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Episode 535: LIVE from Calgary

2015-06-16

Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan and a live studio audience dissect the first NDP Throne Speech. How did the speech measure up? How were the other parties responses? And is Justin Trudeau the William Shatner of federal politics? Zain Velji, as always, picks the questions and keeps everybody in line. Get Thursday episodes, access to hundreds of old episodes, and bonus content on Patreon

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Transcript

Zain 0:02
This is The Strategist, episode 535. With me, as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter, and a live audience here in Calgary.
Zain 0:15
It's like they were coached, almost, yet they weren't. Very
Corey 0:18
well done. Yet they weren't. Guys, how you doing? We're doing good. Good. Doing really good. It's Throne Speech Day. It is Throne Speech Day.
Zain 0:24
Day. It's like Christmas for politicos.
Carter 0:25
It is absolutely Christmas for politicos. Corey spent a little extra time on the throne.
Zain 0:29
backstage good I did not hear the speech so that's fine it
Carter 0:33
it was not good okay
Zain 0:36
let's let's get right into it for our first segment let's start the tone from the throne throne let's let's start with our first segment about the throne speech so
Zain 0:44
so Corey and Carter talk to me about what the throne speech actually is because you know Corey you and I were chatting about this today and I'm like is this equivalent of the state of the union in Canadian politics what exactly is the throne Let's put some foundational elements into place. Well,
Corey 0:59
Well, it's probably about as close as you can get. It's not precisely that, and really the government can decide exactly what they want it to be. It can be something that's aspirational, we choose to go to the moon, that kind of thing, or it can be a
Corey 1:11
a laundry list of bills, which it has been in many times past.
Carter 1:14
Yeah, and today you saw a throne speech that was a little bit different than some of the throne speeches before when Alison Redford did hers in 2012. We tried to make it more about what her policies were, the overall policies, He's not necessarily everything we were going to pass in the session. This was very unique in that it was only
Carter 1:32
the bills that they were going to do with a little bit of stable and predictable
Zain 1:36
predictable language. Okay, so you talk about the notion of having a throne speech as being something aspirational, something visionary.
Zain 1:43
We didn't necessarily see that today. So before I get into that, into the weeds of it, what
Zain 1:47
what did you guys witness today with the throne speech? And for people that are listening or in our audience or that may have missed it, Do you want to maybe give them a little bit of a summary of what you saw, and then secondly, what you thought? It was like the
Corey 1:57
the anti-aspirational speech, and that's not a knock. That's exactly what they wanted to do.
Corey 2:01
The word you kept hearing throughout the throne speech was stable. Stable, stable, stable, stability, steady.
Carter 2:06
did you have in the over-under? I had five. I was so off. You had five in the over-under, and what were they, like 78?
Carter 2:13
Did anybody count? Stable and
Zain 2:14
and predictable was absolutely the moniker of the speech.
Corey 2:17
not only the words stable and stability, but they went to great lengths to tie their story into the
Corey 2:23
the story of every political party that's come before them. They talked about, hey,
Corey 2:27
hey, the Liberals were the first government, and now we're doing democratic reform. The UFA came next, and we really care about social justice and economic justice, and so on and so forth. And then the Socrats,
Carter 2:36
Socrats, and we're going to make our own money. I think that that was, in fact, in the speech.
Zain 2:42
Because it is the NDP, and I think they had the same type of ideas. is. So what was there? It was a very straightforward speech from the throne. It had three bills. Is there, I mean, let's talk about those three bills, actually. Well, actually,
Carter 2:56
actually, I want to stop one second. Stop the whole show. I just want to recognize Lois Mitchell.
Carter 2:59
Yes, do it. Lois Mitchell was sworn in as our new lieutenant governor on Friday, and her first act today was to read the throne speech, and I thought she was great. I actually thought that she really set a new tone that reminded me of Lois Hull, the last Lois, Lieutenant Governor.
Corey 3:16
Governor. It's a Lois thing, apparently. It's
Carter 3:17
It's a Lois thing. To me, it made the government a little bit more accessible than Lieutenant Governor Ethel, who wore
Zain 3:26
wore the military garb and always
Carter 3:28
always scared me. So now we have, for
Corey 3:31
for the first time in Alberta history, we have a female Chief Justice, a female Premier, a female Lieutenant Governor.
Carter 3:37
I would be interested to know how. Yeah,
Carter 3:43
Hand ring to the female vote.
Zain 3:45
It's true. Such a new Democrat right there. The sycophant in the orange tie. By the way, great title for your autobiography, just to let you know.
Zain 3:57
You were saying, you said that this was straightforward. And yes, I get we have a new LG in place. But I want to talk about the content a little bit more. Because we were sitting around, huddled around a laptop trying to watch this thing. and it was over before we even knew it. There
Corey 4:13
more pageantry than there was speech. Yes. But the idea of it being exactly what it was, I'll tell you, it's because if they made it that big aspirational speech and then they went on summer vacation, I don't think that would go over particularly well. I think that this is exactly what the speech needed. So Carter, tell us what there was, just for some context.
Carter 4:32
Well, I mean, all there really was was these are the three bills that we're going to do. I mean, there was an interesting tying in, And as Corey has mentioned, to the previous governments that have governed Alberta. But except the PCs. No, they mentioned the PCs.
Corey 4:44
PCs. But they mentioned the PCs. And how the PCs saved the energy industry but then screwed it up. But don't worry. Oh, okay, yeah. But then saved it. Everybody
Zain 4:52
the law here. Oh, yeah. Everybody likes
Carter 4:54
likes law here. But I think it was very quick and very to the point. So you saw an explanation of Bill 1. They're going to stop corporate and union donations and maybe some other stuff. So
Carter 5:06
they threw in the end maybe some other stuff. Then they talked about Bill 2, which is we're all paying more taxes. But don't worry, it won't be the highest taxes in Canada or anything crazy like that. And then they did Bill 3, which was really all about the stable and predictable funding of anything you may care about. So health care, education,
Corey 5:25
Well, and that was the lead-in, and they said, and this is what we're doing right now, but don't
Corey 5:29
don't worry, everything else is coming in the fall. And then they did a laundry list of things that were priorities,
Corey 5:33
priorities, I suppose they could say. So it was an interesting way for them to put out their priorities without actually having to do anything on them. What's
Zain 5:39
What's the danger of having a throne speech that isn't aspirational? You know, we were chatting about earlier today that
Zain 5:45
that past governments have put out throne speeches that mark
Zain 5:49
mark two years down the road. They have a vision and a mission that
Zain 5:53
that is longer than a political cycle. Michael, what is the danger of having a throne speech that
Zain 5:59
that is so tactile and that is so limited, both in scope but also in duration, in time for what they want to execute? I
Carter 6:05
I think that the real danger is you forget why you're actually elected to government. You're not actually elected to government to pass these two supply, you know, the tax and supply bill and the eliminating of corporate and union donations. You're actually elected to government to have a vision. And that vision should be longer than a few bills. That vision should be, this is what we'd like our society to actually look like. And did
Carter 6:27
did you see any of that today?
Zain 6:28
word of it. Interesting. I
Carter 6:29
I mean, that's what I saw in Alison Redford's first throne speech, mostly because that's the one I was helping to craft. Fuck, it was the only one I've ever liked, really.
Carter 6:42
The rest of them were shit, shit, I tell you. But
Carter 6:45
But I think that this one was just,
Carter 6:49
this is what we're going to do.
Zain 6:50
do. We have to do a throne speech. speech, it'll be over soon.
Zain 6:52
Okay, so lack of vision, some may call it efficient. Corey, I think you've got another take on that, potentially. Caretaker. I mean, it's a caretaker.
Carter 7:00
know what? There's going to be another throne speech. Your first speech.
Corey 7:03
speech. It absolutely is. What
Carter 7:07
What are people saying? We should put the church to their part. What are people saying? They're saying they're bored. They're saying that there was nothing to it. They're saying, is this all I can expect from a new democratic government? My answer is yes. Oh,
Carter 7:19
hold on. The sycophant? In
Carter 7:21
orange tie? In the orange tie.
Corey 7:24
The opponents of the New Democrats, the people who perhaps voted with
Corey 7:28
with not a lot of enthusiasm. The message that you've been saying on this podcast for weeks now is go slow. Go slow. You don't want to scare people. It's like being a horse whisperer. The New Democrats are coming up to Albertans and they're saying, easy, fella. They're stroking the side.
Corey 7:43
What are they stroking?
Corey 7:47
the idea is it's going to be uh it's going to be all calm all serene until all of a sudden we're saddled and there we go new democrats for 40 years that's the intention of this of this uh of this government right now it's what are you going to do like you can't have that
Carter 8:03
that how about this how about you tell me what health care is going to look like i mean stable and stable funding for a system that no one likes okay so let's talk about what was missing no one likes We're going to have stable funding. What
Zain 8:12
What was missing for you,
Carter 8:14
Tell me what health care is going to be like in the future. Tell me where you're going to take us. Tell me why we should be spending more money in post-secondary education, not just that we will. Don't just send a message to the unions, don't worry, we got you. And that's what today's throne speech was about, is don't worry, we got you, unions. Stable and predictable funding, and maybe we'll take care of that pension stuff later.
Corey 8:32
later. You're defining vision too narrowly. The vision was people who were excluded will not be excluded in the future. We're just figuring things out. We
Corey 8:39
We don't know what the hell we're doing
Zain 8:43
you're defending this throne speech, and I'm not sure if that's the intention you took coming on stage to be the ardent defender. It always is. I don't know why I'm attacking you so much. I don't know.
Corey 8:54
Carter's loving it. Yeah.
Zain 8:55
Yeah. But you must have seen
Zain 8:58
seen something in this speech that you wish was there. You probably had a few gaping holes with this speech as well. What was
Corey 9:06
was missing for you? It's politics versus policy. I think politics, it was the right speech. Policy, I mean, the lefty in me wanted to see a bit more of that social justice stuff. I wanted to hear more particularly about the minimum wage. They made it pretty clear in the throne speech this is going to happen, but some more concrete steps towards that, income inequality in general.
Corey 9:26
Stephen, you're right, I would like to see more about health care.
Corey 9:29
would have been great, but I don't think that that would have helped them move the agenda on those matters if they did it right now. No,
Carter 9:35
No, but they don't have to
Corey 9:36
to have an agenda. They have
Carter 9:36
have to have a vision. Well,
Corey 9:37
Well, the expectations to follow up on that vision would have been significant. They can't do that right now. They know they can't do that. They would be setting themselves up for failure.
Zain 9:44
There is one thing that I found interesting, and I think a lot of folks in this city, especially Calgary, would find interesting in this throne speech. It was very tight, very small, but there was a reference to the Canadian energy strategy. I want to talk about that a little bit more. Oh, my baby.
Zain 9:58
Of course, yes. Oh, yeah. Well, let's talk about what that means embedded in a throne speech that I think many would classify as
Zain 10:06
as focusing around social justice issues around, you know, spending, finances, etc. And then you have this hat tip to the Canadian energy strategy. What do you make of that? The
Carter 10:16
strategy when it was devised back, you know, when I
Carter 10:19
I was there. And
Zain 10:20
was it? OK, yeah.
Carter 10:21
you know, when I was there. It was devised to talk about shipping oil, which the New Democrats have not been big fans of. It was also devised to talk about the environment. Developing provincial standards in Alberta that led the nation. Now, we already lead the nation in most of our provincial standards, but we don't talk about it enough. And now the New Democrats are in a position, if they adopt the framework of the Canadian energy strategy as it was devised, they actually have an opportunity to talk about the environment, shipping oil, getting oil across British Columbia or across the country or down into the United States. Whether it's refined or not, we have to put it in a pipe and we have to get it to market. Corey?
Corey 11:02
It's just their way of saying, not only do we have a plan for energy, but we're going to work with people on the plan. Yeah,
Carter 11:07
Yeah, we're not abandoning everything that happened before. Exactly. And
Corey 11:10
And on top of that, subtly reminding people that they have better relationships with some of their
Zain 11:14
their provincial counterparts than the PCs have. So I think, Carter, you mentioned one important thing that I want to catch on there, and it wasn't necessarily about the content of what you're saying, but... Well,
Carter 11:23
nice. It's about the content.
Zain 11:23
Because I brushed through most of that. No, I mean,
Carter 11:26
mean, it's nice. I like to know where I stand. I only
Zain 11:27
have a certain limit of your self-congratulations that I can take.
Zain 11:38
have been in the room, part of the architecture creating a throne speech. I want to talk about that a little bit more. What does the
Zain 11:47
the creation of something like this look like? Now, you said that when you did it with Alison Redford, it was something that was a little bit more aspirational, a little visionary. What is the process of getting a throne speech first drafted, created, and then read? Well,
Carter 12:01
I mean, it's going to sound a little bit crazy, but you want people to understand exactly one thing that they're going to take away from it.
Carter 12:06
So today it was about the three bills. So yes, there were three things, but these are the three things that we're going to do. They didn't really put any padding around the edges to say this is why or the context of it. It was understood that this is what the people would want.
Carter 12:24
When Alison Redford was giving her first throne speech, she was unknown to the general population. The general public hadn't voted for her. It
Carter 12:30
It was only a select group of people who bought PC memberships and maybe a few thousand that were given away.
Zain 12:40
I've got a few follow-up questions.
Zain 12:44
Now, do you want to defend the fact that it is well within the rules? It is well within the rules. Okay, perfect. Why don't you do that? Yeah. But
Carter 12:51
had to introduce her. We had to introduce a broader vision. And I think that the one thing that we wanted people to take away was, Don't worry, we've got a vision, and it's better than Ed Stelmax. So that was the driving force behind the first throne speech, and it was also this reinforcement of the brand image that we'd created for her. Now, the first throne speech, I'm sure everybody in the audience remembers it.
Corey 13:18
Intimately, yes. Yeah, I mean,
Carter 13:20
mean, it's here for those who remember the throne speech. Yes. Yes, it
Carter 13:26
was really that, you know, thank you.
Carter 13:31
One guy remembered really late. Oh, yeah, okay,
Carter 13:34
I remember it now.
Carter 13:37
It was the idea of a mother of a young daughter and daughter of aging parents, and that throne speech was defined almost from that lens, which made it awkward when Don Ethel read it.
Zain 13:51
Okay, so you told me what it was about, No, but I want, get me deeper. How did it get made? Was it you sitting in a room with the writers making this thing? We had one writer. Okay. We had one writer, Tim Giannuzzi, who
Carter 14:02
wrote all of the premier speeches and was still in the premier's communications office when Prentice arrived. He is an excellent speech writer, absolutely brilliant, and he wrote everything that the premier had said during the leadership race and then into the government. He wrote everything. He was the writer of the Canadian Energy Strategy speech that she gave in Toronto as well. He wrote, you know, like, so he was able to craft the ultimate speech. We gave it off to one writer.
Carter 14:33
I think sometimes you'll see a team of writers. I'd be very surprised if it was a team of writers today. Today felt like one writer. Yeah, well, it was so
Corey 14:40
so short. I mean, it was like a diary entry. Dear diary, today I will be the government.
Zain 14:49
Was that, was that, is that what you wrote while you were ED of the Alberta Liberals? Was that your diary? Is that an excerpt from, uh, cause,
Corey 15:00
that's a good lead in though to the other side, how we write the response. And that's
Zain 15:03
that's what I wanted to get to. Tell me, tell me what a response looks like, cause I don't even know who gave the response today. Maybe because. Oh yeah.
Corey 15:08
Or what the response. It takes a number
Zain 15:10
number of different forms. And often,
Corey 15:12
liberals being liberals, every liberal said, that may be the part in response, response, but now let's give nine individual responses, too. You love
Corey 15:19
Liberal Party. Oh, you've got to love the Liberal Party. Party, yeah.
Corey 15:21
The Liberal Party is actually just a loose confederation of people who hate each other marginally less than the Conservatives.
Carter 15:29
No, in fairness, in fairness, this caucus has never been more cohesive. This
Corey 15:34
This is true. This is true. I'm not even sure that it's the most cohesive caucus that
Zain 15:39
that the Liberals have. The internal contradictions of David Swann.
Zain 15:43
No, I don't want to derail you. Go ahead. I don't want to be real on that. No,
Corey 15:46
want to be real. When you're the opposition, your desire at a time like that is to be oppositional. I think that's a problem the PCs found themselves in today. Are we going to talk about that later, or should I kind of rant about that? Rant about
Zain 15:57
about it, and then I'll
Zain 15:58
you for talking about it right now.
Corey 15:59
Well, the PCs stood up, and they said in response to Bill 1, which was the one, ban corporate union donations. Rick McIver, their interim leader, is like, well, we hate that bill.
Corey 16:12
Everybody likes that bill. That should
Zain 16:15
should be explained. This is a bill that when polling was done in the public sentiment- Oh, it's like 90%.
Zain 16:21
loves this sentiment of banning corporate and union donations to get
Corey 16:24
get that out of our politics. And on top of that, it's not like their opposition is going to stop anything. So I think they may have to do a bit of a mind shift change here.
Zain 16:31
I want you to make your point, but you were saying in a past episode that Rick McIver would be- An idiot.
Corey 16:39
I think I said, there is no way he is going to be that stupid. stupid. I believe that was my exact words. Yeah.
Corey 16:49
Yeah. I mean, what can I say? Apparently he was.
Zain 16:56
that to me, because I don't think I even understand why. No,
Corey 16:59
this is the dumbest move ever. So let me unpack this for you. Yeah, please
Corey 17:03
It's not just that it's stupid. Patronize me
Zain 17:05
patronize the audience. Go ahead.
Corey 17:08
It's not just that He said he is opposing something that's popular, and he's opposing something he can't change. And it's not even just that he's, like, this is the first post-election glimpse of the PCs most people are getting. It's none of those things, even. It's that he
Corey 17:21
he has a caucus of eight additional members, and he's just given any one of them an excuse to bolt.
Corey 17:26
He's given them the opportunity to stand up and say, you know what? On principle, I
Corey 17:31
I can't stand with these guys anymore. I'm just sick of this. We need a change from the past. I'm going to go sit as an independent. Like, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but he's opened the door and said, guys, walk out if you want. It'll be on me. Any
Carter 17:41
Any MLA that was looking for the opportunity to walk out, got
Zain 17:44
today. Just found it today. Absolutely.
Zain 17:45
Okay. So we'll get to that, and we'll dig deep on the PC side of things in our next segment. But continue
Zain 17:51
continue on with telling me what a response looks like, because you were halfway through it,
Carter 17:55
it, and then you
Zain 17:55
you got derailed about calling Rick McIver
Corey 17:57
McIver an idiot. When you're in opposition, you want to be oppositional. You feel that's your job to a certain extent. It's what's on your letterhead. You think that that's the role that you've been given. And as a result, you find yourselves opposing things for the sake of. And now when you're writing a response to a thrown speech like the one, I remember your thrown speech, Stephen. I wasn't in the communications department, but I remember the discussions about it. And Raoul Sherman was newly leader. And there was some notion that, you
Corey 18:26
you know, let's just find everything that's totally disagreeable in the speech and going through and then just like a laundry list. And that was the problem. It became a laundry list of petty grievances, and it didn't focus on the vision, which was a real failing. Which is
Carter 18:38
is really the wild rose's weakness, right? The wild rose has always stood in opposition, even when they weren't necessarily the official opposition. But now, you know, the last two governments, they stand in opposition, and they're the ones who are going to have their voices heard. But
Carter 18:51
But just because you oppose something isn't necessarily a reason enough for people to vote for you. You
Carter 18:56
You need to oppose something or, better yet, present an alternative vision, which is
Carter 19:01
the third party in Alberta politics tends to do so well.
Carter 19:04
Because the third party is the ones that actually get to stand out and say, you know what, I like pieces of this, I like pieces of this, this is where we would go.
Corey 19:12
What Rick McIver should have done and what the PCs need to understand in a hurry, what the Wild Rose have never understood, in my opinion,
Corey 19:17
is that the throne speech, you're right, is about a vision. So give a competing vision out. You've got a problem with each of those bills, that's fine. You're going to debate each of those bills in due course. If
Carter 19:25
If I was opposing this throne speech, I would have said, where are we going with health care? Let me tell you where I would go. Yeah.
Carter 19:30
And I would give a vision for health care and how health care would be more accessible for the average Albertan tomorrow
Zain 19:36
I was in the government. You are hitting on my next question here. That is what you would do. Corey, if you were writing the opposition speech, I know you agree with a lot of it. Yeah. Well, because. Yeah, we get it. But
Zain 19:48
if you were writing the response to this, where would you start? Where would you tackle this? And where should the other parties be right now in terms of fighting this speech? It depends
Corey 19:56
depends on where I
Corey 19:57
I am. I have a different answer if I'm the Wild Roses or if I'm the Alberta Party.
Corey 20:01
in both cases i think you could look at bill one and say that doesn't do enough uh the the text of the bill is out and they're not reducing the contribution limits so it's still fifteen
Corey 20:11
fifteen thousand dollars thirty thousand in election years so kidding no so all this does well
Corey 20:16
maybe they'll accept it through amendment maybe they'll
Corey 20:20
they'll amend it and maybe this is a chance that they can say look we work with everybody that's quite possible but uh
Corey 20:25
uh they may be weak there uh And the increases, the wild rose, of course, you attack them as tax increases.
Corey 20:34
In general, though, vision is the Achilles heel there. Now, they
Corey 20:38
they may get a pass. If the other guys come and say, where is your vision on this stuff, though, they've created a pretty powerful impetus for the Democrats to
Carter 20:47
Minister Hoffman has stood up and said there will be no significant changes in health care. The throne speech didn't address health care. I don't know if anybody else knows this. What's the number one issue to all Albertans in every election?
Carter 21:01
Come on, a little bit more.
Carter 21:04
You know what? They were afraid. Your chorus
Zain 21:06
chorus grew to four, but okay.
Carter 21:09
This is not a very well-trained audience.
Zain 21:12
That was awkward for all of us.
Carter 21:16
Are you going to get to the next question in the next section? Are we still in the same section? We are in the same section.
Zain 21:19
section. You're just babbling on about what you've done. We've been on this forever. Reading your resume. Okay, next section. Let's move it on.
Zain 21:26
speech from the game of thrones let's let's talk about this because new legislature sessions are times for renewal uh
Zain 21:34
uh if you were to witness some sort of massacre at the legislature and you could only i'm not i'm not spoil yesterday but if you could only take five mlas or senior staff with you to form a new political party or political island who would you take?
Corey 21:52
Brian Topp, he's your Tyrion. He's the guy who helps you figure things out behind the scenes, run your cities, so to speak. So Brian Topp, chief of staff of the ADP.
Corey 22:01
You know, I'm an organizer, so I think all politicians are replaceable. I'm going to focus on
Corey 22:07
on the staff here.
Corey 22:10
Okay, so you've got Brian Topp as one. Yeah. You want to jump in here?
Carter 22:13
Well, I mean, I think you have to take Rachel Notley. She's the actual face of the rebellion, as you were. Mother of dragons. She's the mother of dragons.
Zain 22:22
laugh. I don't watch the show.
Carter 22:25
She has to be brought along. She's the one who was able to rise out of this as the phoenix that made all the change. You have to keep her.
Corey 22:33
Then I think you start looking at your most stable, tested, proven people, I think, Brian Mason. Which
Carter 22:40
Which you pretty much run out of.
Carter 22:42
You can't get to
Zain 22:43
five, are you telling me? No, no,
Corey 22:44
He's right. Brian Mason would be there for sure. He'd help you rebuild because he's been there before. So you talk about five people. He was one of four, and he managed to get two.
Carter 22:53
two. I mean, one of two that actually has created this. The next one, I think, has to be Joe Sisi. He's the link to Calgary. He'll be the senior minister in Calgary. He is the senior minister in Calgary. I think already that people are looking to him with pretty big expectations that he's going to be significant.
Corey 23:10
then finally I'd pick Rick McIver because bringing the fucking stupidest man in the world with you
Corey 23:16
a great way to look like a smart person. So, Ethan.
Zain 23:22
What? Just tell me.
Zain 23:25
Yeah, he's a nice enough guy. I mean, he sold billboards. I mean, we lose the audience.
Corey 23:34
Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, you pick someone who makes you look smart, so.
Zain 23:42
Hold on. We need to have a moment here.
Zain 23:46
Wow. That took a nasty turn at the end. Yeah, it did. It was a little strange.
Zain 23:55
Well, I want to pick someone other than Rick McConver. You picked four government people, yet you've been railing on the NDP. I'm going to pick Greg
Carter 24:04
some Greg Clark supporters
Corey 24:05
supporters in the house. Someone
Carter 24:06
Someone needs to be hopelessly optimistic.
Corey 24:13
That's good timing. That's so good. That's nice.
Carter 24:17
We're going to get in so much trouble from that little sound. Yeah. You
Corey 24:20
You know, the one
Corey 24:21
we didn't name who we should have brought is the only one who carries a weapon, the speaker at arms. Oh,
Carter 24:26
Oh, yeah. The sergeant
Corey 24:26
sergeant at arms. Brian?
Zain 24:32
There you go. I mean, that's who we really
Zain 24:33
need. Okay. So this is interesting to me. No one from the Wildrose that you would take on this new political... people
Carter 24:38
people worth taking from the Wild
Zain 24:42
Even for amusement, there's nothing.
Zain 24:45
Brian Jean is your leader of the opposition. You think he does not stand for anything in your new political world? He's Bruce Bolton to the people who are...
Carter 24:55
There's not a ton of Game of Thrones fans here.
Carter 24:58
It's the biggest show of the season. No, I mean, Brian Jean's a wet piece of paper. You just poke at him, he falls apart. There's nothing to him.
Zain 25:08
segment's going to get you into a lot of trouble. Let's move on to our next segment.
Zain 25:12
Best of the rest. Let's talk about, firstly, Corey, we hit on the PCs. Yes, we talked about Rick McIver coming out and opposing this piece of legislation that's going to be working its way down the road. But
Zain 25:22
But for the first time in 40-plus years, this party is going to be sitting on the opposite side of the benches. Lay out for me what it looks like to be a PC today. And I know we've discussed some of these points, but now with session underway, what
Zain 25:35
what does it mean to
Corey 25:35
to be a PC see in third place? Well, that's about the size of the caucus. Well, it is exactly the size of the caucus. Nine that I had with the Liberals. Also, very
Corey 25:47
It's a tough size, right? Because you're at a size where everybody
Corey 25:51
everybody is potentially a leader, which means nobody gets listened to and nobody can actually lead. You
Corey 25:56
You need to have leaders and followers in a caucus. That sounds really crass. And all of these guys think they're leaders to a certain extent.
Carter 26:02
And to the liberal analogy, I mean, the liberals always got elected because of who they were, not necessarily the party brand that they carried. So they were very keen to their own loyalties. They knew exactly what they needed to say in order to stay elected. And I'd be willing to bet that the nine that are there like being elected and want to stay in that position. I would doubly, I
Corey 26:24
I would emphasize you're right. And they probably believe they are the ones that are still there because of their personal brand.
Carter 26:29
Everybody else lost because they weren't good.
Carter 26:36
I mean, dumbass luck will never enter into their thought process.
Corey 26:42
But that's tough. It's going to be very tough. And I think we've already seen with Bill 1. Dumbass luck, but it's going to
Corey 26:48
a lot of tough,
Corey 26:49
They're under the belief that their opposition matters. I mean, that might sound a little crass, but look, the fact that they oppose Bill 1 will not change a line of Bill 1. Well,
Carter 26:58
Well, what it changed, though, is the headline. Yes.
Carter 27:01
know, so now the headline is, Rick McIver's an idiot, says Corey Hogan.
Carter 27:08
that becomes the story of the day tomorrow. I mean, Don Braid, in his article for tomorrow, released today, basically is saying he leads with Rick McIver's lunacy. Yeah.
Carter 27:19
So, I mean, that's not the type of media, that's not the type of first
Zain 27:23
first step you're looking for. Corey, you've been in this position, nine people, third place, right? This is a mirror to where you were.
Zain 27:29
What was the roadmap that you guys had to... Did you see what happened to the Liberal Party? No.
Corey 27:35
I mean, you want to talk roadmaps. It's...
Corey 27:38
Oh, man. Okay. I'm getting flashbacks. I thought that was
Zain 27:41
Tell me about the roadmap from 9 to 1. How do you get from 9 seats to 1 seat? Yeah.
Corey 27:52
Practice, just like... No, you want to know how you get from 9 to 1? You get from 9 to 1 by doubling down on the wrong things and closing your mind to other things. It's a lot
Corey 28:05
lot of bad habits that are built up because of that individualism. They can't check their egos. They can't move aside. And I'm not knocking anyone individually in the Liberal Party. I'm pretty much knocking all of them. Why would you single anyone out when they're all the same? No, but they all had agendas. They all had their own agendas. I couldn't. It was crazy. like sometimes there would be a press release that went out and
Corey 28:29
before the press release could go out all nine had to sign off which is nuts in its own right and then there would be like three supplementaries that followed like Laurie Blakeman had something she wanted to say and it wouldn't be like oh an addendum by Laurie Blakeman would be like well let's go do another press release on this right now and they'd jump on top of their own news story oh
Corey 28:43
and you're gonna see unless
Corey 28:45
unless they can all understand that they are all servants of a greater cause and I'm not sure they are I'm not sure the PCs are a cause anymore but if If they can't get into a boat together and start rowing in the same direction, they're going to be at one in, well,
Corey 28:57
well, it won't take them two elections. Let's put it that way.
Zain 28:59
So we talked about this in past episodes at length, but I do want to touch on it again because there's a recent
Zain 29:04
recent development where the
Zain 29:05
the PCs are now, as a party, at zero staff.
Zain 29:08
They have absolutely zero paid staff right now. No,
Carter 29:10
No, Troy Wason was just made managing director.
Carter 29:16
director. Interim managing director, which has got to be the most stable job description ever.
Carter 29:21
I mean, if you know Troy, I think we all feel good that he's finally got some stability in his life. So, two people knew Troy, that's good.
Zain 29:32
people who knew Troy think that's hilarious. No, it's a problem.
Carter 29:35
the joke, I think there's
Zain 29:37
there. I'm going all the way. But what do you make of that? The fact that the PCs are, you know, okay, whether it's zero or one or a half hires right now, in a party that seems to have the door open into many people potentially leaving. It's chaos, but is there any path forward?
Corey 29:56
Yeah, and it's one where they all have to agree they're in on it together, and they have to make a commitment. First of all, they've got to figure out any debts they have.
Corey 30:05
They have 0.5 staff, let's say. They fired everybody or laid them off,
Corey 30:14
stabilize that financial ship, I think the rest of it's almost moot. Well, what
Carter 30:19
what usually holds a political party together is a common vision, a common core of ideals, something that you believe in. My argument for a long time has been the only thing that the PCs believed in is we're in power. Well, and checks that
Corey 30:33
that don't bounce help, too. Yeah, checks that don't bounce
Carter 30:36
bounce and we're being in power.
Carter 30:39
Those things are over now. So of the nine remaining people in caucus, you can certainly see different clumps of people who have very different ideological bets.
Zain 30:48
Let's talk a little bit about the Wild Rose. Official opposition heading into this legislature.
Zain 30:54
What do they need to do to be effective from the get-go this summer for this first session and moving forward till this fall? What do they need to do to
Corey 31:02
to be effective? They're striking a good balance right now. They've created this committee that has both the New Democrats and the Wild Rose chairing it to look at election reforms and all of those issues. So they look like, yes, we're playing ball where we should be playing ball. all. But they've also hit really hard on things like the new energy chief of staff, the fellow who was an anti-oil lobbyist. And they're going to continue to hit hard on the taxation issues and the spending issues. I thought it was pretty funny.
Corey 31:29
Today, they came out and they said, well, you can't say all of this money is going to go out and not say how to spend it. That
Corey 31:34
That was Bill 3. Totally ignoring Bill 2 was we're going to take a bunch of money from corporations and rich people. But they're
Corey 31:42
they're going to keep doing that. And it's going to be pretty successful for them. They're They're going to be able to drive that home for the next couple of months. My problem
Carter 31:48
problem with the Wild Roses has basically
Carter 31:51
basically been they continue to hit one note, and they know how to hit that one note really hard, but then they don't have anything behind it. And I'd be interested, if they're going to be successful, they need to be able to actually play some chords. There's got to be more than just lower taxes, lower taxes, lower taxes. Yeah,
Zain 32:08
Yeah, at the same time, last episode you were saying that you predict the Wild Roses to potentially take the Foothills by-election. Now, I understand they're strange beasts, these by-elections, but there must be something there that is resonating or that you believe could resonate with the Wildrose message. Yeah,
Carter 32:22
Yeah, the thing that they're going to be able to do is dominate the messaging.
Carter 32:25
They're the opposition. They're going to have the loudest voices in the session, and it sounds like it's going to be an earlier by-election than maybe I thought originally, but I don't think that's going to change anything. I think people are going to see this as a choice of only two parties right now, the New Democrats or the Wildrose. Yeah,
Corey 32:41
Yeah, you can't get too hung up on the left-right spectrum, especially in Alberta. We saw in 2008 a
Corey 32:45
a lot of people who voted for Kevin Taft in 2012 went to the Wild Rose. That's a pretty big swing. And then in 2015 swung all the way to the New Democrats. It's kind of a government, anti-government option as much as anything else. And
Carter 32:58
And I think that people will want to be sending a message back saying, you know what, 53 seats or 54, depending on where you put Drever, is plenty of seats for the New Democrats. We don't need that. We need a stronger voice of opposition. I
Zain 33:09
I want to talk about the Alberta Party and the Alberta Liberal Party in a second here, but I think you bring up something that I think is worth
Zain 33:16
talking about, which is, is the honeymoon over for the NDP right now? Do
Zain 33:20
Do you consider the recent chief of staff fiasco, which, by the way, both of you said he'd be gone by today or by the end of the weekend. You were both wrong. I led you down that path.
Carter 33:33
How can we both be so wrong? What do you
Carter 33:36
make of the NDP and where they stand right now?
Carter 33:39
I don't think the honeymoon is over. I do think that it's coming to an end.
Carter 33:43
I don't think today's throne speech did anything to endear the party faithful or Albertans to the NDP. I think instead that people are looking at this and basically saying,
Carter 33:55
yeah, okay, I'm not angry about it, but they're certainly not feeling like they're attached to it. Corey?
Corey 34:01
Yeah, the honeymoon's not over, but you're on your way to the airport, and that's a stressful time, right? I mean, there's a lot going on.
Corey 34:11
anything anything you want to tell us my wife's in the audience i'm just gonna wait yeah um all
Corey 34:19
all right that's a whole trip that's all i've dug myself into no uh
Corey 34:25
there's going to be a different phase of this honeymoon right you're no longer on vacation you're now just
Carter 34:30
just i think it's i think it's coming to an absolute end
Corey 34:33
no they'll they'll We'll get through the fall. The
Zain 34:35
The Alberta party, what do they need to do? What does Greg Clark specifically need to do to be successful in this session? You've railed quite hard on Greg Clark, Carter. I was quite surprised by that. But certainly, from what he's been doing as a one-man team, what does he need to do to be successful in your eyes in this session? See,
Carter 34:53
See, my problem is I don't like what he's doing, but what he's doing is actually working.
Carter 34:56
So he's doing this. I mean, today I guess he was on another radio station talking about MLA spending allowances, which allows you to rent. If you live 60 kilometers outside of Edmonton, you're allowed to spend up to $1,900 renting an apartment. And if you don't spend $1,900, you pocket the rest. So some MLAs, I'm not naming names, let's, Leifert,
Carter 35:17
Leifert, Leifert would rent a space for like $450 in a senior's village. I'm not even making that part up. And he would then pocket the balance, as most of them would do, or many of them would do. Others would buy a condo and use their $1,900 as their spending limit or their mortgage limit on how much they could spend to
Carter 35:40
to have their condo. And, of course, that condo was theirs at the end, not
Carter 35:43
not the people who were paying
Carter 35:46
So that's not a good thing.
Carter 35:49
But he's been using that to get media, and that kind of drives me crazy because it's small ball, right?
Carter 35:53
right? It's small ball, and I want the Alberta Party to be something that aspires to more. So today's press release after the throne speech was about flood mitigation. And of course that's an issue to be in Calgary elbow, to be sure, and many other ridings in Calgary. But it's not an Alberta issue.
Carter 36:11
It's not an Alberta issue that people of Alberta are going to grab onto and say, yes, that is something that I want. I want a government that will actually bring me this. And Greg Clark needs to say at some point,
Carter 36:22
this is a vision for all of Alberta. This is where we want to go. And he has yet to articulate it. Yeah,
Corey 36:27
Yeah, I feel like right now Greg Clark is running for chief of staff or deputy minister, not premier. It's just not a vision. It's got
Corey 36:34
got to be bigger than that. And this is, to a certain extent, always been the Alberta Party's challenge. And they've had varying degrees of success with it, which is, tell
Corey 36:44
tell me what the Alberta Party is and do it in five seconds, go. Right? And there's got to be a philosophy that underpins it. And it justifies its existence to the rest of Alberta. Now, Greg won in Elbow, but Greg won effectively as an independent. He didn't win because he was the Alberta Party guy. The jump that Greg needs to make is as much a mental one as anything else, which is I am now the
Corey 37:07
the leader of a political party that aspires to government. I am not just talking about flood mitigation and these small-ball issues that I can build a coalition in Calgary Elbow with. Which
Carter 37:16
Which is what Rachel Notley did.
Carter 37:18
Rachel Notley, if you remember the New Democrats at some point, they were basically, a
Carter 37:22
a couple years ago, They were very comfortable hanging under their own seats and growing into four. I mean, that was a big step forward for them.
Carter 37:28
And then all of a sudden, Rachel Notley got elected, and she started talking about... I am running for premier. And
Carter 37:34
was audacious that she would say, I'm running for premier. But we actually learned a lot about who she was, because when she started to articulate policy, she articulated policy that was province-wide, and it would have impact for all of us. Lastly,
Zain 37:47
Lastly, let's talk about the Alberta Liberal Party.
Zain 37:54
I want to touch on them specifically because of your background Corey, I think
Zain 37:59
there is something to be said, you've dealt with this in tough times, one is a tougher time, not this tough, yeah, no you haven't but what does one look like? and I think we talked about this a few episodes ago I want to say,
Corey 38:09
it's the loneliest number, right? it's the loneliest no, we can't get the rights to it oh yeah, stop, stop, stop yeah, it's
Corey 38:18
it's gonna be tough because they're about
Zain 38:20
about to die but they're not dead yet well
Corey 38:23
well they're mostly dead okay right but in the hospice
Corey 38:29
I've talked you dark yeah wait you don't
Zain 38:33
check there was a Rick McIver fucking India that's fine a
Corey 38:38
hospice I've said before they have a problem in that David Swan is in the legislature which gives them their credibility the minute David Swan and and as soon as there's a new leader David Swan has to resign or else there'll be a conflict. But as soon as David Swan resigns, then there is no credibility. So that's a difficult position.
Carter 38:54
position. And how do they even hold on to that writing? Let's assume that it's another, you
Carter 38:57
you know, who are even the leadership candidates that people are talking about? No, this, the leadership for the party has been vacant for what, four and a half months?
Carter 39:05
No names have come forward to someone who wants to seek the leadership. And no one's, and when they do that, they're going to have to hold Calgary Mountain View, probably
Carter 39:15
probably the most likely NDP seat in Calgary.
Carter 39:18
How are they going going to do that. Someone needs to explain to me the strategy by which they can actually get their new leader elected
Carter 39:25
elected to the legislature. This thing is, it's going down and it will be down and done within the next two years.
Corey 39:32
Now there was an interesting development today where David was made like the co-chair of a committee looking into mental health.
Corey 39:39
Insert Stephen Carter joke here. I didn't say anything. You were thinking it. I was thinking it, yeah.
Corey 39:48
what does that mean, this new relationship of cooperation? And is that a certain attempt by the NDP to co-opt David? I don't know. I mean, they're in bad because anything that David does is what the party does, right? There is no distinction between the two. And the minute there is, there's a conflict. I don't
Corey 40:04
don't know. I mean, there is no Liberal Party in Saskatchewan. There's barely one in Manitoba.
Carter 40:10
There's not really a Liberal Party in British Columbia. They're liberals.
Corey 40:15
It's not preordained, but, man, you'd have to give me some pretty long odds if you were saying bet that the liberals would survive to the next election.
Carter 40:24
Do you remember the Trudeau bump everybody was counting? The liberals were counting on the Trudeau bump.
Carter 40:28
We'll talk about Trudeau in a second.
Zain 40:30
segment, the best of the rest. Let's move on to our next segment.
Zain 40:34
Oh, yes, it's time to talk about some of our sponsors. You know, we can't put this show on low. loan. So what the Strategist Podcast has decided to do is sponsor a few businesses and just talk about them. This has gone the other way, in fact. So I'm going to give Corey and Carter some information about some of our sponsors, and they're going to read out some of our sponsored messages. Go ahead, Corey.
Corey 41:05
this is a Kijiji ad.
Corey 41:11
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Corey 41:15
hell on wheels tv series is in its fifth season is
Corey 41:19
is looking for males of asian descent ages 18 to 70 to work as background performers starting now until october okay
Corey 41:30
the the rate of pay is twelve dollars an hour then eighteen dollars an hour after nine hours, I'm getting excited about this. The days can be very long, between 12 and 14 hours. You must commit to the whole day. Are we giving the strategist bump to a show I've never heard of? Is that what's going on? Oh, no, this
Zain 41:44
this is a great show.
Corey 41:45
show. They're looking for people. Let's help them out.
Corey 41:47
And you must be able to commit to the whole day and be able to drive to and from the set about 30 minutes from southwest Calgary.
Corey 41:53
If interested, people out there in the internet, on the tubes, please send a selfie photo with contact info to to MarcyIsCasting at gmail.com and bring your social insurance number and a copy of a work permit if you have that as well.
Corey 42:09
Thank you and have a great day. That's so good. That's nice. It's nice we can do that. Yeah,
Carter 42:12
absolutely. I mean, I'm pleased that I've also got a Kijiji ad. This is for a snow shovel, an 18-inch HD steel snow shovel. It is a heavy-duty 18-inch snow shovel for sale made of long-lasting high-tensile steel, not
Carter 42:30
For unsurpassed performance, a real steel shovel will outlive their plastic alloy counterparts by years and consistently do a better job of clearing snow, ice, and crud from your pathway or driveway.
Carter 42:44
It's used, but in good condition. I've got to be honest with you, the photo does not look like that's in good condition.
Carter 42:50
That thing is bent. Anyways, it's $35, and if you've got it, it's on Kijiji. I've got the ad here. We'll see And if you're Asian and don't
Zain 43:01
Those were our sponsors. Thank you so much. That brought a smile to my face. Don't have to clap. That was for me. That was mainly for me.
Corey 43:09
okay. What's wrong with us?
Zain 43:10
That was weird, yeah. You never know.
Zain 43:15
I want to talk federal politics, so let's move it on to our next segment.
Zain 43:18
Fine, fabulous, or fucked, let's talk about...
Zain 43:25
any profanity makes these two laugh like little children
Zain 43:31
let's talk about some strategic are you serious yeah yeah those are the choices yeah
Zain 43:36
let's talk about some strategic moves that that each of the federal parties are making this summer leading into this fall election um
Zain 43:43
we mentioned justin trudeau off on on on the top there and and And I want to start with him.
Zain 43:48
One of the things that the
Zain 43:50
the Liberal Party seems to be planning right now is
Zain 43:53
is having Justin Trudeau be
Zain 43:55
be a little bit hidden this summer, maybe not as exposed as the other leaders, go a little bit deep into the cave,
Zain 44:01
bone up for what's going to be a writ in September, October. What
Zain 44:05
What do you make of that move? Is that fine,
Zain 44:08
fine, fabulous, or fucked?
Corey 44:11
It's somewhere between fine and fucked. It's not a great strategy. If your strategy is let's hide the leader and hope everything works out, I
Corey 44:22
what are we really saying about Canadian politics at that point? I
Carter 44:25
I mean, and people like Justin Trudeau when he had no substance. This idea of adding substance to him, I'm not sure it's going to work.
Corey 44:34
actually substance is a bit of the problem. I think
Carter 44:36
think that as he speaks
Corey 44:37
speaks more. He takes C-51
Carter 44:38
Yeah, I mean, when he tries to sound like, don't worry, I've got law and order.
Carter 44:42
People are like, no, we don't want you to be law and order. We
Carter 44:46
We want you to be pretty, and you are. Yeah,
Corey 44:47
Yeah, more law and order SVU. Yeah, more SVU.
Carter 44:52
But this is the problem. They're fucked because right now the strategy is not working, and it's pretty evident that it's not working, and they're doubling down. They
Zain 45:04
They are doubling down. I
Carter 45:04
I just got my email. There's going to be another policy announcement tomorrow. moral and honest to god i don't know if it's going to be more conservative light or if this time they're going to go new democrat light and that's that seems to be the problem with the liberal party is you never know what policies you're going to get because you never know which policies are polling particularly on well
Corey 45:24
well yeah they're not they're not rooting it in a philosophy right what do
Carter 45:28
do they stand for and there's lots of places to stand in the canadian political environment right now that aren't occupied by thomas baker or stephen harper who who've occupied very small small parts of the Canadian landscape. But Justin Trudeau seems to like where they are more, rather
Carter 45:45
rather than crafting his own space.
Corey 45:47
I mean, any political leader who your partisans do not know where you stand until you open your mouth is in a dangerous place, because you're going to antagonize half of your base in those situations, right?
Corey 45:59
The Liberal plan has been, you know, Team Trudeau and all of these great luminaries behind him, General Leslie, and the indomitable Matt Grant of Calgary Confederation. Oh,
Corey 46:11
Yeah, I know, right? Matt's going to appreciate that.
Corey 46:13
That's a good friend of mine. And that's
Corey 46:17
that's only going to take him so far because ultimately he's still got to be the guy at the front of the table making the decisions. So I can understand that they want him to look like he's ready for that job, but there are different types of leadership. And if we think that he's going to be the guy with the rapid response of facts, knows knows every figure, can command you with all of the details?
Corey 46:37
We don't. It's going to be a different type of leadership. And he should be portraying that type of leadership, I think, to answer your original question. OK,
Zain 46:43
OK, so there's something else that's seeming to bubble up and is not going away for all three parties. Many are saying it's the vote-getter for the NDP recently, and many are saying it's probably the vote-loser for Justin Trudeau, and that's C-51. C-51.
Zain 46:57
-51. It seems like it's here to stay as a policy issue. So I want you to analyze, with the The three choices that you have, Justin Trudeau's doubling down of C-51, his defense that he's going with it right now. Where do you rank that amongst the three choices?
Corey 47:10
choices? It's as bad as John Kerry's I voted for it before against it. I'm going to vote for it, and then I'm going to change it. I don't like the bill, but every bill that has ever been passed by the parliament has had 98% unobjectionable content. That's the reality of making the sausage, right? It's when you throw in those random ingredients. That's why people oppose bills. bills. And I think it was just too cute by half of Justin to take the position he did. But I don't
Corey 47:36
don't think the problem is with the public. When you look at the polling, there's still—Canadians still like the idea of security and, you know, anti-terrorism things. The problem is with the next level in. Not even the diehard volunteers, but those engaged supporter types. And they are mortified by Bill C-51 on the Liberal side. And that's creating some real internal tensions that it's going to be quite tough for them to get by. I'm not sure that he can just hope that this page flips itself. He might need to do a bit of a mea culpa on this. You
Carter 48:03
You have to remember how C-51 evolved. When
Carter 48:06
When Bill C-51 was introduced by Harper, it had a 90th percentile approval rating.
Carter 48:11
It was massively popular.
Carter 48:14
just could never stay that popular.
Carter 48:17
As soon as people started to figure out what was in it,
Carter 48:20
by that point, the Trudeau liberals had decided that they supported it.
Carter 48:23
Because anything that's 91% popular, we have to be on that side.
Carter 48:27
We don't want to be on the 9% side. We want to be on the 91% side. You think that was the impetus? I think it was entirely. And then I think that they couldn't back away from something that they'd already supported. Yeah,
Corey 48:36
Yeah, I agree 100%. I mean, and Canadians, to their great credit, as they learn more about this bill, just like this bill. And it's kind of like what
Corey 48:45
what I imagine somebody who's coming back from a stoning, like driving their family home from some public stoning. They're like, oh, well, what were we doing there? like that what sort
Carter 48:58
well i mean it happens to us all we're one day we're
Carter 49:02
we're out and we're stoning someone and we're like i
Corey 49:05
i don't know how else you grow crops in your neck of the woods but
Corey 49:09
but i'm from northeast calgary yeah that's how we grow crops yeah no it's
Zain 49:13
marlboro strong uh this
Carter 49:17
is taking a really weird yeah
Zain 49:19
the stoning that ever threw
Corey 49:23
to us as a country, right? And it whipped us up into an anger about the conditions that not even necessarily did but may have led to that course of events. And, of course, I'm talking about the attack on Parliament with the gunman who killed somebody at the war memorial and then went to Parliament and started firing in the halls of Parliament, element, in the halls of where we say we are an open and just and democratic society and this is our evidence of it.
Corey 49:51
That is horrible. That is absolutely horrible. But the reaction that came out of it, of course Canadians were inevitably, look at all security protections going back to the dawn of time, right? After 2001, all of the Patriot Act, it
Corey 50:06
it was 90%. It's nowhere near that now. It's like 20% for those kind of protections in the United States now. Now, this
Corey 50:13
this happens, and the fact that Justin Trudeau couldn't see that it
Corey 50:17
it was going to happen and in a much faster order than it ever happened with similar protections in the United States is a real failing of the liberal parties, I think, because they saw polls, and
Corey 50:27
interpreted them for knowledge instead of a snapshot of sentiment, which they were.
Corey 50:31
Great, so I'll mark you both down for fabulous.
Zain 50:36
Okay, showcasing the liberal team more. Corey, you mentioned this. What sort of move is that at this point in time in the summer? It seems like it's starting to happen, the showcase of the team. Fine, fabulous, fucked.
Corey 50:45
fucked. No, it's fine. I mean, it's what they've been doing all along, and I
Corey 50:49
I wouldn't say it's fabulous because, of course, inherent
Corey 50:52
inherent in every time you say this guy is great and he knows everything about this issue, you'll be like, I don't, guys, right? You're kind of highlighting your own ignorance. This
Carter 51:00
This should have been fabulous, except right now it looks like they're trying to hide the leader because he's performing so poorly, so that's why it's fucked. Because, I mean, why am I not surprised?
Carter 51:10
Well, seriously, when they devised the strategy three months ago when they're writing it all up on the whiteboard, this made perfect sense. We're going to start rolling everybody out. We'll be just, you know, we're coming in off of our, what's the stupid policy with the taxation? Fairness. We're going to do the fairness policy. Then we're going to release this other policy. And it's all going to be riding high, and we're going to be at our high point, and we're going to show everybody off. And then we'll see how it all ends from there. Yeah, and on
Carter 51:36
on paper it looked good, but they haven't altered the strategy to counter the new reflection that people are starting to think that Justin Trudeau is weaker than they would like.
Zain 51:47
Let's move on to the Conservative Party and Stephen Harper.
Zain 51:50
A recent story came out that said that the party is planning to spend more on polling heading up to the RIT. What do you make of that? Is that a sign of something, or is that fine? They're fucked. That's such a bad sign.
Zain 52:02
genuinely are saying that, right? I am. I feel like the F word is just like kind of, I don't know why I'm calling the F word now when we've just said it like multiple times. You're the one who put it up there. My parents are here and I only have like a limit of six of them, I think. So that's like my reserve.
Corey 52:17
Well, I think. It's the same thing we just talked about with Justin Trudeau. And if you start to be too slavishly, you know, obsessed with the polls, you can't see the forest for the trees, right? You start looking at the specifics and you start looking at how those specifics line line up in popularity, and you forget that there's a broader story you need to tell. There's a coalition. As much as we talk about the long tail, which was this idea that Stephen Harper would go out and find a bunch of small groups to create a big group,
Corey 52:44
there was still a narrative that tied all of those together, this idea of what government should be. Yeah,
Carter 52:49
Yeah, I mean, I disagree. I
Carter 52:51
I think that it's fabulous. I think that the reality is that the conservatives have never been that popular, but what they do is they find out through their polling. polling, and I think that Jenny Byrne might be the best reader of polls in politics today. They find out from their polling how they're going to put together the narrative, the absolute smallest possible narrative to carry and create a stable majority government. And that's what they're trying to do. They know that they can't win a government, a national government on a national vision. They're going to find as many small things as possible.
Zain 53:27
OK, interesting. I want to move on to something. This is not as much of a strategy play as it is a reality for the Conservatives, but they're hemorrhaging candidates right now. James Rajod yesterday, McKay, I mean, they're losing people. What do you make of that? Ten years
Carter 53:40
years in being in government, you're going to lose some people. And no one wants—I mean, sure, the government comes to you seven months before the election, eight months before the election, and says, no,
Carter 53:48
no, really, if you're going to step down, we need you to know— Push
Zain 53:51
Push you on this, Carter, they're losing a significant chunk of their front bench heading into the next election.
Corey 53:56
I'll tell you why. They've already lost Bard.
Corey 53:59
They're losing it because nobody wants to risk going down with the ship if they've got ambitions beyond the Harper government, right? And I'm thinking particularly McKay. If McKay wants to run for leader of the conservative party down the road, he doesn't want to be there when it all goes... I
Carter 54:14
I think McKay left because he's got a young kid, and he knew he didn't want to raise his kid the way his dad raised him. I think that ultimately that was an open... It was a good maneuver by Peter for his family not to apologize. Kids
Zain 54:31
It's true. When you're from the Northeast, they do raise themselves. That's absolutely true.
Zain 54:36
Like I said, my mom and dad are here, and they're going to appreciate that.
Zain 54:42
Foot and mouth disease. Okay, Tom O'Kare, the NDP.
Zain 54:47
He's starting to use this nomenclature right now called the old parties. Have you heard this? Oh, they've been
Corey 54:51
been doing that forever. Okay, well,
Zain 54:52
well, it's becoming a lot more prevalent in his talk right now, and maybe it's because he's getting that exposure a lot more. But what do you make of that nomenclature? Do you think that's troubling, or do you think that's fine, fabulous, fucked? When
Corey 55:05
When you've got the word new in your party name, and you're 50 years old. You're 50 years old, you haven't done anything in 50 years. I guess you like the word new. I guess new means a lot to you. These
Carter 55:14
These other parties that formed the Confederation, they suck. But us, we haven't done sweet fuck all, but we're looking good. I
Carter 55:22
it's an easy way. You kind of took your bias a
Corey 55:24
a little bit there, Carter.
Carter 55:25
Well, no, I mean, I just think that Mulcair, of the federal leaders, I mean, I'm no Harper fan, to be sure. I respect Harper. I don't have much of a feeling at all for Thomas Mulcair because I don't think that he's actually defined anything. I think that the NDP bump, and I think I've said this on the podcast before, is more about the NDP winning in Alberta and suddenly everybody who doesn't give a fuck moved
Carter 55:52
moved their vote to the NDP when the pollsters called. And they're just as likely to move back to the Conservatives or
Corey 55:58
to the Liberals by the election.
Corey 56:00
Let's get to that. But on the notion of this old party thing, it's an easy way to talk about behaviors that are not even behaviors that are...
Corey 56:13
behaviors that the Liberals or Conservatives, because they're old parties, but because they're parties who have had success and have been in government before and have a way of doing things. And, yeah, it's really easy for the New Democrats
Corey 56:23
to make a virtue out of having never been in government when you start using language like that. And that's why they're doing it. Vote for us.
Carter 56:29
us. We're less prepared than the Trudeau liberals.
Zain 56:36
You bring up an interesting point, Carter. Your inability to care enough for Thomas Mulcair. Do you think that is going to be, both of you, maybe, Corey, first, a hurdle for Tom Mulcair going forward? They are going on this personality, charm offensive for Tom Mulcair. Him sitting alone in a coffee shop representing blue-collar Canadians. Do you think that's going to be their biggest struggle to getting any
Corey 56:56
any sort of traction at their party? His smile always looks a little strained, almost like he's about to shout at those blue-collars. Hey,
Carter 57:02
Hey, you! Get some work
Corey 57:04
It's difficult for him. He doesn't exude warmness. I'm sure he's a very warm man, but it's the Michael Ignatyev problem. problem. A lot of politicians lately have had this where you don't look comfortable in your political skin.
Corey 57:17
That said, I think that because
Corey 57:20
because this election is shaping up to be the way it is, which is experience
Corey 57:25
experience versus inexperience is how the Conservatives want to put it, new versus old is how the Liberals want to put it, Mulcair can kind of thread the needle between the two of them and be like, look, we're new and
Corey 57:37
and we're experienced because we have a lot more experience than Justin Trudeau. I don't think it's going to be the big problem. I
Carter 57:42
I just hope that Thomas Mulcair hires the same image makeover guys that worked for Preston Manning because
Carter 57:48
that works super well, and it's the same level of requirement. Preston Manning on the right was never seen as a person of the people, and Thomas Mulcair from the left, where he should be seen as a person of the people, where Jack Layton absolutely rocked it in the last election,
Carter 58:07
Thomas Mulcair is never going to get to that level well
Corey 58:09
well in fact we call him Thomas and not Tom Tommy he's trying to go to Tom he's trying to go to Tom
Carter 58:15
Tom and everybody's like no
Carter 58:17
you look like a Thomas
Zain 58:19
we're fine with Thomas it's the facial hair
Zain 58:21
last question about Tom Mulcair I just called him Tom
Zain 58:27
Senate reform he's doubling down on it fine
Carter 58:29
fine fabulous at this particular moment it seems fine but I just don't know why people aren't pointing out that a $24 million audit uncovered a million dollars worth of problems. This is true. John Oliver pointed that out last night. Only the federal government would do something that stupid and call it a success. We could literally have
Corey 58:49
have done that for 20 more years at the same spending.
Corey 58:53
true. Yeah, it's problematic that that went down the way that is. I just don't...
Corey 59:00
To get rid of the Senate, which I believe would be great, and we should get rid of the Senate. Oh, my God.
Corey 59:03
But to get rid of the Senate, you need 10 out of 10 provinces. And by a tally that I read the other day,
Corey 59:09
6 out of 10 have said no. Like, it's never going to happen. The
Carter 59:13
The Senate, here's a way to fix the Senate. I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going to go crazy. Appoint better senators.
Carter 59:21
throwing it out there as an
Corey 59:22
an idea. That's so trite. You know how you get better government? Elect better MPs. Like, what are you really saying here?
Corey 59:27
here? Listen, people who
Carter 59:29
who run have to put their name on a ballot. They have to give up a lot of things. I mean, it's a difficult thing to choose to put your name on a ballot. To choose to get appointed is like, hey, Bob, you ready?
Carter 59:40
Okay. What the hell? $200,000 a year, I'm in. And honest to God can be a talented person's retirement. Brett Wilson could be appointed to the Senate and do great work from the Senate.
Corey 59:53
Wilson for the Senate. You gave off like a supervillain vibe there, I think. I
Carter 59:56
I think it'll work.
Corey 59:57
Yeah. Look, I think the Senate is irredeemable. Oh,
Corey 1:00:00
God. I think that Harper's plan, as crazy as it sounds, is probably the most realistic, which is get seven out of ten. But that has such huge
Corey 1:00:08
huge problems for Confederation as a whole, I'm not sure it's desirable. I mean, as bad as the status quo is, we
Corey 1:00:14
we might be best off with the status quo. This
Carter 1:00:15
This is my point. I want to wrap
Zain 1:00:17
wrap up this segment really quickly. Give me your 20
Zain 1:00:20
20 seconds of strategy that you would implement for Justin Trudeau and the Liberals, and then we'll carry on with the other parties. So, your 20 seconds, very quickly. What would you be doing right now? I'd
Carter 1:00:28
I'd be working on speech training that would have him stop sounding like he's been trained to speak.
Carter 1:00:35
No, seriously. Have you watched him deliver a policy announcement?
Carter 1:00:41
You know, like, it's so false.
Carter 1:00:45
you're here today to see me. Corey, what would you do? Yeah,
Corey 1:00:47
Yeah, he's got a serious Shatner vibe.
Corey 1:00:53
I feel like we've had the title of our episode.
Corey 1:00:57
it's simplify, simplify, the liberals need to get down to what they are, they need to understand that they need to be able to articulate it and everything's got to come from that and I don't just mean it in the sense of stop chasing the damn polls but their fairness plan is quite complex you go in and you can put in some stuff and you say how much you have and what your lot in life is like and whether or not it doesn't matter and you go through all of that and then
Corey 1:01:22
then it's like you get something or you don't but it's like green shift for families Yeah, it's really
Corey 1:01:28
Let me tell you a story about
Carter 1:01:29
about the green shift.
Corey 1:01:30
So the green shift came out, and Stéphane Dion was in Calgary the
Corey 1:01:35
the next day or something like that. And so I was at a
Corey 1:01:38
a private function, and it ended. So Stéphane, myself, Daryl Raymaker. Anyone know Daryl Raymaker in this room? Daryl Raymaker,
Corey 1:01:44
Spattered applause. We won't tell him it was that small. We were on his deck, and we were saying, Stéphane, so tell us about the green shift. And I can't remember, but Daryl asked a question like, so what does this mean for natural gas or something really basic? And Stefan's like, well, and he pulls out his backpack and he pulls out his binder and he goes to this 100-page document. He's like, I
Corey 1:02:05
I think it means this. And I'm like, you fucking wrote the plan.
Corey 1:02:13
And that's the vibe that I get right now from some of the policies coming out. They're trying to be all things. They're trying to triangulate. And as a result, they're too complicated. People aren't getting them. them.
Corey 1:02:21
They're not understanding what the Liberals stand for. They've got to get simple. That's my two
Corey 1:02:26
two-minute version of 20 seconds. Yeah,
Zain 1:02:27
Yeah, no, I was going to stop you. I
Carter 1:02:28
I did a 20-second answer, and he did two minutes, and I'm feeling like I was taking advantage. You had to elaborate on
Zain 1:02:33
What would you tell the Conservatives right now? What is their strategy? Hold firm. Corey?
Corey 1:02:37
Yeah, stay the course. Don't be seduced by all of the moving polls. What you've been doing has obviously put you in good stead. Stephen Harper will
Carter 1:02:43
will not move off of his plan. He has it, and he's executing. Tom
Corey 1:02:48
Don't fuck it up.
Corey 1:02:51
I think right now, if everything continues the way it is, Tom Mulcair could be Prime Minister going forward.
Carter 1:02:57
Yeah, I know. What? Yeah, I agree. Of the three of us, one person predicted Premier Rachel Notley. It was the apologist. It was terrible. So
Zain 1:03:07
take him down by giving him credit. I don't understand that.
Carter 1:03:10
So, I mean, he
Carter 1:03:12
he may very well be right. I mean, the voters of Canada continue to be very volatile. They will move anywhere. They are not bound by ideology. They are bound only by, eh, I think I'll try this.
Zain 1:03:27
Let's move on to our next segment.
Zain 1:03:29
This is the mailbag. You guys had sent some questions in to us, and we thought it best that we answer them right now. Corey, did you want to elaborate? No, this is great. It's good. Feedback.
Zain 1:03:38
Feedback is great. Okay, so the first question that we had was, can I bring a friend? The answer to that would have been yes. Is there any way to bring a sign? You should have. have.
Zain 1:03:47
What is the best way to get to the theater? I don't know. And I have RSVP'd for three people, but I might have four people. My cousin is visiting from out of town, so we may have four people. Should I RSVP for three people? I think I will RSVP for four people.
Zain 1:04:03
Should have RSVP'd for three people. That would have worked out fine. That was our fault. Kind of screwed us right up. Yeah, it
Zain 1:04:10
Okay, final segment. Final Final segment, the lightning round.
Zain 1:04:13
Okay, here we go.
Zain 1:04:15
Guys, are you ready? Yep. It's always good. Met, exceeded, or failed to meet. What was this throne speech for you?
Zain 1:04:22
Met. Oh, failed to meet. One
Zain 1:04:24
to ten, what was its ranking for you? Four. Seven.
Zain 1:04:32
we're in a bunch of time. I got to make sure. Yeah, what are
Corey 1:04:35
are we talking about? Over,
Zain 1:04:36
Over, under, on five out of ten, the current NDP strategy as you see it. Over, under, five out of ten. Over.
Zain 1:04:44
That surprises me. Over, under, 5 out of 10 on the liberal strategy.
Zain 1:04:48
Which one? Yeah, we're talking federal. Oh, okay. Wait. I'm sorry. Which one?
Zain 1:04:54
provincial liberals? We just talked about the provincials having no strategy. Okay. Under. Over, under, under on 5. Under on 5.
Zain 1:05:00
Under on 5. Yeah. And
Zain 1:05:01
And the conservatives, over, under on 5. Over. Over.
Zain 1:05:04
Really? Agreement on that. Okay. Look into your long-form crystal ball. Okay? Do that for me, because you have one.
Zain 1:05:11
If the NDP are to follow their current strategy today, the one that they're undertaking that you think is under,
Zain 1:05:17
what would that crystal ball say? Are we talking
Corey 1:05:19
talking federal or provincial?
Zain 1:05:19
Federal. You're all over the map. I'm not all over the map. Federal. Federal.
Zain 1:05:25
What would it say, the crystal ball for the NDP, if they followed their current strategy? There
Carter 1:05:28
There is no current strategy for the NDP. It's a bounce. This is a bounce. The ball will go up. The ball will go down. So there is no strategy that got them here. so don't make it sound like Thomas Mulcair is a genius for looking like a human being. Hey, wait,
Corey 1:05:41
the game there, Stephen.
Zain 1:05:43
I think I'm going to take Thomas Mulcair
Corey 1:05:45
Mulcair something. Okay, go ahead. I think we look back on 10 years of Prime Minister Thomas Mulcair and the nationalization of the salt mines.
Zain 1:05:56
into your crystal ball again. For the federal liberal party, if they follow their current course, what would that crystal ball say?
Corey 1:06:02
Justin Trudeau's got a bunch of kids, right? Better luck next time? I
Carter 1:06:05
I think that Justin Trudeau will do really well on the speaker circuit.
Zain 1:06:12
How much did you like this audience on a scale of 1 to 10?
Zain 1:06:21
How did the show go?
Zain 1:06:23
How did the show go? A letter, not
Zain 1:06:24
A letter, not a number. That's it. Episode 535 of The Strategist. Thank you so much for being with us.
Zain 1:06:31
We don't have our extra music. You know what? We're not going to do without the extra music. Hold on. Hold on
Zain 1:06:43
is a wrap. Episode 535 of The Strategist. Thank you for being with us. My name is Zane Velgey. With me, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter, and this wonderful audience here in Calgary.
Carter 1:07:02
The bars are going to remain open so you can drink.