know who got the top of that merger, too. We now have the benefit of another decade behind, right?
Corey
36:29
Harper realized that sometimes
Corey
36:31
sometimes the best thing a winner can do is lose.
Corey
36:34
And so he just tactically retreated on every single issue. Well, we can't possibly merge the parties unless we get a point system. We don't want one member, one vote. Sure, right?
Corey
36:42
right? right? We can't possibly merge the parties unless there is representation that is equal from the PCs on this committee. Sure, right? Doesn't fucking matter. I don't understand why Hillary Clinton, you know, right now you're hearing all this talk about like on the committees at the convention. Convention level, yeah. You have the votes, Hillary. You know, ultimately it's going to come to the delegates. Give Bernie Sanders 80
Corey
37:04
80% of those seats if he wants. It doesn't matter. And if it brings the party together, it's worth it. Because right now, all you're doing is you're What, you're getting two more seats on the rules committee that get to propose rules that your people get to vote on? It does not matter. What does matter is bringing this party together to beat Trump. And I think that they are just so lost in the fight they're having, they're forgetting there's a much bigger fight right around the corner. Carter,
Carter
37:25
Carter, anything to add to that?
Carter
37:27
No, I mean, I think that's ultimately the whole thing. I mean, why
Carter
37:30
why are you –
Carter
37:33
you keep focusing on this spec that is Bernie Sanders, you will not be in a position to win the election. direction and
Carter
37:38
and sanders is fucking hillary clinton right now you
Corey
37:42
you know i i really thought that what was going to happen was he was going to ask for something too big for them possibly to give and that was where the risk was like he wanted the vp right something right which was just never a realistic possibility sure instead he's asking for nothing he's asking for the smallest shit in the world and they're saying no get stuffed and i can't understand to me the logic of that because this would be the easiest thing to give right
Zain
38:05
right to build that bridge all of this would be so simple all
Zain
38:08
all of it we'll leave it there we'll move it on to our next segment our next segment conventional wisdom guys both conventions well two conventions not both the
Zain
38:17
the conservative and the liberal conventions are happening this weekend i want to have a quick segment on on what party conventions exactly are and as a party what your goal is so let's talk broadly carter i'll start with you on this actually as a party you host a weekend of celebration policy placards that go up on the air on bullshit things that you vote on but ultimately what are you looking for as it relates to the politics uh
Zain
38:40
from a party convention parties
Carter
38:42
parties are family so
Carter
38:44
so at the end of the day what you want to do is bring together your family and have everybody uh remember that they actually like one another uh because when you are apart it is very easy to allow uh regional differences or or different opinions, or different ideological positions to start to break you apart. Right. Right? And we have a big country. We have many, many different points of view on issues. Yes. And keeping
Carter
39:12
keeping together 3,000 people, which is really your core.
Zain
39:17
Who shows up to any convention. Yeah. I mean, we
Carter
39:19
we talk about base all the time. Right? We have a base. Well, the base is the people who always vote for you.
Carter
39:25
Which is very different.
Carter
39:26
Very different than the
Carter
39:28
organizers. This is why I'm such a big fan of the Delegated Convention. The people who come together, the people who are willing to put their money on the table and
Carter
39:36
and go to a convention and say, I am a proud liberal or I am a proud conservative, put their money on the table and say, this is what I want to do. This is how I'm giving up my time.
Carter
39:48
That group of people is going to be loyal to you forever.
Carter
39:51
And if you keep them together, functioning as a team, they
Carter
39:54
they will get you elected in the next election.
Zain
39:57
Corey, anything to add to what the purpose of a weekend convention is, especially one that's not so close to the next major election right now? What's the goals broadly? We'll talk specifically, but
Corey
40:09
purpose that Stephen articulated is the most important one in this day and age. We don't really need to get together to talk about policy. There's ways to do that remotely. We don't really need to get together to vote for leader anymore. In fact, most parties don't.
Corey
40:22
But what we do need is to get together to know each other and to be able to be on the same side. That's absolutely true. There's no question about that. Yeah. And there's a saying about conventions that the real convention happens in the halls outside the halls. Sure. Right? Yeah. You're going to the bar. You're meeting some people. you're all of a sudden talking to uh you
Corey
40:42
delegate from montreal well you're from calgary right and you're explaining pipelines or you're discussing pipelines and you're saying why it's such a big deal and they go oh okay
Corey
40:51
okay that's an interesting take i hadn't actually heard of that before and and that
Corey
40:55
that is the the glue that bonds a party together so that it doesn't break into these regional factional things right very important crucial in fact to a party but it's It's also an opportunity to bring the cult together, right? You get the leader up there. He gives a speech. Everybody's chanting at the screen. Inevitable standing ovation. Goldstein shows up. You start booing. It's just a way that you can almost program your guys back and send them back all fired up for the fight. Right. Look,
Corey
41:26
that's good and bad depending on how you want to look at it. But it's essential for political parties. Why bad?
Zain
41:34
bad? I'm sorry. right i just want to stop you there
Zain
41:35
there for a second maybe i missed something
Corey
41:36
something oh i don't know i i generally i try to go through my life without becoming part of a mindless horde okay
Corey
41:41
okay occasionally i go to a place like right right but from
Corey
41:45
party's lens good in that regard
Zain
41:46
regard to program your
Corey
41:48
your folks and get them yeah all
Corey
41:52
that is very important it's also uh it's
Corey
41:56
it's also a very good way to to send people back so you know to bring it into the american context with sure and See, one of the things we talked about is that moment, everyone's together, you
Corey
42:05
you go back and you're saying to the Bernie supporters who didn't get to go there, who weren't delegates, for example, you're like, no, guys, we all have to pull together now. You're bought into the process because you were there at the process. So it's
Corey
42:17
it's an opportunity not just to give a message, but to program messengers, if
Zain
42:22
if that makes sense. Well said. Carter, specifically to this year and the conservative and the liberals, you're strategizing. Are you trying to program anything specific for this year, given the context for your two parties? We can tease them out individually. Let's start with the conservatives. Do they have a particular more specific mandate for this convention weekend than they would from others? The
Carter
42:46
The conservative party, they're
Carter
42:49
they're shopping for a leader, right? Right. And so shopping for a leader means that they have to they have
Carter
42:56
have to avail the opportunity for people to to to share to
Carter
43:00
share experiences, to share the to share the ability to share the opportunity to meet these new people. And the new leaders or the leadership contenders are going to test whether or not they're actually going to have a chance to
Carter
43:13
to win and to succeed in the next leadership.
Carter
43:16
And that's what they're going to be testing.
Zain
43:19
cory is there any specifics that the liberals need to be focusing on heading into this one i mean post elbow gate is that beyond them now does that kind of take well that's not going to matter at all okay that's good to know that's good to know people are wondering some jokes
Corey
43:32
jokes there'll be jokes there'll be jokes that people will probably regret saying because it will look insensitive uh look
Corey
43:41
the doldrums are a tough time to govern And people
Corey
43:45
people forget very quickly how miraculous it is you're in government when you do something like the Liberals did federally or the NDP did provincially.
Corey
43:54
And they start to get critical, right? And they start saying, why haven't we moved on this? Why haven't we moved on that? So if I'm Justin Trudeau, I think what I'm talking about is the long game. I'm contextualizing things. I'm making sure that my core understands
Corey
44:11
that these things are moving forward. word it's it's a lack of information that kills in a political party you start to get upset and you're like my god i voted for these guys based on x and x is not happening well it's a good opportunity to let them know your
Corey
44:24
your thing might not be on today's agenda but we've got four years ahead of us and we're going to get it done let's
Zain
44:29
let's move it on to our final segment our final segment are over under our lightning round and guys it's back the comeback of the legit meter i'm gonna to ask you oh yeah oh yeah
Zain
44:38
yeah from the archives it is back because we got a lot of other things to discuss let's get into this this would be a longer segment than usual um on a scale of one to ten this is how this works we're going with the legit meter first steven carl go to you on a scale of one to ten you tell me how legit this political move is made by the person or the party in question legit meter okay for those who haven't heard it before justin
Zain
45:02
taking some time off to to spend his anniversary with his wife while the opposition says, why isn't he spending that time with the other G7 leaders while he's in Japan? Both the move and the communication on a scale of 1 to 10, how legit for the Prime Minister? It
Carter
45:16
It was a 9 because they posted pictures of him and Sophie going through the parks in Japan hand in hand. And you know what? He's
Carter
45:26
He's still king of the photo op, baby.
Corey
45:28
The guy kills the photo op. Kills as in like? Yeah, he's so good at it. like he just understands that so well and of course the minute he does something like that
Corey
45:39
40 of the husbands in this country are hearing from their wives you
Zain
45:43
you never take me
Zain
45:43
me to do that it's a direct flight no
Corey
45:46
i don't think that's the tokyo thing it's the oh look i'm sorry that was a quote that was sorry that
Zain
45:50
that was a quote from well look
Corey
45:57
i think he's got to be really careful careful though yeah same reason that i thought that the the ndp and the conservatives needed to show a bit of toughness we
Corey
46:05
we want a prime minister who's the tough guy but the sensitive guy but there's a balance right and i i think he's got to watch that his balance now given that it happened the same week as elbow gate i'm not so worried about the balance breaking this week but
Corey
46:18
but i do think he's got to he's got to manage his image in a way that makes him look multifaceted not soft did you give him a number on that i didn't hear
Zain
46:25
hear what you gave him did you think he's
Corey
46:27
he's gonna follow I gave a multifaceted,
Zain
46:30
That's fucking clearly a seven. How about this one? Carter, back to you. On the Legit Meter, one to ten, the
Zain
46:37
the mayor of Vancouver, Gregor Robertson, calling the new NED process on Trans Mountain a complete sham. What
Carter
46:43
What an asshole. It is a one. It is the worst political move in the world. Here's the bottom line. Gregor Robertson doesn't like the answer. Okay?
Carter
46:52
Okay? To call into question a process that results in how many – I can't even remember how many conditions. 170-something? A
Zain
46:59
A lot of conditions. It was 100
Carter
47:01
Shitload of conditions. I
Zain
47:03
I proved with conditions.
Carter
47:04
That this existing pipeline already
Carter
47:07
already transporting the same shit through his city on tankers is now a complete sham. You don't like the decision? Then you call it the process of sham. This is the problem with our systems today. if you don't like the outcome you just call the process bullshit so
Zain
47:27
but but the political move as it relates to the constituencies and the constituents that he cares about still a one yeah
Carter
47:34
yeah at the end of the day at some point you have to have some integrity when you get elected this is a guy who has no fucking integrity at all cory
Zain
47:42
cory you're gonna drop three f-bombs in your answer i was looking for
Corey
47:45
for probably but i i totally I totally disagree. All politics is local. I mean, what
Corey
47:50
what do you think? You think he lost a single vote because of this? I think that he did exactly what his constituents wanted him to do. Now, I
Corey
47:57
I want to look at this from a bit of a different lens. If
Corey
48:00
If I'm the prime minister, I could have pretty easily avoided this and maybe not on the same timeline. mind but the fact of the matter is if you don't want somebody to retreat to the process is bullshit yeah
Corey
48:11
yeah you get them on the record saying the process is fine before the decision is made for the very reason steven said because people go to the process is bullshit when they don't like the decision right
Zain
48:21
right so you would have strategized to make that a
Corey
48:22
a priority there needed to be way more work into the advance and i'm not really sure it was realistic given the timelines and all that but maybe
Corey
48:29
maybe the timelines needed to slide a bit then sorry you know i know everyone's very keen to get had a pipeline but but now we've got a guy who's screaming and gregor can't he
Carter
48:38
he was gonna scream regardless he was but
Carter
48:40
he was gonna scream the burnaby city council is gonna scream well these people are small people who want to win their own little game and don't give a shit about the
Corey
48:48
the rest okay okay okay calm down there you know i'm not
Corey
48:54
you're sitting here in alberta with no irony decrying people it's when have
Carter
49:00
have we screwed british columbia when
Corey
49:02
when have we screwed British Columbia yeah not me you were chief of staff when it happened so I
Carter
49:06
I didn't screw British getting
Zain
49:07
personal and I'm just letting it go on
Zain
49:09
on I'm just texting
Carter
49:11
that was just a rumor about me and Christy Clark why
Corey
49:13
why do we need to cut that out what is wrong with you that didn't happen he's being an idiot oh man do
Zain
49:20
we have legal representation we're gonna need probably shouldn't tell okay we're gonna need it now look
Zain
49:25
look give him give me a number please yeah give some of integrity is a
Corey
49:29
a six it was
Corey
49:33
relationship wrong he soured the relationship with the prime minister which is the only reason it's only a six but the fact of the matter is in vancouver vancouver proper that is a popular opinion cory
Zain
49:43
cory i'm going to you on this one back to you on this one on a scale of one to ten back at the legit meter stephen harper saying that he is leaving office coming this fall for the sitting to pursue business interests on the legit meter how would you rank this as
Corey
49:57
as an exit of a prime minister
Corey
49:59
public life it's actually probably one of the saddest exits i've seen because of course this all came out after the crown announced it wasn't appealing the duffy trial so yeah that's correct he was able to give up his parliamentary immunity i mean that's
Corey
50:13
that's embarrassing right he did not resign until that legal threat disappeared appeared that he would actually have to go on top.
Zain
50:23
fine? I mean, are you buying into
Carter
50:26
into his narrative? You know, Corey says that's embarrassing, and I remember, you know, how many prime ministers get to go out on top, right?
Carter
50:33
They hand off to
Carter
50:35
to their successors, and their successors lose. This is, you know, this is fine. He lost the election. He stayed and fought the election. He didn't stay because Mike Duffy was at trial. No, I would dispute that.
Carter
50:50
He stayed because he wanted to win another election. He lost the election, and now he steps down.
Zain
50:56
Fine. You're giving a number? Give me a number. Three.
Zain
51:02
fighting about? All right. We're only off by two. I'm done with you. Okay. The final one on this question, okay? The final one on the Legit Meter, the political move. Carter, back to you on this. The Legit Meter divides people.
Zain
51:13
We're fighting. We're fighting a lot. This is amazing. I think the listeners will love this segment if they get far. We still have listeners in this session?
Zain
51:21
on. Last one on this one. Stephen Carter. The political move of the federal government foregoing the $267 million debt obligation of Newfoundland and Labrador. Just saying, you know what? Don't worry about it. Price of oil is low. We forgive you on this.
Zain
51:36
To effectively build political goodwill.
Zain
51:38
On a scale of 1 to 10, what do you give that?
Zain
51:42
Three. A shoulder shrug three. A
Carter
51:43
A three. I mean, what
Carter
51:45
what are you gaining there?
Carter
51:47
Like, the conservatives are dead there, aren't they?
Carter
51:51
seem to recall. I mean, there's six seats. Who cares?
Zain
51:55
Your effective question is like, what are you gaining? What are you gaining? What are you doing? What are
Carter
51:58
are you doing here? Are you going to forgive? I mean, Alberta has no debt to the federal government, but we
Carter
52:04
we have debt other places. Maybe they could step in and give us a proportional rebate as well. I don't
Carter
52:09
don't see the point of it. $260 million gone.
Corey
52:15
It's $500 for every Newfoundlander and Labradorian. Is
Corey
52:19
Is that correct? Yeah, it
Corey
52:20
is. It's Ralph Bucks. It's a lot of money when you think about it in
Corey
52:25
those terms, I think, right? I mean, if we got $500 from our government, that would be better than Ralph Bucks, right? But in the grand scheme of things, if
Corey
52:33
if that's the cost and for the good it does, I think it was probably worth it. I disagree. I think Newfoundlanders are mercurial only second to Quebecers. and if the let's not forget danny williams was taking the canadian flag off of the buildings in newfoundland when
Corey
52:49
when paul martin was prime minister and then instantly turned on stephen harper this is sort of a newfoundland play and
Corey
52:57
know you can resurrect the conservatives pretty quickly if you were to be kind of tinier to the plight in newfoundland which is serious like their debt levels are
Corey
53:05
are serious and they needed some assistance on that did you give me a number
Corey
53:09
Oh, I don't know.
Corey
53:11
don't know. Doesn't care. I like
Zain
53:12
like the contextualized. Doesn't care for the
Zain
53:13
You know what? I'm
Zain
53:16
Carter, over, under on six. Justin Trudeau's handling of this Elbowgate situation. Over, under on six.
Corey
53:26
over after the initial act. If we're counting that way, under.
Zain
53:30
Over, under on seven. How damaging for Hillary the support of Bernie supporting Wasserman Schultz's opponent could be? On
Corey
53:38
Oh, under. I think that a ton of Hillary Clinton supporters dislike Wasserman Schultz. Carter?
Carter
53:42
Carter? Under. And come on. These elections of officers barely matter.
Zain
53:48
I know you can't stand him as a person, but as a politician the last week, are you in or out on Donald Trump and what he's been able to do?
Zain
53:57
Because I want to get you on the record of saying that you're in on Donald Trump. Am I making it happen? You're never going to get me to say I'm in on Donald Trump. Do you know someone who might say it? I think it's Stephen Carter. Well, you have to be.
Zain
54:08
be. Can you say it as a full sentence so we can extrapolate it as an audio clip for later? Yeah.
Carter
54:14
I'm not going to say
Zain
54:14
say it because then
Corey
54:15
then you're going to extrapolate that. I,
Carter
54:17
this week and this week alone, am in on Donald Trump and his behavior as a politician.
Zain
54:24
We'll leave it there. That's a wrap on Episode 577 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velji with me as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan, and we'll see you next time.