Transcript
SPEAKER_02
0:04
This is The Strategist, episode 573. My name is Zain Velji. With me, as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan. Guys, what's up? Oh, it's Wednesday. Petting
Corey
0:15
You are literally petting your dog. Mercifully not a euphemism.
SPEAKER_02
0:21
euphemism. Is that the quickest time that we've needed to get the episode title?
SPEAKER_02
0:30
it's good i think we just end the show right there we could start the show we can really get into the segments but i'm not going to do that because cory hogan you've got a special announcement we've
SPEAKER_02
0:41
we've got a contest oh
Corey
0:42
oh man we've got a contest in
Corey
0:43
in hundreds of episodes after the last one went so horribly wrong i'm
Corey
0:48
still trying to settle the court cases related to that yeah
Corey
0:53
i know know nothing about this contest oh yeah it was chester yeah
SPEAKER_02
0:59
i i knew nothing about that contest and more specifically i know nothing about this contest that you're going to tell us about this is a good one well you know about it yeah
Carter
1:06
yeah i do because we had to uh we had to read the the prize catalog to
Carter
1:11
to find the appropriate prizes it's true so what
SPEAKER_02
1:13
what do you want to do first you want to talk about the incentive that one gets or do you want to talk about the contest itself let's talk
Corey
1:19
talk about the contest okay
Corey
1:21
basically we have um we have come to the realization that well we have way more five-star reviews than canadaland way more we'd like even more and um we just we're just throwing shit on canadaland right i like it and
Corey
1:34
uh to incentivize that what we're going to be doing is having a little bit of a one-on-one me versus carter on on five-star review so here's is the basic deal strategist listeners for every five-star review that you post uh where you you say it's a great show except for stephen carter and very colorful language say it stephen carter you're put into the mix to win the prize i'm offering yeah and the prize i'm offering is is is a prize political possession we'll get into in the end and if for every five-star review you put out there that says this show is great except for cory hogan he's atrocious you're put into the the mix for uh you know stephen carter's prize a political
Carter
2:14
political prize that reaches back into the depths of my political experience oh
Corey
2:18
oh and depth is appropriate it's very appropriate so and
Corey
2:23
for every five-star review you have that
Corey
2:24
that says the show is great except
Corey
2:26
except for zayn velji i like it you are you are given the opportunity to win both prizes
Corey
2:34
and uh and we'll do this because even i would do that that's like a great deal you don't necessarily necessarily get um know
Corey
2:41
know who like an itunes poster is so the deal is if your name is there and you can kind of prove it's you you don't need to do anything else but if you think there's some ambiguity either post it on our facebook page post it at us at twitter and we'll make sure that the winning person gets their prizes it's going to be a grand old time and uh my prize okay here it is a
Corey
2:59
piece of political memorabilia that will stand the test of time it
Corey
3:03
it is a plastic tambourine labeled with gerard kennedy's name from the 2006 liberal leadership race beautiful
Corey
3:10
beautiful piece of memorabilia beautiful
Corey
3:12
you can rock out with it you can it's
Carter
3:14
it's functional it is it's
Corey
3:16
functional prize you can recreate the archies with a political theme hey
Corey
3:21
hey hey oh my god
Carter
3:22
hey hey we're the now
Carter
3:26
said it's functional is your prize non-functional mine is even more functional okay mine is even more functional and goes back to how i opened the show because this This is how I work.
Carter
3:36
Scratching my dog. I'm going to give the person who wins on my side, who disses Corey the most, or you. I'm either way. They're going to get an Al Noor Kassam. Go Al Noor dog tag.
SPEAKER_02
3:52
That's what you're going to
Carter
3:52
to get. People are going to need some
SPEAKER_02
3:53
some background. I said the show went off the rails, but this needs some context, Stephen Carter. Give it to us in 30 seconds on what Al Noor Kassam was. He was because that
SPEAKER_02
4:06
that political destiny has been written.
Carter
4:09
He ran for mayor in 2007 in the city of Calgary, and I was fortunate enough to be selected to run his campaign.
Carter
4:18
okay. He was a mortally flawed candidate. He had left Kenya, I'm
Carter
4:24
I'm going to say less than a decade before. So
Corey
4:26
So very Obama-esque so far. but
Carter
4:28
when he when he left he may have may have and there's no proof of this except his admissions he may have left kenya with tens of millions of somebody else's money
Carter
4:41
some of which he paid
Corey
4:41
paid you with well
Carter
4:42
well i'm okay with that but he also ran for mayor and and to be honest um his
Carter
4:48
his defense was stellar right what was his defense it's kenya
Carter
4:55
so if you go back two
Carter
4:57
two reporters kim getormson and colette dewarres from the calgary herald wrote the definitive takedown piece of my candidate i remember that it was a three-page are you starting on the front page of the herald and going into doing a two-page spread where they it was called i called it the thanksgiving day massacre yeah
Corey
5:16
yeah you've said said that on the show it was
Carter
5:17
was the destruction of a candidate and you
Carter
5:21
you can win a dog tag from that campaign oh
Corey
5:24
oh my god all
Corey
5:25
all you have to do is discord i gotta add a couple of things i don't know why i'm trying to make this prize seem better it is better though but eleanor
Corey
5:32
eleanor kasem was not some guy who just threw fifty thousand dollars at stephen carter and said go he spent the most i believe in calgary history 1.4 million
Corey
5:41
million dollars million dollars on his mayoral campaign there were signs Signs everywhere. There were ads, like, I think on TV as well as radio. TV, radio, online. 12 months before. It
Corey
5:50
It was insane. And his signs were designed to create, and I quote, cognitive dissonance. And they were stop signs that were green and said, go.
Carter
6:05
all north. Was that your idea, Carter?
Carter
6:08
It wasn't my idea. It was the ad agencies, but I bought in, baby. I bought in. We needed something. And actually, I did run a subsequent campaign for Alderman using the same idea. It was like the first campaign. Anyways, you know, traffic signs as a method of communicating. And it was a great campaign, though. Like, one of the things that, I mean, sure, mortally flawed candidate. Good guy. I mean, except for the whole, you
Carter
6:31
you know, leaving Kenya with all that money thing.
Corey
6:33
like I got to tell you that some political operatives that I think very highly of, one of which has a senior job in the prime minister's office, worked on that campaign. and i won't out them on this because god knows they won't want that but
Corey
6:45
but uh worked on that campaign learned a lot about research and advertising on that campaign won't say who in the prime minister's office um
Corey
6:53
and and that's because that money was available to experiment well
Carter
6:56
well we we learned a ton we it was an experimental campaign we and and everything we did was measured and
Carter
7:03
and to this day it drives a tremendous amount of my political work learning from that campaign so you're going going to actually get a
SPEAKER_02
7:11
memorabilia. Did you measure how effective dog tags were?
Carter
7:14
Did they get a lot of votes? Dog tags were huge. So what we did, and in fact, the city of Calgary just implemented this policy. We said that you could buy your dog tags, you could buy a lifetime dog license instead of a one-year dog license, and that you could buy them online. So we would reduce administration fees on dog licenses. It was just a simple idea that would change the way that you were able to interact for your dog and getting a license but it would have significant cost impact and they've finally done it you know this is 10 years later now they finally have implemented this policy idea that what a trailblazer
Carter
7:52
it was simple we had a choice of dog people or cat people we chose dog people okay cory recap
SPEAKER_02
7:57
recap recap one more time for everyone you leave a five-star review leave
Corey
8:01
leave a five i think probably like for itunes like legal reasons we We have to be like, hey, only if you want it to be five stars. But if it's less than five stars, we will fucking cut you.
Corey
8:11
You are not going to win the prize.
SPEAKER_02
8:13
Does Stitcher or Google Podcasts? No, it's just
Corey
8:16
just iTunes thing. Okay, it's iTunes. And you leave your review. You insult one of us. That puts you in the pool for a certain prize. If the Velji one is the most epic, then we pool our prizes and give it to you. You could win both. You could win both.
Carter
8:30
both. You could win both prizes. So
SPEAKER_02
8:31
that's the deal. That's the deal. That's great. I'm going to go write a review nagging myself is what pretty much where I'm at. OK, should we talk politics? Hey, why not?
Corey
8:40
not? I mean, it's only been 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_02
8:42
Did we really do 10 minutes? Yeah, we did. That's good. OK, let's go. Carter was excited about
SPEAKER_02
8:46
about Elmer Kassab. That's a good story. First segment, Sanders'
SPEAKER_02
8:50
Sanders' summertime sadness. Corey Hogan, it's here. We talked about it last week. It's here. We talked about the week before. It's here. It's finally here. The narrative in the Sanders campaign is shifting after last night. Clinton wins four states. It's Sanders
SPEAKER_02
9:04
Sanders is now talking about taking a progressive agenda to the convention.
Corey
9:10
Not only is it over, it's over in exactly the way I said last week it would be over, which is after this set of primaries, the Acela primaries in the Northeast and in the United States.
Corey
9:21
There's no no path forward now except for Hillary Clinton being shackled by the FBI and pulled down K Street. Right. People throwing stuff at her. and even then she'd probably still basically she has
Carter
9:33
has to do the game of thrones walk of shame that's
Carter
9:36
atonement that's the only way hillary clinton loses the nomination at this moment also
Corey
9:40
also spoilers man i mean like anyways
Corey
9:42
anyways look come on it was season five so it's
Corey
9:45
it's over he knows it's over his campaign knows it's over at this point it becomes about face saving bringing the party together making sure you get the most out of it and
Corey
9:53
and he's starting to do that you're starting to see messages about how it's important to have a progressive agenda you're starting to see that
Corey
9:59
the attacks have been ratcheted down in my opinion significantly in the last week because it's so apparent that secretary clinton's going to be the nominee you don't want to do damage to the party at this point and
Corey
10:11
and this is not really a big shock i mean it's for a while we've been saying his odds are long now they're just so long as to be a sucker's bet that's that's just the reality it's over for him he knows it's over and
Corey
10:22
it's time for the democrats to get together and And in my opinion, salvage as much of that progressive agenda as possible to put behind
Corey
10:31
behind Secretary Clinton, soon to be nominee Clinton. But look, I got to tell you, it
Corey
10:35
it is an interesting situation that Bernie Sanders, his popularity has been increasing successively and progressively as the campaign's gone on.
Corey
10:44
is not impossible that this nomination ends with Clinton having the most delegates, but Sanders being the most popular. And that, as far as I know, is unprecedented, like in national polls, that he would be the more popular choice among Democrats, but not be able to get the most Democrats. And for me, at least, because I've always been a big fan of the U.S. system of primaries and how it allows you to focus on areas and then those areas change and get bigger and people really get to know you in a very big country. Right. But for me, it's kind of highlighted the challenge with that system, which is that you
Corey
11:17
you can't undo the votes that were. And if this was all leading up to finally an election day across the United States, Bernie Sanders would very much be in this. But because Secretary Clinton has managed to pool so many delegates early on, it's
Corey
11:30
it's over for Bernie.
Corey
11:31
Bernie knows it. If
Carter
11:32
If there was a completely different system under completely different rules, Bernie Sanders would have done well. But he didn't. Trump did well because he figured out how to work
Corey
11:40
work the system. This is the thing about systems, and I think people forget about it. The outcomes are – like just look at the Republican system versus the Democratic system. Like Donald Trump, I think, would have something like 37, 38 percent of the delegates if they use the democratic system instead of, you
Corey
11:55
you know, winner take all structures, a huge chunk of them. So, Carter,
SPEAKER_02
11:58
Carter, talk to me about this. Corey, you set the ground really, really well for for Sanders going forward. But you talk about this notion of pivoting into messaging that is now positive and stitches the party back together. That seems very conventional wisdom and probably rightfully so. So is there another strategy at play that Sanders should be potentially
SPEAKER_02
12:17
potentially considering at this time, Carter? Well,
Carter
12:19
Well, I think we have to recognize who Bernie Sanders is, right? Bernie Sanders – so one of the things – what Corey has just described I think is the way that you would play this game if you were a traditional politician who wanted to make sure that this evil
Carter
12:35
evil of Hillary Clinton is certainly my choice of evil compared to Donald Trump or – Which is ultimately how
SPEAKER_02
12:42
how this ends in most cases.
Carter
12:44
cases. Yeah, but he's not a Democrat, right?
Carter
12:46
right? He is a Democrat, but he's not a Democrat. Yeah,
Corey
12:48
Yeah, he caucuses, but he's an independent. Right,
Carter
12:50
Right, he's an independent, and that means that he's different. That means that he doesn't really care about the Democratic Party, frankly, in a way that I don't think Donald Trump cares about the Republican Party. And that's what makes this whole race so interesting. I mean, even the Republicans that are left, only Kasich is a true Republican throwing himself back to the Ronald Reagan era. uh and then but ted cruz is is more tea party style of republican the new style of republicans that have emerged in the last 15 years of religious fanaticism uh
Carter
13:21
want to say religious fanaticism and republicans i think i am but this is this is an interesting race because both of the party races have been have been dominated by uh politicians who frankly are coming from outside of their norm the only one who's going to win the only one who who actually pulled this off And ultimately, it's because the Democratic rules enabled her to is Hillary Clinton.
Carter
13:43
Now, the traditional thing to do is to get Sanders
Carter
13:47
Sanders on side, take
Carter
13:49
take his support, make it Hillary support and try and build a coalition that will ultimately win the White House. And that should happen.
Carter
13:57
I'm not sure it will.
Carter
13:59
I think Sanders is a wild card. I'd like to think it's going to happen because I want a Democrat to win the White House. I don't want a Republican. I know very few Canadians who are actually true Republicans. Sometimes the conservatives like to pretend that they are, but they're really – it's
Carter
14:13
it's really tough when you compare our system to their system to come down anywhere except
Carter
14:17
except on the Democratic side, I think. So,
SPEAKER_02
14:20
So, Corey, let me ask you this. You are a friend of Bernie Sanders from Vermont. You've not been politically active this cycle, and you know Bernie and not his affiliation with the party. You're called in for a second opinion on the corpse that is this campaign, and you
Corey
14:34
in mind. I get off my dairy farm. You get
Corey
14:36
off your tractor. I head down to Burlington and I say, you know, Bernie, hey, old
Corey
14:41
old time dairy farmer friend of yours. Here's my thoughts. Yeah, what we're talking about. That's exactly what
SPEAKER_02
14:45
what we're talking about. Because what is the thought that you give Bernie Sanders, the candidate and not Bernie Sanders, the party man? Because I think those are two ultimately different things. If you had a second opinion on this, where would you
Corey
14:56
you go right now? I think Bernie has always been a man who's felt dueling pressures, right? He has placed clearly a premium on integrity in his political life, right? He's taken unpopular positions. He stood up. He said, no, that's wrong. No, I will not be a Democrat because I think that fundamentally, and these are his words, I'm paraphrasing now, both parties are corrupt. Both parties have too much big money in it. The only way that I can be a virtuous civil servant is to stay away from all of that. But the other Bernie Sanders is the one who's like, man, I've got to throw my lot in with the Democrats or the Republicans. The Republicans are nuts, right? Easy choice. So he caucuses with them. People forget he actually chaired a committee in the Senate when the Democrats controlled the Senate because he was sort of given seniority in the same vein that the Democrats would give one of their own party members because of his history of caucusing with them and his commitment to democratic ideals. So it's not like he has no connection to these guys, but I'm sure he always struck them as obnoxiously righteous. Oh,
Corey
15:56
for sure. But I don't think he wants to see the Republicans get the White House, where I think he's going to have a challenge because certainly he said things in previous campaign cycles that have caused similar challenges is where
Corey
16:08
where his integrity butts up against like the best outcomes. right if
Corey
16:13
i'm that dairy farmer and i'm talking to him there you know i guess my counsel to him is like bernie this
Corey
16:22
this is i'm sorry but this is the final act and this is how people will most remember you you were not a known commodity to most of the country you need to think about your legacy and your legacy cannot be handing this election to donald trump beyond
Corey
16:35
beyond anything else it cannot be well and that's the same you
SPEAKER_02
16:37
you ultimately advocate for the path he's taking I
Corey
16:39
I mean, what I say with listen, so here's where I'm getting to.
Corey
16:45
I think that the rest of the Democrats understand that tension in Sanders, they are not going to try to make it difficult for him. But the fact of the matter is, if
Corey
16:52
if Hillary Clinton has a super PAC and gets massive donations from people that Sanders doesn't like, and someone sticks a microphone in front of Sanders's face and says, What do you think about this? Sanders is going to say he thinks it's bad. There's no way I mean, his his whole public career to this point is going to be that. and you know he'll coach it within like well it's not what i would do and listen i think they got to get the money out of that and i hope secretary clinton recognizes that and the number of americans who supported me and all that it'll
Corey
17:16
it'll be language like that but
Corey
17:19
what has to happen uh is he's just got to go gently into the night he's just not got to be available for comment he's got to bring the party together and then he's got to step back that would be my advice to him if i was a friend of his because i think otherwise you're going to have half of the party hating you and And your legacy is going to be so badly tarnished after you did what was truly remarkable. I mean, nobody has ever had an insurgent campaign like this. So,
SPEAKER_02
17:39
So, quick follow-up for you, Hogan. You advocated that he take this to the convention, if I'm not mistaken, this time. Do you still believe in that one
Corey
17:46
one week from today? Take
Corey
17:46
Take this means, like, take his campaign and take his supporters and make sure that they get something out of it in the platform and whatnot. It does not mean continue fighting, you know, block by block with Hillary Clinton in some sort of guerrilla war. I think
Carter
18:00
think this is why Corey and I like delegated conventions. right
Carter
18:03
right you you get to go to a convention and heal wounds in the moment of the selection right
Carter
18:09
right and and this is what bernie sanders needs to do bernie sanders is a leader bernie sanders leads his people he needs to heal wounds and stand beside he needs to take a moment where hillary clinton and bernie sanders stand beside each other on a stage and he grabs her hand and raises above his head and says we together are stronger than
Carter
18:29
donald trump and those crazy ass concern conservatives they want to destroy everything i believe in and
Corey
18:35
and there will be like a shiver down the spine of delegates because they're in this moment of high energy and electricity and um and
Corey
18:43
and and he needs to lay the groundwork for it so none of this is a shock right like there can be no more false hope there can be no more suggestion things can change a convention in 2006 in the liberal leadership convention um a
Corey
18:55
a lot of people lost right there were 10 10 candidates going into it, most were going to lose, 9 out of 10 by definition.
Corey
19:03
The only one that was surprised they lost was Bob Ray. And I remember his delegates, not all of them, not en masse, but I remember seeing his delegates in tears, shocked, not knowing what to do, not knowing where to go, because they always believed they would at the least make it to the final ballot, right? And they started acting a bit crazy. And I think what you need to understand about delegated situations are, I remember getting phone calls, by the way, in the same convention from
Corey
19:27
from my father who was saying something along the lines of like, oh, what's going on down there? Like, it must be really, you must have a much better beat of it because you're there. I'm just watching on TV. And I remember thinking like, I guarantee you that's not the case. Like, I'm right here. I can only see what's right in front of my face. I have got my lists of call sheets and things like that. I do not get that big, broad picture. when you were there and
Corey
19:48
this sort of plays into that leap manifesto conversation that we were having a week ago right you
Corey
19:53
you cannot see past the hour you're in or the convention hall that you exist in yeah
SPEAKER_02
19:57
yeah i think your quote was your your focus and you i damn it i can't even bring together this room let alone the country is effectively what you were saying at one point right
Corey
20:04
right well and they just you know so anyways if
Corey
20:07
if if sanders people go in there and get expectations shattered and broken or whatnot they are going to carry that back yeah
Corey
20:12
states but if they get together the the exact opposite can also be true right they can that sense of togetherness and we got to do this and we got to pull for hillary clinton and it's not about hillary it's about this country and it's about the democratic movement and what it can be not necessarily what it is then
Corey
20:27
then i think that they're going to actually be able to send that back to their states and start getting things going in a big way this is all stage management at this point and and it's all moving towards that moment that's even you know very artfully kind of displayed of the hand being raised you know in unison carter
SPEAKER_02
20:43
carter you you know you you guys have both worked in electing candidates but also ensuring that some in some cases messages win in this point sanders has a message and you'll need a strategy to ensure that it ultimately has the ability to be potent within clinton's agenda what is the strategy that you'd think about if you're on the sanders
SPEAKER_02
21:03
sanders side right now in terms of pushing that message strategically and ensuring it still has legs beyond him raising that hand and after After he walks off stage, it's dead. Like, what is what is it that he needs to do setting the groundwork now for that message to ultimately win?
Carter
21:18
He needs to find a part of that message that isn't immediately contradicted by Hillary Clinton.
Carter
21:24
Right. Hillary Clinton is a lifetime politician who has accepted money from everywhere. She's you need to find a version of that that works within her attempt to change health care in the early 1990s. You have to find a version of it that fits with, you know, Clinton
Carter
21:43
have worked together before on initiatives.
Carter
21:46
He needs to find ways of communicating his vision so it's not so adversarial, right?
Carter
21:53
right? Right. This is one of the the sometimes
Carter
21:56
sometimes you need an adversary. And to be to be clear, you need an adversary in Clinton to run the Bernie Sanders campaign because
Carter
22:04
because you can't run it with
Carter
22:06
with just the Republicans being an adversary.
Carter
22:10
He needs to find now the new adversary, the bigger adversary, and
Carter
22:13
and that is the Republicans. Donald Trump,
Carter
22:16
no matter what you may think of Hillary Clinton and her secretary of state email issues and her
Carter
22:21
her massive amounts of money that
Carter
22:23
that are coming from – I mean Bernie Sanders supporters have been producing videos and webpages
Carter
22:27
webpages that talk about all the money that's going to Hillary Clinton.
Corey
22:31
Well, by the way, this is going to be a challenge that's unique because it's not like he can just turn those people off. Yeah, that's true. They've been mobilized on a very – They're not the campaign. He's
SPEAKER_02
22:40
So, Corey, same question to you. And in some ways, he's been successful. He's got her to kind of potentially consider the minimum wage application. But this is very much in line with the delegated convention model, right?
Corey
22:53
dramatically changed what this contest was going to look like. How
SPEAKER_02
22:55
How does he sustain it? How does he sustain it so she doesn't just etch-a-sketch that in the general election? Well,
Corey
23:00
Well, you know, I think that if I'm Sanders and I'm playing real hardball, what I'm trying to do is find an heir almost, right? I'm trying to find somebody who is acceptable as a VP candidate to both of us who I think will push Hillary more to the left and can be that signal and can maybe carry on this progressive movement of his once he's gone. To a VP candidate potentially. Well, that would be my dream scenario. But I think that's asking a ton, especially when Clinton has what she's got.
Carter
23:26
Well, I think that Corey is foreshadowing the next big challenge, right?
Carter
23:30
Hillary Clinton is going to win the nomination. In
Carter
23:34
that's going to happen, right?
Carter
23:36
In fact, it's happened now. She's won the nomination. Now, immediately, today's announcement with Cruz, where we expect him to announce Carly Fiorina.
Carter
23:45
It's starting another, a new season of silliness. And that new season of silliness is the development of the vice presidential market. Who
Carter
23:57
Who is going to become the vice presidential candidate for Clinton? Who's going to be the vice presidential candidate for Trump? They've all but secured their nominations.
Carter
24:06
they're now going to start this conversation. Corey has foreshadowed that choosing that person,
Carter
24:12
the difficulty that you have is am I choosing that to help defeat
Carter
24:17
right? So am I going to, I mean, Hillary doesn't need to choose someone else from the big northeast. She doesn't need to choose someone from she may need to choose someone from the south to counter some of those
Carter
24:28
components. I don't know. There's different places that she, geographically. But then she also needs to start How am I actually going to counter or hold this group of voters, this new Democratic Party that's being developed within my Democratic Party that is Sanders? And
Carter
24:45
And she sure as hell isn't going to choose Sanders. And Sanders has had very,
Carter
24:49
very, very few elected people stand up beside him. Yeah.
Carter
24:53
I mean, he can get rock stars, but he can't get people who need to get reelected in November.
Carter
24:57
So that's that's interesting. That's her challenge is how do I bridge those two or how do I square those two circles and make those two things actually happen simultaneously?
SPEAKER_02
25:06
Carter's moved on a bit to Clinton. Corey, anything to add in terms of the Clinton strategy going forward? Or did you want to respond to what he was saying? I
Corey
25:12
I mean, she knows she needs to be sensitive to this at this point. And there is definitely going to be a lot of walking on eggshells for the next bit. And it is really interesting to see kind of in this modern campaign where it
Corey
25:25
it used to be you could negotiate away movements. I've written about this in the past, actually, right? But you can't negotiate away movements when they're so diffuse and they're so social in this sense. sense so even if sanders goes over and says yeah secretary clint we're all on board there's
Corey
25:40
there's going to be you know the rebels in the hills still and they're going to be fighting and you just you've got to put down that insurgency in a very artful fashion i think she's got to try to do the best to keep her supporters from returning fire to his diehards who you know like the the people on the islands in japan who don't know that world war ii is over that's sort of what it is at this this point and um and
Corey
26:03
and they've just they've just everybody's gotta just cool everything down constantly and just acknowledge there needs to be an embrace of the fact that on both sides there will be people who will not stop firing but
Corey
26:13
but they cannot let it consume it and all of the main voices of the campaign have to be like we're together tous ensemble everything
SPEAKER_02
26:21
forward i'm gonna move it on to trump the highs and lows of the trump roller coaster hit a high yesterday Yesterday, he
SPEAKER_02
26:27
he wins five states. Stephen Carter, are we headed to a delegated convention?
Carter
26:31
Well, I mean, it's not going to be that brokered convention everybody was talking about. He's going to win on the first ballot. I mean, he didn't
Carter
26:41
didn't need what he got yesterday. He needed about 80
Carter
26:45
80% of what he got yesterday. He
SPEAKER_02
26:46
He overperformed in that regard. He
Carter
26:48
He absolutely overperformed. And if you look back last week when we were talking about this, if you went to the polls, he was below 50% in most of those states. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but I think he went over 50% in every state except one, which was – I think it was Rhode Island. It
Carter
27:07
It was a smaller one. It might have been Delaware. He went by over 30 points everywhere. I think that – well, Kasich got five delegates and Cruz got one.
Carter
27:16
Bottom line, he fucking destroyed them.
Carter
27:19
And we were not predicting. I mean, I think Corey and I both said last week that this
Carter
27:23
this is now done. Trump's going to win the nomination. Yeah.
Carter
27:26
And we'll look to seal it next week. I didn't expect him to seal it this big. And
Carter
27:30
And he crushed it.
Carter
27:32
He's not going to get taken down now. This is.
Carter
27:36
And even if he does, the momentum, the growth in his in his number, in his numbers, if Cruz and Kasich try and steal this from him, it's
Carter
27:45
it's over. Oh, it'll look
Corey
27:46
look like larceny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
27:48
Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, your
SPEAKER_02
27:51
man. I was going to ask you, effectively, I think this may tie into what your response was, but it seems like what's led to this most recent high was this, you know, the system is rigged message that Trump has been peddling the last two weeks. And I think that's exactly what you're going to say, is that if it were to go down that road. Yeah, I don't think that's why he won. You
SPEAKER_02
28:08
You don't think so? Okay,
Corey
28:08
Okay, we'll talk about that in a second. It may have impacted his margins, but let's be realistic. there's a bit of a you
Corey
28:14
you know there's this comic xkcd i've known a few years of course yeah but there's this one i remember in particular where it's a sports newscaster he says let's create narratives out of this random number generator which is essentially all sports coverage right stuff happened now let's say why that's because lebron's all upset or something like that right
Corey
28:32
politics is a bit like that i mean we're creating these like big up down swings as though it's something that's fundamentally changed in the trump candidacy or the cruise candidacy but all that's really changed is the geography we always thought trump would win in the northeast the the amount he's winning by is is impressive but there's a few things you have to consider there one we
Corey
28:52
we always knew he'd win in the northeast that's going to suppress turnout on the other side there's just not going to be a lot of reason for the cruise supporters to come out to turnout is
Corey
29:01
is sort of of backing that up um it was like i think something like five of the 10 worst turnouts as a percent of the overall population for those gop races now they're also very democratic states so there's a couple of things you got to keep in mind there i
Corey
29:17
i don't know that anything has fundamentally changed i'm not sure anything had fundamentally changed after wisconsin when everybody's like oh man cruz on the run i think if you take a step back generally speaking trump's winning the states we thought he'd win and generally speaking cruz is winning the states he we thought he'd win the real like nail in the coffin the equivalent of what this week was where hillary put away bernie yeah
Corey
29:39
opinion and all but name will
Corey
29:40
will be next week indiana indiana yeah
Corey
29:42
because if if trump wins indiana that was sort of like that that's the faint hope clause for cruz and even if cruz wins it he's not likely to win overall
Corey
29:51
overall right but you could conceivably and not with much difficulty see Trump
Corey
29:56
Trump technically being below that 1237. Now with Pennsylvania with their loophole primary and with all of those delegates sort of being undeclared, but actually Trump delegates, he's probably there either way. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02
30:08
Interesting. I want to take a very quick detour here because Corey mentions Indiana. I wanted to get this into this a little bit later, but Carter will ask you this. John Kasich has officially stated he's no longer going to get a campaign in the Midwestern states, effectively leaving Indiana to be a Trump cruise battle.
Corey
30:20
battle. Oh, I can't wait to talk
Corey
30:21
talk about this. Do
SPEAKER_02
30:22
you – first of all, let's talk about Kasich's strategy there. Do you think that adds up? If you were to advise him, do you think that's a good idea ultimately?
Carter
30:31
depends. Here's the thing. You have to actually look at this and say, okay, a Kasich voter is the same as a Cruz voter.
Carter
30:40
No. Very different people, very different sides of the Republican Party. So I'm not sure how you say – how – my belief is that they always had to try and keep Trump under 50 percent. And the best way to do that is to have both of them running.
Carter
30:53
They've decided through this kind of unholy alliance that that is incorrect. They can split things up and one of them will get all the other guys voters and everything will work out. That never works like that. Voters rarely, if ever, behave in a predictable fashion like that en masse. So what will happen is some of Kasich's voters will go to Trump and
Carter
31:13
and some of Kasich's voters will go to Cruz and some of Kasich's voters will stay home. home
Carter
31:18
that's not a recipe for defeating trump they
SPEAKER_02
31:21
they have what's yeah what's the explain to me what the casick mindset here could be because i agree with carter there is is more not the merrier here now
Corey
31:28
now i don't think so i think actually if it had settled before cruz might have had a better chance because even though like yes there is a massive gap between them left and right i think if you are either of those campaigns in your last one standing you don't make it about left or right You make it about Trump or not, right? Hashtag never Trump, all that shit.
Corey
31:47
The Americans fundamentally, though, just have – I
Corey
31:51
I think it would work in Canada.
Corey
31:53
That's what I would say. Explain that.
Corey
31:55
a little bit deeper than that. The Americans have no
Corey
31:57
no history of strategic voting. They have two parties. And I think even as you're seeing with like the acceptance of Trump's argument that if he goes into convention with the most, the plurality, even if it's not a majority, majority he should get to be the nominee being so popular amongst dem or republicans like 61 percent right 62 percent they
Corey
32:15
they they have we elect parliaments not prime ministers yeah they elect presidents they just vote right and yes there are many things that happen with the electoral college and whatnot but the person with the most votes you know even like in 92 right you had ross perot on the ballot george hw bush and bill clinton bill clinton didn't win a majority and If there was a runoff, it probably would have been George H.W. Bush, right?
SPEAKER_02
32:39
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah. But I
Corey
32:40
I think – I don't even know if that's true. I better check before I start saying stuff like that. But the
Corey
32:48
there is just absolutely no background with this. And on its surface, this is pretty clear, right? Like most votes should win. You're trying to subvert most votes winning.
Carter
33:02
Yeah. Strategic voting could be argued to be anti-democratic. And that is the argument that is working right now for Trump. Right.
SPEAKER_02
33:11
If you're in the Cruz camp right now, would you have advised what he's going to do shortly with that announcement? Like, what would your advice to Cruz be at this moment? You guys are both shaking your heads. Tell me why. Explain a little bit more in that regard.
Corey
33:22
It's a Hail Mary. They did exactly.
Corey
33:25
the end of the day, and we said this a lot during the federal election. Would
SPEAKER_02
33:27
Would you suggest he needs a Hail Mary right now? That's all he's
Corey
33:30
he's got left. That's all he's got. But he's done. I mean they're like – they're
Corey
33:33
they're 40 and first, right? They have been sacked so many times. This is their only chance. And like
Corey
33:40
like where we sort of have to keep in mind is that just because you do something that's a bad choice doesn't mean it's not the best choice available to you, if that makes any sense. We talked about this in the federal election with the conservatives.
Corey
33:54
They may take the best strategy available to them. They may still lose, right?
Corey
33:58
right? right? Their options have narrowed to the point where there are not a lot of good options available.
Corey
34:03
We talk about the fact that Cruz is doing all of this chicanery to try to sweep up the delegates, right? So on the second ballot, he wins.
Corey
34:10
The closer that Trump gets to 1237, and at this point, the
Corey
34:14
the question is over or not. It's not if he's going to be close. He will be within 100. There's almost no scenario under which he's not. It
Corey
34:21
does. It just looks like outright theft if on the next ballot he drops by 300 or 400 because Cruz and that's an that's a lot but a big drop is going to look like the democratic will has been subverted it's
Corey
34:34
it's a terrible option but if you're Cruz and you think the ends justify the means that's
Corey
34:38
that's your only choice available similarly this strategic voting only choice available yeah
Corey
34:43
has nothing but bad choices Carter anything to
SPEAKER_02
34:45
to add to that nope Corey
SPEAKER_02
34:47
Corey nailed it great
SPEAKER_02
34:48
great let's move on our next segment smile you're on candid camera are
SPEAKER_02
34:53
we are you know we're talking about no cameras
SPEAKER_02
34:56
cameras lifts oh mirna had nenshi boston let's talk about this for a very quick segment i
Corey
35:02
i should say that zane has been threatening to actually film us do these for a while so i thought there was a non-zero chance he's been filming i wanted
SPEAKER_02
35:08
wanted to listen okay so you let's give people a little bit context mirna nenshi of calgary in boston taking lift a another rideshare service and his His driver, apparently without authorization, was periscoping him. I mean, what a day or what a week for second-place brands, by the way. Lifted periscope in the spotlight. But ultimately... Yeah,
SPEAKER_02
35:35
Nicely done. He's getting videotaped or periscoped and ultimately makes these very candid comments about Uber, their entry into Calgary, et cetera, over a 30-minute span. I want
SPEAKER_02
35:47
want you to get your guys's take. Number one, the incident happened. Let's take that as is. Let's talk about the response and where that lays to the brand, because Mayor Nenshi is known nationally as a politician who's pretty candid about many issues. Was he ultimately right? And this goes back to a previous episode of doubling down on his response that he gave as his clarification. I'll go with you, Corey, and then I'll go to Stephen Carter.
Corey
36:11
think maybe – you
Corey
36:15
That's a good question and I'm not really – I could be convinced either way and I look forward to hearing what Steven has to say.
Corey
36:21
I think that yes, his brand is supposed to be outspokenness but at a certain point, that is just sort of un
Corey
36:26
un-mayor-like, you know? And ultimately, it could get him – it starts to look like how many times can you get in legal trouble for being an asshole, right?
Corey
36:35
right? I think that's the big problem. It's starting to look like a record of behavior by the mayor, right? His comments about Wenzel being the godfather. Now you've got these Uber guys. And he is
Corey
36:51
I hope we all know that. But I also think we should keep in mind he's not indestructible. Just because he's sitting at 70% in the polls one day does not mean that he's a lock for the next election. We are in tough economic times. There is just generally an exhaustion that happens with politicians over time. and let me tell you that that like circle immediately around the mayor still like what he stands for but a lot of them are getting a little frustrated with his general approach to governance i don't think i'm breaking any big secrets saying that he he can be seen as very imperial uh the fact that he has such popularity with the people he he maybe carries it over the heads of his fellow counselors a little too much and generally that
Corey
37:31
that is going to have consequences quizzes down the road if he continues down that path i
Corey
37:35
love mayor nancy i think what he's trying to do is is good stuff and god forbid we live in a parallel universe with rick mciver being the mayor but
Corey
37:43
but he's got to take a bit of a lighter touch to some of these issues and
Corey
37:47
and this is a great reminder to all of us that somebody is always recording steven
SPEAKER_02
37:50
steven carter charming witty endearing words commonly used to describe nine nancy was this not the incident and the ultimate reaction just just an extension of that? What did he do wrong here? Or if anything, what
SPEAKER_02
38:01
what did he do wrong? If
Carter
38:03
If anything, so you've got a Lyft driver in Boston, that's never going to vote for you or see you again.
Carter
38:08
Why the hell are you trying to chime the pants off?
Carter
38:11
And that's ultimately what this is. Look at me and I'm, I'm the mayor of Calgary and I'm going to try and, uh, you know, win you over, have you like me by saying stuff that frankly had no business being sent, said he, He made a significant mistake when he was on that Lyft car. He didn't say the truth, or if he did say the truth, he shouldn't
Carter
38:36
shouldn't have been saying it.
Carter
38:37
If this is what is actually happening, where you're taking Uber drivers and you're taking real people
Carter
38:43
people who are sex offenders and such
Carter
38:46
such and putting them through a process, that's insanity. To
SPEAKER_02
38:49
Uber's system faulty. That's
Carter
38:52
What the hell are you doing? And now he finds himself as a integrity commissioner is going to be investigating him, something that he himself voted for because he knew that he was on the wrong side of any of any rational, intelligent person's point of view. And there have been very, very few people who have defended him online. Yeah, he looks like a dick.
SPEAKER_02
39:16
So let me get back to the heart of the question, the double down. Would you have advised for that, Stephen Carter, if you were advising the mayor on this? Would you have effectively said, you know, I would I think the point that I'm trying to make is that amongst his clarification, he said, I have said I don't regret what I've ultimately said. And I've said it before, just to not such salty language was ultimately the heart of that. Would you have advised of that double down?
Carter
39:43
You could have tried to do a revision of the you could have tried to do a double down that pointed out the difficulties you've had with Uber. And you could have said, you know, this
Carter
39:53
has not been a good conversation. This has not been a positive rideshare conversation where we have come up with a similar point of view. It has been controversial
Carter
40:02
controversial from the beginning. And what I said in this rideshare on
Carter
40:08
was just simply a mirroring of that.
Carter
40:11
He could have tried that. But instead, he doubled down on deck. And
Carter
40:14
And he can't double down on deck. You can't say.
Corey
40:17
There's our episode. Oh, my God. You
Carter
40:19
You can't say I'm a dick and
Carter
40:22
it's okay because he looked like an asshole. He sounded like an asshole and he hurt himself. He hurt his brand. How to get out of that? Personally, I
Carter
40:32
I would have taken my beating.
Carter
40:34
I'm a year and a half away from an election.
Carter
40:37
This is going to be a six-day beating. At worst, if I just allow it, if I just allow the beating to go, it might go four. And the reason it goes so long is because it happened on a Friday and it would carry through to the month.
SPEAKER_02
40:48
month. Corey, I'm curious to hear your thought on this. You said you could have gone either way on if he should have doubled down on Dick. But, yeah,
SPEAKER_02
40:55
yeah, I mean, basically. Where do you stand right now? Like, what would you have advised him? So, I hate Uber. So,
Corey
41:00
So, you and I are on the same side of this. Uber is like, there are a few things in the world I hate as much as Uber. Listen, here's the situation, folks. Okay? Do you want to go into a random range? You cannot mask just like a total subversion of democratic will as technocracy. and that's exactly what uber is trying to do the reason why you get into a cab and it always costs the same per hundred meters you go is because cab companies used to screw people around and civic governments came in and said no that is a fundamental right transportation it's why we have public transportation systems it's why we have public walkways it's why we have cycle tracks it's because getting around is required by everybody regardless of how much or how little money you make okay step one step two the reason we put these protections in and have all these verifications that you're going to have drivers who get your class four license in alberta or whatnot is not because they taxi companies came to us and said hey we'd like to do this that seems like a good idea once again it's because governments of the people by the people have had to step in and say you are abusing an open system we need to put regulations in to protect consumers so when you come in and you say we don't need any of that stuff because we've got an app Fuck you, okay? Go through the system. You want the laws changed? Go to your councils, get them changed. Do not start operating illegally and saying, this is fine, this is progress. That is bullshit. That is utter bullshit. And I think it's time that somebody stood up to him. And that's why I have a hard time being that mad with the guy. Because they are dicks. They're the worst kind of operators. This is mercenary capitalism at its absolute worst. And it's time to take Uber to task.
Carter
42:39
do you feel about Uber?
Corey
42:41
don't like uber but here's the thing
SPEAKER_02
42:42
thing so suppose you got into a lyft car yeah
SPEAKER_02
42:46
so what has to do about it probably have done that not in lyft because yeah anyways so you were going to say something car did you want to finish it off there i actually have one last question on this if you don't which
SPEAKER_02
42:56
which i'm assuming you don't you're just giving me a blank look i
Carter
42:58
i don't have anything more to say does
SPEAKER_02
42:59
does this say anything about broadly can we extrapolate this incident about political brands is there a lesson to be learned here that even the political brand even if you're authentic to it has a ceiling or has a fringe that you cannot cross but
Carter
43:14
but this wasn't authentic to his brand was
Carter
43:16
was it not though no absolutely not why was it not because it wasn't smart
Carter
43:20
fundamentally his brand is smart forthright talk and this was him just being a a it's i don't know what it was an everyday common man is trying to win like i say he's trying to he's trying to win over a
Carter
43:34
a lift driver that he's never going to see again in boston who's he trying to impress and And why? This isn't on brand. The
Carter
43:41
The brand is I'm for Calgarians, I'm a Calgarian, and I'm smart.
Carter
43:45
None of that was reflected in this move. I push
SPEAKER_02
43:48
back. I think he was being candid. He was being witty. He was effectively being who he was. Was it a smart decision to have that conversation? Maybe, maybe not. But is there a lesson to be learned here on brands, Corey? Are you going to agree with Carter here? I kind of agree with Carter. It's
Corey
44:01
It's not on brand. I mean, I don't think it is on brand. I think that his brand in its best days is almost like an absent-minded professor. He's quirky. He says the things he wants. He looks a little bit schlubby sometimes because he doesn't super care about that. He's just the smart thinker who's building a better Calgary.
Corey
44:18
And this was not on brand. This was an imperial mayor walking around being like, fuck those guys. And that cannot be your brand.
Corey
44:27
But fuck those guys, right?
Corey
44:30
That's not going to be a popular opinion. You do realize that. I don't care. Actually, this is a great frustration of mine, that every left-wing hipster in the world loves Uber. Uber is horribly disruptive to everyday working families, and it's not good for the consumer.
Corey
44:44
One final thing I'll say about Uber and laws and why we have them is
Corey
44:48
is another thing that taxis afford us protection is that they have to pick up everybody and take them no matter how short the distance, all of that.
Corey
44:55
Those are, again, put in for our protection. You don't get to see how you were rated by previous taxi drivers. You get to go in regardless of what that taxi driver you had before thought of you, all of those things. We
Corey
45:06
We are undoing like a century of evolution of the taxi business to protect consumers just because some Silicon Valley assholes who are actually the guys from Calgary. Yeah, Garrett Kemp. I think that this is progress. This is not progress. This is not progress. This is an app.
SPEAKER_02
45:24
Another classic Corey Hogan rant. Guys, we're moving on to our next segment. Our next segment, getting a top off before you drop off. let's talk about christy clark getting some money you
SPEAKER_02
45:34
you like that that's great that's good
SPEAKER_02
45:37
that's really nicely done um okay
SPEAKER_02
45:40
okay a little bit of context christy clark in a globe and mail exclusive has been exposed of getting money from her party in addition to the salary she earns already as premier holy shit non-story stephen cutter because as far as i know this is the most commonplace thing in the political world and and if people don't know that maybe you can give them an insight on it because i feel like there may have been a certain premier you would have had a certain experience with in that regard listen
Carter
46:08
is the dire straits song you know money for nothing and the chicks for free um this
Carter
46:13
this is why people hate politicians it appears that they're getting money for nothing except you forget that the premier is the leader of a party and the leader of the party is compensated by the party to be the leader right this is that's a very important This is one of those things. Now, some parties have stopped doing that because
Carter
46:29
because the political pressure from everybody else who says, what?
Carter
46:33
what? Politicians making six figures? How dare they? I only make five figures moving stuff from one pile to the other pile. Great
Corey
46:45
Your imagination knows no bounds. No
Corey
46:49
Bushels of wheat will be next.
Carter
46:52
This is – do
Carter
46:53
do we pay politicians enough is the fundamental question.
Carter
46:57
I don't think we do. Let's
Corey
46:58
Let's get to that. I
Carter
46:59
I don't think we pay politicians enough. And as a result, we find ways of sneaking around and giving additional funding. And one of the ways that we sneak around and give additional funding is by having parties top up salaries to certain people, leader of their party being first and foremost. The person who personifies the brand, who's working 24 hours a day. Goes to fundraisers. Like Nancy can't show up in a Lyft car and say something stupid ever
Carter
47:25
ever because they're on 24 hours a day. And
Carter
47:28
And that is the reality and that's why they get topped up.
Carter
47:32
And they also have fundraising responsibilities and other responsibilities for the actual party. So
Corey
47:36
So you have – one second. No, no, no, no. Go ahead. Two thoughts before we go further because that could seriously detour us. Everything he said could seriously detour us. And just like so, they're good conversations. But I
Corey
47:46
think it's fascinating that people are outraged, utterly outraged when certain activities happen in a premier's office. Their first instinct is always to say the party should have paid for that. And yet when the leader itself is doing something that's a party function, their reaction is, why is the party paying for that? They should only get their premier salary. That to me almost doesn't make sense from like an intellectual integrity standpoint. Let me ask you like a really real question here. Like what fundamentally are they worried about in that case? Do you think that the NDP in B.C. are trying to protect the donors to the B.C. liberals? No. Do they think that the B.C. liberals are somehow going to hold an outsized sway on the premier because
Corey
48:28
because they're giving money?
Corey
48:30
That's fucking the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Like, what is fundamentally – who's – you know, when you look at things in a legal standpoint, like tort law or something, it's like, who got hurt?
Corey
48:40
Who got hurt here?
Corey
48:41
don't know who got hurt here. I don't know what the wrong is besides exactly what Stephen said, which is like somebody is getting more money than you think they're entitled to. That's
Carter
48:49
That's ultimately what this is all about. People have this insane sense of what a politician should get paid. And ultimately, here's what people think politicians should get paid. Yeah,
Carter
49:00
They think that they get derived benefit from the power that they have. And sure, we used to derive benefit. All
Carter
49:07
of those benefits have been scrubbed out. Ethics commissioners, integrity commissioners, all of those benefits have been taken out. And now we should just say, how much do we want to pay the people who run the enterprises that we actually have? So
Corey
49:20
So George Washington, first president of the United States. You might have heard of him. Once or twice. He's on the $1 bill. Former slave owner. That's
SPEAKER_02
49:26
That's how I know him.
Corey
49:27
Former slave owner, George Washington.
Corey
49:30
Jesus. All right. George Washington.
Corey
49:35
George W. Bush was not a former slave owner, to my knowledge. To the best of my knowledge,
Corey
49:40
don't know. And some George Bushes are, I assume, good people. But this
Corey
49:45
this George Washington, when he became president, he was one of the richest men in the colonies. he had absolutely no need for a salary for the presidency right he insisted on getting a salary not because he wanted a little extra money really it made no difference to him the amount of money he had but because the precedent would then be set that these guys should work for free and that would ultimately narrow your pool of candidates right if we want people from all walks of life to be able to run for office uh single moms people who work in the non-profit sector or or frankly even people who have very good jobs who would be taking a massive pay cut to go into public service you have to compensate them properly for these jobs right and and the problem becomes twofold
Corey
50:26
twofold one you cannot make public
Corey
50:28
public office something that only the rich can afford to do and two is you cannot make public office something only the poor would ever want to do right you got to find a middle ground here and and this notion that we should be paying politicians the lowest dollar well tell me how that works in your companies when you put an ad out and you say we want a ceo salary $25,000. How do you do?
Corey
50:48
How do you do?
Corey
50:50
we want the best, we've got to be willing to compensate for that. I've always believed, as a bit of an aside, if
Corey
50:55
if your belief is overall the cost of government is too much, look at the whole envelope. Do we need as many MLAs or MPs or MPPs for our Ontario listeners? Maybe we don't. Maybe we just have people being paid more, doing more, having bigger offices.
Corey
51:10
We got to look at this more holistically. And ultimately, we have to realize that this race to the bottom is not something we're going to be happy with the outcomes of okay
SPEAKER_02
51:18
so i appreciate where the two of you are coming from you know having that experience on the inside working day to day with these these these politicians these public servants who've been tireless but ultimately now the bc liberals have a communications battle to fight and what's come out of this story is that the ndp leader does not take much money outside of purchasing a suit or
SPEAKER_02
51:39
or two a few suits uh kathleen win in ontario does not get a top up so ultimately stephen carter how are you defending this are you going to try to make this a broad argument on politician pay because that could have some some risky issues associated with it how are you i'm not running for office i can make it as risky as i want if suppose she
Carter
51:58
she asks you christy clark is asking you to do this what would you what would you advise her to do i'd say i this is one of those things that i would double down i would say i have responsibilities as a leader of my party and I do not believe that the taxpayers of British Columbia should be compensating me for those responsibilities. And frankly, this
Carter
52:14
this is what I charge to do those things.
Carter
52:17
Done. That's it. Done. And then you walk away from it and
Carter
52:21
and ultimately you have to address the donations problem.
Carter
52:25
But that's a different issue.
Corey
52:27
I mean, let the BC Liberal donors decide whether or not that's a good use of money and let them hold it accountable. That's why they're a private organization. They have oversight by Elections BC. if, if what they're doing is within the boundaries of it, you can argue whether or not it's smart, if it's good optics, but are we arguing if it's legal or not? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but how
Corey
52:47
how is it not legal? How is it not legal? Is
Carter
52:49
Is there, is there a contract that says when you're premier, you cannot accept money from other people.
Carter
52:54
Maybe that's how they do it, but
Carter
52:58
This is a service that is being provided to the prevent to, To the
Carter
53:02
party. It does not in any way influence their service to the provincial government.
Carter
53:08
What the hell? I don't understand it.
Corey
53:10
Premiers do party things. And should the taxpayers be paying for those party things? There's a strong case you could make that all of these party activities should not be covered by their public salaries. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
53:21
Yeah. If you were on the other side of this, Corey, we'll close on this for this segment. If you were, for example, let's take you back to where you were in 2012 with the liberals. Rolsey found this out about the PCs. Would you make hay about this?
Corey
53:32
100%. What would you say? I mean, I think we tried to. There was similar things with Alison Redford in Rumors of a Top. That's
SPEAKER_02
53:38
That's exactly what I was trying to refer to at the beginning. Yeah.
Corey
53:41
But what was the line of attack?
Corey
53:44
You know what? You just play on that base, like feeling that politicians get paid too much.
Corey
53:49
It's not something that everybody remembers every day when they work in politics. But certainly when we throw those attacks, we play on it. And that's that the
Corey
53:57
the average salary in this country and in this province in Alberta and in BC and whatnot is far lower than those salaries that politicians make, right? In every case, none of them are making the provincial average. I think it would be a shocking, shockingly bold move to be like our politicians just get paid the provincial average, right? Right, right. It would move you down to like $45,000, $55,000 from where you're doing. and and and i i think we have to ask ourselves why we're not willing to go that far but we think we've totally nailed it at the level we're at right now right
SPEAKER_02
54:27
right let's move it on it is time our over under our lightning round oh man so much excitement steven carter in or out on justin trudeau this week uh
Carter
54:36
out man how many trips is that guy gonna make to the states can
Carter
54:40
editorialize for a second he's made all the trips to the states he's made uh and then he's come to alberta so his model seems to be I will go to the states and I'll go to Alberta then I'll go to the states and then I'll go to Alberta then I'll go to the states and then I'll go to Alberta which I'm fine with ultimately
Carter
55:00
I will come to Alberta and I will try and color around the edges and help with EI and do things like that but I won't fundamentally address the issues that we have so he's playing a game on politics pipeline politics politics.
Carter
55:16
He opposes the pipeline that is the easiest to get in place. And he is doing so, you know, standing in front of us saying, look,
Carter
55:24
look, here we are.
Corey
55:27
Corey Hogan, in or out on Trudeau this week. My opinion, I don't think that enough has happened for me to really care or change the trips to the States.
Corey
55:34
That's, I feel like you see a story like that every second prime minister, you know, every time somebody comes in and they're like, oh, are they traveling too much? are they not traveling enough you know this is just sort of one of those you're never going to satisfy people things fine and he had reasons to do all of those trips it's not like it was it was just a totally random happenstance he was in the un signing what could literally be the biggest document of international relations ever right uh anyways i'm
Corey
56:01
i'm fine i'm i'm in because i was in last time but it's not like nothing was i in
Carter
56:05
in last time i
Corey
56:05
i don't even know i mean i'm so
Corey
56:08
you're so yeah yeah with this guy i i loved i loved some of his optics as always i hated most of his politics as always stephen
SPEAKER_02
56:16
stephen carter rachel notley reopening in a sense the conversation on northern gateway one out of ten on that strategy what do you think it's ten you like it listen
Carter
56:26
listen you cannot politicians cannot choose winners and losers the only people who should be able to choose the winners and losers are is is the process itself and the process should not be subverted by politics yeah
Corey
56:37
yeah that's that's great that's that's really realistic you're
Corey
56:41
you're welcome no look i'm i'm in because i think and i've said give a high score as well on that well yeah i mean i think that generally speaking pipeline projects get into trouble when you talk about the specifics and the details and they are broadly supported when you talk about them as a concept they are the safest way to transport goods right and
Corey
57:00
and people generally know we are going to be using oil
Corey
57:04
oil and gas products for at least the foreseeable future even as we try to wean off them right yeah so
Corey
57:09
so the more pipelines you have in the conversation the more the conversation stays at conceptual the minute there's only one left or two left people are talking about the details they're talking about who wins who loses let's make the conversation about pipelines and if we do that some of them will just naturally be approved through said processes and to do that you need to have a lot of pipelines in the conversation steven
SPEAKER_02
57:29
steven carter over under on seven over under on On seven, Bernie Sanders' handling of his pivot right now, going from being the guy to effectively being the message that wins in June. What do you think so far?
Carter
57:45
I think it's under because I think he's in a real tough spot to do it. Yeah.
Carter
57:48
And he hasn't been committed to it for the last two months, even though it's been pretty evident that he's going to lose. Corey,
Corey
57:53
Corey, what do you think of that pivot? Well, it's right on course, but this is sort of why I think he needs to play it out till convention. I don't think he can just turn off a switch. His supporters will keep running in the direction he'd started them, even though he's dug in his heels. He needs to slow down with them so he can continue to be the leader. That parade, he needs to come to an orderly stop.
Corey
58:12
He's doing exactly what he needs to do. I can't give him like super high marks because there's just nothing that warrants that kind of grade, but he's doing what he has to do.
SPEAKER_02
58:19
Corey, if you were to give Mayor Nye Nenshi a one-word strategy going forward, after he's done all the actions, after city council this week, ultimately what would it be to try to rectify this discourse?
SPEAKER_02
58:30
Well, I think silence.
Corey
58:31
You don't need to have every thought in your head come out your mouth. I
Carter
58:35
I was going to say stop.
Corey
58:37
Just stop. But you would do it in like a go sign. Yeah, because that's the way to do it,
Corey
58:41
The cognitive dissonance. You could
Carter
58:43
could do it in, yeah.
SPEAKER_02
58:44
Give me an over-under on six. Stephen Carter, John Kasich strategy to not campaign in the Midwest anymore?
Carter
58:52
Under. There's absolutely no evidence that his voters will move to Cruz. Corey?
Corey
58:55
Under because it was also a bad trade. Indiana's winner takes all, and the ones that he said that he's going to get where Cruz is still in the field are proportional. Here
SPEAKER_02
59:03
Here we are. Last question. Indiana, Trump, or Cruz?
SPEAKER_02
59:09
Look at that. You know, the last question I usually ask you is what you guys are reading or doing, but you're going to tell me where you're going skiing, and you're going to tell me which home reno you're doing so ultimately get ahead of that which non-ski thing are you looking forward to in the week ahead i'm
Carter
59:22
i'm gonna go mountain biking oh my fucking god cory
SPEAKER_02
59:25
cory who cares that's a wrap that's a wrap on episode 530 573 of the strategist my name is zane velgey with me as always cory hogan stephen carter and we'll see you next time
SPEAKER_02
59:41
listeners of the strategist podcast remember you can follow us on twitter at strategist pod and individually at carter underscore ab at cory hogan and at zane velgey and remember our itunes review contest is ongoing it ends this saturday may 7th give us a good review and write us something negative and you'll get some awesome political paraphernalia