Transcript
SPEAKER_03
0:03
This is The Strategist, episode 536. I am Zain Velji, and
SPEAKER_03
0:08
and Annalise is always with me, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. How are you doing, guys? Super. Really well. What do you have there, a Dr. Pepper? Is that what you're drinking?
Carter
0:14
I'm drinking a sugared beverage for the first time in quite some time. It's going to be a great show.
SPEAKER_03
0:20
Stephen Carter in an even more hyper state. That's exactly what we need.
SPEAKER_03
0:25
We're just off of a live show, guys. How do you think that went?
Corey
0:27
It was good. I think what our official tally is 170 people showed up.
SPEAKER_03
0:33
Okay, so we've got 170 people that marginally care about what we have to say show up. No, I
Carter
0:37
I mean they more than marginally cared about what we had to say. They all came saying they're going to heckle.
Carter
0:42
Not one of them heckled. I was so disappointed. You're calling out the
SPEAKER_03
0:45
the listeners right now is what I'm hearing.
Carter
0:46
The next live show I'm expecting to be heckled. Well, feel
Corey
0:50
feel free as always to e-heckle at Carter
SPEAKER_03
0:55
it's what he spends most of his time on anyways that's good
SPEAKER_03
0:58
okay let's let's let's get this started because we want to talk federal politics in this episode so let's move it to our first segment i'm
SPEAKER_03
1:05
i'm tapping yes i am tapping you're
Carter
1:06
you're not allowed to tap that's what they say on the twitterverse they say that we tap too much i get blamed but it's you it's a point of emphasis with the pin our first segment real
SPEAKER_03
1:16
real change versus ready for change versus change the channel let's talk talk about the three federal leaders and
SPEAKER_03
1:22
and where we're at. On our last show, on our live episode, you guys were both slamming the liberals quite hard. It seems like Justin Trudeau has had a pretty good week this week.
SPEAKER_03
1:31
Positive press, he's had Bill Blair come and say
SPEAKER_03
1:33
say that he's running as a candidate for Justin Trudeau and was approached by Tom Mulcair.
SPEAKER_03
1:38
Some of the policies finally seem to be sticking and having some salience.
SPEAKER_03
1:42
Are you guys eating your words a little bit?
Corey
1:44
Corey, I'll start with you first. Well, I don't know if I'm eating my words yet, but I'm going to start pre-chewing them in case oh my god it was a good week you have to give uh the liberals credit they sure made us look like we may have jumped the gun on that because i'll tell you the real change announcement that came after well i don't think it has any resonance with people outside of you
Corey
2:05
you know that small group of enthusiasts for politics the real change stuff was his democratic reform package um
Corey
2:11
um those were the same people who were mad about c51 so i think he undid a bit of his damage with c-51 changed the channel with that group uh the
Corey
2:20
the whole thing with uh
Corey
2:23
bill blair saying i i couldn't run from all care because of uh sovereignty issues in in quebec i thought that was a great reminder that was really traditional liberals very good
Corey
2:33
and then there was some stuff i think liberals were enthusiastic about or i think on the whole but others were not with his his commentary on power and politics where
Corey
2:44
looked a little more polished than i've seen him and certainly a little more battle-ready than I've seen him. I think it was a good week for
Carter
2:49
for him. I think he's in trouble on his ISIS comments. I mean, I'm going to give him the Bill Blair stuff. I'm going to give him the foreign affairs announcement. I thought that was excellent. But then he goes on power and politics to try and promote his point of view, which is his job as party leader, and immediately starts talking about ISIS. Now, the thing is, I agree with his policy on ISIS. I think that just continuing to bomb people isn't necessarily the smartest play we could make. training troops on the ground is going to be necessary and in fact maybe even putting boots on the ground is
Carter
3:18
is going to be necessary but
Carter
3:20
but instead of taking the basics of politics which is when you are making a point make sure that that point cannot be used against you he enabled it so that the conservatives Jason Kenney the attack dog for this government is attacking Trudeau today saying that he doesn't know anything about about the Isis missions he doesn't know how to what he's doing with the foreign foreign affairs issues and it's and it's got resonance because it's undoing everything that was done before here's
Carter
3:49
here's what he should have said isis
Carter
3:51
isis is bad we have to stop isis i'm
Carter
3:54
i'm going to put boots on the ground that
Corey
3:56
that well it's a 13 minute interview you stretch that out and you're going to have a few comments like the ones that can but
Carter
4:01
but this is the point though this is the point when you do a 13 minute interview you have to recognize that every time you do a 13 minute interview there's going to be stuff that can be used against you, unless you're always thinking, how do I make sure that's not going to get used against me? I
SPEAKER_03
4:14
I want to use that notion of a 13 minute interview as a launching point. You know, Corey, last episode, you had talked about one of the big problems that Justin
SPEAKER_03
4:21
Justin Trudeau and the liberals have right now is they're really long winded about what they're trying to do. And
SPEAKER_03
4:26
And you mentioned this notion of simplifying. Do
SPEAKER_03
4:28
Do you see that happening in the right direction? I know it's only less than, you know, 10 days from when you made that comment. But do
SPEAKER_03
4:34
do you see some signs that that's heading in the right direction of simplification no
Corey
4:38
no not really and i i'm not eating my words yet as i said i actually thought that one
Corey
4:43
one of the weaker parts of justin trudeau's week was this the the notion of bombing versus training i don't understand why in justin trudeau's world that's mutually exclusive that they don't necessarily have to be he
Carter
4:54
he doesn't he's been against the bombing from the beginning right so from the beginning he voted against the bombing and this is the problem when you offer up uh
Carter
5:01
uh when you when you put paint someone as bad like isis isis bad Okay, we all agree on that, don't we? And now we get to the place where, what
Carter
5:09
what are we going to do about it? You have to always reiterate that
Carter
5:13
that we are trying to eradicate that which is evil. So, quick question for you, Carter. Does this
SPEAKER_03
5:19
sort of policy position by Justin Trudeau, where he's trying to show he has three layers deep of knowledge on certain issues, is that a direct response to people calling him soft and having no idea that, or having no substance to his candidacy? think oh
Carter
5:32
oh i think that it is i mean what did they have 33 or 35 elements to the policy release last week um this is a big thing that they released this week it was fewer items i mean and and to me it was easily more easily packaged uh with the uh the foreign affairs pieces uh i actually like i say i really like this week's but i like this week's because it wasn't put together to try and make it look smart it
Carter
5:54
it was an actual policy position that was in touch with who i believe the liberals are and
Carter
5:59
and that made it more brand focused
Carter
6:02
focused for me whereas some of the other stuff has been uh less
Carter
6:06
less brand doesn't it get muddied
SPEAKER_03
6:07
muddied right like if you're not in a situation where half of your stuff is out there to make you look like you have substance and the other half is what you actually stand for is
SPEAKER_03
6:14
is the general public who actually at this point in time is not paying much attention doesn't it just get muddied cory well
Corey
6:19
here's what i liked about what's been happening over the past bit uh starting with the real change announcement that's pretty wonkish stuff but i I look back on my own campaign plans from 2012 and it was it was pretty clear strategy that if if we were going to talk about any of those things electoral reform democratic reform opening government all of that crap that that really resonates with certain a group of people is talk about it early don't muddy your campaign with it try to mobilize those those advocates
Corey
6:47
advocates for such things to get them on side to be your campaign volunteers when that makes sense
Corey
6:53
and i think that if they're if
Corey
6:56
you're going to give the liberals the benefit of the doubt it looks like they're now trying to roll things out sequentially in that fashion and and we'll probably end up at the meat and potatoes stuff they
Carter
7:04
they will end up at the meat and potatoes people are not paying attention the way we think that they're paying attention our listeners to this podcast are paying attention people
Carter
7:12
people who are uh listening to the the sports podcasts you know they'll get to it eventually these
Carter
7:18
these oh hold on i'm talking to two guys listen to the sports podcasts podcasts yeah this is just a launching off point for sports podcast you're
Corey
7:25
you're hoping that zach low has me on uh the low post someday that's my dream uh
Carter
7:30
uh yeah it's a good dream you have no
Corey
7:32
no idea what that even is i
Carter
7:33
i have no clue what that is okay
SPEAKER_03
7:36
okay i want to actually compare something that that's a little bit more it
SPEAKER_03
7:40
it may seem a little trivial but i i really find this interesting that we have a a battle of two slogans right now real change versus ready for change what What do you guys make of that with
SPEAKER_03
7:51
with the two progressive parties and the liberals and the NDP right now?
SPEAKER_03
7:54
And number one, what do you make of the slogans being so similar? Number two, is there a real way to kind of differentiate between one and the other and what they stand for and what they mean? I
Carter
8:04
If I could run a campaign with never using a slogan again in my entire life, that is what I would do. So 2012,
SPEAKER_03
8:09
Alison Redford, you had a slogan. Not your father's PC part. No, that wasn't
Carter
8:13
wasn't a slogan. That
Carter
8:14
was an ad. It was a single ad. We don't do – I don't do slogans. because slogans are, I
Carter
8:20
I don't know what they mean. I mean, Joe Clark, worked on Joe Clark's campaign in 2000. What was the slogan?
Carter
8:30
Like what? Three synonyms? Like what the hell are we doing here? Like what are we trying to get across? The thing that actually worked in 2000 with Joe Clark's campaign was another ad and it was a picture of Joe Clark and it said, said, not just another pretty face, an absolute attack on Stockwell Day, who we were, you know, Joe Clark was running against Stockwell Day, we were putting that up there. You cannot put forward these slogans and think, well, that
Carter
9:00
solves that problem. Okay, so,
Corey
9:01
so, I mean, it's, go ahead, Corey. I mean, I would challenge you to say, or to tell me any election that turned on a slogan.
Corey
9:09
Hope. Hope and change. His biggest hope and change was those sentiments maybe changed the election, but the fact that he put those words staccato on posters did not change the election. For
Carter
9:18
For me, it's about living a brand. The brand is far more important than the slogan. People know exactly what you say, how it all fits together.
Carter
9:28
The conservative brand is solid. After 10 years of running a government, they still are solid, which is pretty impressive. The
Carter
9:37
The Democratic brand I think is fairly solid under Thomas Mulcair, I think it could be more solid. And it's the Liberal brand that I was picking on last week and I'm still waiting for them to really put a few things together. I was pleased with most of it this week, we'll see what next week holds.
Corey
9:56
The last thing I'll say about this is when you talk about the Liberal real change slogan there. I hope that's not something they're going to carry too heavily into the campaign because it's really, it's one of those things, well,
Corey
10:09
well, the slogans you talked about there, Carter, that tripartite statement of synonyms, I can't remember exactly. Honesty,
Corey
10:17
trust. Well, see, this is the point. You hear them and they immediately go through your head the other way. But they apply just as well to other people. Who doesn't
Carter
10:24
doesn't it apply to?
Corey
10:27
are running on dishonesty?
SPEAKER_03
10:29
trying to say the other guy's not honest? Is that what you're trying to get Why this tendency then, right? You guys have collective decades of experience doing this. And why this tendency for campaigns to go with monitors that are easy to remember and easy to... Somewhere
Carter
10:41
Somewhere in some campaign handbook, it says, choose a slogan. And everybody says, slogan
Carter
10:45
slogan checked. Yeah. John Lassinger on that, you know, not just another pretty face billboard, wanted to run for Joe Clark.
Carter
10:57
Like, what the hell is that? What
Carter
10:59
What does that even mean? I want something that actually means something.
Carter
11:03
That's what we should be doing. Not just, not your father's PC party meant something. Yeah,
Corey
11:07
Yeah, in the future, we're going to have to do a whole show of things that people do on campaigns simply because they've been done on campaigns in the past.
SPEAKER_03
11:15
Just, okay, let's move on. I want to talk about Tom Mulcair. Now, you
SPEAKER_03
11:19
you guys were both a little bit high on Tom Mulcair last time. Is that fair to say? I think it's fair to say. That was my
Carter
11:23
my assessment. I don't want to be high on Tom Mulcair. I don't like Tom
SPEAKER_03
11:26
and his orange tie were very high on Tom Mulcair. and his prospects of becoming the next prime minister of this country. What
SPEAKER_03
11:33
What do you guys make of the week that he had? He had those issues with the sovereignty around Bill Blair, the ex-police chief now running for the Liberals. What do you make of Tom Mulcair and his week?
Corey
11:42
Well, that wasn't an own goal, right? That was inflicted by the Liberals, and I thought it didn't crush him. And I think that for Tom Mulcair, Quebec continues to be a pretty important battleground. There was a lot of discussion about his comments about sovereignty would be bad for the middle class in Quebec and whether that was a little too bloodless for a national leader, whether they should be saying, oh, my God, I would, you know, to the ramparts for this country. But on the
Corey
12:09
the whole, I don't know. It was a pretty non-weak for him, I think. That's my read of his last week. Yeah, I
Carter
12:14
I mean, I think that the Liberals took steps this week. I think the NDP showed up in Quebec today and did
Carter
12:22
And it was like the Bloc Québécois. Nobody noticed. Is
SPEAKER_03
12:27
Is a non-week fine? Like, middle of June is a week where you don't have any shots
SPEAKER_03
12:32
shots to your own foot fine? Is that okay in the middle of summer? Yeah, if you're
Corey
12:35
you're going to have a non-week, that's an okay time to have a non-week. I don't think
Corey
12:40
think it was particularly damaging to them.
Corey
12:43
About a week ago, the last day of session, there was a weird moment with a New Democrat screaming in the foyer. But, like, those are the only two incidents I can even think of for the New Democrats in the past week. Yeah,
Carter
12:53
Yeah, I think that the reality is we're about to enter nine weeks of non-weeks. everybody's going to get in on airplanes, get in cars, get on buses, and we're going to be talking about small ball. And I think that what Corey was referring to earlier with the meat and potatoes coming out later,
Corey
13:12
interesting. So what do you guys think? We go to daily podcasts for the next week? Daily podcasts. Daily
Carter
13:16
Daily podcasts. What happened today?
SPEAKER_03
13:20
Okay, let's move on to Stephen Harper and the conservatives. Now, last time you guys said that if
SPEAKER_03
13:25
if you were to offer 20 seconds of advice to the Conservative Party, it would be stay
SPEAKER_03
13:29
stay the course. Stay the course, stay the course, stay the course. And I'm going to refer to Corey's term right here.
SPEAKER_03
13:34
The Conservatives this past week had multiple own goals that happened. They had James Moore, another frontbencher, leave. They
SPEAKER_03
13:41
the Senator sex scandal by Don Merritt, the tireless youth advocate.
Carter
13:46
Tireless youth advocate. I
Carter
13:48
I like to keep myself surrounded by young women as much as possible. just for the advocacy yeah i mean advocating i am advocating on their behalf
Carter
13:58
we're gonna get in trouble for that well
Corey
13:59
well i was about to give a more honest statement like i can advocate for youth twice a night maybe
SPEAKER_03
14:07
oh what is your secret okay um let's first let's talk about those those issues in order uh james moore uh
SPEAKER_03
14:14
uh leaves uh the the harper front bench announces that he's not going to be a candidate in the next election cites the fact that
SPEAKER_03
14:21
that he's got a a son that needs a father uh gives multiple uh lengthy interviews about his departure and his time in government what's with
Corey
14:28
with these rash of uh politicians suddenly caring about their
Carter
14:31
well and and i mean james they raise themselves listen you know what i mean and and you don't want to criticize a father for for uh stepping back and spending more time with his family um but
Carter
14:44
but his family here comes the button here comes
SPEAKER_03
14:46
comes the butt his kid
SPEAKER_03
14:48
you know like everything
Carter
14:50
everything doesn't matter out of the womb i mean this is this is something that's been an issue for a long time it wasn't that big an issue uh james moore was allowing everybody to talk about him
Carter
15:02
him becoming a uh you
Carter
15:04
you know being a leadership candidate i think that there's only there's a couple of things at play one
Carter
15:09
one is they've all decided that stephen harper's not retiring win
Carter
15:12
win or lose after this election for a few years anyways in which case a few years outside of the the battlegrounds isn't necessarily a bad thing or they've all decided this is going to be the election where they get reduced back to a minority or they get kicked
Carter
15:27
and they don't want to be on the other side
SPEAKER_03
15:29
so last time you were telling me that that
SPEAKER_03
15:31
this government's been around for 10 years this stuff happens i mean i'm not saying you've changed your tune card
Carter
15:36
card i haven't really i'm a little bit i'm a little bit flustered on how to deal with james moore there seems to be a lot what what
SPEAKER_03
15:42
what about james moore is intriguing to you the things
Carter
15:45
things that are intriguing to me about james moore can all be read in frank magazine and then stuff i don't want to talk about on the podcast i don't want to be named in yet another civil suit although
Carter
15:54
although i keep waiting to be named in my most recent civil suit so i'm you know whatever's going on
Carter
16:00
just saying i'm just saying if you're gonna
Corey
16:04
sue me in an effort not to be co-defendant then Zane and I will just move on, I think. I
SPEAKER_03
16:08
I think we'll move on. I do
SPEAKER_03
16:10
do want to talk about that, though. I do want to talk about what this means, because Carter brought up an interesting point. Number one,
SPEAKER_03
16:17
these ministers, these senior ministers, who actually, I should mention, the ones that have left have been from not one concentrated geographic area, from across the country.
SPEAKER_03
16:26
Moore out east, you've got McKay on the other side of the country.
SPEAKER_03
16:29
You've got Ontario and Baird leaving from there. So it's all across the country this is happening.
SPEAKER_03
16:33
But have they reached a natural ceiling, Corey, Or do you think this is the latter, that they sense something is coming? Well,
Corey
16:39
Well, one of the things I've been wondering about for the past week since we had the conversation on the live show is, does this matter for the Conservatives? We've talked, you know, varying degrees of seriousness over the years about it being a one-man band. It's
Carter
16:53
It's a one-man show, for
Corey
16:54
for sure. And if it is, or if it's even close to that, it's
Corey
16:59
it's not surprising people would leave when they see that they're not getting the keys to the castle. Harper has not loosened the reins, as far as I can tell.
Carter
17:06
And he's not going to. His style is a decade old, and it will last for as long as he's in power.
Corey
17:14
Yeah, so where I struggle, you know, it's funny, because there's been more evidence of this since I said I think it's a problem for the Conservatives. But I
Corey
17:23
I don't know. I mean, do the Conservative voters care? Do people think of the Conservative Party as more than Prime Minister Stephen Harper? I mean, the
Carter
17:31
the conservative voters elected Rob Anders for, you know, how many years was it? Oh,
Corey
17:36
Oh, it was crazy.
Carter
17:36
crazy. It was 1997 until now. More than
SPEAKER_03
17:38
than a decade and
Carter
17:39
and a half. 18 years he served in government after
Carter
17:43
after promising to serve no more than two terms, I might add.
Carter
17:47
But it finally took the voters of Calgary
Carter
17:50
Calgary West to get a true nomination battle for them to be put out. Yeah.
Carter
17:54
Because he would have gotten elected again because the Conservative voters want the Conservative government and they're prepared to put up with weak candidates in order to get them. Are
SPEAKER_03
18:04
Are you telling me, Corey, that your sentiment around this is slowly coming to the fact that
SPEAKER_03
18:10
only the top of the ticket seems to matter for the Conservatives?
Corey
18:13
Yeah. I mean, I think that's a trend in general for political parties, unfortunately. But there's a reason that this week they launched HarperPack,
SPEAKER_03
18:21
right? Yeah, I wanted to talk about that next, but let's get into that right now. Well, they launched
Carter
18:24
launched HarperPack or they,
SPEAKER_03
18:26
they, you know, the nefarious
SPEAKER_03
18:29
nefarious thing. So for people who don't know, this is a, I guess the best way to describe it, a third-party organization called HarperPack, similar to what you'd see in the United States with progressive action committees trying to fundraise for a particular political cause. This one launched with names such as Jonathan Dennis, Zoe Annington, other individuals. Luminaries. Luminaries
Carter
18:47
of the conservative movement, sure. Let's go with that. I like Steven Taylor. I think he's a good guy. Okay, so they're
SPEAKER_03
18:53
they're looking to raise money and run ads, and they've already run one on the radio against Justin Trudeau, which was unobjectively, was brutal, was brutal.
Carter
19:03
I have no idea. On, like, Jonathan Dennis' own radio station. No one listens to radio podcasts for
Corey
19:08
for the future, I'm not sure. Jonathan Dennis, Pirate Radio, really big in Acadia. Yeah, huge
Corey
19:13
He and his mom. Let's
Corey
19:15
about this. Let's talk about this. Yeah, yeah, go ahead,
SPEAKER_03
19:16
ahead, Corey. You had
Corey
19:17
had an opinion on it, and then I want to chime in on the progressive response as well. But my feeling about it so far is it's a bad idea executed poorly.
Corey
19:26
The notion is really pretty stupid. It's taking this American style of a PAC, applying it to the Canadian context for no good reason. Because political parties can spend as much as they want outside of the writ. There's fundraising limits, but like anybody can spend as much as they want on politics. You don't really need to create a PAC in the Canadian sense. It's kind of redundant
Carter
19:45
redundant in a sense. You know what they say about PACs in the United States? they are great for giving money to the founders of the pack and
Carter
19:52
and when you look at the guys who are behind this pack I
Carter
19:54
I think that these guys are saying hey this is a great way for us to make some money let's
Corey
19:59
let's do that well I think they think it's at worst they're helping the cause and maybe make something I don't think any of them are that recently
Carter
20:06
recently unemployed thanks to the voter good voters of Calgary Acadia and that's
Carter
20:12
that's going to I
Carter
20:13
mean he's got to do something And his political future may be his political past when he was peddling IVR calls to candidates across, you know, throughout Alberta. Hey, I can make you some good IVR calls cheap.
Corey
20:29
Let me tell you something. I'm always looking for cheap IVR calls. So, Jonathan, if you're listening and that's what you're up to, at
Carter
20:35
Hogan, let's talk. I think the dialers are all going to be used for the Harper Pack. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03
20:38
Yeah, let's get even more inside baseball. That's what I'm hearing you say, Carter. Hold on. I want to scale this back a second.
SPEAKER_03
20:43
love us. What does this mean for third-party groups? Because I would not be surprised if there's a proportion or disproportionate progressive response, liberal response. Well,
Carter
20:52
Canada, which is already – There is Engage
SPEAKER_03
20:54
Engage Canada that's already
Carter
20:54
already – Yeah, I mean, this isn't the first – Let's talk about
SPEAKER_03
20:56
larger movement of these third-party groups. Do you feel regardless of what they try to do in their mission, Corey, that they're redundant and useless? Or is there any value to
Corey
21:06
to them? Okay, so – Let's talk about that. Let me finish the thought about it. It's a bad idea. So it's essentially just a way to pool money.
Corey
21:14
And you don't really need to do it to pool money. Create some sort of nonsense pack and call it a pack.
Corey
21:19
That's such a weird American thing to do. But this is Canada, and we don't have our Supreme Court knocking down every finance regulation we have. If this becomes a problem, and I suspect it's rapidly becoming a problem to a lot of people outside of campaign periods, unlimited ability to donate, unlimited expenditures, we're
Corey
21:37
we're just going to kill that next time there's a change in government. So I don't believe it's going to be a problem long for this world. Now when I say it was executed poorly, I don't
Corey
21:47
we're going to leave a space here and we're going to actually insert that clip. We
Corey
21:51
We can do that. We
SPEAKER_03
21:51
We can. We'll do that. We'll do that. We'll insert that Justin Trudeau
SPEAKER_02
21:54
Trudeau attack ad here.
SPEAKER_02
21:57
After months of mistakes, Justin Trudeau's poll numbers are free-falling. Canadians from coast to coast now think he is unfit to be Prime Minister. But who does Trudeau blame for his low poll numbers? he blames canadian voters that's right trudeau says canadians are cynical and that's why we don't like him if trudeau is so immature that he blames canadians for his problems can we really trust him to make hard decisions as prime minister
SPEAKER_02
22:28
so that's what i'm talking about that was terrible what
SPEAKER_03
22:30
what is with that music that like heisenberg music i have to go with the content
Carter
22:37
go with the content
Carter
22:38
i don't understand what they are trying to get across i mean this if trudeau blames voters i mean first of all talking about manufacturing a quote i i'm not the one who's jumping to defend trudeau on this podcast is that fair to
Corey
22:52
to say oh my
Carter
22:54
my god that was pathetic it was absolutely pathetic it was a
Carter
22:58
terrible idea poorly done to steal the phrasing from cory ogan it was unbelievably
Carter
23:04
unbelievably bad as a radio ad this brings Which brings the question to me, which radio station am I going to hear that on?
Carter
23:11
One of the things that happens in these campaigns is we hear these
Carter
23:15
these ads and then they never run. And David Akin has always done this thing. Okay, tell me where it's running. You know, tell me where it's running. Because sometimes these
Carter
23:26
these ads never happen. They put them up online. They get the free press.
Carter
23:31
telling you, watch this pack.
Carter
23:33
This pack, I want to see where they run stuff. stuff i want to hear i want to hear real people tweeting back that this actually happened i
Corey
23:42
excited there well let's distill this ad into it's it's like it was 30 seconds of crap but let's make it about its component parts justin trudeau is unpopular and when asked why he gave a flip answer that's why we need to spend money to tell you not to vote for exactly if he's
Carter
24:01
buy this radio ad.
Carter
24:03
I had to voice it myself.
Corey
24:05
It's like, what's the opposite of a tautology? It's like, you know, it's a self-defeating state. But by the time you get to the end of the ad, the very existence of the ad negates
SPEAKER_03
24:15
of the ad. I think it is the most brilliant meta ad I have ever heard in my life. It's like Keith Olbermann
Carter
24:20
Olbermann tweeting at everybody, obviously I'm not irrelevant because you're talking about me.
SPEAKER_03
24:28
interesting. I want to move on
SPEAKER_03
24:29
a little bit for
SPEAKER_03
24:29
for the sake of time. Let's talk about Don Meredith and this sex scandal that was broken by Kevin Donovan and the Toronto Star.
SPEAKER_03
24:36
What does this mean for the Harper government? I mean, another one bites the dust, I guess. Carter?
Carter
24:41
Listen, if Senator Duffy doesn't bring down Stephen Harper's government, I don't think that Senator Meredith is going to bring it down. This
Carter
24:49
This is the type of thing that it's
Carter
24:51
it's terrible to hear, but at this stage it's allegations too. I mean, we have to wait until such time as this actually becomes real. Mike Duffy's allegations are now in front of the court of law. We're hearing the evidence. It's continuing ad nauseum. It'll almost be as expensive by the time it's done as the audit of the Senate expenses. Well,
Corey
25:14
Well, and in a perverse way, I think the less popular the Senate becomes, the better it is for Stephen Harper. It doesn't matter that he's the guy who appointed half of these senators who are going through such, I
Corey
25:23
I don't know what you even say, bad times, issues. So people right now are just painting the entire Senate with this brush because there's enough going around on the liberal side of it as well. I'm sorry, the independent senators formerly known as liberals. And so I
Corey
25:40
think people are just starting to throw their hands up about the Senate as a whole.
SPEAKER_03
25:44
Yeah, I think that this is the beginning of the end of the Senate. Okay, I want to move on to our next segment. Our next segment called Shaking Burgers, Kissing Hands, and Flipping Babies, Summer
SPEAKER_03
25:54
Guys, this is, and I'll equate a summer tour just before a federal campaign. That's the closest thing to a tour. They're always on the road. They're always meeting new constituencies. There's parades, there's community events.
SPEAKER_03
26:07
Let's talk about some of the inputs that go into running a tour or a summer campaign or a summer strategy. And
SPEAKER_03
26:12
And what does success look like at the end of that time? So I'll start with you, Corey, on that, because I know you may want to hearken back to your time as ED of the Alberta Liberals or just talk broadly. Yeah, for the Liberals.
Corey
26:21
Liberals. I did a tour in Western Canada, and oh God, is that depressing sometimes. But the
Corey
26:29
thing about summer tour is it's so light, it's so fluff, it's just going to, as you mentioned, barbecues, parades. Yeah, you're
Carter
26:36
you're picking on existing events. You're
Corey
26:38
You're picking on existing events, and you're showing up and you're hoping the local cameras follow you around as you eat a corndog at the Stampede. Right. I mean, it's the lowest form of political discourse. And I don't see that that's going to change this summer. I don't get the sense that it would.
Carter
26:53
would. No, you kind of wish that they'd given out something vaguely resembling red meat for
Carter
26:57
for the masses to be adoring of them.
Carter
27:00
What do you mean
SPEAKER_03
27:01
mean by that? Explain that to me.
Carter
27:02
Well, I mean, today Trudeau said that he would not increase the GST.
Carter
27:07
Well, give me like a more meaningful tax cut or something like that. That you walk around and you say, listen, you may disagree with me on ISIS, but I know we can agree on that tax cut. Am I right?
Carter
27:18
Right? Like you need to have something that's kind of, you
Carter
27:20
you know, fluffy. Because the worst thing that you can do on a summer campaign is talk real policy. Well,
Corey
27:26
Well, and there's so much opportunity for gaffe as well because the stakes are so low. So let me tell you. Do you talk about policy gaffe
SPEAKER_03
27:32
gaffe or social gaffe? Social gaffe.
Corey
27:33
gaffe. Social gaffe. I was with Stéphane Dion at Stampede, I think, in 2007. And so we got him a corn dog, which he then proceeded to try to eat like corn on the cob on the side. He took one bite, made a horrible, like, stink face, and then tried to hand it to just some random person.
Corey
27:53
That's the kind of thing. No, and listen, Stefan is, like, one of the greatest guys in the world. Honest to God, he's such a nice guy, and he's so smart. But that was not his milieu. And you've had a lot of politicians lately, like Ignatiev, like Stefan, like Harper. Harper, how can you forget the leather vest? I mean,
Carter
28:12
vest is the defining moment of a summer event gone wrong. Do you remember the golf shirt that he wore during a briefing? That was terrible.
Carter
28:22
Yeah, and he comes out, and he's all mooby, and he's
Corey
28:24
he's got the golf shirt
Corey
28:25
and he just didn't look anything big. But, Zane, this is the problem. There's no such thing as a summer event gone right. There's only opportunity for everything. If you
Carter
28:35
you do everything right, is
Carter
28:36
is that the same when you're on a campaign?
Corey
28:38
I mean, this is effectively tour. Is that
Carter
28:41
that the same on tour? No.
Corey
28:42
No. Tour has announcements. Tour has visuals. Tour has people. Man-made events. You're going
Carter
28:46
going to things that you've created as your backdrop that you want to say. So you're in control. So if you don't want the candidate eating corn dog with mustard, there are no corn dogs with mustard. There's nothing that can go wrong. I mean, these are the days when a candidate's handed a beef rib and has to do something with it. Right.
Carter
29:06
And winds up with, as Joe Clark infamously wound up one time, with sauce
Carter
29:11
sauce from just under one eye to just under the other eye in kind of a happy face. And you're like, excuse me, Mr. Clark, can I get you like a... Not another pretty
Carter
29:22
this is what happens, right? You know, like literally
SPEAKER_03
29:24
literally it's like, hey, do you want to try our deep fried butter? So I guess the question is for people that may not be necessarily plugged into this, is this the only way it can happen? Because you said this is not a time to announce policy. We'll see. I'm going to push back and ask you why. Obviously, people may not be paying attention, per se, but is
SPEAKER_03
29:40
is this not a great time to lay the foundations? Well,
Corey
29:43
Well, I'll take that first, and I'll say maybe you're on to something. I know that for a very long time, the conventional wisdom has been people go to the cabin or cottage for all of you in Eastern Canada. The Eastern Canadian
Carter
29:54
listeners are going to the cottage, but they're incorrect.
Corey
29:57
You're wrong. Definitely cabin. It's definitely cabin. And that you lose too many people, and there's not enough utility. people aren't plugged in even if they are around home i
Corey
30:07
don't know i don't know if in a world of 24 7 news cycles and whatnot digital engagement yeah i don't know if that's true anymore uh and maybe there is a way that you can mobilize your base at the very least that's more than these
Carter
30:19
i mean is this another one of those campaign things
SPEAKER_03
30:21
things you do them
Corey
30:22
them because it's it's what's been that's a great question
Carter
30:24
i mean i think you have to do the summer tour because what else are you going to do because the summer tour what else
Corey
30:30
can you do i
Carter
30:30
i don't think you can do policy i don't think you can you can throw out big ideas and hope that the national media is going to pick it up and carry it to your audience
Corey
30:37
the way that i've always looked at summer tour is it's like the sign war you can't win the sign war you can lose the sign war and in the same sense that you can have a gaffe and look bad if you don't show up you look stuck up you look out of touch you look like you're not getting out to canada can you imagine if
Carter
30:51
if they didn't show up for true for stampede sure right what's you know so trudeau and and uh harper show up for stampede Mulcair doesn't come.
Carter
31:00
I mean, it's fair to say he's not going to win any seats here, right? Why would you put that on the docket? He's going to come anyways. Because this is the time during the 90 days that aren't your primary campaign that you go to the places that you're not going to win seats, you do what you have to do, and you're seen where you need to be seen.
SPEAKER_03
31:17
seen. Okay, so I want to get to the bottom of this question. So what does winning by not losing look like during the summer? What does that ideally
SPEAKER_03
31:23
ideally look like? If you're setting up a strategy, what benchmarks
SPEAKER_03
31:26
benchmarks marks or how do you ensure that your candidate gets there by by not losing what does that look like honest
Carter
31:30
honest to god the first thing is you just hope that they don't spill food on themselves seriously and
Corey
31:34
and the second thing is no hats no
Corey
31:37
really tough at stampede stampede
Carter
31:38
stampede you have to wear a hat so if you're gonna wear a hat during stampede it's gotta be the right hat it's gotta be fit exactly right
Corey
31:43
right i can think of a time david swan was wearing one of those like cowgirl like straw curling up hats oh
Carter
31:49
oh man i mean like some really bad hats yeah
Carter
31:52
and and and that's what you You have to do those things. You have to go around. You have to do all the little traditions that we all think are endearing. Justin Trudeau's got a yahoo. Not yeehaw. He says yeehaw.
Corey
32:05
yeehaw. He's going to get in
SPEAKER_03
32:06
in a lot of trouble. This is education for the stampede. Okay, I want to move it on to our last segment. The last segment, the
SPEAKER_03
32:12
the lightning round and the name game. Okay, so of the name game, yes.
Corey
32:17
This is where Carter just drops names of people he thinks he knows.
SPEAKER_03
32:20
Mainly he drops his name. Other strategies I respect.
SPEAKER_03
32:23
It repeats the name. so it starts with yourself um hang
Carter
32:27
on i got one no
SPEAKER_03
32:29
let's let's get this started okay of
SPEAKER_03
32:32
of the three parties which of the parties uh does it matter most to have a strong bench of candidates so which of the three parties does
SPEAKER_03
32:39
does it does it matter the most to have a strong bench of candidates well with you cory liberals i
SPEAKER_03
32:45
think it's i think it's the liberals too which which set of parties or which of the three parties has the best set of candidates i think
SPEAKER_03
32:51
also the liberals fortunately
Corey
32:52
fortunately for them i
Carter
32:53
i think the liberals do as well i mean i i don't i'd be hard-pressed to name many ndp candidates interesting
SPEAKER_03
32:59
interesting okay this past week president barack obama was on with mark maron on his podcast wtf pod over
SPEAKER_03
33:05
over under on 25 that we convinced one of the leaders to come onto our podcast oh we're gonna
SPEAKER_03
33:11
a leader for sure on this podcast that is that is a lot of false hope okay i
SPEAKER_03
33:17
would ask you an interesting set of questions the name game okay if justin Trudeau could recruit any Canadian from the broader public to be a candidate for him who should it be and who who would you want it to be Corey oh
Corey
33:27
yeah that's a that's a great question I wish it wasn't the lightning round we could kind of expand on let's do
SPEAKER_03
33:32
do that I mean I there's no rules here I set the rules I make them up I think
Corey
33:36
think that it needs to be uh somebody who covers him off on civil liberties on and I don't know necessarily who's a big name in that but that's what he needs to find somebody who just has chops on that Don
Carter
33:46
Don Iverson Don Iverson Don Iverson Mayor of Edmonton may be the most talented politician in Canada. Well, I'm
SPEAKER_03
33:52
I'm going to ask you another question. Tom Mulcair in the NDP, who does he need? Do you think Don leans more NDP than he does
Carter
33:57
does Liberal? I think Gregor Robertson. Gregor
Carter
34:00
Mayor of Vancouver. I think that Gregor Robertson would flip over the lower mainland to the NDP, and it would make a significant difference. Two very interesting answers by
Corey
34:10
Corey, do you have anything on that one? Well, that's a great answer because, of course, he's also somewhat Liberal-aligned. Everybody thinks
Carter
34:16
Gregor Robertson is a Liberal, but he's not running for Liberal.
Corey
34:19
Liberal. And you're right, and he would provide a whole battleground to the NDP. That's so close. The Lower Mainland's one of those. I'm going to go with that. That's a great answer. I'm stealing that. You're going to steal my
SPEAKER_03
34:27
my answer. Oh, yeah. Okay, well, I hope there's a little bit of disagreement on this one. What does Stephen Harper need? Or more specifically, who does Stephen Harper need from the broader public to run from him? Is it a CEO type? Is it someone who's military? What does he need and who does he need? Can I answer it in the negative? The answer to
Carter
34:41
to the negative, I hope, Corey, is the president. He does not need any more Rob Ford types. I know that Rob Ford never ran for him. Who does he have right now? He doesn't
Carter
34:49
doesn't have any right now because the people who have chosen to run for him are so low profile.
Carter
34:54
You don't get up to a Rob Ford level. So you're saying no
SPEAKER_03
34:57
no high profile candidates right now. If
Carter
34:58
If he keeps his nice low profile candidates that never talk and never speak to the media, i.e. Joan Crockett, who used to be a media whore, for lack of a better phrase.
Carter
35:09
stopped talking the second she was a nominated candidate and she's kept her mouth shut the entire time. Corey,
SPEAKER_03
35:14
do you have a person in mind, Corey? Yeah, Joshua Ray.
SPEAKER_03
35:18
Oh, no way. Oh, no,
Carter
35:19
Jean Charest? He wouldn't serve in
SPEAKER_03
35:20
Quebec is very interesting.
Carter
35:21
interesting. He'd be great. I love Jean Charest.
Carter
35:27
I think he sits out until such time as maybe there's a leadership.
SPEAKER_03
35:30
What's interesting, I asked you from the broader public, all of your answers are current politicians, but that's fine. I think that's interesting in its own right. What are we going to do,
Carter
35:36
do, pick Phil the plumber? Phil the plumber would be
SPEAKER_03
35:39
be great. Phil the plumber
Carter
35:40
plumber would be exactly who Stephen Harper is. What
SPEAKER_03
35:41
What was it in the 2012 campaign, Sarah Palin? Joe the plumber. Joe the plumber. That's it. Joe the plumber.
Corey
35:46
So Phil is like the Canadian. Fill us in with Joe
SPEAKER_03
35:48
Joe the Plumber. Last question. Which candidate or which party leader wins this summer? Carter, you first.
Carter
35:54
I think Trudeau because it's just shallow time. Corey?
Corey
35:58
Trudeau's got a leg up because it's shallow time. No, I mean, Trudeau's actually the only one who's got a chance of winning this summer. That's
SPEAKER_03
36:03
That's a wrap. Episode 536 of The Strategists. I'm Zane Veldry. With me, Corey Hogan. Stephen Carter. We will see you next time.