Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1270. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.
Corey
0:11
Annalise is back. It's so good.
Annalise
0:14
I'm here. It's been a few weeks. Annalise
Corey
0:16
Annalise is back. You're looking rougher
Annalise
0:17
rougher than the last time I saw you.
Annalise
0:22
I mean that quite not to be mean. Nice to see you too. Well, genuinely.
Carter
0:30
yeah no i mean i guess age
Carter
0:34
have anything happening in
Corey
0:35
in real time both
Carter
0:35
you i need to have a haircut this is something i've been putting off i need to look
Annalise
0:40
look at it's like he's got mad professor hair i
Carter
0:43
have and look at it it's a mess because i went for a big bike ride i went for a big bike ride and it was really fun and uh i i need to know annalise have you been to it does
Corey
0:56
does occur to me i'm the person trying to find snow so i can go bike
Corey
1:00
bike riding i could just let you guys go and just like that it
Corey
1:05
is yeah it's like i put the music at the start and the music at the end and it's a word you
Carter
1:09
you use loosely my friend because
Corey
1:13
agree to disagree yeah yeah
Carter
1:15
yeah that doesn't feel so much like editing so much as posting having
Corey
1:20
it a few times and I can
Carter
1:22
assure you it's not really that
Carter
1:24
that much work I
Carter
1:28
did it once that one time remember I got it now I wouldn't try and do a public episode but this is going
Corey
1:33
going to be a big schedule here who
Annalise
1:35
who the fuck cares how
Annalise
1:37
did this happen it's
Corey
1:38
it's like breakfast for dinner
Carter
1:42
well we tried to do one we tried to do one Thursday
Carter
1:47
tried to do one Friday we tried to do one Saturday saturday didn't work so here we are because i just assumed
Corey
1:54
assumed we were gonna do an episode and then we didn't
Corey
1:59
at the time we always do it what we're gonna do just on the thing we were
Carter
2:04
were gonna communicate i
Corey
2:06
can't back that up i'm the guy who sends the link around so yeah
Corey
2:11
you wouldn't have yeah
Carter
2:14
yeah i was gonna say i got no link if i've gotten a link i'll tell you this my saturday night was that kind of okay guys let's
Annalise
2:20
let's talk about some stuff things have been happening people have wanted an episode uh
Annalise
2:26
uh there was some news friday night from cbc's jason markasoff it was then confirmed on saturday during premier daniel smith's call-in radio show oh
Annalise
2:35
smith she's doing it guys she's going to use the sovereignty act to challenge ottawa's requirement to achieve a net zero electricity grid by 2035 so she she confirmed the scoop on saturday uh we're gonna get details tomorrow she says what
Annalise
2:53
what what are your thoughts um
Annalise
2:56
cory this is it's happening it's
Annalise
2:58
it's happening yeah what do you think for
Corey
3:00
for those who have uh what are our thoughts gracefully remained unaware of this or from outside of the province you could just put that in a box to say that's alberta's problem a bit of a reminder the sovereignty act when when Danielle Smith was running to be leader of the United Conservative Party here in Alberta, was supposed to be this thing that essentially allowed us to ignore,
Corey
3:21
ignore, override federal... It was never really clear, right?
Corey
3:25
But then what ultimately the Sovereignty Act became was a very fancy way of stating that if the government didn't like something, they
Corey
3:34
they were going to use provincial powers to make that not happen, which is something they always had the authority to do, at least in theory so the sovereignty act doesn't say you have the ability to ignore federal law it doesn't say in fact it very explicitly says it's kind of like bordered by the courts and the constitution and all of this it gives cabinet ministers the power to let me check my notes here uh exercise their power as cabinet ministers and um and at one
Corey
4:01
one point there was a very kind of weird thing where it allowed cabinet only that power essentially write laws without going to the legislature but even that was pulled out so it
Corey
4:10
it doesn't say a ton just to begin right so to invoke the sovereignty act at least in theory doesn't mean a lot but again this would mean um you know that analysis would mean kind of applying this act that doesn't mean very much in a way that is consistent and consistency hasn't been a strong suit of this government so i mean we're all just waiting to see like we're waiting to see what possibly this government could do that would allow it to get out of federal law which is again not something the government has the power to do so um wait and see maybe they'll try to push things further maybe
Corey
4:48
maybe it'll be like the sovereignty act of yore or the dream of the sovereignty act of yore where they attempt to accomplish things that the provincial government does not have the power to accomplish or maybe it'll just be more nothing you know but once again we can wake up in alberta and say oh it's this we're dealing with uh instead of i don't know education hospitals roads making life better you
Corey
5:11
kind of the usual
Annalise
5:12
alberta carter what what are your initial thoughts oh
Carter
5:18
we're so cute um
Carter
5:21
um my initial thoughts are kind of like i'm actually glad they're going to invoke it because then it kind of it forces uh an expectation of outcome right and i think that and cory maybe we'll correct me on this because he's been known to spout off occasionally but i
Carter
5:38
mean the law that was passed was very much watered down i think from the promises i mean the promises were really really big and the act itself is relatively small i mean cory's picked on the the one segment that says that cabinet ministers shall act as cabinet ministers but essentially what this act reads as is a formalized temper tantrum um you know we don't like it damn it i remember actually i had my own sovereignty act when i used to live at home with my parents and i was 11 and when i was 11 i did not like what my parents were proposing as rules um and i asserted myself using my own sovereignty act and you know what happened not
Carter
6:17
not a fucking thing i still had to abide by the rules so um if this works cory and i are working on calgary's sovereignty act it's going to be spectacular uh because no word of lie if if anybody can just start uh you know declaring themselves free of of legislation i mean i think it should be cory and i um because really we're one step away from benevolent
Corey
6:40
zane will not make the cut at least
Carter
6:43
least he'll be there yeah
Carter
6:43
i mean zane won't but we'll bring you along cory
Annalise
6:46
cory if we know
Annalise
6:47
zane is not making the cut this is what should
Annalise
6:51
should justin trudeau do like let's say you're advising him what's his strategy here i'm
Corey
6:55
i'm i'm so tempted to say the metaphor is like what you would do as a parent which is you don't give give into it you don't indulge it and in fact you probably don't acknowledge it because even acknowledging it is giving uh the child somewhat what they want right so we've all even if you're not a parent you've seen this in a grocery store where the somebody is losing their absolute ever loving shit i'm talking about a child at this point and the parents just going
Corey
7:20
going about their business parents just doing their thing and any parent is like yeah i know that move and
Corey
7:25
i endorse that move and i think some non-parents are like why are these people ignoring their children well that's why right because they actually want the attention and so you don't give them the attention so i'm tempted to take that metaphor and say that's what justin trudeau does and maybe that is the advice but i think ultimately we're gonna have to wait and see what the substance of it is because if it does push into if it is a formalized temper tantrum that's probably the play but if it does sort of push the boundaries of what is actually legally allowed well you can't really let that go but well
Carter
8:02
keep in mind though we're trying to change something like this legislation supposed to change in like 2035 right like we have to stop polluting the world by 2035 it doesn't feel to me like like
Carter
8:14
like this is going to be something that's going to necessarily necessarily well i agree with you you know if if
Corey
8:19
if this was like an isolated thing but i would say that in general if i have a big critique of the federal government and i don't just mean the trudeau government i mean the federal government under harper i mean under martin i mean under krechen going back now into the 90s at least is nobody is willing to stand up and say you can't fucking do that right and we've sort of piled up this kind of totally ineffectual federal federal government as a result, ignores
Corey
8:44
ignores when the Notwithstanding Clause gets used regularly, turns a blind eye to violations of kind of federal laws in Quebec, turns a blind eye of federal laws in any other jurisdiction of the country where it deems political sensitive necessity, including here in Alberta. And it's just become a very weak government and nobody seems willing to stand up for the notion of Canada at this point. So I do hope the federal government, And if this does push the boundaries beyond propriety, stands up and says, you know, we're done, we're not having enough. I just hope they also take that approach with Quebec, with Atlantic Canada, you
Corey
9:22
you know, with the Prairie Provinces, with anybody who might take that particular approach. I
Carter
9:29
Now you're just a dreamer. Well, it would destroy the
Corey
9:31
the country because they've let it pile up so badly here, you know? I mean, it's ridiculous.
Carter
9:38
yeah i mean this
Carter
9:40
idea that that there are things that are actually enforceable i almost think is laughable because everything has moved so far away um you know and that and and the the the discomfort of having uh issues decided at the supreme court just kind of feels like you know the overreach of the government coupled with the uh you know so the overreach and legislation coupled with the underreach in terms of actual enforcement leaves us with this giant you know wait till i tell your father type of view towards the federal government i just don't feel like well you know and it's
Corey
10:14
thing it's got any way the federal government has like
Corey
10:17
this evolved over the past couple of decades here is they avoid kind of the real specific things that are in their jurisdiction um or the legislation that's tied to transfer payments like like the Canada Health Act, which is arguably not jurisdiction, but, you know, well established and all of that.
Corey
10:34
And then they go out and they just do new shit, right? Like ban plastic straws, which then the courts slap them down for here. So, you know, the theory of federal government, I think, is looking
Corey
10:43
looking pretty shit, at least, you know, from my approach here. And I do wonder if somebody is going to try to write that at some point. But yeah,
Corey
10:51
like the idea that the provincial government would just say, we're not going to do a thing we're required to do, if that's what it ends up being tomorrow and could just be the formalized temper tantrum but if it if it is more along the lines of we're not going to do a thing we're required to do it
Corey
11:05
it does somewhat demand a response from the federal government to get to the answer of the question there
Carter
11:13
yeah but it's it it's also it's just to my earlier point it's we're not going to do this thing that's required by 2035 or 2030 isn't i
Carter
11:23
mean you're gonna have i mean there'll be a brand new government one hopes but uh i mean
Carter
11:28
mean this is just embarrassing for for the province and the reason i think it's going to be good that they're actually implementing an analyze is that i think that we will see as a province the impotence of this particular well
Annalise
11:39
well what will you be looking for tomorrow nothing's going to change
Annalise
11:41
details that no one's going to
Carter
11:47
more rhetoric giant huge piles of rhetoric uh you know standing up for albertans without any specifics on how you're standing up for albertans continuing to describe the sovereignty act as some sort of you know dynamic piece of legislation that's never been imagined before that's going to achieve all of these great things uh and put you know alberta on a par with any other province that is able to assert its own needs without a sovereignty act um you know like i'm just i'm looking for the rhetoric because it's
Carter
12:19
it's certainly not going to be action like
Carter
12:22
like what action we've invoked the sovereignty act what do we do we move the rcmp to the borders um do we you know is there is this the war measures act there are there things that actually change in our lives nothing's going to change cabinet ministers shall be asked to act as cabinet ministers
Corey
12:39
i mean that to me is the best case scenario but it's not the only scenario here right there and you know there
Corey
12:46
there is going to be challenges if you're a private company trying to figure all of this out it's like oh for fuck's sake i'm just trying to make business decisions here i don't even know what the legal framework's going to be in 30 seconds these because none of these people will agree with each other or ever work together but i i do worry there will be be things like you
Corey
13:02
we are actively telling people that we're you know we're directing that these companies don't pay the carbon tax or some dumb stuff like that and i say dumb stuff
Corey
13:12
listen you might not think the company should be allowed to pay the should have to pay the carbon tax but it is a federal law and it's kind of passed supreme court here and like that's what makes it dumb in my opinion to take such positions it's not impossible to me such dumb positions are taken by the government but
Carter
13:31
again that's not necessarily governed by the sovereignty act i mean that's not necessarily like the remedy of the sovereignty act is we're not going to follow your damn law not we're going to break some different law right
Carter
13:43
right we're not going to produce we're not going to constrain the amount of co2 that's produced through the grid that's what they're invoking the sovereignty act well look the co2 being delivered through the grid isn't it i I mean, I that's the way I understand it. And so that CO2 that's being delivered through the grid, you're still going to pay your carbon tax on the CO2 being delivered. It's just you're going to at some point say, but we're not going to curtail this CO2 emission until such time as I don't know. I mean, could you imagine though being TransAlta and having these gas plants that are that are generating electricity? You're still going to plan. plan you're not there's no way a responsible corporate entity isn't going to plan well to maybe
Corey
14:25
maybe maybe not but you're also looking at probably a polyamory government you've got these things coming in and you're sitting there with schrodinger's gas plant you don't know if it's alive or dead and so you
Corey
14:35
you know that's it's going to be a problem for a lot of people i'm not saying that it's only a problem because of monday and whatever actions they decide to take probably by the time many people have listened to this episode but all
Corey
14:45
all of it is just kind of fatiguing like i'm just tired of it all you know i just i there is effectively i
Corey
14:53
i just want the governments to figure it out like i don't need them fighting all of the bloody time do
Annalise
14:59
do you think it like she had do you think premier smith had to use this at some point and i guess do you have any insight on like why why now and why with this and were you surprised that this is the thing that she's using it on uh
Corey
15:12
uh so actually i think like talking about the strategy for her i think this is pretty savvy for a couple of reasons can i tell you why because
Corey
15:20
because your reaction there carter was something you
Corey
15:24
do that again we gotta get the video train rolling here oh yeah
Corey
15:28
here's the thing the federal government's been piling up the l's at court lately right so it's looking as though perhaps they have overreached on some of these uh environmental initiatives and in fact they're maybe you could argue it's their drafting maybe they could say they were overbroad in specific instance instances but not every instance but clearly they've been losing at court lately you
Corey
15:49
you have the clean energy regulations which even people who are generally supportive of carbon taxes and are generally supportive of climate action have said in alberta's case seem very difficult to almost the point of impossibility to apply right now i you know i i really respect a lot of the voices there they are you know energy and electricity experts who say it i'm you know I tend to think that we underestimate our ability to change as a general axiom, but this
Corey
16:18
is something that's out there. So it's not exactly like really strong, robust policy from the federal government. So that's pretty weak ground for them to be on. And it's something where Albertans are kind of annoyed at the federal government. And it's something that you've just run a campaign on saying, tell the feds that we can't actually do this. So if you're going to do it on anything, this seems like kind of the strongest of grounds to do it on. The CER and that stuff is much stronger grounds than, say, deciding to do it on something where the province is much more mixed, like if it was just about kind of carbon
Corey
16:53
carbon pricing more generally or something like that. This is something that you can take a couple of different high grounds on as you're making out your case. And so, of course, why not? You're putting your opposition in a bit of a box, too. Like, I want you to think about this in terms of the Alberta NDP, who have come out and said they're opposed to these regulations from the federal government. Well, now they have to decide whether they're going to support any kind of sovereignty action, act action on this or not.
Corey
17:21
And if they don't, all of a sudden their message gets really muddied because it doesn't look like they're necessarily that opposed to these regulations, something that they've taken great pains to say they're opposed to. the
Annalise
17:32
the ndp angle's interesting one and i want to go down there but carter first why is cory wrong
Carter
17:42
there's so many reasons uh i mean i'm just going to start with because one does this is going to prove that you're impotent this is going to prove that you can't do anything the we are invoking the sovereignty act says daniel smith great what happens to me says the audience the the voters of alberta and the the answer is nothing nothing
Carter
18:03
nothing changes um you know if you if you look at our our generation uh at the iso basically you
Carter
18:11
know our problem is we've got 60 of our generation 55 of our generation potential is um is
Carter
18:19
is is natural gas mass well four percent of our generation is uh is um coal coal was supposed to be like it was supposed to be decades
Carter
18:31
decades or not decades but years and years and years before it was it was taken off of our grid but it happened so quickly it's so of course you're
Carter
18:43
you're talking about changed like
Corey
18:46
all you're talking about changing from one type of thermal plant
Corey
18:48
plant to another in that particular case okay oh
Corey
18:53
god and it was a much better
Carter
18:55
better thermal plant in terms of costs and and co2 but it didn't matter it didn't impact anybody and
Carter
19:02
and and so if this is going to impact people great but it's not there's nothing that's going to impact people no one's going to feel it sovereignty act is going to be useless people are still going to pay their fucking
Corey
19:12
fucking here's the thing and i didn't say this explicitly, but let me say it now. Part of why I think this is a pretty good thing for Danielle Smith to stake a fight, sovereignty act style on, is I think there's a pretty good chance she wins, if not at the courts with the federal government backing down because it's not fundamentally possible, right? And so if that happens, then it doesn't carry that impotence that Stephen Sagan... Listen, for all we know, they got wind that the federal government was was going to soften these regulations next week and they decided well we're going to do this and then when they do it it looks like a sovereignty act when
Corey
19:48
uh you know oh
Carter
19:49
oh my god i'm not i'm
Corey
19:50
i'm not i don't actually believe this was a next week thing but i think there's
Carter
19:54
there's no way they're that good but
Corey
19:55
but i think that there was probably if it was
Corey
19:57
was an awful lot of negotiation that was going to incur to change these things and because it was likely to result in a change anyhow they don't need to worry about it as much being an act of impotence Now it actually could be something where for two months she saber rattles on this. The government changes it anyways, because they were probably always going to because these regulations were not going to work without changes in Alberta. And there's there you go. There's your win if you're Danielle Smith and your Markey Sovereignty Act has a win. It's the only win it will ever get. And it gets they get to move on and say that was a success.
Annalise
20:30
What do you think the timing is on this, Corey? Like in terms of when there would be a
Annalise
20:35
a win or a loss, especially if it starts going through the courts well
Corey
20:39
well let's be clear the courts take a long time and there's probably going to be a federal election before we have any kind of definitive answer on this not definitely but probably depending on the the route this thing takes through to the supreme court of canada and it just goes away then too like you know pierre polliev if he wins says okay well we're not doing the clean energy regulations for 2035 so there you go and and you're out of that box if you're daniel smith so
Corey
21:07
so game theory this out right like that's option one right you
Corey
21:11
you just have to wait for pierre pollievre for a draw courts
Corey
21:14
courts it's gonna take long enough that you'll end up with the draw before that anyhow right if the federal government changes their mind before then it's a win if
Corey
21:24
if if somehow there's an early court victory it's a win and you know in some ways you can imagine a scenario where daniel
Corey
21:32
daniel smith wins at the first courts here in alberta and doesn't matter if it ever gets to the supreme court because pierre polliev's prime minister before then and it's a win and so the timeline could be weeks it could be as soon as the federal government negotiates and you declare victory or it could be years but either way i think at worst she's probably set herself up for a draw unless the liberal government is returned which which looks exceedingly unlikely at this point.
Annalise
22:00
Carter, Corey's making like a compelling case for the strategy behind making this move. Do you still disagree with him?
Carter
22:09
Yes, because it's not that compelling of a case. I mean, basically, he's saying that a new government could do away with this legislation and therefore Daniel Smith could win. Yeah, a new government could do away with this legislation. That's not Daniel Smith's win. That's Pierre Polyev's win. in pierre paulievs would be the one who would be doing that not daniel smith so this you know this the problem with bringing in the the the act the problem that you can't he he's trying to get away from the first movement problem and that first movement problem is that as soon as you bring in the act people are going to expect something to change and it's not going to change nothing changes in this scenario uh until such time as there's a new government and then you know what there's a new government and something changes i mean if the courts rule i mean what are the courts ruling on right
Carter
22:55
right the courts we
Carter
22:57
we don't know what's happening no one's taking the regulation of the courts i mean this
Carter
23:01
this is this is this is a temper tantrum masquerading as a law that is uh being invoked by a uh a provincial government that may you know may or may not have any leg to stand on um and and we won't find out until someone actually tries
Annalise
23:20
tries to pursue it kind of big thread here is in core you touched on the opposition strategy if if you're the ndp in alberta what
Annalise
23:28
what does your statement look like when uh when details of this come out well
Corey
23:33
well when there is that vote in the legislature for the sovereignty act there's going to be strong pressure well the government's going to say why didn't you vote for this that's
Corey
23:42
that's an interesting box to be in right if you're the the alberta ndp i think it's not that hard i think you vote against it and you say it's effectively what carter said like this is government by temper tantrum if they want to do a court case do a court case we have rule of law we don't need the sovereignty act uh piled
Corey
23:58
piled on top of that we just need a government to act competently in this area do i believe the clean energy regulations are um are practical absolutely not do i think that they've overreached into provincial jurisdiction strong reason to believe that we'll have to let the courts settle it but it's the courts that settle it it's not a vote of the legislature that determines whether alberta has jurisdiction here so let's get you know let's get serious about this let's get our boots on and let's get walking and we're just wasting time and playing into the the nonsense game uh anytime we are sitting here talking about the sovereignty act i don't know i mean like that's a starting that's a first draft but i think that's where you begin let's
Annalise
24:37
let's get our boots on and let's get walking strong language question there cory carter um
Carter
24:44
i've changed my whole i've
Carter
24:47
changed everything what should
Carter
24:52
ndp response should be to vote against the sovereignty act being brought in if they even you know i mean i guess that there is a a vote to be had and the the reason why they're voting against it is because this is a pretend solution to a real problem uh and and i'd use language like that this is a pretend solution to a real problem and the real solution is to get yeah
Carter
25:14
yeah you gotta get your boots on you gotta get walking to Ottawa and to
Carter
25:21
I think we're gonna agree that my messaging was stronger I'm
Annalise
25:24
I'm gonna agree with you Carter but
Carter
25:26
you know I mean there's no question there's
Carter
25:28
there's no question I built on it I
Carter
25:29
I built on your stuff there I built on it but I
Carter
25:33
I just think you kind of cleaned mine up for me what I'm
Carter
25:35
I'm trying to say yeah
Annalise
25:35
yeah his was just a first draft yeah
Annalise
25:38
okay anything else on uh on the sovereignty acts that you that you want to get off your chest before we move on to our next topic
Corey
25:45
it could be anything tomorrow it could be anything tomorrow that's what i want to say like we
Corey
25:49
we are we are trying to speculating well we're speculating on a group that has kind of defied speculation for the last bit right so we'll see what they decide to be tomorrow do they decide to be
Corey
26:03
are they going to be stupid they're
Carter
26:04
they're going to decide
Corey
26:05
or this is illegal or is it going to be a third option that we haven't contemplated in this you know last 20 minutes who can say
Annalise
26:17
we i can say it's going to be stupid uh guys let's move on to our next topic our next topic the year and interview it's
Annalise
26:24
it's that time of year i want to pick your brains about this it's
Annalise
26:28
it's we're what a month away just under a month away from christmas and i don't know if you guys know in newsrooms that means people are starting to book and think about year-end interview with politicians so they
Annalise
26:40
they can be uh local politicians uh
Annalise
26:43
uh provincial federal um
Annalise
26:45
um happening all over in cities across this country and i've been on that side of being that journalist who's booking the year-end interview asking
Annalise
26:53
asking the questions having content over the christmas break you guys have been on the other side of it um in terms of telling people what they should or should not say during your year-end interviews and so i thought this would be a fun topic pick your brains about year-end interviews carter you're smiling we
Corey
27:14
did this like two years ago and i can't remember what my position was then so let's hope it's somewhat consistent between
Corey
27:19
between this it won't be yeah oh
Carter
27:22
oh it won't be it won't be it's hoping for
Annalise
27:24
for too much why do you hate
Carter
27:29
because first of all there's no real story that comes out of them instead it's like this you're here are the 15 highs and here are the 15 lows what would you change if you could it's all based on you know hypothetical questions and hypothetical situations and you're unable to kind of you know put context on certain things so instead of answering questions what you're going to try and do is is bounce to your core messaging so that you can uh just you know kind of put your core messaging out instead of anything that really matters and the journalist you know it's always some it's always a non-specialist journalist too very rarely do you get the you know the reporter from the calgary herald that's reported it for the whole year instead you get the city editor or you know the the anchor sits down from ctv tv who's only read about the stories and doesn't really understand them and the the other reporters kind of like uh the real reporters like oh i can't believe she
Corey
28:26
she asked that question
Carter
28:26
question that way oh my god that's tragic um you know so you're not even getting the right the
Carter
28:32
the right tone and tenor on the on the stories so what is it that we're hoping to get as a positive message or as a message uh coming out i mean no one's ever won an election because they did a a fantastic year-ender uh with the um you know with the the stand-in uh
Carter
28:53
uh you know host or anchor for the for the news program it's just cory
Carter
28:58
cory i just hate it it's just a really um i
Corey
29:01
i hate it as a consumer of news as as you know like somebody who's worked in government communications i didn't mind them very much and in part that's because of the reasons i hate it as a consumer of news like in my view like a year-end interview is usually the absolute surrender of the news channel to political interests as the news channel desperately tries to have news at a time there's no news to be had and so everything carter said is is kind of true right like you have like just these vague list questions you have uh you know softballs thrown everywhere but as a politician what's not to love about that like what's what's not to love about that because
Carter
29:40
because sometimes it's not us because sometimes there's not a softball because sometimes you're gearing up for the softball and finally someone hits one right down the middle and you're and you're how you're trying to answer it and as a staffer i'm sitting there going oh we didn't
Carter
29:54
didn't prep him or her and now
Corey
29:57
now they're gonna do your
Annalise
29:59
your job usually and having been on the other side of it it's like reflective right like what are the highs of this year what do you wish you could have done differently yeah
Annalise
30:07
yeah and and that that sort of thing like is there is there a need i mean i get why journalists do it you need to fill content i get my politicians
Annalise
30:17
but like is is there do we need more politicians trying to be reflective in soundbites i
Corey
30:23
i mean we do need politicians being more reflective i don't think that's actually what occurs in one of these year-end interviews
Corey
30:32
yeah they're writing their own hagiographies here they're like they're trying to make sure that they've got like just the most beautiful telling of even the hard things they had to do this year like oh god and i know people were unhappy when i took my baby murdering position but you know when you think about it in the context of all those babies we had just too many babies really i had to make the tough call and you know many
Carter
30:56
to increase taxes i'm
Corey
30:57
i'm not a politician who's afraid to make the tough calls you know like it's just like this is the nature of these things what
Annalise
31:03
what about the carter you mentioned like there's never any news in them should there be like would you ever advise a politician like you know go go into this year and break some interview no
Carter
31:17
no but well unless you're taking out the trash but even then you don't want to do you're not taking out the trash directly to someone so i mean this is a time when literally no one is paying attention right everybody else has got everything going on so you're doing these year-end interviews as though they're going to make a real difference no one's listening to the year-ender um there's no potential for a real story because the journalist doesn't really want a real story i mean only if they happen onto it i think they would actually have a story that develops uh for the most part it's just time
Carter
31:50
time and messaging and and you know it's just not to
Carter
31:55
to cory's earlier point it's
Corey
31:56
it's not it's like a low nutrition content for sure here in terms of like making news like good news on december 27th fuck
Corey
32:04
fuck are you bad at your job if that's your plan and in terms of taking out the trash the premier isn't the garbage man like the trash comes out through you know nondescript news releases or at most like a cabinet minister and certainly not a cabinet minister live with somebody who might react to it in some way shape or form so no i mean these things are what they are i i think we should all acknowledge that they are they are not designed to illuminate they are ultimately you
Corey
32:34
you know normally politicians have to pay for that kind of placement but they don't have to pay over the christmas break because everybody is so desperate to fill those newspaper inches so desperate to fill that tv time yeah
Annalise
32:45
yeah they need stories they need content carter do you have like have you had any memorable vulnerable like really hey
Annalise
32:52
hey you guys screwed up that easy softball year-end interview like is is there a reason why you hope so much i
Carter
33:02
wasn't it wasn't it uh wasn't it a christmas time just before christmas when the you
Corey
33:07
you would remember better than us yeah tell us
Carter
33:11
oh yeah i've got the here let me pull off my shirt and show you the scarring um you know like that type of thing can happen now i i don't remember if we had to reschedule year-enders i don't think so i think we're all through all the year-enders everybody done all that work already um but you know like you
Carter
33:30
you don't want real news to jump onto these things you want to you know
Carter
33:35
the what did you do wrong question should be the hardest question that you face the whole time and it's like well you know looking back i should have you know oh like listen that's
Corey
33:45
that's actually the the easiest question because it's it's a way that you can then you you can turn that into a humble brag in a more natural way than what did you do like in a job interview
Carter
33:55
are the hard questions then cory that time i i increased taxes only 7.8 percent if you're
Corey
34:00
you're a professional politician no open-ended question should be hard that's this full stop here right like if somebody's willing to let you say anything that that is
Corey
34:10
is a soft one over the plate you should be able to knock that out of the park 10 times out of 10 if
Corey
34:15
if you're a professional politician so the hard questions are the pointed ones the specific ones the ones that get right between like your ribs with a stiletto you know with very specific facts so if you're like hey uh just imagine i'm gonna make one up here it's like so
Corey
34:29
so uh danielle smith um you you brought in the sovereignty act and this was um you know this was after uh regent sani had said in the leadership contest like this was disqualifying right have you talked to rajan about that like what what has been the exchange like between you and her on this particular matter that's us that's that sucks as a question because it's either she
Corey
34:53
oh you know you just effectively say she admitted she was wrong but you've created a problem now for your minister somewhere else right
Carter
35:01
you know what though it was a great conversation i was able to have it with her because we have an open and transparent government and this is you know this is based we have a respectful government that where sometimes we disagree but at the end she's in my government because she agrees with the positions that i've taken not because she's a limp noodle no not because she's a limp now but
Corey
35:21
but yeah but you know the more
Corey
35:23
more pointed it is the more difficult it is you've got to actually worry about the specific general questions are simple i
Corey
35:29
i mean and the problem is your renders are all general questions is
Annalise
35:34
is there an argument to be made because i think just coming coming at it from the media perspective former journalists it's one of the only times you get that one-on-one time right like that you get that sit down so is there an argument to be made that politicians should be doing that more often I
Annalise
35:51
tell me I think so
Carter
35:53
so I I love to do it I loved setting up the one-on-ones for the for for candidates uh and for uh electeds because the one-on-one first of all the journalists the journalists used to be you know really good and they're not quite as i mean annalise present company it's not a journalist um
Carter
36:10
um they're not as good because they don't have to do anything
Carter
36:13
they don't have the time they
Carter
36:15
they don't have the time to prepare they don't have the time to understand the issue you know basically if you're not explaining it on background to some of some of the journalists they don't know what the hell's going on so you set them up with a one-on-one and you now get to run circles around them because your candidate you know you're you're elected can have their messaging and you know do very very well whereas their reporter
Carter
36:42
reporter is probably going to be only as prepared as as the the first level of questions i mean it's very rare that you get to the second level of questions questions
Annalise
36:50
questions there's a time limit on it right like how how deep and how tough can you get in a 15 minute one-on-one but that 15 minute one-on-one is a lot more one-on-one time than you've gotten at all the rest of the year and
Carter
37:02
and it's gonna lead it's
Carter
37:03
it's gonna lead if i if i give you a 15 minute one-on-one it's
Annalise
37:08
especially if i don't give it
Carter
37:09
anybody else sit down
Corey
37:12
well yeah there's not a lot of frost nixon going on these days i i don't know i'm actually having having a hard time even pinning down carter your view on this at this point because at one point you're like i don't think politicians should do one-on-ones at year end now
Corey
37:25
it's like let's do them all the fucking time every
Annalise
37:28
every week i don't
Corey
37:29
don't like i don't like the risk of bad questions and then you throw out all the questions are simple like i don't know like listen
Carter
37:36
listen if you're looking for consistency we will go back to your original answer from six years
Carter
37:42
years ago when you said you also agree with me on everything
Corey
37:45
everything that's quite possible yeah someone's gonna have to run that tape yeah
Carter
37:50
hard to imagine like
Annalise
37:50
like you flip flopping kind of all over is it because it depends on the politician oh my god um
Carter
37:58
um yeah i mean you could put nenshi into any situation and he was going to crush it like any media situation and she was going to come out on top um that's less so like Like, we struggled a little bit with Redford sometimes.
Carter
38:13
Some files she was less interested in. And, you know, if you're less interested, you're going to be less knowledgeable. So it's harder. Is it a lot of prep?
Annalise
38:22
prep? Like, just to jump on that, like, how much prep is going into a 15-minute sit-down one-on-one year-ender?
Carter
38:33
Compared to a regular prep, right? So regular news conference, we're going to put you up. there are there's one issue that we're putting you up for a news conference on right today is about the budget right within the budget it may be complicated there are 15 expected questions and
Carter
38:47
and then there's maybe two or three curveballs that we don't you know that we see coming that the journalists have maybe kind of given us a heads up on or that we you know we think are going to happen and so we're able to prep the candidate for those 15 so
Carter
39:00
so you know for all those those situations relatively easily on a year ender it's just it's so big it's so long and now you got to remember all these different things and invariably i mean i was always very lucky i was surrounded by very talented people who you
Carter
39:16
you know would write things down um but you know remembering all these things for the whole year i always found it to be like
Carter
39:26
i'd forgotten about that that
Carter
39:28
that was like six minutes ago because in the in the offices you are in the moment like you you just there is no such thing as thinking you know a day in advance a week in advance or you know whatever you're
Corey
39:42
you're just mercifully the media also has a recency bias so you do end up talking more about the things that have more reason but you're right like the number of times it'd be like shit
Corey
39:51
shit that was this year oh my god that was like nine nine months ago that could have been a lifetime ago in politics in government for sure i'm curious Annalise when you were a reporter how did you go about determining the questions that you wanted to ask people yeah
Annalise
40:06
yeah that's a good question like I'm most
Annalise
40:09
most of the sit-downs it was like with like the police chief or with like with the mayor and it would just be kind of look back at the headlines from the last year and notable stories but it's so short like in a you know they're usually capped at 15-20 minutes especially if you're interviewing someone like Nenshi Carter Carter, you would know that's like three questions, right? If you're lucky. Three questions, he can go for hours.
Annalise
40:31
There's not a lot to it. And then you're expected to come up with headline front page stories that can stand during that week when there's nothing else happening. Well,
Corey
40:42
Well, and so I guess follow up here for you. Did you ever have an interview with one of the people you were interviewing for your end or did one of your colleagues where you're like, wow, that was real news. We got out of that. Like, was there ever an instance?
Annalise
40:55
did have my a year-ender pulled once from nenshi because he was mad at um what other people were doing other people not me other reporters in the paper were doing who
Annalise
41:06
who like used it as a bargaining chip which i actually thought was quite interesting um
Annalise
41:10
um at the time i was i was obviously very upset because i was like why are you punishing me the city hall reporter who works your 12 14 hour days because of what an opinion this tells you
Corey
41:21
you everything about the the year ender it's punishing you when he doesn't show up right
Annalise
41:26
right like it's not a punishment for
Annalise
41:28
to not get that coverage
Annalise
41:30
yeah and as to carter's point it's it's the that that city hall reporter or that legislative reporter who's like going to those meetings till 2 a.m they're the one paying the price for uh
Annalise
41:41
uh what other people are doing or you know they don't get the sit down the tv host is getting the sit down right yeah
Annalise
41:47
yeah it was an interesting strategy at the time um i thought i I was quite annoyed by it, but it happened. And, and, and it was punishment to the paper because we, that was like a few stories that we could have published during the quietness of the, of Christmas. Well,
Corey
42:04
Well, and yeah, it's, it's, it's all upside for the politicians, right? Like they're, they're in the driver's seat.
Annalise
42:11
Carter, why do you think, and you've, you've mentioned this, you and I've talked about this, like media has obviously changed a lot in recent years. Like why do we still do, why do we still hold on to some of these old traditions? Why do we still even do, do the sit down just because the content is needed?
Carter
42:28
I think, I think that that's just it. I mean, it's super hard to fill pages sometimes. Like there's times when you don't have enough inches and you don't have enough time on the television to, to run all the stories because there's so many stories all happening at once. And then there are times on the calendar where you couldn't, you know, you couldn't force a story to appear if you tried. Right. right and on top of that people aren't paying attention so you're not going to invest like if you've got a really interesting story that you're working on you're not going to unfold it on the 23rd of december right
Carter
42:59
right no one's paying attention that might be the lowest rated show for the year right
Carter
43:04
right so you you you you take something you gotta still fill the minutes you still gotta put you know stories in the newspaper um so you take the year ender and You take these these old ideas and you still do them because not
Carter
43:18
not because they're great journalism, but because they fill the need of the of the newspapers, of the of the journalists. And to a degree, I guess, of the actual politicians, because the politicians ultimately believe, rightly or wrongly, that their currency is being seen and being heard as much as possible, even in these times when there's a little bit of a downtime. time it's a free story to to kind of steal cory's language and totally morph it into something that actually mattered um but it
Corey
43:56
it is interesting right i mean this is this is a legacy media problem um the
Corey
44:02
news is the length that the news is going to be on television you know it's always going to be 30 minutes no matter how much or how little is going on the newspaper maybe you can make it a little longer a little shorter but like in four page increments effectively and so it's only going going to be what it's going to be as well and so but
Corey
44:19
that's not true in a lot of digital media like you don't actually need to to fill the news in the same way you've obviously got advertisers you got to satisfy eyeballs you need to get but it is kind of funny like i i would just i would love to see a newscast end one day at like the 14 minute mark and be like that's all the real news we have today uh so we'll see you next time and or you know alternatively just kind of say and we're to go another 30 minutes a lot happened today but you can do that online you can do that with podcasts you can do that with all of the digital media you can't do that with the traditional media so it's
Corey
44:53
it's an interesting question like are some of these things at some point just hanging out there because of tradition and is somebody gonna just rebalance
Corey
45:00
rebalance and reassess and say yeah it's not really worth it well
Annalise
45:03
well that's what i'm i'm curious to say especially carter's point about how much prep i mean i do a lot of media training in my job now but i haven't done media training or prep for a year ender so if it's like this is going to take hours of prep there's no real benefit yes we're getting our message across but we've done that any like at what point did the politician start saying no we're not doing year enders we're not offering them well
Corey
45:23
well here's the other thing you got to keep in mind though it's quiet around that time for politicians too and so they actually have the time to do that prep for the year enders if they so choose to do so and some politicians will want to go on vacation but some don't you know some never want to go on vacation and it actually is an opportunity for them to fill the time as well. And if there is a kind of a more material value for political staff and politicians, the year-ender, it is probably that prep. It's going back through everything in a big sense, instead of living in the moment and reminding yourself of the major narratives, the macro narratives. I'm not saying, remember event that happened February 2nd week. I'm saying, what is the story we're trying to tell? You've got a year-ender. You've always got to pull it back to that story and you just have a you have a good session where you're talking not just about that story confirming that it's still valid and useful but you're updating all of your proof points using the things of the past year to allow you to tell that story in a way that becomes more credible and so that would be the value for politicians if there is one beyond the actual kind of low
Corey
46:27
low nutrition news hit you get on december 27th well
Annalise
46:30
well you're reflecting right before you start another year and you're back at it again yeah
Annalise
46:35
i like it carter you still hate it
Carter
46:38
corey consistency is my strong it's
Carter
46:42
good it's a good thing to do i
Corey
46:43
january tradition which is um i go through and i look at the work i did for the last year and i update my kind of work portfolio i try to keep a fairly current one at all times to remind myself of the things i've done to try to build on the things i've done in the past and it's it's good to sometimes recap your work and do those things and if the year-ender becomes the excuse for you to do that great you don't actually need to do a year-ender to do that work though and uh it's important work for politicians to do i
Corey
47:11
i just don't know why news organizations um
Corey
47:14
feel like they need to subject the viewers to them as much as i mean i guess i do but i just i don't like them very much as a consumer of news i
Annalise
47:24
i like that tradition cory carter has nothing to as you're not reflecting at the end of every year there carter well
Carter
47:31
well listen i i think that you do live in the moment you live in the moment and sometimes you forget your strategies because of it and this you know if if you need external forces to bring you back to strategy which apparently cory
Carter
47:44
cory does um you
Carter
47:45
you know then then this this is a good way to kind of get get brought Drop back to strategy. Myself, I'm pretty
Carter
47:53
pretty much on strategy all the time. Yeah, I've never not been on strategy. It's a curse, really. It's pretty amazing, actually. It really is. It really is, Corey. You've worked with
Corey
48:04
with me. It is a curse.
Corey
48:05
I will say it's a curse. You know the curse
Carter
48:07
curse of working with me. Guys,
Annalise
48:08
Guys, let's move on to our lightning round. I've got a few little tidbits for you tonight.
Carter
48:16
It feels like they're going to be obscure.
Annalise
48:17
obscure. They are going to be obscure. years i
Annalise
48:19
i know it's been a while since we've chatted and things have been happening uh first one email oopsie um email from preston manning's personal email to liberal mp george chahal
Annalise
48:33
and a bunch of alberta conservative mps was made public last week so so preston manning wrapped up his covid 19 review panel wrote this report same day the report was published he sends out an email to all i think it was pretty much all of the conservative mps in
Annalise
48:47
in alberta and happened to include liberal mp george chahal as
Annalise
48:51
as well um and he basically used the email to ask the mps to like weaponize reports findings in the next election happened a couple weeks ago and then chahal
Annalise
49:02
um posted it on social media carter
Annalise
49:06
carter i don't i don't know what i don't know what my specific of a lightning round question is here what are your what are your thoughts on uh on this email oopsies well
Carter
49:16
well i mean i think that you you know preston manning can send whatever email he wants i do believe that he sent the email on the day that the report was released um he
Carter
49:26
he made but there was some sort of insinuation that he'd taken the information to the conservative caucus prior to um that email being sent or prior to the report being released and i think that that's where uh like any information if preston manning you know uh conservative whore that he is wants to give information to the other conservatives he's more than welcome to do that once it's published um but before
Carter
49:53
before it's published that information is not his to release it's not his to to share uh so my my thinking is that preston manning uh shouldn't have pushed press the the send button or or even just kind of told people what was going on uh prior to that but um
Carter
50:10
um you know if you hire preston manning to deliver a report that you you know gives you exactly what you want uh you have to expect that preston manning will uh continue to be preston manning one of the least impressive progressive politicians in canadian political history were
Annalise
50:25
were you surprised by by the email at all i mean to kind of build off what carter just i was really
Corey
50:31
really surprised i was under the impression preston manning was a non-partisan who was disinterested in federal politics so so so just well i can see how you think that right no
Corey
50:41
no i mean come on like let's yeah anybody there are two types of people two types of people who uh who had reactions to this there's the people who have have worked in politics who have said yeah well of course he did that right embarrassing for him he accidentally said it to a liberal and there's the type of people who didn't work in politics who said what an outrage but like the reality is this is this is like in
Corey
51:04
in in all of the things people should have grievances about with politics big and small this is pretty small right this is somebody saying hey i want you to use this report which none of us were under the impression was was like the report of like some, some deeply neutral party in order to stick it to the liberals. In fact, I think we should be grateful for the service that Preston Manning did by just sort of laying bare just how partisan of an exercise this was. But again, you weren't paying much attention if you were under the impression it was anything but a partisan exercise to begin with.
Annalise
51:36
What about how Chahal released it? I mean, I'm just imagining like being, you know, being that staffer that gets that email that's like, oh, wow, this is an interesting one. Do you think putting it just out on twitter or x whatever we're calling it was the right uh kind of right way to to deal with i mean
Corey
51:52
mean first i'd reply all saying thanks preston but uh yeah
Corey
51:56
yeah i mean why not like i i don't know it seems like it
Corey
52:00
it uh it did it had the intended effect right it became news people talked about it we're talking about it now after quite some time and
Corey
52:09
i can't imagine his release strategy could
Corey
52:12
could have been different and had materially better results i'm not i'm not really sure what else he could have done with it that would have gotten this kind of eyeballs in conversation it
Annalise
52:20
it got a lot of coverage carter it was
Carter
52:23
was a free it's a free it's a free hit
Carter
52:26
you know you may as well take it there's no um no real downside right like you
Carter
52:32
you know this just even on its face you know he sends it to the conservative caucus and he assumes that there is is no liberal you know you know it just he made himself look it
Carter
52:43
seems impossible but preston manning making himself look stupid um he did
Corey
52:48
did create the reform party and basically overhaul canadian politics like dramatically right yeah
Carter
52:56
yeah no he just basically destroyed uh progressive conservatism and instead instilled this uh grassroots bullshit that doesn't even resemble assemble conservatism because all it is is pandering which is all he's ever done in his whole life i'll
Carter
53:12
i'll tell you have you guys read his book have you guys read think big yeah
Carter
53:16
it's uh it's quite a piece piece of shit um i mean i i was on vacation in mexico when i read it and i just kept throwing it into the sea and it kept coming back to me uh
Corey
53:29
actually that was other people's copies that were washing up who were doing that
Carter
53:32
that oh my god it was like it was the the work. I mean, this
Carter
53:37
this guy, he's not a leader. He's, he's a idealist
Carter
53:41
idealist who, you know, uh, has been given the opportunity to speak in front of others. Okay.
Annalise
53:48
We'll leave that one there. Um, what
Annalise
53:51
what else do I have here? Oh, the globe, the globe has a story today talking about how, um, the NDP is willing to waive the deadline for a, uh, uh, Canada pharmacy act. So as you will remember, remember that was like a key piece of the supply and confidence agreement with the liberals um
Annalise
54:09
um is that they needed progress towards a universal national pharma care program by the end of 2023 it's as we said a month until year end doesn't look like that's happening and the globe had a story today saying the ndp is now willing to waive this deadline carter
Annalise
54:25
carter good idea oh bad idea i
Carter
54:29
mean thank god they're willing to waive it cory i mean
Carter
54:32
weren't willing to waive this i mean this could bring down a government this could bring down a government first of all talk about showing your you know another act of impotence holy shit jagmeet singh man like how do you have kids that's the real question oh my god like there's there is no way that this is um that this matters like hold like show some backbone set a deadline that matters say that it actually matters you know hold yourself accountable not not just the rest of the government my god could they be any weaker like it's a legitimate question at this stage i don't think we could see a weaker federal uh new democratic party uh than we're seeing right now under the leadership of jug meat say unless it was led by preston manning yeah
Corey
55:23
yeah i mean preston manning the original nepo baby right uh exactly
Corey
55:27
don't listen i think um i
Corey
55:30
think it's such a stark contrast to the rhetoric of the ndp convention last month that it just it deserves to be called out right at one point if anything they were talking about tightening the screws on the liberal government you know we're
Carter
55:42
we're gonna really hold
Carter
55:43
them to account this
Corey
55:45
and then and then essentially to to waive this most signature component of it i think is um well
Corey
55:52
well it's something talk
Carter
55:53
talk about it on your last episode with us
Corey
55:55
us yeah it's been a
Corey
56:00
yeah and so of course it deserves sort of be called out but let's be really clear and it's not that they seem weak it's that they are weak the liberals are weak too they are collectively a very weak group of parties right now an election would decimate them both you would end up with a conservative super majority and that would be that so of course they're going to waive the deadline it's better than blowing the deadline and then having people saying so though, is supplying confidence over and creating that unnecessary and unwelcome pressure at this particular moment. They're going to try to figure it out, and they're going to try to work together until the polls rebound for one of them to a point of advantage, or we hit that deadline in 2025. Oh, wow.
Carter
56:39
Yeah, we could be waiting for
Corey
56:40
for some time. Yeah, well, I think we're just going to... I actually think this deal might just sort of run out at this point. It might go the entire length of it because, boy, neither of those parties is looking particularly strong, especially in the face of Pierre Polyev's numbers.
Annalise
56:54
Okay, let's leave that one there. Same sort of topic. Trudeau has a new executive communications director. I don't know if you guys saw last week, Hill Times had a big feature and other media followed.
Annalise
57:05
And the guy he's hired to lead his communications.
Annalise
57:09
One thing the media kind of really focused on is that he understands millennials and Gen Z and this is what he's going to bring. that's a bad sign
Corey
57:17
probably he's probably actually very good based on everything i've sort of seen and gleaned
Annalise
57:23
gleaned here his resume looks good but it is like i in the in the pieces i saw about it they're like millennials gen z that's our guy is this what is this what trudeau needs uh
Corey
57:34
uh okay well let's first of all let's be clear millennials are like people in their 40s now so it's not as though we're talking about children you know there's there is a reason to believe that the liberals can can find millennials as part of a winning coalition here but i think where carter is going to say and what i'm going to say is like generally speaking if your strategy is like oh we're going to turn the ship around by getting the youth to vote well my god the
Corey
58:00
you're in a you're in a fair bit of trouble um and when we look at how the liberals won particularly in 2015 they had very broad support one of the interesting things about the liberal victory in 2015 was there wasn't really like big
Corey
58:15
big age discrepancies for them they kind of won with all age groups which was you know for certainly not a given and um and
Corey
58:22
and so now to kind of say well we're just going to try with a smaller group or we're going to focus up on this group i think that's a that's a save the furniture strategy that's not a win government strategy at least in the current iteration of the of the liberal coalition more
Corey
58:36
more interesting to me is simply that that they they found what seems to be a fairly credible candidate to take the job right like it
Corey
58:43
it does suggest you and
Carter
58:45
and i said no i mean
Carter
58:50
like there wasn't anybody like
Corey
58:51
like you have to imagine i mean you never know like maybe there's a crazy story and a crazy scenario and he just wants to have the job for six months or something but you have to imagine if you are a serious person and you're thinking about a job like that the first only
Corey
59:05
only thing you're going to to ask the prime minister is are you going to be here in six months like are we running this one out and so it is one of the stronger pieces of evidence we've had in the last bit that justin trudeau intends to stick around but
Corey
59:16
i use the word intend intentionally it's
Corey
59:20
it's not necessarily going to be entirely his choice when the time comes to take that walk in the snow
Annalise
59:26
carter what do you think of this new hire i
Carter
59:30
i think that having someone who says i can talk to the millennials totally misses the point of elections in canada um yes you do need someone who can speak to each age group um but you need to also be able to carry a larger coalition and the problem that the liberals are having is that the conservatives have the largest coalition and it's not just millennials that are moving it's all kinds of different sub you know groups and And if you're going to win government, it tends to, like, people,
Carter
1:00:01
people, each generation, as they kind of reach certain milestones, starts behaving a lot more like the generation before them. And, you know, the liberals are screwed not just with millennials. They're screwed with, you know, immigrant populations. You know, I've been dealing with or working with a couple of different groups. and and holy
Carter
1:00:22
people who used to be all in with the liberals are like
Carter
1:00:27
they they don't want to be in the same room with them they they like everything is changing so dramatically this isn't a communications problem this is this is so much deeper than communications problem but i heard this really smart guy say one time and i hope i don't bastardize this quote but almost all problems manifest themselves as communications problems well done and
Carter
1:00:49
and this is one of those situations where a leadership problem is manifesting itself as a communications problem couldn't
Corey
1:00:57
couldn't say it better myself
Carter
1:01:03
sounds like he's actually been arrested recently that
Annalise
1:01:10
is last lightning round question this one's for for you cory is there going to be any uh black friday cyber monday holiday deals in the uh in the strategist at the strategist merch
Corey
1:01:21
merch account yeah we
Annalise
1:01:22
we were talking about making uh
Corey
1:01:23
uh che flags 75 off one day only at
Annalise
1:01:30
you'll go from selling zero to more than that well
Corey
1:01:35
it's gonna be a great deal maybe it depends there's
Carter
1:01:38
there's been some back and forth on it because
Carter
1:01:41
we have to subsidize if we do a 75 discount we do
Corey
1:01:44
do basically we do lose 15 every flag we sell at that point you're taking
Carter
1:01:48
taking 15 out of cory hogan's pants so i'm for it actually so i actually said yes zane was like but how will cory afford it and i'm like that's not a problem that's not what the issue is okay
Annalise
1:02:01
okay check check the strategist merch store tomorrow is what i'm hearing for
Annalise
1:02:06
uh Guys, let's leave it there. That is a wrap on episode 1270 of The Strategist. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil. With you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.