Episode 1819: Welcome Back, Klingbeil

Annalise 0:01

Hello, and welcome to episode 1819 of The Strategist. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.

Corey 0:10

You're changing it up. You've been back for one episode. You're changing it up. What did I do wrong?

Corey 0:15

That's not how you say it. That's

Corey 0:16

how you say it. That's how Annalise says

Annalise 0:19

says it. Look at the

Annalise 0:19

the fun faces. I haven't seen you for so long.

Corey 0:23

Jesus. Yeah. We've had a lot of Zain to deal with lately. man

Corey 0:28

you thought he was bad before now he's won a campaign what

Carter 0:31

what have you done Hogan anyways

Corey 0:33

anyways you gave birth to a human so congratulations to you not Zane you did more than Zane

Annalise 0:41

Zane did much more than Zane welcome

Annalise 0:44

thanks for having me guys happy to be back yeah

Carter 0:49

you we missed you quite a bit because we had no sanity in

Corey 0:51

in our lives see comments about Zane Carter

Annalise 0:54

Carter I did not miss you because you called me a lot You checked in. We talked often. I checked in.

Annalise 1:00

nice guy, Corey Hogan. Don't

Corey 1:01

Don't let people know he's actually nice.

Corey 1:03

doesn't want people to know this. Just don't fucking do it. He's

Annalise 1:04

He's kind. You know what? Stephen Carter is kind.

Corey 1:08

very upsetting. I texted a few times. You're welcome.

Annalise 1:11

No, you're nice too, Corey. But you've got your hands full. You've got three little kids. Stephen Carter. I have no little kids.

Annalise 1:17

He's got lots of time to check in.

Annalise 1:19

He's got time to call me multiple times in a row on one day to say, hey, are you free to record? And here I am.

Corey 1:25

am. Now, to be fair... I'd forgotten

Corey 1:28

He also forgot he asked you probably two times when he did it the third, right?

Annalise 1:33

thought something was wrong, Carter. It was just repeated phone calls with no voice message and no text, but it works.

Carter 1:40

works. No, I forgot I

Annalise 1:40

I could text. It

Carter 1:41

It totally worked out. I was like, oh, I could text.

Carter 1:44

No, I'm modern enough not to leave voicemail. Yeah, that's fair. I just forgot that I could text. Okay.

Annalise 1:51

It worked, though. I'm here. It happens to everyone.

Annalise 1:53

I'm here. it's been a while and i've got uh i've got some things i want to talk to you guys about are you very good are you ready yeah

Annalise 2:01

oh you're still doing that cory that hasn't yeah it's still a thing it's still as

Annalise 2:06

annoying as ever still funny every time yeah

Corey 2:09

yeah funnier i think yeah

Annalise 2:13

uh carter any anything new with you that i should uh i should be aware about from the past several months oh

Carter 2:20

oh no nothing's new i haven't been in any trouble nothing it's been pretty spectacular i've been exceptionally well behaved um the discord loves me uh i had to bring some fatherly love to the discord today right told them that if they didn't behave themselves they were going to be sent to their rooms on time out and i gave out two timeouts today so i'm pretty good about myself wow it's

Corey 2:44

it's even the disc on the hammer that's

Corey 2:45

that's really exciting drama in the discord yeah

Corey 2:49

well on that note if you haven't checked out the discord discord you know yeah yeah apparently this is gonna make people pay to

Annalise 2:57

to listen to alice yeah

Corey 2:58

yeah absolutely nice join

Annalise 3:00

join that discord full of drama are there i haven't been on in in a long time are there still way too many channels no

Carter 3:08

no there's not too many channels we have a channel discussing the fact that there's not too many channels yeah you

Annalise 3:14

guys are crazy um okay let's move into our first segment first segment the politics of i don't know what's called the The politics of hail, fire, and floods, the politics of natural disasters, the politics of Mother Nature. Guys, I've been kind of tuned out lately. As you know, I've had my hands full with some other things. But there's lots that has happened, especially in recent weeks when it comes to natural disasters across Canada. Massive wildfire in Jasper. There's recent flooding in Montreal and across southern Quebec. A big old hailstorm in Calgary. were, what, mid-August, still kind of the big months for wild weather. There's also been, not that it's a natural disaster, but it has to do with water, the pipe in Calgary, which is still drama around that. So I want to dive into this topic. There's kind of different angles that I think are interesting. There's political implications, and there's different levels of government that this hits. Jasper specifically, you're talking about local, provincial, as well as federal. So I've got a bunch of questions. I want to start with the town of Jasper.

Annalise 4:23

Residents have been away from their homes for three weeks. They were just told that they can return to the town on Friday. Many don't have homes to return to, including the mayor whose home of 67 years was destroyed.

Annalise 4:36

Let's start with the mayor. Let's start, like, you're the mayor of this small tourist town.

Annalise 4:44

how do you approach Friday and do you go in like do you have people giving you a strategy are you just doing what you feel is right like let's start there and then there's lots uh lots more I want to dive into Carter why don't you go ahead well

Carter 4:57

I think that the heading in there with your house destroyed is a really difficult moment of leadership you're going to head in and your Your leadership is going to be torn between, do I want to take care of myself and my family, which would be a natural inclination, or am I going to go in and address the needs of the community? And I think that Mayor Ireland is going to probably

Carter 5:23

probably have some struggles with that because he will be drawn to the natural inclination of taking care of himself and his family. uh well recognizing that the larger community needs them as well um not

Carter 5:38

not everybody lost a home and most of you know the people moving back are moving back into their homes so they're not the ones who lost them uh

Carter 5:45

uh the people who lost their homes will will remain uh you know waiting waiting for for for solutions so i think that the mayor is in a uh a

Carter 5:57

a really tough spot not because the mayor's done anything wrong or will do anything wrong but just that that balance between our human requirement to take care of ourselves and the leadership requirement the leadership burden uh to take care of a larger community it's just going to drag them in two different small two different directions do

Annalise 6:15

do you think he has people like jasper small i think five five thousand around five thousand is the population and then what triple that of tourists in the summer like Like, does he have, when we're talking about a municipality that small, Jasper only became a town recently. Does he have a team around him helping him through that and kind of looking at the different, you could do this, you could do this? Or is it like, it's just him?

Corey 6:40

You know, there is definitely a team because the nature of an emergency like this, a disaster like this, is it becomes provincialized and even nationalized because of where it is and there's a park. And it is one of those interesting things where we talk about him as though he's a leader. And, of course, he is, right? But this is not why you elect a mayor in a town like Jasper, right, to deal with a disaster, once in a generation disaster like this. So the team for the mayor becomes the team that would manage it for the premier, the team that would manage it for the prime minister. And there's an awful lot of support and infrastructure, I hope, that is being provided to allow him to be the messenger and carry the message in a way that people in Jasper will understand and resonate, rather than it having to come from a faceless federal official, for example. So the job is really being a conduit, but I suspect on a certain level, he's never had such a big team, right? Because of the nature of it and everybody that's involved. One of the things I think is interesting and that I'm going to be looking to see here is if a third of Calgary burned down, there's like nowhere for them to go. And it's nothing about the size of the city. That's the composition of the city. But you've already mentioned it. The population of Jasper can quadruple in the summertime, right? There are other accommodations there. So one of the things that will be interesting to watch, both the tension that it creates and the opportunity it provides, is that there are lodgings in the town of Jasper that are maybe available for some of these people who would otherwise be unhoused, have to live in Hinton or Edson or any of the other centers that are nearby. But what's nearby when you're in rural areas, right? And that's going to create some logistics too, but all

Corey 8:29

all to be seen. It's going to be very fascinating. Corey,

Annalise 8:32

Corey, you mentioned the point about never having likely never had such a big team. Do you like in this sort of situation? Is there a too many cooks in the kitchen problem? And especially when you're dealing with like, this guy

Annalise 8:44

guy has lived there, you

Annalise 8:46

you know, his entire life. I think the house that is his that burnt down, he grew up like he's been there his entire life. He knows the people

Annalise 8:54

then you've got all these other people coming in and, you know, telling you what to do. Are there too many cooks in the kitchen?

Corey 9:02

One of the things about disasters like this, in my experience, is it's not actually a huge problem at the beginning during the moment of crisis. And it becomes a problem as we move from crisis to rebuild, right? And then arguably, there are too many cooks in the kitchen. At the actual moment of disaster, there

Corey 9:19

there are emergency professionals

Corey 9:20

professionals who deal with these things and have created structures. structures and many of our listeners will be familiar with the incident command structure ICS and there are there are variants of that get used and they basically say you're in charge until somebody comes and they tap you on the shoulder and say no I'm actually in charge now and everybody understands a chain of command and the chain of command is much more rigid at a moment of crisis and it's much clearer who you need to go to for answers who needs to sign off on things there's the various colors of vests some people will have heard who you know for example the green vests who have to sign off on communications that that's all like well

Corey 9:56

well understood in a moment of crisis but when you start getting back into quote-unquote normal times and there's nothing normal about a rebuild but the normal political machines start to take you

Corey 10:07

shape again then that's when you find that there are too many cooks in the kitchen you have and i'm not sure it's a bad thing i just want to say but you have different people with competing visions as to what a rebuild will look And we've seen some kind of silly versions of that already, suggestions that the federal government wants to rebuild in ways that the provincial government would find objectionable. Not sure there's a lot of evidence that the

Corey 10:31

feds want to rebuild Jasper, you

Corey 10:34

you know, woke Jasper or whatever it is, right? I don't see a lot of evidence of that. But you will have a thousand small considerations that will come up and the mayor will want one. The mayor had a house for 67 years that burned down. That is going to lead you, I would imagine, to almost a Batman style, you know, you remember the Batman movies, like we're going to rebuild it brick by brick, same way, right? Are

Corey 10:58

Are you though? Right? And then there's going to be people maybe even in the province who say, well, maybe we need a few more firebreaks around here, folks. like this this was a pretty serious challenge and maybe we'd like to move the population a little bit away from the forest and then you're going to have the federal government who's going to say well if we're rebuilding this is probably a great time to deal

Corey 11:16

deal with accessibility or make sure that everything's up to code like even if you say you just want to rebuild it the way it was nobody actually wants to rebuild it the way it was anybody who owns a house anybody who's ever been in a fucking building in their life knows if they could do it again they would probably do something different, even if they love the thing to death.

Corey 11:35

And so you do get a lot of people with a lot of opinions as things go back into normal. And that can be a very trying time. But

Corey 11:43

But our whole system is based on that. The idea that we're allowed to have these competing interests in these competing spheres, it will be very interesting to watch.

Annalise 11:51

Carter, do you think there's lessons? I mean, this isn't the first time, Alberta even, big fires, you know, big, big, dramatic, costly fires. I'm thinking Slave Lake, I'm thinking Fort McMurray. Are there political or communications lessons from those specific wildfire burning town disasters that you would recommend the mayor and others take note of this time around?

Carter 12:15

I mean, a couple more of these, we're going to get real good right now. Now, yeah,

Carter 12:19

yeah, I think that the opportunity

Carter 12:23

opportunity of the rebuild and the challenges associated with it, what

Carter 12:28

what Corey didn't mention, and I think that he's thinking more of the electeds, but there's also the CAO and the team of managers that will be in Jasper and how they will be interacting.

Carter 12:44

None of these groups interact on their own. There's always another, like, it's not, it's never a group where the CAO of Jasper is disconnected from every other CAO in the province. There's a provincial association of CAOs that connect, that are part of, you know, that will help, that will, there will be agreements to supply and support from different communities. um the

Carter 13:11

challenge will be uh making

Carter 13:14

making the decisions how the decisions get made and then moving those decisions forward in slave lake we didn't have the federal level and same with the fort mcmurray and i think that there'd be mixed reports on how we've quote unquote rebuilt those two cities um i think that both of them suffered dramatically and i think that they weren't necessarily rebuilt the way that they existed before but i do think that they are rebuilt in in general if that makes any sense they're rebuilt to the level that they could be jasper i wonder if it will be rebuilt in the exact in the exact same fashion i do wonder if um the requirements that you have like you're supposed to work in the park if you want to own a place in the park and

Carter 14:05

those rules got a little lax under uh certain governments and then they were kind of grandfathered in and i wonder if the requirement to work in the park is going to be really doubled

Carter 14:17

doubled down on uh it would be the thing that i would look for that would be very different than than

Carter 14:22

than what we saw in slave lake and uh slave

Carter 14:25

slave lake and uh fort mcmurray cory

Annalise 14:27

cory talk to me about So the federal component, and I think specifically in Alberta, where you have the federals, the liberals, and then you have Daniel Smith and her government, how much more sticky or complicated or messy is this all going to be with those two players in it?

Corey 14:44

It's going to be so exhausting. I don't know how it's going to play out. I certainly hope that everybody can be mature about it and work to the benefit of the citizens of Jasper. But we've obviously already seen some smallness on both sides, right? We've seen Danielle Smith suggest that the feds are responsible for this. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. It's weird to do it during the moment of crisis, though, to suggest that's the case. And then say that the federal government would want to rebuild in a fashion that would be unacceptable to the province, based more on rumor, I think, than anything else, innuendo more than anything else. But then we've also seen Justin Trudeau come to town and, through some of his body language, make it pretty clear he doesn't have a lot of time for the conservative politicians. Everybody will, well, I suspect many of our listeners will have seen the clip of him effectively blasting past Danielle Smith, offering her hand for a handshake, and the Prime Minister going and shaking the hand of, you know, the other person that's in the room first, right? right?

Corey 15:46

Hard to believe that's a coincidence. Hard to believe that's not even choreographed, right? And considered out. And we don't need that shit. Like, we don't need that shit from either of them. They both need to be there

Corey 15:57

there for the people of Jasper and the people of Alberta more broadly. But that is what it is. And I think that to your question, though, it adds a whole layer of politics that's, everyone's got their guard up. Everybody's suspicious of the other person right and as long as that is the case it's just it's going to be really tough to to look at a rebuild and not and

Corey 16:21

not ask yourself the question is everybody acting here because of the interests of the people there or are they trying to serve their own interests whatever they may be what

Annalise 16:29

what about going back to the mayor and carter maybe if i phrase it this way like what advice would you give him when

Annalise 16:36

when it comes to what cory was just discussing right like does he just try his best to play nice with both the province and the feds while also being there for his people while also trying to rebuild his own house like what what kind of political strategy advice do you have for him when he's dealing with these two very different governments

Carter 16:57

well i mean it's it's almost an impossible ask i mean i'm i'm certain that this is a part-time mayor job this isn't going to be a

Carter 17:05

a full-time mayor who has a tremendous amount of political experience who can like if this was the mayor of calgary who had a significant office who had you know the capacity to play one level of government against the other and make the you know and bring

Corey 17:21

bring in employees yeah yeah

Carter 17:23

yeah this is just not where mayor island's going to find himself he's going to find himself in a position where he's trying

Carter 17:31

trying to keep up with two sets of politicians that have, you know, thousands

Carter 17:36

thousands and thousands of staff members that can be thrown at any problem. You know, the government of Alberta has a staff size that is, you know, 11 times the size of the town itself. The premier and the prime minister have the capacity of just throwing resources at this problem that

Carter 17:58

the mayor can't even imagine. My advice to the mayor would simply be try

Carter 18:02

try and find ways to get the most you possibly can and

Carter 18:07

know that maximizing the attention maximizing the opera that

Carter 18:11

that sounds horrible but maximizing the opportunity that this represents um if you'd lost your house in a home fire you do get to rebuild it better you've lost all the things in it that mattered but you do get to rebuild so i think that this is the opportunity uh

Carter 18:26

uh to rebuild and And the mayor is going to have a

Carter 18:30

hard time keeping up with the other two levels of government.

Corey 18:34

They will, but I think that that is actually the role that I suspect that they are probably best positioned to fill, right? Again, going back to where we started, let's be realistic. The mayor of Jasper is not going to be required to rebuild Jasper. Jasper is not going to be required to rebuild Jasper. That's something that's going to take the resources of the two governments that are

Corey 18:53

are supposed to be there and supposed to be in charge at moments like this. But especially when you have various players on the field, you have, of course, your own team. Carter talked about the CAO. Oh, by the way, to Carter's point about public services, he's almost sharing the keys for each other and saying, if then, Alberta's got BC as a backup for communications, and we had all of their passcodes as well. So if a disaster took out one of these provinces, it was the communications team of the other province that had to like log into Twitter and say, hey, BC's not here anymore, right? RT, like and subscribe. But yeah, as the mayor with all of these people, and the biggest risk, I think, being confusion, upset expectations, people not knowing what's going on, people leaving with different ideas of what's supposed to be happening next. As the mayor, you are going to, by merit of your office, be invited to a lot of these meetings, even if you don't really have a ton to contribute. Again, I suspect it really depends on how the governments want to manage it. But you can be the person at the end who says, okay, to recap, I just want to make sure we all have the same understanding and reiterate your understanding and watch the people in the room. We've all been in meetings where you can tell that you can tell in the meeting that the two people talking are not thinking

Corey 20:13

thinking about it in the same way. And quite often we'll leave that meeting saying, well, they'll have to fucking figure that out after. Or I guess we'll deal with that down the road. Or I don't have time for this today. As

Corey 20:22

As the mayor, you should be never taking that attitude. You should always be the person who says, okay, I get the sense that you, Danielle, and you, Justin, are thinking about this a bit different. can i clarify what you mean by rebuild main street or whatever it is right and then really forcing people to get very specific about things for your community um because there's a lot of kiting that occurs at moments like this is everybody just goes about and tries to do their own thing and if people don't trust each other they might be using coded language they might be suggesting they're going to do something but picking those words very carefully to not specifically say what they're going to do you call them on it you get it out there you get a common understanding i think that would be a great role for the mayor of jasper do

Annalise 21:08

do you think there's things that would

Annalise 21:09

would be different if this was a larger city like you you said the calgary thing cory of if a third of calgary but let's just walk through kind of the same things we've been talking about right now we're talking about a municipality of 5 000 people what about if it was calgary or a a bigger city, still

Annalise 21:26

still everything that you've been saying and all the same advice, you've just got a bigger team? Or do you play things differently?

Corey 21:34

The size of the team really does matter. I think there's something like 8,000 employees at the city of Calgary.

Corey 21:40

It's almost twice the population of Jasper, just to keep throwing out multiples of Jasper civil services here. But when

Corey 21:48

when you have that you you have capacities that are useful in moments like this you can do your own the province comes in and says well we think the road should be rebuilt this way you can go uh you know what actually we've done the study ourselves using our eight million planners and they think it should be done this way for these reasons and you just have a lot more agency you have a lot more capacity not just in you know the physical boots on the ground i've got my own people who can help rebuild this city but in the sense that you don't just have to take their word for it when they're giving you the analysis like let's just say it becomes contentious how many kilometers of firebreak do they need around certain areas of jasper you're the mayor of jasper i'm sure there's some like folklore out there i'm sure you've got experts who could say well i think that firebreak's a little big or i think that firebreak's a little small you're a city of calgary and that comes up you have you have people with phds in this stuff right you can sit and run the calculations you've got an engineering department that's that's bigger than a lot of engineering firms and you can go out and you can get your own calculations done and you can put your own proposals on the table in a way you simply can't as the mayor of a small town.

Carter 22:54

Plus, there's the ability to play politics differently.

Carter 22:57

You know, you have 14 councillors that each represent and have two MLAs in each of their wards, right? Like you have different styles of relationships. You know, there's one MLA that represents Jasper and I don't even know who it is, um but they're

Carter 23:15

they're representing a bunch of other towns as well there

Carter 23:18

there are 26 mla is representing you know the city of calgary there's just going to be different relationships and different pushbacks this is a um you know a massive difference and a massive strength i mean even in lethbridge you know we had an issue in lethbridge when i was chief of staff where there was a big windstorm with a grass fire and it really could have done a tremendous amount of damage fortunately the firefighters got it under control but you

Carter 23:46

you know when you're dealing with lethbridge you even can roll like a whole bunch of different fire trucks like they just have a totally different infrastructure

Carter 23:54

infrastructure and and capacity to deal with any of these types of issues i suspect that's one of the reasons that fort mcmurray was so successful in its rebuild um and slave lake required a lot more i think provincial resources so that's

Carter 24:12

think that this is going to be an interesting example of what would happen you know in a in the smallest tile of town where all three levels of government are involved well

Carter 24:22

which might be a setup for when banff has to deal with it yeah

Corey 24:24

yeah geez don't even say that but i'm just saying they're

Carter 24:27

they're gonna have to deal with it eventually i'll

Corey 24:29

i'll tell you though your point about politics is is really strong like one of the things about being jasper which which is part of why you need a mayor who's going to call people on it. And part of why people need to keep their eye on what's going on is that

Corey 24:43

everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people have moved on. The news cycle has moved on. We're not talking about Jasper every day. If a city like Calgary, a third of it burned down, we'd be talking about that every day. It would be the biggest thing in the world. Like the politics of it would be so all consuming, right? Just like an incredible, incredible amount of conversation driven or, you know, driven in perpetuity because a third of the MLAs are, from here right it it just would be so much more front and center and there are pros to that and there are cons to that but i think if you're a jasper as everybody drifts away you need to make sure they're

Corey 25:19

they're not drifting away in a way that is harmful to your community like public interest is one thing public

Corey 25:25

public resources is another yeah

Carter 25:27

yeah i just remember the flood cory you know like the flood impacted about 10 of the calgary of the city of calgary yeah

Carter 25:34

and the other 90 moved on pretty damn quick oh

Corey 25:36

oh yeah yeah yeah just very much yeah

Annalise 25:43

what about um you've mentioned bamf we we just mentioned the flood and not just fires but hail storms wind storms hurricanes whatever natural disasters do you think as a politician going forward like this is just something that you need to bake into your understanding that this is this could happen during your term um and talk to me about what what that looks like like i you know 50 years ago 100 years ago where you 10

Annalise 26:09

10 years ago 20 years ago were people who wanted to run for public office thinking about that like oh what what does it look like when my community is hit with this bad thing and i

Annalise 26:19

i mean it sounds so crass and so bad but like what does that mean for me politically no

Corey 26:25

no i mean if politicians aren't thinking about it they should and you don't have to look very far or very hard to see that quite Quite often, the response to the disaster becomes the defining thing about a politician's career, good and bad, right? And we remember these things. And I think about George W. Bush, and we've got to give him two that just everybody immediately remembers. 9-11, of course, which is not a natural disaster, but it had many of the same elements in the sense that people were just looking for a leader. Nobody wanted to break ranks on what had occurred. It was all America, America, America. And the other was Hurricane Katrina. and

Corey 27:01

you'll recall that was a disaster

Corey 27:03

disaster not just in terms of the disaster itself but in terms of the response and there's the famous you're doing a heck of a job brownie to his political appointee who was the head of fema who was just truly fucking up everything everywhere all the time and it it's just it's one of those things that becomes indelible and it certainly is if you are somebody who's in one of the affected communities and and you know to your point governments do budget for this stuff right there's a contingency every year it's a couple hundred million dollars historically in alberta and some years historically you use almost none of it like you use 20 30 million you're almost looking for excuses to use it like well maybe we can put something into crop support right and other years it's like i can't believe we thought 200 million would be enough four billion dollars later as a town you know like it's just it's one of those things that's supposed to be insurance that on i'm not sure that it's ever expected that on net it balances out but kind of that's supposed to be the theory there now right but it's it's not just that politicians are going to need to think part of their job is this disaster response part of their job is managing budgets that have to do with these disasters creating public services that are prepared to respond to these disasters and we are seeing some some interesting things that we'll have to look at once all of the final narration summation comes out like i can't believe how many people are now experts in fighting wildfires and what's the proper way to staff these things i am not pretending to be one of them but certainly there have been discussions over the past couple of years as to do we have the right resources to fight wildfires right and maybe

Corey 28:46

maybe the conversations need to shift pretty significantly because the consequence is so massive maybe you need to have have 10 million dollars of extra firefighters on hand that four years out of five have nothing to do because in that fifth year you really fucking need them maybe the way governments approach a lot of stuff is going to have to change as we move into more extreme weather carter

Annalise 29:07

carter how how do you go about that politically when it's not sexy like it's not it's not sexy to be talking about upgrading water infrastructure or creating

Annalise 29:17

creating a fire break around a town or you know that that sort of stuff and it's costly too right like look at the flood that happened um

Annalise 29:24

um in calgary and we're still working on mitigation how how

Annalise 29:28

how do you as like a like a local counselor who's in there for four years how

Annalise 29:34

do you go about doing

Annalise 29:36

doing those things that are costly and big and maybe won't um have effect for years down the road well

Carter 29:45

well you start by declaring a climate emergency and

Corey 29:48

then you get the fuck out out of here no

Corey 29:51

no i mean for our non-calgary listeners i don't even want to explain that explain that

Corey 29:57

they can look it up they

Carter 29:58

they can look it up here's i once

Carter 30:01

once been on a project for banff town of banff as you know middle of a forest natural right in the middle lots of lots of fire potential and the contract basically was hey how do we get people to move all the shit that can burn near their house, away from their house. So if you've ever walked past a house and they've got all that wood stacked against the house, not great. If you've got bushes that kind of lead up to the front of the house, dry bushes, dry grass, not great. So if you want to have a fireproof home, you have to remove some of these materials and you have to put them in different places. You have to move them further away. You keep, you know, less logs on your property, those types types of things. And the answer that I came up with, and this is probably why I didn't get the contract, the only thing that people are responding to in today's world is shame.

Carter 30:55

And I think that that's where we're going to have to see some politicians jumping into this fray. That, you

Carter 31:01

you know, the people who aren't participating, and don't get me wrong, I don't think they will. I think that we will see towns burn. I think we will see houses come down before any really strong political leadership actually starts to stand up and say you're part of the we are part of the problem we're

Carter 31:18

we're the reason that these i mean do you remember the great conspiracy that danielle smith threw out that the reason we had so many fires is that most of them were man-made and that's why we were having such a bad smoke season um that's a far easier explanation than you know we've got so many fucking idiots throwing their cigarette butts out the out the window of their car and And that just catches the... We drove past a grass fire just yesterday.

Carter 31:42

Some fucking asshole flicking his fucking cigarette out the fucking window.

Carter 31:47

You know, we're going to have to do shame. And we're going to have to stand up and say that

Carter 31:51

that if you don't have these... If you didn't move the logs away from your house, if you're still throwing your cigarette butts out the window, then you are part of the problem. How

Carter 32:02

were you going to

Annalise 32:03

to do the shame in your fails? Yeah,

Carter 32:06

I'm curious too. We

Carter 32:07

were literally going to go door-to-door because it's a small enough community and we were going to give them a green sticker, a yellow sticker, or a red sticker.

Carter 32:18

just going to put

Annalise 32:18

put it on their door? Yeah.

Carter 32:22

Didn't win the contract.

Corey 32:24

know what the winning contract is? But it is kind of like the restaurant thing.

Carter 32:28

No, they did the same PSA bullshit. They took $100,000,

Carter 32:33

put it in the middle of Banff, and set it off. hopefully away

Corey 32:36

away from buildings. Corey, what

Annalise 32:38

what were you going to say about the restaurants?

Corey 32:40

Well, you go to a lot of cities and you'll see the restaurant grade in the window, right? A, B, C, D, F, right? It's a bit like that, but for your house, you know, there is a certain level of shame on it. I think if there's a jurisdiction you could potentially get away with that, it is a national park. It's interesting to think about. Yeah,

Corey 32:58

people would lose their fucking minds. Wouldn't people just take the stickers off? Well, but why don't they take down the letter grade? Like, you could actually pass a bylaw that they're required to have this sticker visible, right?

Carter 33:10

And if you don't have the sticker visible, I mean, who's taking the sticker down? Yellows and reds. Green's not taking down the sticker.

Annalise 33:17

It blew away. My sticker blew away. Carter, very interesting story. You didn't answer my question at all. Corey.

Carter 33:24

not unusual. Is that unusual, Corey? Welcome back.

Carter 33:26

Welcome back to the strategist.

Annalise 33:29

Corey, can you walk me through, like, strategy-wise, politically, Politically, how do you go about having these conversations at local levels of, hey, we're going to have to spend all this money on mitigation that may or may not help us years down the road?

Corey 33:46

know, my answer is that you don't, right? It's a funny thing, but the minute you politicize this, I think you're a bit doomed. And then you're going to have people arguing about the left wing and the right wing way to build water pipes to purchase, you know, backup fire trucks to create fire breaks. And I don't fucking need that. Like, in some ways, I think we do need to keep this at the administrative level. And what politicians need to do is say it is the municipal government equivalent of just paying your fucking taxes. Nobody loves doing it, but you know, you got to do it. A certain amount of money needs to be set aside for this. And what could really help municipalities in that space is if the higher order of government could mandate a certain requirement for this, maybe even mandate that money goes into a pool for this. And yeah, nobody loves that lack of municipal sovereignty, but the fact of the matter is, if it's unglamorous and if nobody wants to do it,

Corey 34:40

yeah, you just make a rule, right? You just make a rule that's required to do it. But if you're a politician, would I recommend to a politician, you've got to run on building redundant infrastructure and prudence of, you know, getting ready for these things? Probably not. I don't think that politician is going to do particularly well. And if that's the case, and if I want it to happen anyways, I think you've got to deal with it on a more technocratic level.

Carter 35:04

How was my answer any different than his answer?

Corey 35:07

I mean, you had the sticker thing. Were

Corey 35:10

Were the stickers going

Annalise 35:11

going to be like big circles or what shape were the stickers? They

Carter 35:13

They were going to be big stickers, yeah. No, what shape?

Carter 35:18

I don't know. We hadn't gotten that far because we didn't get the contract. I

Carter 35:21

I don't know if you're aware of that. What about the insurance?

Carter 35:24

Well, insurance is going to be near impossible for cities and for individuals. It's

Corey 35:28

It's hard to imagine we're going to even have private insurance at this rate. Yeah, we're going to have to have public insurance.

Annalise 35:34

How is this going to work? And you go through the list of the most expensive natural disasters in Canadian history. How many are in Alberta? Alberta uh and two more two more that

Annalise 35:45

happened this summer right Jasper we don't have a cost on that yet and the hailstorm right like if if those are also on there just walk me through the strategy and the politics of the insurance angle here well

Corey 35:57

well it's you know it's like a jurisdiction like California you just can't get certain insurance right you can't get because like what's earthquake insurance going to do every everyone's house is going to go if there's an an earthquake and the insurance company will go bankrupt trying to support it in

Corey 36:12

the loosest laziest terms there's insurance but then insurance companies purchase what's reinsurance right which allows them to insure against a black swan event just taking them down and what you're finding is reinsurance is

Corey 36:25

is also struggling like they don't want to insure these insurance companies who have so much exposure to areas like alberta i don't know specifically what i'm saying areas like that where all of a sudden it becomes very difficult to to ever conceivably have more coming in in premiums than is going out in payouts for these particular matters here and

Corey 36:45

so what you do find in those situations is the government has to step in the government you know whether it's hurricanes in florida or it's earthquakes in california they have to go in and mandate a certain level of insurance which is basically not that and and just prepare and have the money ready and pool and and rebuild, and everyone can expect a certain level of rebuild, but maybe not the Cadillac rebuild, because they want you to have some personal responsibility in this game too. And it's very easy to be, I shouldn't say it's very easy, that's not right.

Corey 37:16

Governments are not overly taxed being generous when you have these events once every 10 years, but if they're perpetually happening, you know, can you really afford to give somebody everybody

Corey 37:29

that thousand dollar debit card times a million if a city like calgary needed to be evacuated right can

Corey 37:34

can you really afford to

Corey 37:36

to rebuild a city the size of lethbridge in

Corey 37:40

the same way right it becomes more challenging unless you're preparing for this and you're planning and you're moving forward here and the role of private insurance if

Corey 37:49

if they're the ones who are expected to rebuild like you will take down every insurance company in this fucking country if they have to rebuild a city of say 400 000 people and

Corey 37:59

and they're insured in it right so

Annalise 38:01

so what's what's the line like when do when

Annalise 38:03

when do they say hey no insurance for you alberta i

Carter 38:08

think it's still be out of insurance in a decade yeah

Corey 38:11

yeah like right now you can get hail insurance on your car no problem right not

Carter 38:16

not if you live

Corey 38:17

live in the northeast we'll

Corey 38:18

we'll see well that's my point right yeah like we will see what happens over the next bit because those tables will change and it'll either become so expensive that nobody has it as an option or they will just exit that market and and this

Corey 38:35

this is a game of chicken insurance companies play play with governments because governments don't want to they know what happens if somebody exits the market entirely right it's

Corey 38:44

it's on them okay

Annalise 38:46

okay last Last question on natural disasters here is just general advice. Carter, it doesn't matter if you're like the mayor of a massive city or a little municipality. What is your like top line big piece of advice when you're dealing with a natural disaster?

Carter 39:07

That is the big piece. I mean, as soon as people get back into their homes on Friday, I'd be having a town hall probably Monday or Tuesday. I wouldn't have much of an agenda. I would just have the open

Carter 39:20

open mic. Let's hear what you have to say. Right. And maybe you have three or four of them so that you have multiple communities and your counselors are listening in one community and you're listening in another community. This is not the time to disappear. This is the time to be seen, to be heard. And it doesn't matter necessarily. It's not like the immediate crisis is, you know, is still underway where we We were talking with Zane about, you know, doing an hourly update

Carter 39:48

update or anything like that. This is more of a listening tour. This is more where you get the other half of communications, where you listen rather

Carter 39:56

rather than just simply talk, which is basically what Corey and I do when you're here. We just listen.

Annalise 40:03

Corey, what's your advice?

Corey 40:06

Well, I think that's pretty good for the next six months here. But my advice for any community that's going through a disaster like this is this

Corey 40:14

this right now, everybody's in there. Everybody's there for you. There's this massive sense of community. Your neighbors are helping you out. You're helping your neighbors out. Your government is there. Albertans are sending care packages. Albertans are opening their homes. homes. And there is a moment that hits 12 months, 18 months after the disaster where none of that's there anymore, but the problems are still there. Your PTSD from such a traumatic event is there, but the community isn't in the same way. You feel this almost hollowness about it here. People need to prepare for the mental health problems to come and realize that this is a marathon in ways that they cannot appreciate right now. It can be really tough picking up up your life after this and after the almost euphoria of the moment of hey we're all helping each other out is gone you

Corey 41:03

you are back in jasper and you break into a cold sweat every time you hear there's a fire within a thousand kilometers right

Corey 41:09

right and so i think one of the things that

Corey 41:12

that everybody needs to be live to whether they've been affected by this or whether they know somebody who's been affected by this and certainly any government is you can't pull up stakes once the final road is rebuilt, right? There are people there who are going to be dealing with this the rest of their lives. And if you're the mayor of a place like Jasper, you need to be elbows up and making sure that there are commitments for those supports for as long as those people need them, when those people need them. These things are wild. And I've never lost my house to a fire. I'm not going to pretend I understand it. But you get kind of an unfortunate perch when you've worked in some of these government jobs, and you see some of the consequences, and you see some of the pain and the frustration and, you know, the long-term health problems that come and people just need to be ready for that as well. Like we don't get to dust our hands and say Jasper's rebuilt. That never happens at this point. Jasper, the people in Jasper will never be fully rebuilt from this. So we need to be there for them.

Annalise 42:08

Corey, just to follow up on that is, do you run again, right? Like we're talking about municipal politicians that are doing four-year terms. Depending on where this hits in your term, Do you, like, I

Annalise 42:23

I guess obviously it's a personal decision, but is there a case to be made that, hey, this is just, there's too much stress and it's a part-time job and I'm a small-town mayor and no, not doing this again?

Corey 42:35

I mean, again, you're right, it's personal. Do you want this? You've got an awful lot that's going on in your own life here in that situation.

Corey 42:46

I don't know. No, I mean, I certainly you can make the case that being there for those next few years,

Corey 42:51

that's helpful from a continuity point of view.

Corey 42:54

That's not the job you signed up for. Don't put that on yourself. It's going to take a lot of people to make sure things go right over the next bit. And yes, a mayor can be helpful, but a different mayor can be helpful too. And you are not the only person who lived in Jasper as this all went on, right? So there is an opportunity to get somebody in who might be willing to fight that fight for a little bit longer after you You fought it in some pretty high stakes, some pretty high temperatures, some pretty tense moments, you know, for months. The next election is next year, right? You're going to have to be dealing with this for the next bit.

Annalise 43:27

Okay, we will wrap that segment up there. Guys, next segment, as you know, I've been a bit, normally I'm hyper tuned in. I've been a bit tuned out the past six months. What's going on

Carter 43:39

on in your life?

Annalise 43:39

Nancy won the leadership.

Annalise 43:42

Stuff has been happening.

Annalise 43:43

Yeah. Who helped him win?

Corey 43:48

It just happened. Yeah.

Carter 43:49

Yeah. It seemed to be a groundswell. A

Corey 43:53

A couple of people are claiming credit for it at this point, but really.

Carter 43:58

I mean, we haven't had anybody come on our show and explain what happened. That's for sure.

Annalise 44:03

Spilling secrets on a different show, I've heard. Guys, what? Okay. I want to go through and we'll kind of take turns here. Federal politics, Alberta politics, American politics. We can add Calgary politics in there because, you know, I love it. I want to know in your mind, Stephen Carter, we'll start with you. What has been the most consequential event in federal politics that has happened over the past six months?

Carter 44:28

Oh, I would say the by-election loss in Toronto. Toronto. Uh, the writing name is escaping me, but, uh, I

Carter 44:38

I think that was the one where we really dug into what is this going to mean for the prime minister? And I think that the hangover from that event is still, uh, is still there. Uh, especially when we're talking about the by-elections that are going to happen, I think it's on September the 12th. So

Carter 44:55

I think that's the, the by-election, uh, the by-election in Toronto, St. Paul's.

Corey 45:00

So I, I mean, I could give of that answer i think in some ways it's

Corey 45:04

it's like the suez crisis right where the uk walked in and they thought they were a superpower and they realized part way through the crisis they were no longer the world's police that was now the united states toronto st paul's is like that it's not the event that that made justin trudeau in the precarious state he's in but it's certainly the one that exposed it to the entire world in a pretty significant fashion and for me i think the the most consequential thing that occurred in federal politics in the last six months was the budget. Because in the lead up to the budget, you had the liberal glitterati

Corey 45:43

glitterati having conversations on the side about how this was all going to turn it around, get

Corey 45:48

get a couple of points from the budget, we'll start moving up, we'll start taking the fight to Pierre Poliev.

Corey 45:53

They put in a lot of progressive goodies, right? This is a standard approach that liberals have used to success since 2015 and what was consequential about this budget is it it didn't work right even if you pull on the items individually and people support them and you know we had pharma care in that we had pharma care in that i mean it was watered down pharma care but it's something people have been talking about forever people

Corey 46:17

people like it did not help the liberal numbers in fact the liberal numbers continue to decline so i think the fact that the trick stopped working with that That budget is the most consequential thing that happened. And it's the thing that should have everybody else thinking about the other things. Those, of course, being a change in leadership and massive overhauls with the Liberal Party.

Carter 46:38

you going to ask him why he's wrong?

Annalise 46:40

Well, no, I was going to ask Carter if you want to do a rebuttal of why your event is more consequential than the budget.

Carter 46:48

Well, because his failed, right?

Carter 46:50

because how can something that failed be the most consequential? hold on he also failed in toronto st paul's never mind never mind i'm i uh i i rescind my my earlier comments i

Corey 47:03

cory's right i'll give i'll give kind of like an honorable mention right i'm

Carter 47:07

i'm more writer i'm writer on toronto st paul's i'll

Corey 47:10

i'll give an honorable mention to how um the

Corey 47:14

the war in gaza has bled into federal politics and really created big cracks in the uh in the federal liberal coalition tell

Annalise 47:22

tell me more about this cory expand i

Corey 47:25

i i mean i'm i've you've got you've got a traditional liberal power base in in the canadian jewish community uh certainly in montreal and in toronto in toronto st paul's in fact you could make a case and you have a traditional liberal power base in new canadian communities which have been And relative to years past, disproportionately Muslim. And the Muslim population has grown significantly in Canada. We talked a bit about the demographics when this was all popping off. And, you know, at one point, three to two, three percent to two percent, there were more Jewish Canadians than Muslim Canadians. Not to be reductive and make this about religion. It's certainly not. And it cuts across in a lot of very interesting ways. But now it's like nine to three. Like there are three times as many Muslims as Jewish Canadians, as Muslim Canadians as Jewish Canadians. And that is having, that's another thing where this changed gradually over time, but you had a moment where all of a sudden it became clear to people that maybe this has created ties to different homelands and different cultures and different connections that really fundamentally changed some of those connections internally in Canada too. too.

Corey 48:35

And the liberals no longer just get to hand wave this away and say, you know, our position is kind of this generic bland support for Israel. It's now a much more complicated conversation for them. And that

Corey 48:46

that is making it difficult for them to make any additional turns to move on to the, you know, the fight with Pierre Polyev. And you don't necessarily have those same tensions in the other two federal parties the the ndp is is very much the the peace party at this particular moment and the conservatives are very much the the staunch supporters of israel at this moment not to say that there's not tensions in those groups but they don't define the party the way they define the liberals right now which have an

Corey 49:18

an urban core and have a new canadian core and you know those those are kind of dueling with each other right now carter

Annalise 49:26

carter do you have an honorable No,

Carter 49:28

but I do want to pick up where Corey is. Corey's point, I mean, I just think that this is bigger than Gaza and Israel. There is, you know, also a significant Hindu population that is very supportive of Moti and have been very, you know, willing

Carter 49:46

willing to engage and be frustrated by Trudeau's relationship with that, with

Carter 49:53

with that regime, I'm going to call it a regime. I think that what we've taken for granted as quote-unquote ethnic politics in Canada over the past 30, 40 years may

Carter 50:07

may have been thrown up in the air in the last two.

Carter 50:11

So I'm not sure it's the last six months, but certainly within the last two years, we've seen significant shifts in how ethnic politics is unfolding in Canada. Of

Corey 50:23

Of course, these are all the wrong answers, and the right answer is housing. to to all questions in canadian politics but yeah

Carter 50:30

yeah it's pretty boring though uh

Annalise 50:31

uh okay cory we'll start with you on this one what has been the most consequential event in alberta politics over the past six months that

Corey 50:41

that is a little tougher to pin down i i it would be hard not to say it's the election of nahid nancy as ndp leader right because that's the big set piece change that's occurred here i

Corey 50:54

i don't know can can the answer be the fact that the

Corey 50:58

the ucp still lead in most polls like one one of the things that's interesting is that like there hasn't been a big shift of opinion away from the ucp despite everything that's been going on including not heading nancy's election it's

Annalise 51:11

it's a good answer cory carter what's your answer i'm

Carter 51:16

i'm gonna say that it's actually something that we're gearing up for in the future that we're feeling in the past so the leadership review that's coming in november has resulted in a number of uh changes in legislation even something as simple as the elimination of electronic tabulators from our municipal elections which is laughable to the extreme uh but you know when you read the legislation there's a number of of places in there where people are um uh

Carter 51:44

uh very concerned about the americanization of politics and you know getting us hacked and presentation

Carter 51:51

presentation of id and and things that we didn't used to worry about as canadian uh voters uh you know taking out vouching uh that's just bill 20 there's uh there's a whole bunch of other legislation that has tried to protect danielle smith from uh the the future problem of her leadership review so i'm i'm choosing something that happens in the future that's

Carter 52:14

answer to the biggest thing in

Annalise 52:16

in the past six

Carter 52:16

six months is something that's happening how

Corey 52:19

how dare you let's

Carter 52:20

your fucking question annalise okay was

Corey 52:23

was that an answer get off my

Corey 52:25

don't know man okay carter

Annalise 52:27

carter american politics what has been the most consequential event over the past six months in american politics okay

Carter 52:34

okay before i say this how can we not say the attempted assassination of an american president and

Carter 52:40

yet it is not the most consequential event the most consequential event is the rise of kamala kamala harris has gone through the roof i'm seeing polls right now that are unbelievable in the swing states you can't even like yeah

Corey 52:55

yeah like up nine points in michigan i saw today what the fuck

Carter 52:58

fuck where did that

Carter 52:58

come from like we were down by four it's a 13 point switch how the fuck is that happening So, the attempted assassination of a former president is not the most consequential thing. It is the thing that happened less than a fucking week later.

Annalise 53:18

It's just wild. Corey, do you have the same answer as Carter on that one? No,

Corey 53:23

No, it's obviously that J.D. Vance fucked a couch.

Corey 53:28

Allegedly. No, it happened. I heard it on Twitter. No,

Corey 53:32

Carter's right. Obviously, the Harris campaign just existing. And man,

Corey 53:38

man, you didn't even mention Joe Biden resigning, right? He's still there as president, but that was crazy. crazy you could make the argument because it is it is maybe the the instigating event that the most consequential thing in american politics in the last six months was joe biden's debate with donald trump on primetime television from there yeah all chaos occurs that's

Carter 54:02

that's a good point

Annalise 54:04

that is a good point cory good answers guys predictable uh you said you said what i i predicted you would say you said all the things that i was aware of having not paid much attention other

Annalise 54:14

other other than you're gonna bring

Carter 54:15

bring up so you thought i was gonna bring up the leadership review other

Annalise 54:18

other than that just just to be just

Corey 54:19

just to be clear you you thought that the biggest thing would be something you hadn't heard of yeah

Annalise 54:25

than carter's uh oh

Corey 54:27

oh that was the answer in the future which

Annalise 54:29

was the nice trick good one carter guys let's move it on to the lightning was that a game show did i win a prize yeah

Corey 54:36

yeah you did uh

Annalise 54:37

round we'll do this super quick and And then we will call it a night. Twitter. Who's off it? Who's on it? Tell me your status on Twitter these days.

Corey 54:49

Not on it. There, but not doing anything.

Annalise 54:51

anything. You're still off of it, Corey?

Corey 54:53

Yeah. He deleted his account.

Corey 54:54

deleted my account months ago.

Annalise 54:56

You haven't come back.

Annalise 54:59

Carter, you went off it and came back on it? I

Carter 55:02

I go on it periodically, post

Carter 55:04

post something stupid, reminded that it's a fucking lunatic asylum, and then I leave again. yeah so you

Annalise 55:10

keep doing it yeah

Corey 55:11

yeah translated he posts things people hate on him he leaves in a huff and then he comes back a bit later classic steven carter

Carter 55:19

okay that's why i go to the discord now yeah

Corey 55:22

yeah it's all about the discord and

Carter 55:24

and and bring my big daddy energy i think that's what they're calling it i don't like that no

Carter 55:30

no i'm not right i did that

Annalise 55:32

yeah don't say that um what else do i have olympics over olympics are done overrated or underrated where are you you guys had on olympics underrated

Corey 55:39

underrated it's fantastic so good one of the best olympics in decades yeah why

Annalise 55:45

attention at all i

Corey 55:46

i think the last olympics that i thought was this good was 2008 in beijing why

Carter 55:50

why was it so good uh

Carter 55:52

artistry the athletics the competitions the oh the

Corey 55:55

the venues so many good stories especially as canadians watching right yeah

Corey 56:00

you know the summer of summers yeah i Yeah,

Annalise 56:03

I did see that, Summer of Summer. We dominated Hammer

Carter 56:07

watched Hammer Throw for like an hour and a half.

Corey 56:10

We won Men's Breaking, which is what we're calling breakdancing now. It's called breaking.

Annalise 56:14

breaking. Do not call it the other thing. It's just breaking. Yeah. I did see the Australian breaking girl. Yeah,

Corey 56:22

that went so great. That wasn't as good.

Annalise 56:26

So great. I expect more from Australia.

Annalise 56:28

Last lightning round question. Guys, new art project in Calgary today. I'm not sure if you've heard, brand new. You can call a phone number, like 1-800 number, and then the Bow River answers. You hear the rushing, gurgling, babbling voice of the Bow River.

Annalise 56:46

If you guys were to set up a phone line where you could just call and hear

Corey 56:51

someone's voice. We did that years ago.

Carter 56:54

We've already done this. Yeah,

Corey 56:55

Yeah, we've done this.

Carter 56:55

this. We didn't call it an art project. We could have got funding.

Annalise 57:00

i didn't i wasn't aware that you've done this before my question was going to be if you were to do this because it seems like the type of thing you would do which clearly it is

Corey 57:07

is clearly it is whose voice

Annalise 57:08

voice whose voice would be uh on the other end i

Corey 57:12

believe it was zane's when we recorded it so yeah i guess the answer is zane's because we did it for

Carter 57:17

for to done this we are so far ahead of you like we have done the telephone line what was it again called uh

Corey 57:23

uh well it was we did it in the The 2015 federal election, you'll recall there was the announcement made, I believe by Jason Kenney, that there was going to be a barbaric cultural practices hotline, and

Corey 57:35

and you would call in and you could report barbaric cultural practices. So we created the barbaric political practices hotline, and you could call in and report barbaric political practices where people were just being real shits in politics, and you could leave it as a voicemail for us.

Annalise 57:51

Did you get a lot of calls?

Corey 57:52

calls? There's a chance that we still pay for that and that still exists. I love

Annalise 57:57

that you already did the thing that I thought when I saw the thing today. I'm like, you know what? This seems like the type of thing Corey and Carter would do. You've already done it.

Carter 58:06

Unlimited joke budget. Yeah. It's an important part of our story. I

Annalise 58:10

I love it. Okay, guys. That is a wrap on episode 1819 of The Strategist. I'm your host, Annalise. No, I don't say that. How do I end? Just as a wrap? Do I reintroduce us?

SPEAKER_02 58:28

We'll be right back.

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