Transcript
Carter
0:00
So I think we just do 12 minutes, right? We give them 12 minutes of content, and then we say, Patreon show. Boom. Problem solved.
Carter
0:10
Right? Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. We don't say we're going to give you, like,
Carter
0:14
like, four hour-long Patreons for your money, for six bucks. We say we're going to give you some. We didn't even say four. We said some extra. Yeah,
Corey
0:21
Yeah, we did. We said some, and we said buyer beware. But you know what? We can also do here. What?
Corey
0:27
can, no matter how long we go, make
Corey
0:30
make the episode 64 minutes and 32 seconds in length.
Carter
0:35
We could. Or, or, or, or
Carter
0:39
we go for an hour. We record for an hour and we release four Patreon episodes.
Corey
0:44
So I hit record about three hours ago at this point here. So we'll see how much of the intro gets in and we'll see how much of you ranting about Annalise and Zane gets in. Do
Carter
0:54
Do you want to tell
Carter
0:54
tell them that we don't have a host?
Corey
0:57
I think they figure that out by now, because I'm going to put some of
Corey
1:00
of your incoherent rambling in. We
Carter
1:02
Here's what I'm thinking. Here's what I'm thinking. Wait.
Corey
1:06
Welcome to episode 1263.
Corey
1:09
We're contractually obliged to say that, if it's episode 1263.
Carter
1:12
thought we were going to...
Carter
1:13
Do we have to do the... Hang
Carter
1:16
The music's coming in, right?
Corey
1:23
No, the person with
Corey
1:24
with me as always. Yeah, there you go. Corey Hogan.
Corey
1:28
That's what you do. Hey,
Corey
1:29
Hey, buddy. It's great to see you.
Carter
1:30
What happened to our hosts today?
Corey
1:32
Oh, hey, you know what's really fun? I was actually on the Ryan Jesperson show with both of them this morning. So Ryan
Carter
1:39
Ryan Jesperson, who is a fucking host. Who
Corey
1:41
Who is a host. Can
Corey
1:43
hosts. Invites two more hosts and then invites me. So it was me and three hosts. let me
Carter
1:48
me tell you this i can't even call annalise she doesn't answer the phone she doesn't respond to texts nothing and you got to spend an hour with her gotta
Corey
1:57
gotta ask you a question here does it go straight to voicemail because maybe her phone's off or does it do one ring and then voicemail which is the one more one
Carter
2:04
one ring and voicemail yeah
Corey
2:06
yeah that means i sent you to voicemail i
Carter
2:08
i don't even get i don't even get i'll call you later that stupid ass thing yeah
Carter
2:12
and zane today i was talking talking with zane and i was going to make another point and he said hold on carter let me call you from the car never
Carter
2:19
never called me back i
Corey
2:20
i mean to be honest with you millennial
Corey
2:24
i'm just gonna say it like
Carter
2:25
like you call me like if you say i'm gonna call you from the car i
Corey
2:29
from the car you
Carter
2:29
you call me from the car
Corey
2:30
car that's gen x behavior right there are you actually gen x i don't know you know these these are kind of hazy things i'm right on the bubble there yeah
Carter
2:37
yeah i'm i'm i think i'm right in the middle of gen x i'm
Corey
2:40
i'm i'm spiritually gen x yeah although now that i hear that you you consider yourself not part of the silent generation which had been my guess um i
Corey
2:49
might be a millennial you
Carter
2:50
you didn't even have me as a boomer you
Corey
2:52
you wish you were a boomer you have boomer energy my parents are actually away from you silent
Carter
2:56
silent generation but they
Carter
2:58
talk a lot and my dad's oh so much volume so
Corey
3:03
i know your parents i know your parents the listeners they don't we're talking to the listeners well if they came
Carter
3:08
came to the live shows they'd meet them
Carter
3:10
right that's true um
Carter
3:12
which reminds me we were supposed to have a live show next week
Corey
3:14
week you know your parents are some of zane's biggest fans i
Carter
3:18
and i don't understand i'm like he's
Carter
3:21
he's such a pain in the ass and they always step up to his uh you
Carter
3:25
you know they defend
Corey
3:25
defend him they're kind of used to defending kind of like incompetent people though right i mean i guess they have some they
Corey
3:32
got a lot of
Carter
3:32
they got a lot of history do
Carter
3:34
do you remember when my dad had us come come to the gyro club and that's
Corey
3:38
legendary you know what get up to ten dollars go listen to episode whatever yeah
Carter
3:44
your ten dollar fee and it's it's there we talk about the gyro event yeah
Corey
3:50
it's a little back honest
Carter
3:51
god that is our best live event ever yeah
Corey
3:57
you know we can say whatever we want about it now because a hundred percent chance everyone in that room except
Corey
4:01
except my parents except your parents are dead yeah
Corey
4:04
the average age there was It was easily 132. Do
Carter
4:08
Do you remember the guy who was the most staunch Donald Trump defender?
Corey
4:12
Well, this was like pre-Donald Trump's election too. I
Carter
4:14
I know. And they were all defending Donald Trump. Donald Trump's the guy. The guy, that guy's still alive.
Corey
4:20
Donald Trump's still alive. He's made a deal with the devil of
Carter
4:22
Speaking of deals with the devil, you know what I did this week?
Corey
4:25
What'd you do, buddy? I
Carter
4:26
I spoke at the Public
Carter
4:30
Public Affairs Association of Canada. I spoke at their conference. It's
Corey
4:33
It's exciting. It was great.
Carter
4:34
great. yeah i was with doug i was with doug schweitzer you
Corey
4:37
you and doug on a panel together yeah
Carter
4:38
yeah it's pretty great we
Corey
4:39
we wore the exact
Carter
4:40
exact same outfit like
Carter
4:43
i had to take my sweater off so the people could tell us apart the
Corey
4:48
fact that he's three feet taller than you yeah
Carter
4:52
a perfect head of hair yeah
Corey
4:53
yeah he has hair and height yeah
Corey
4:55
he's what we call the reverse carter yeah
Carter
4:57
yeah he really was because i I was so smart, and he was there. Anyway.
Corey
5:03
Doug is just catching strays. Doug's catching strays. I
Carter
5:06
I crushed him like a small bug. He didn't even know
Corey
5:08
happened. Were you arguing? Was this like a debate? No,
Carter
5:10
No, I asked him questions like, how's the war room doing? Oh,
Corey
5:15
Oh, that's good. Is he still a director of the war room?
Carter
5:18
That's what I was asking. He did not answer the question.
Carter
5:21
He didn't seem very proud of his time with that government, to be honest. If he's listening, maybe he'll write in and clarify.
Carter
5:30
also met i i saw i saw danielle smith i saw her speech i
Carter
5:35
i hear she gave
Corey
5:35
gave you a big hug i
Carter
5:36
i was sitting in the corner i was sitting in the corner minding my own business behind a computer and she came and gave me a big hug and you know what so
Corey
5:42
so confirm not a listener of the podcast you
Corey
5:45
you know what pisses me
Carter
5:45
me off though i
Carter
5:47
i really enjoyed the hug and i enjoyed her i enjoyed her she was speaking crazy nonsense and i was like i think i could get behind this and she was like she's so good Good. It is so frustrating because everything that comes out of her mouth is bullshit.
Corey
6:02
Well, listen, we've made this point before, but we should underline it. We both know Danielle. We both like Danielle, like as a person. Oh, yeah. Like a lot. She's a super nice person. And this caricature of Danielle Smith that I think a lot of people have in their mind just does not hold up to, I
Corey
6:20
I don't even want to say the real world, like actual exposure to her. And I think this was one of the problems during the election, right? People thought during the debate, Rachel Notley would come out and wipe the floor with this lightweight. Well, Danielle Smith's a lot of things, but she's not a lightweight. She's a very savvy communicator.
Corey
6:38
And yeah, this was part of the expectation game problem that the NDP had.
Carter
6:42
It was fascinating because Rachel Notley spoke on the second day. Danielle spoke on the first day. Danielle was in person. So we have to give her a little bit of, Rachel couldn't get down with the snow. Yeah.
Carter
6:56
Danielle's speech was just very well tailored to the audience. And Rachel's speech could have just been one of my rants about the Alberta pension plan and how dumb that idea is. And I literally was getting texts from people who are watching saying, who does she think the audience is? Why is she giving this speech to this audience? And I think that that's, you know, like it's, it's a good reminder to leaders, leaders, when they like really can lead well, they connect and they focus on the audience first, not their message first. And I,
Carter
7:32
I, I agreed 100% with Rachel's message. It just was being delivered to the completely wrong audience. Well,
Corey
7:38
Well, so tell me a bit about this event, which I obviously didn't go to, but it suggests by the name that it involves people from not just Alberta, although I'm sure Alberta was overrepresented. Across the country.
Carter
7:47
Half the people were from outside the province. Yeah.
Carter
7:50
So that's an interesting
Corey
7:51
interesting speech to give.
Carter
7:53
One, all of them have to suck up to government for a living.
Carter
7:56
This is the public affairs professionals, which back in the day would just be called lobbyists. And these people, you know, they have their own professional codes and standards. It's not fair to call them lobbyists and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, they have a role and the government, like Danielle
Carter
8:15
Danielle got their role, got their messaging, understood exactly where they're trying to position themselves. We're giving them hints on what she looks for, saying that she's often influenced by them. It was a masterclass in winning over your audience. And Rachel came in with a message. And it was not audience-specific, and because it wasn't audience-specific or audience-focused, it wasn't nearly as effective. perspective well
Corey
8:39
well that's interesting because we do often talk about uh
Corey
8:42
uh message discipline but we also often talk about needing to tailor towards your audience here and it sounds like uh not
Corey
8:49
not so much a hit for the ndp i thought it was a good speech but
Corey
8:53
it's not to that wrong audience
Carter
8:55
yeah and i thought
Corey
8:56
it's tough rachel's stuff rachel
Carter
8:57
rachel looked very relaxed she was in a very difficult spot couldn't see the audience was just standing at a podium but she delivered it very very well it just wasn't delivered for the audience wait
Corey
9:06
wait a minute so she like recorded herself at a lectern no
Carter
9:09
no it was a live it was i don't know if you're aware of this now but in the internet you can like broadcast yourself live i
Corey
9:16
i get that but like she was standing to give at a lectern why
Carter
9:22
i don't i'm not in charge of discerning these things i didn't ask
Corey
9:28
was i supposed to ask you should have asked should who am
Carter
9:30
am i supposed to hear let's text whether was there
Corey
9:32
there a question part
Carter
9:33
that's text jeremy right text
Corey
9:34
text right now see if we can get an answer back by the end why
Carter
9:37
why was hang on i'm gonna do okay
Corey
9:38
okay you do this hang
Carter
9:39
hang on you talk
Corey
9:40
talk i'm gonna get my phone out because i'll text jeremy too and we'll see if he replies to either he won't reply to either of us so why
Carter
9:48
was rachel okay jeremy
Corey
9:52
how do you spell jeremy okay
Corey
9:54
okay why was rachel at
Corey
9:58
i'm gonna say podium because Because you said lectern. I said
Carter
10:00
said lectern, which is the proper thing.
Corey
10:01
thing. Because lectern's proper. And I'm going to say podium. And we're going to see if he thinks that our messages got switched.
Carter
10:07
He will. He won't know who to respond to, which is going
Corey
10:09
going to up my chances. Nice. Gave her speech to the, what was this?
Carter
10:13
This is the PAAC event.
Carter
10:18
Yeah. You got an acronym. Have you hit send? I don't know what it is.
Corey
10:21
is. Have you hit send? Oh,
Corey
10:22
Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. I got to hit send now. I'm
Corey
10:27
Okay. It's 825. What do
Carter
10:29
do we even need a host for?
Carter
10:34
It's a good question.
Carter
10:37
know, they don't add
Corey
10:37
add much, in my opinion. This is just as good. No,
Carter
10:40
No, fuck the host. Yeah,
Corey
10:40
Yeah, it's just as good. Let's
Carter
10:41
Let's throw up a question on the Discord. Do we even need a host? Who's
Corey
10:45
Who's going to put that question up, Stephen?
Carter
10:48
You know what? If we had a host, maybe the host would put it up.
Corey
10:52
Maybe. Maybe. We'll have to check this out. So, okay. Conference takeaways. Those are okay. you didn't have anything more earth shattering to tell us here were
Corey
11:01
there any other nbp conference yeah okay shattering
Corey
11:04
shattering i don't know were there other were there leadership contenders sniffing around in the ndp were there oh
Carter
11:09
oh no there were there so there were none well
Corey
11:13
we already talked about the audience being 50 albertan not yeah
Carter
11:17
yeah but even then like the people who were in the room a lot
Corey
11:20
lot of them had political experience
Carter
11:21
experience right like there were a lot of organizers um I know that Racky wound up down here, second up to win this week. So I'm assuming that she's getting ready. And, you know, there's rumors of, there's rumors a lot of people. Should we out them all? Should we soft
Corey
11:39
soft launch the campaign? Well, on Jesper Sinn, I did talk about the, like, five different campaigns that were sort of rumored to exist floating in the wings. We should say, like, Rachel Notley is still in the job, right? But there's a lot of suspicion that maybe. She's not in the job.
Corey
11:51
she'll hang up her hat at a certain point she's
Carter
11:54
she's leaving the job i mean like we can all play games that she's not going you know i wonder she's okay
Corey
12:00
okay but let me put it this way if she said i'm not leaving the job she would still have the job like people wouldn't people
Corey
12:05
people would oust her no
Carter
12:07
no but she's leaving the job yeah
Corey
12:09
yeah i think that's everybody's assumption no
Carter
12:12
no it's not an assumption she's leaving the job yeah
Corey
12:19
can't argue with you but like could
Carter
12:22
could you imagine how bitter she would be if she stuck for another you know four years the amount of stupid that that woman has seen she would there she would flail people like she flay flay not flail she would flay them just for sport jeremy
Carter
12:38
jeremy no lay would come back with no skin on his body
Corey
12:42
i i just i don't i don't want to follow the
Corey
12:45
the okay so here's on jesperson on jesperson oh
Carter
12:52
that i wasn't invited yeah
Corey
12:53
yeah well you were invited you just uh there was you know you weren't there i can't really explain your behavior um
Carter
13:01
everyone's mad at you yeah everyone's
Corey
13:02
everyone's mad at you i didn't
Carter
13:04
didn't want to take my star and give it to that little
Corey
13:13
what uh yeah so that i like five oh who
Carter
13:17
who did you talk about which who did you out who do who did you soft launch who
Corey
13:21
who did i soft launch there yeah uh i talked about uh you know campaigns that i've heard rumors might exist being um
Corey
13:29
um sarah hoffman you already talked about racky uh kathleen Lynn Ganley, David
Corey
13:34
David Shepard, and I also talked about Gil McGowan as a potential. You know who's ringing there? Hang on.
Carter
13:41
That's Nolay's. Hang on. Hang on.
Carter
13:45
Jeremy, you're on the podcast.
Carter
13:50
the podcast. Speak up. Speak
Carter
13:53
Speak into the microphone.
Carter
13:59
Okay, Jeremy, we texted you for a reason. We're live. Oops. Oops, I hung up on him.
Corey
14:04
Okay, well, he called me too first. By the way, he called me first. Is
Carter
14:08
Is that because you had your ringer off that you didn't answer it?
Corey
14:11
No, I held up the phone to the screen and I showed it. That's why I was holding on my phone a second ago. It
Carter
14:15
It was to show you that Jeremy called. I didn't care. Anyways, I was in the middle of my story.
Carter
14:18
So he's not going
Corey
14:18
call back now that he knows we're recording. Yeah.
Carter
14:21
Yeah, I guess not.
Carter
14:24
So, yeah, Sarah Hoffman.
Corey
14:32
David Shepard. Kathleen Ganley.
Corey
14:35
So you didn't come up with anybody new. And Gil McGowan.
Carter
14:40
Oh, yeah, Gil. Yeah.
Corey
14:42
For those who don't know, the head
Corey
14:44
head of the AFL, which
Corey
14:47
which is, of course, the Australian Football League.
Carter
14:51
It is, in fact, the Australian Football League, which I excel
Corey
14:54
excel at. Also the Alberta Federation of Paper, though.
Carter
14:56
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of acronyms.
Corey
14:57
acronyms. That acronym's used a lot. yeah
Carter
15:00
yeah well the tlas are often used uh okay
Carter
15:04
okay so you you put out these names but
Carter
15:07
but did you put out anybody new was there any new no
Carter
15:11
no new mlas anybody who hadn't zane zane
Corey
15:13
zane started saying crazy things like he always says you know uh nenshi ivison jesperson was his uh was his trilogy hold on
Carter
15:24
on Hang on here. Nenshi, Mr.
Carter
15:32
I'm not even going to say the thing about Iverson, but you all know what it is.
Corey
15:39
Yeah. Well, I think that the third one was sucking up a bit. I don't
Corey
15:44
don't know that they were serious, any of them, but Mr. Teamwork himself. That's good. mr
Carter
15:50
mr teamwork himself you know what i
Carter
15:53
haven't been told why i'm wrong for quite some time so it would actually be nice for to have nenshi in the in the game that would be pretty good yeah
Corey
16:00
yeah i think you get told you're wrong a lot actually buddy you've got like a pretty popular podcast lots of people hear you'd be wrong a lot it
Carter
16:08
never stings as much as when he says let me tell you why you're wrong that's uh that stings for a while special gift it never really goes away yeah
Corey
16:16
yeah so um those were were the names that were sort of discussed there the reality is probably the
Carter
16:23
the samirs and the uh i'm going to try and think of new people um okay so this is a
Corey
16:29
a great point like even you struggling a little bit yeah
Corey
16:33
i i have no doubt there's a lot of new people in the ndp caucus who think maybe i could do this right maybe i could be part of a thing that
Corey
16:41
that uh allows us to To really grow. Like once the province introduces themselves to me, this party can go all of the way, right?
Corey
16:52
Yeah. I think that there's a lot of people who probably think some version of that along the
Carter
16:56
the way. Yeah, I do, but... Besides you and me.
Corey
17:00
I mean, we could take this to the big time. We've even got
Carter
17:03
got a podcast. Yeah,
Corey
17:04
Yeah, man. People don't
Carter
17:05
don't even understand how great that is. Our
Corey
17:06
Our last premiere, or our premiere right now, you actually got the job?
Carter
17:10
Podcast. Podcasting. Oh, my God. That is an excellent point.
Corey
17:15
Yeah, no. So here's the reality, though. This is, at this point, actually a somewhat established party. And this somewhat established party is going to do somewhat established party things. And one of them is elect kind of a known entity in some way, shape, or form. This is going to have to be a known individual. So, you know, Zane's list of names wasn't outrageous in the sense that these are actually people with some public persona, public profile. file if you are part of the freshman class of the ndp and you have aspirations for leadership
Corey
17:45
this is kind of your dress rehearsal this is kind of your job interview this first session here the session where rachel not still leaders so i'm really curious to see how how they try to stand out how they try to separate from the pack and what kind of impact that will have this shadow leadership race through the fall while they're still a leader should
Carter
18:04
should we take a moment and just kind of say like the different ways that they could in fact stand apart like i'd
Corey
18:09
i'd love to hear your thoughts on it one
Carter
18:11
one way that they could try and stand apart is to take on rachel oh
Corey
18:14
oh right i was sure you're gonna say start a podcast um
Carter
18:17
um no that it just doesn't know
Corey
18:18
know what they're gonna do that now they're gonna try to start podcasts well
Corey
18:23
i mean we don't need the competition well let's
Carter
18:25
let's be honest i mean uh the
Carter
18:28
the hurley burley's trying to start a new one in bc i mean that's Yeah, what is
Carter
18:34
it's like watching a drowning man, really. You know, like, David,
Carter
18:42
come on, man. Like, it's
Carter
18:44
it's just, it's not a good look for you at your age.
Carter
18:50
like, I think you could, like, there's stupid things. And I'm kind of saying, you know, that you could take on Rachel Notley. Not because I think it's a smart play, But I think that it's so hard to generate attention in today's world. I mean, I think that everybody thinks, oh, attention is just a smart tweet away. But that's not how these things work. It is a it's far harder than people think it is to actually get attention onto a prospective candidate. Right. If you're a counselor or an MLA or something along those lines.
Carter
19:21
I mean, you're just not going to get the the the attention. right so well
Corey
19:25
well you've said the why they won't but like you tell tell me how they could i
Carter
19:29
think that one would weigh it would be to thomas mulcair right so thomas mulcair um was a a badger in the in the house of commons he he earned his stripes by being uh an excellent performer in that old chestnut of question period um and
Carter
19:48
and that that got at least the media's attention and getting the media's attention is one really strong way to to start moving things you know for you right if at least the media know how to spell your name then well
Corey
20:02
well and if you kind of impress them and then when they're doing their own roundups you you get onto their list i think that's a perfect point by the way uh breaking news here jeremy has uh replied back first of all he said this sounds like gripping podcast content he's
Corey
20:16
yeah and then so i said okay but why not sitting down he said because it It was a speech to an audience, so.
Carter
20:25
Okay, which part am I missing here? Because it was a speech.
Corey
20:29
Well, and he says sometimes those are standing, and that's it. That's the end of the text there.
Corey
20:34
We could probably do this a little more.
Carter
20:36
You know what? We should, we should.
Corey
20:39
probably call him up.
Carter
20:39
up. He's good at politics.
Corey
20:46
Don't, you know, don't pick on Jeremy. He's got a, he's got a stressful job there. i wasn't trying to pick on him i was trying
Carter
20:51
trying to damn him with faint praise um yeah
Carter
20:54
it was a different thing i think
Corey
20:57
all right you missed
Corey
20:57
it was supposed to
Corey
21:00
now now we text rob anderson and we see why daniel smith was in person and not by zoom
Corey
21:08
see who he replies to right away yeah
Carter
21:13
actually it'd be interesting to see if we get a response would
Corey
21:16
would be all right well we'll
Corey
21:18
we'll let the audience know by the end of this all here yeah
Corey
21:20
yeah okay so like giving do
Carter
21:21
do have rob's number by the way should i should i text them do
Carter
21:26
don't think it's a good idea okay
Corey
21:31
uh make yourself known as somebody who's a performer let the media kind of at least be aware of you because that you're planting seeds for a future garden yeah
Corey
21:40
right it's one strategy one
Corey
21:42
one thing i haven't And here, as you mentioned, leadership
Corey
21:45
leadership contests tend to be won by having the most members. Are there things you can do to build your organization at this particular point?
Carter
21:52
It's harder because you're not a known entity. Sure. You have to bring your own kids to the play, if you will. I mean, it's difficult to recruit party stalwarts. They're going to be saying, you know, oh, I've already, you know, I'm working with this person or that person or I really I'm trying to recruit someone with a bit more profile. And you probably can't afford to just drop in a pro. You know, you can't just hire talent. I've seen lots of people try to hire talent at this stage, but it doesn't really work that well. You have to have at the very least a base of support within the organization that you're trying to trying to lead. So getting
Carter
22:37
getting into showing that basis of where I was talking to Samir before the election and
Carter
22:42
and my big pitch to him was no matter what happens, a person who can raise money is going to be known and remembered. So don't worry about anything except raising cash, because if you can raise money, and out of Calgary Elbow, Calgary Elbow is, for those people who aren't in Alberta, it's a fundraising mecca. It overlaps with Calgary Center federally, which has for years been the number one fundraising organization in the Liberal
Carter
23:17
Liberal Party of Canada. So there's money on the table in that group. So if Samir had, for example, decided to be a fundraiser, then people would have taken notice of that because they would know where the money was flowing in from. um he he didn't take my advice because because people told him well
Corey
23:37
well as far as you know that's that's kind of hidden stuff if you're fundraising no
Corey
23:42
you can take my
Carter
23:45
one of our mutual acquaintances said that it was a bad idea to listen to steven carter oh
Corey
23:50
oh okay so one of our smarter mutual acquaintances or what what's going on no
Carter
23:54
no no it's no no no one's smart aren't okay don't
Carter
23:57
don't talk crazy yeah
Corey
23:59
yeah look so it's interesting to me because of course memberships are the lifeblood they're the currency of leadership contests you might even say put that on a mug carter get ready we should put that on
Carter
24:07
on a mug that's so good people
Corey
24:08
people are the currency of leadership contests yeah
Corey
24:11
yeah members members i guess yeah
Corey
24:14
it does seem to me that there is probably it's
Corey
24:17
it's really tough like these things are really easy to say they're much harder to do but you could argue let me at least argue a case for you that if you want to be leader leader or if you just want to be a stalwart who helps grow the party a lot of those activities look the same right now like we've got to strengthen the party we've got to be talking to other communities we've got to grow the base these are things you would say as a good lieutenant to a leader and things you would say as a leadership contest a
Corey
24:41
contestant right well and
Carter
24:42
and i think that people really underestimate the value of being a good lieutenant on a on a leadership campaign before even launching their own yeah
Carter
24:50
you know um number twos number threes become really really good leaders, uh, after they, they help someone. I mean, that would be my advice to a newbie would be get in with who you think is going to win, right? Like get in with, with whoever your side is. I'm not sure that a path exists for, um, a true newbie, like the Calgary candidates that were winning. I'm just not sure they have the leadership. Now, maybe they can prove me wrong in the first session, but for
Carter
25:20
for reasons that we're already discussing, it's a very hard path. It's not as hard a path to be number two to an existing candidate it's
Corey
25:27
it's interesting um don't
Corey
25:29
don't want to discount the uh the idea that they start a really popular political podcast as an avenue to yeah
Carter
25:35
yeah but i mean how many people have successfully started a successful it's basically
Corey
25:38
basically you and me bud
Carter
25:41
right now it's you and me because fucking zane's nowhere right
Corey
25:48
okay well this session is going to be interesting for a couple of other It was mentioned that there's going to be this bill for the Alberta pension plan that is somewhat defining the terms in kind of crazy ways, saying the payments would never be more, the payouts would never be less, there'd be a referendum. How does
Corey
26:06
does the government do that? this bill is going to seem like basically they've
Corey
26:09
they've turned a promise into a bill it's it's actually even in the long labored
Corey
26:14
labored painful history of bill ones that mean and say nothing this feels like it might even be next level to that i
Carter
26:22
just don't understand how you guarantee something um
Carter
26:27
that is a financial instrument like that i
Corey
26:29
i mean every financial investment you make comes with with the same disclaimer right yes performance is not an indicator of future results and
Corey
26:38
and uh no we've got a different plan here looks like well i just
Carter
26:44
it's just very frustrating for me because you
Carter
26:46
you know if this is going to be bill one and
Carter
26:49
and i don't know i
Corey
26:49
i don't know if it's bill one but it's in the first suite of bills i
Carter
26:52
i don't understand why it would be i mean it
Carter
26:55
it is an incredibly unpopular piece right now and
Carter
26:59
and uh i mean i'm hoping to get some more data on it relatively soon, but right now it's, it's just not very popular. So why would you invest your
Carter
27:08
your first year, you
Carter
27:10
you know, uh, investment in something that's just not popular? I just don't understand that. This
Corey
27:16
This is something I wanted to talk about on Jesper's show. We talked a lot about the Alberta pension plan and we never quite got here, but
Corey
27:23
but the thing you've asked, I think is the question that's been really spooling around in my mind. Like, you
Corey
27:28
you know, uh, Jesper was saying something something like, why
Corey
27:30
why would you do this? It seems unpopular, walk away. And, you know, the answer I never got the chance to say is, you do unpopular things if they really matter to you, right? Governments do unpopular things in their first couple of years. Jason Kenney did all of those cuts to the public service, you know, not popular, but he did them.
Corey
27:51
Rachel Notley brought in a price on carbon.
Corey
27:54
Had to know that wasn't fundamentally a popular idea. Yeah.
Corey
27:59
clever kind of mechanism to do it obviously the federal liberals have have gotten in on that game but not a popular idea but something that was deemed important you know action that needed to occur right governments do that is two
Corey
28:12
two things one is it's really weird to have you know people say all the time the ndp didn't really have a mandate to do this but they did have on their platform they were going to do something in this space right right the
Corey
28:24
the ucp though daniel smith though
Corey
28:29
is not a campaign issue it's a bit weird to make your big thing you're going to spend all your first year capital on a
Corey
28:36
thing that you told people you weren't running on yeah
Carter
28:39
yeah that you weren't actually going to do it wasn't that important people
Corey
28:42
people have i think torqued what she said a little bit and you know to be fair to her what she said is this is not an issue for the campaign uh
Corey
28:52
uh if we do this you're gonna go with the kim campbell
Carter
28:55
for i'm not what
Corey
28:56
but she never said i'm not going to do this she said it's not an issue for the campaign and don't worry there would be a referendum before we did it that's
Corey
29:03
that's what she said now
Corey
29:05
now we we being the collective province of alberta took that as she's
Corey
29:11
she's not going to do that and i don't think it was totally unreasonable because of the way she kind of batted it away and certainly did not make it seem like it was going to happen within a couple of months of the election right certainly
Carter
29:21
bill one or in the full 100%,
Corey
29:23
100%, but she did, she did kind of, she hasn't lied on this particular issue.
Carter
29:32
Wow. What a standard, what
Carter
29:35
what a standard, man.
Corey
29:36
man. I don't know, you know, but like, it's interesting to me that she has, is putting all of this political capital on the line for
Corey
29:43
for something like this. For
Carter
29:45
For something that really doesn't also like it's, um,
Carter
29:47
um, one of the things I've been talking One of the things I talked about at this conference, again, is the return of the give-a-fuck factor, right? Like we were talking about how do you get a government to care about something that you care about, but the general population may not care about to the same level. And the truth of the matter is that it's really hard. um it is in it is super hard to get government to pay attention to something that um general population doesn't care about uh unless they care about it tremendously um so this this being
Carter
30:23
in the first salvo i mean it's just so weird to me like where's the long-term benefit to albertans i just don't understand it unless we end up in the spot where the long-term benefit to albertans is that we invest in our dying industries i mean it's just wow
Carter
30:40
wow i mean talk about doubling down on on uh on oil and gas this could be this could be the worst decision in uh canadian political history i mean
Corey
30:51
mean could doing a lot of heavy lifting for both pro and side of this this could yeah
Carter
30:56
yeah this could be uh you could already be a winner um
Corey
31:00
um publishers clearinghouse yeah i
Carter
31:02
i mean this is the this is the reference
Corey
31:03
reference that you and i get as gen xers but some of our younger listeners we don't
Carter
31:07
don't have younger listeners do you remember that survey we put up
Corey
31:12
nights when we don't
Carter
31:12
don't have zane and especially
Corey
31:13
especially yeah they bring in the younger demographic yeah
Carter
31:15
yeah for sure hey
Corey
31:17
hey so imagine like cast yourself back say it's september say it's before the government put this all out yeah
Corey
31:24
and they obviously have a plan so they are armed with let's just think about the things that they have right they
Corey
31:29
they have polling right
Corey
31:32
they know that in kind of a general sense albertans are not cool with an alberta pension plan let's say it's two to one a post they probably have message testing which says if we provide this message then albertans are more receptive and i if i had to guess it was probably if you heard payouts are more would that make you more likely if
Corey
31:51
if you heard your payments are lower would that make it more more likely.
Corey
31:56
Probably because, you know, I don't get any sense that they did any durability on this message. You probably didn't test on the counter messaging, but they're sitting there saying, okay, if we can tell people these things, we can get them there, right? These are things that we have polled. It polls well. We can get that out there. Oh, and by the way, we have this LifeWorks report, which says we have all the money in the world, so we can promise these things. Seriously doubt they polled on the LifeWorks number. We would have heard about that. That That would have leaked out even before. It would have
Carter
32:24
have leaked for sure.
Corey
32:26
So, they go out and they say, what's our plan? How are we going to get to yes on an Alberta pension plan?
Carter
32:32
But this is, you know, how many times have you talked about polling on a novel concept? So
Carter
32:37
It's very clear that Rob Anderson's not listening.
Corey
32:40
Well, you should text him and tell him, like, to listen to this
Carter
32:43
I'm not going to do that. I'm going to tell you a whole number of reasons why. Number one, I don't like Rob Anderson.
Carter
32:52
Okay. I think that this is, this is, I
Carter
32:56
don't want, you know, the other thing I've been thinking about is I don't want to fight this. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to take my time and my effort to fight this particular battle. It's such a bad idea for Alberta. And I just don't want to be
Corey
33:11
be forced to push this. It does almost feel like we're almost having to like humor a bad faith, bad idea. You know, it does feel crazy that way. But I don't want to get off the thing. i was i never even got to my point because i
Corey
33:24
i was i'm gonna admit i was being a little long-winded here i was i was trying to paint a word picture though okay
Corey
33:31
you're sitting there and you are trying to say how do we get them to yes and so you put together a suite of things right we're going to do this report from jim dinning it's going to come out which is going to include doing these uh tele you know telephone town halls across the province we're going to back it up with millions of dollars of advertising total shock and now we're going to define this issue right off the bat this is we're going to make sure everybody thinks about it in terms of those key messages that we want higher payouts lower payments and we can invest it here in alberta or whatever they've tested on right yeah
Corey
34:04
and then as part of this wonderful suite you've created we've got to build one like wouldn't that be a natural we've got to build one i'm not saying it's a good idea i'm saying cast yourself back to september doesn't
Corey
34:15
doesn't it kind of seem like it's part part of the same suite okay
Carter
34:19
i just can't get past the idea that your bill one should really be something that is kind of uh
Carter
34:26
uh reminding people why they elected you yeah
Corey
34:29
yeah right you only get the bill one after the election should be the easiest bill one right
Carter
34:33
right like it's like well
Corey
34:34
well and it might not actually be bill one it might be bill four right but but you know
Carter
34:38
know what it's it's the defining piece
Corey
34:40
piece of legislation for
Carter
34:40
for the session right that's what we're talking about it doesn't need to be numbered But it's a defining piece of legislation. If this is the defining piece of legislation, this is what they want to be remembered
Carter
34:50
remembered for. But they
Carter
34:53
they wouldn't even campaign on it.
Carter
34:55
They wouldn't even campaign on it. They're not being, you know, honest about it by any stretch of the imagination. It just doesn't feel like super solid politics.
Carter
35:06
I mean, I guess what we saw when we saw the UCP campaigning and the NDP's response campaign, we didn't necessarily see good politics either. So maybe this shouldn't be the surprise. eyes so
Corey
35:20
so if you've strapped in in september with
Corey
35:22
with all of this crap you now know that okay and there's a lot of conjecture because we don't know what government polling is but let's just say it's somewhat backed up by all the data points we have yeah
Corey
35:32
and that this is not actually getting more popular at least not nearly enough you know the movement is not occurring despite the millions being thrown at it despite the shock and awe campaign and all of this going out uh you know know, in glad handing and sending out your experts like Jim Dinning to, to try to change people's mind. You keep saying expert
Carter
35:49
expert and Jim Dinning
Corey
35:50
Dinning in the same sentence
Carter
35:51
sentence and I'm finding
Carter
35:51
finding it quite amusing.
Corey
35:52
It's, it feels weird after everything he's done right now, for sure. But, you know. The
Carter
35:57
The comment I've gotten from people is we thought he was qualified to be the finance minister. That's what people keep
Corey
36:02
keep saying to me. Oh, he was almost premier, man. Like that was really close.
Corey
36:06
Let's sing a song for Jim.
Corey
36:08
Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a reference no one's going to get, but Dan Arnold will get it. dan arnold but i loved
Corey
36:13
dan arnold will get it it's fine this is all for dan arnold okay dan
Corey
36:18
dan it's a good song drop it in the discord dan yeah
Corey
36:21
know you're listening to
Carter
36:25
where are we on your story uh
Corey
36:26
uh you know what where we are is this like at a certain point
Corey
36:30
when do you when do you pull the chute when
Corey
36:33
when do you say okay
Corey
36:34
okay for we thought that we'd be able to move things no movement has happened yet when
Corey
36:39
when do you pull the chute well
Carter
36:40
well if it were me i would try I'm going to try and pull the chute before I got to, you know, the throne speech, which is next week, because I don't want to go into a throne speech, waste all this political capital for something that's ultimately not going to get to that referendum. Right? Because, because that's the key.
Carter
36:59
If they can get to the referendum and have a decent chance of winning, then you may as well continue on the path. But if you have just thrown $10
Carter
37:06
$10 million at this thing and you don't see a path to actually getting the referendum
Carter
37:13
referendum outcome that you're expecting, then I think that the
Carter
37:17
the wise course of action is to pull the chute sooner than later.
Carter
37:21
You've got to not take the hit, especially
Carter
37:27
especially given that this wasn't a major piece that you were campaigning on. There's other things that you can go for. there's other ways of strengthening the economy but i guess you know they're not really tied to anything that they they campaigned on anyways i mean they killed no one heard about a moratorium on renewables during the campaign either it's
Corey
37:44
it's a great point yeah and and i i we've talked about this i struggle to think of a government that did so many big things that were not in their platform so soon after they were elected definitely has a bit of a bait and switch feeling to it let
Corey
37:59
me ask you this okay
Corey
38:02
there was so much noise before the election in terms of unruly caucus people with these you know absolute fantasy wishes that they were going to get rid of danielle smith after the election if the ucp won people we know in the ucp caucus we're talking like talking about
Carter
38:16
about how it didn't matter because danielle smith wasn't going to last a year yeah
Corey
38:20
yeah she wasn't going to be there and
Corey
38:22
and haven't heard much of that talk lately does that talk a does that talk kind of heat up up again over the session we've got a obviously a big flashpoint with the ucp agm in a couple of weeks here and b how
Corey
38:34
how does the need to kind of manage that caucus play into all of this alberta pension plan shit in both ways you
Carter
38:41
you know who's managed i mean the person managing the caucus is david parker right
Carter
38:45
right david parker with his take back alberta crew uh they are the ones who are are currently standing up to, uh, to the AGM, we will see how many positions he takes. Um, the feedback I'm getting right now is that he doesn't even need the, the presidency because he's going to have a super majority on the board and that super majority on the board is going to be able to push through whatever he wants. So whichever one of the, uh, candidates becomes the, the president is irrelevant because he just uses the board to do what his action is from
Carter
39:19
from the from the get-go very
Carter
39:21
very interesting theory um but what that what that does is if
Carter
39:25
if this so for example right right now we're all assuming that this is a rob anderson idea because it's so stupid it really could only come from one man you
Corey
39:33
you should text and ask him yeah
Carter
39:35
i should have texted and asked him but you know do we even know if he can read um
Corey
39:39
why why are you being all right keep going what
Carter
39:43
what did i say i just
Corey
39:44
just think you know
Corey
39:46
he could have have given us some answers here and now you're being mean to him he's not going to give us those answers i
Carter
39:49
i don't think he's listening i i honestly don't think he's gonna give us any answers i anyways
Carter
39:54
anyways david parker is the the power that i see behind this and if he thinks that it should continue it will continue and if he thinks it should stop it will stop um you
Corey
40:04
you give him a lot of authority i think but
Carter
40:06
but the reason i give him the authority is because i understand how these part that how that party works that party has to have a leadership review sometime in the next next 18 months, or not 18 months, a little longer than that. But there's a leadership review that needs to be held. David Parker, whoever controls the board, controls when and if the leadership review is held.
Carter
40:29
And if you can stack the AGM two years in a row, and this is all big if, I mean, maybe he falls on his face, face plants on it. But if he can stack the AGM two years in a row, When people know that he's going to stack the AGM, then
Carter
40:45
then his organization skills are better than mine. They're better than yours, right? He is better at organizing than you or I could be because you and I can't take over the UCP.
Carter
41:01
That's just the way that I, that's how I give him credit. That's how the mental math in my mind is working.
Corey
41:08
it's it's fascinating to think and i guess we'll know a little bit more uh down the road here but well
Carter
41:13
well i mean i think we need to uh to go to the convention to
Carter
41:16
to be honest i mean do a live show we'll probably get media accreditation we
Corey
41:19
we should probably do a live show at the ucp convention that's a good point yeah
Corey
41:23
what are media credentials like a thousand bucks a piece we can do that thanks patrons thanks
Carter
41:27
thanks for that we could do that thanks for sure
Corey
41:29
sure we could yeah because
Carter
41:31
because you haven't sent us our money from the last i haven't
Corey
41:34
the finances in about four months now now to to be fair because people are going to say holy shit four months we only generally do them every three right we only do our dividends every three
Carter
41:42
three except you'll recall the last time was like six months no
Corey
41:47
yeah right but in theory it was going to be three yeah
Carter
41:49
yeah well i'm what
Carter
41:50
what i'm trying to get across to the listeners because the listeners don't understand how you speak is
Carter
41:55
is that nothing you're saying is true i
Corey
41:58
guess what i'm saying is you'll be lucky to have your money by christmas stephen well
Carter
42:02
well christmas would be great yeah christmas
Corey
42:04
would be a good time for that kind of money right it's
Carter
42:06
it's a great time for that kind of money very
Carter
42:09
thank you again to the patrons yeah
Corey
42:10
yeah we appreciate it you can tell we rely on this money yeah
Carter
42:14
yeah that's why we're doing this episode you and i care about this we
Corey
42:17
we care about this
Carter
42:18
this those fuckers on the other side they don't care i
Corey
42:20
i got annalise i don't know we
Corey
42:23
pay her who's annalise she's a cipher she's a a mystery to us all yeah
Corey
42:28
one more issue i've been saving this one you
Carter
42:31
you see how i'm kind
Carter
42:32
like i was ready to
Carter
42:33
stop this i just kind of
Corey
42:33
of feel like you said the episode number but i feel more like i've been the host this particular episode here you've
Carter
42:38
you've done a good job too thank you yeah
Carter
42:40
yeah i've really kept it moving i think yeah i think it's been one of our strongest episodes i
Corey
42:44
definitely one of our strongest episodes i think i
Carter
42:48
i don't know i think we really crushed the last one let's
Corey
42:53
another poll we'll put another poll another poll up yeah
Corey
42:57
yeah that can go up with our uh our our various other polls going on today
Corey
43:02
there's a big thing there's a we we've kind of drifted over stuff that's not even really news for a bit but there's big news that happened this week arguably some of the biggest news that's happened on the environmental front in years here in canada and
Corey
43:18
and it's trudeau monkeying with his own carbon tax creating a carbon tax holiday for three years for heating oil heating
Corey
43:25
heating oil for those who are uninitiated is really only used to heat homes in any kind of large numbers in the maritimes no
Carter
43:33
no i use yes
Carter
43:34
yes i use um natural gas to heat my home surely natural gas would be covered because natural gas
Carter
43:42
heating my home and uh it's it's exactly like oil insofar as you light it on fire it's
Corey
43:48
it's a great great great observation steven no not covered this carve out is i'm
Carter
43:54
i'm sorry pardon this
Corey
43:56
this carve out is effectively
Corey
43:58
effectively geographically targeted to the people of the maritimes uh
Corey
44:02
uh does not does not help us in alberta which is effectively 100 natural gas i'm
Carter
44:10
because i'm not gonna lie to you my heating bill is up my
Carter
44:12
my electricity bill is up as you know electricity rates in the province of alberta in
Corey
44:16
in alberta they've gone up a lot are up
Carter
44:18
up and i had i had the right plan so i'm not dying but still this isn't great what
Carter
44:24
what i'm trying well
Corey
44:25
well i have some bad news for you uh there are not a lot of competitive seats in alberta so i think we're gonna get fucked on this one oh
Corey
44:32
but let's talk about why in addition to that being kind of poor form that's That's probably poor politics as well. Well, let's just talk about the poor policy. I think you can argue that from a policy point of view, tinkering with a policy is not a horrible thing. But there is certainly a crass cynicism in creating a carve-out that you say is about one thing that's actually about another thing, right? Heating oil, okay.
Corey
44:57
Can't help but notice, though, that this is very, very specific to a geography that the liberals care about an awful lot. Well,
Carter
45:03
I'm a little still taken aback that it doesn't cover natural gas. I literally started off thinking, well, as long as I can get natural gas covered off, then at least I can run my natural gas fireplace and my natural gas furnace for the rest of the winter. But hearing that that's carved out for other, like,
Carter
45:25
I don't know anybody who uses heating oil.
Corey
45:28
Of course you don't. You live in Alberta. I don't know. But it's
Corey
45:31
it's like 40, 50% in some parts of the Maritimes, more in the rural areas.
Corey
45:36
So that's weird. Cutting up whales?
Carter
45:37
whales? Is that how they, is this the legacy? Well,
Corey
45:40
Well, now you're just getting into, yeah, it's cutting up whales. They cut up whales and they put them in a boiler outside of their houses. And then they all have fiddle parties in the kitchen. It's like, it's basically, it's what's going on there.
Corey
45:53
That was terrible. My family's from the Maritimes, by the way. I'm from the Maritimes. Oh,
Carter
45:58
Oh, so you won't get roasted on that. Stephen's
Corey
45:59
Stephen's Bean. Yeah, well, I'm trying to clarify that before I do get roasted on this. Oh,
Carter
46:03
Oh, I see. Yeah.
Corey
46:04
Okay. Very good. Listen up. The politics of this are broken as hell. The liberals for so many years have been saying the carbon tax, because of the rebates, is not actually a financial hardship. Vast majority of people get more money back than they put in. You
Corey
46:19
You familiar with this message,
Carter
46:20
message, Troy? I believe that message, too. I actually believe that that's true.
Corey
46:25
Okay. A little bit undercut when you say, we understand this is a hardship. therefore we're not going to make you pay it for a while well
Carter
46:32
well especially when there are other avenues available right like you don't have to like in order to give people financial relief you're going to be shocked to hear this cory you don't
Corey
46:40
don't need to use the carbon tax you don't need
Carter
46:42
need to use the carbon tax you could like i don't know if maybe maybe people are unaware but you could give people a credit that says this is a heating home heating credit home and you
Carter
46:53
just send the money send
Corey
46:55
send people a home heating credit what a fucking great idea that's
Carter
46:59
that's a good idea hey like i
Corey
47:00
came up with that on
Carter
47:01
on the spot um
Corey
47:02
could do it across the
Carter
47:03
the country it wouldn't
Carter
47:05
i mean everywhere except british columbia obviously because they don't need to heat their homes but you
Carter
47:10
you know like the rest of the country we could get all this going yeah yeah
Corey
47:14
listen the the liberal government's very concerned about affordability so we brought in the home heating credit uh this summer and or this winter and it's going to be for the next three years and the home heating credit is going to reduce the costs of heating because we're trying to make life more affordable and
Corey
47:30
and then if somebody electricity
Carter
47:31
electricity uh credit you could do whatever
Corey
47:34
whatever you want and
Corey
47:35
and you could do that as
Carter
47:36
as direct checks with uh justin trudeau's signature on it and none of these ideas would undermine your uh core platform which
Corey
47:46
which has been really undermine your your major policy initiative that is the carbon tax i mean
Carter
47:52
how come you and i haven't gotten a phone call i don't know this justin
Corey
47:58
mean you see now you're picking on the maritimers now you're doing the french thing the other half of my family's from quebec so that
Carter
48:04
that was actually my maritime accent
Carter
48:08
i think i fucked okay
Corey
48:10
okay i think i fucked that up you you broke it a bit okay so
Corey
48:15
now 1,000 carve-outs will bloom. You'll have so many people calling for carve-outs of various things that shouldn't be covered for the carbon tax.
Carter
48:22
Yeah, it's ridiculous to me. Isn't it ridiculous to you? It
Corey
48:25
It is ridiculous to me. And the other problem is the
Corey
48:28
the government has said they wouldn't do this for Alberta as recently as four weeks ago. Like, how unfair would it be if we did this? Something like this for a province and other provinces didn't benefit. So, you know, it's in general just kind of crappy. You know, it doesn't leave a good taste in anybody's mouth looking at this particular issue.
Carter
48:49
Listen, I have a lot of empathy for people who are going to struggle under the weight of inflation and the weight of, you know, being living in a cold climate, you know, when really, you
Carter
49:02
you know, heating is just not optional, right? It's not optional. And a lot of people will suffer. A lot of people will struggle to make ends meet in this particular environment. I have empathy for them. But this is a dumb policy. It just it's just not good. And I just want to know, like,
Carter
49:20
like, who would even test like, how would you even test this to come up with this as the as the best possible outcome?
Carter
49:28
it just doesn't even make sense to me. Well,
Corey
49:30
Well, it feels very panicky, very responsive to the Conservatives pushing for like their axe the tax mantra and just in general reducing the views of Canadians of the carbon tax. So it feels insanely responsive to that. It definitely feels like yet another example of how Pierre Polyev is setting the policy agenda in this country, despite not being in a position of power, right? That is very much the case, in my opinion.
Corey
49:58
other challenge that they have though now oh
Corey
50:01
oh fuck i don't know they have so many challenges with this particular matter but i
Corey
50:05
i just don't know how they are going to be able to um hold
Corey
50:09
hold the line on their sort of market mechanism for for carbon pricing when the americans went a different way when they now are kind of cutting into their own thing when you've got this real patchwork across the country which at one point was supposed to be a feature but yeah
Corey
50:24
the other thing steven is this
Corey
50:26
only applies to federally regulated areas of course so even if you were using heating oil in a jurisdiction like quebec or
Corey
50:33
or british columbia it doesn't help you one bit yeah
Carter
50:36
no i mean this is it's just wild i mean uh i i saw andrew leach made a speech this week that i went to a lecture and uh you know he makes the point that the united states is currently turning the renewables market Right. And they are doing things and attacking things in a way that we are left just being responsive. We don't have a trick that we can play to make ourselves better in this particular situation. We are in real trouble just trying to keep
Carter
51:10
keep up with them. I mean, this is why we're seeing all these heavy subsidies, because these subsidies are required for us just to stay in the game with a 800-pound gorilla making significant
Carter
51:21
significant changes in the way that we think of renewable energy, which is great. I'm for this. I'm a big fan of all of this. but it just puts us on the back foot and and then to come through with our our signature program on this and then to undermine it so dramatically with
Carter
51:39
with nothing in place to move us to the next level it's just it strikes me as as i
Carter
51:47
i mean really bad policy really bad politics and again uh you You know, we are again put in the place where without wanting to, we're forced to criticize this particular government because they continue to do things that don't
Carter
52:04
don't make sense and aren't in their best interest. And I just don't understand how Justin Trudeau, who is now currently polling, by the way, in a place that would reduce him. I mean, he manages to avoid third party status, not through his own good graces, but just by the ineptitude of the others, of the other parties. that he's playing against this is just it is a tragic situation i spoke with someone today staunch conservative just can't stand uh pierre polliev and and and they're like what is going on how do we get away from a government that's going to be pierre polliev uh
Carter
52:41
uh knowing what a risk that is to the country especially giving him a majority and there's one man who's doing it and the one man is justin trudeau well
Corey
52:51
well this does a little bit lead into the last thing i wanted to ask you about tonight are we that
Carter
52:57
seriously how long is
Corey
52:58
is one more thing like it's kind of a it's a thing on the thing it's a you know it's a hat on a hat here okay
Corey
53:06
do you think not
Corey
53:08
justin trudeau oh okay
Corey
53:11
yeah you know it was a it was a it was a dramatic effect yeah do you you think that justin trudeau regrets
Corey
53:17
regrets introducing the carbon tax and
Corey
53:22
and let while you're sitting there thinking about it i want to be clear i'm not saying he regrets action on climate i'm saying that of all of the mechanisms that were available to him to address this things like joe biden did massive investments in infrastructure that's green infrastructure for example massive tax credits he He could have done that, too. He could have taken a regulation, incentive-heavy approach to fighting climate change. But instead, he went for the market mechanism, which, as we've talked about in this show, is not even instinctively a left-wing idea or a center-left idea. No, this is a right
Corey
53:58
idea. This is a market-force idea. Yeah. This is a right-wing idea. This
Corey
54:02
This is supposed to be championed
Carter
54:03
championed by people like Pierre Polyev, who say, let the markets figure it out. So
Corey
54:07
So do you think Justin Trudeau regrets this kind of complicated market-based solution that Canadians don't really get, that they're not feeling like the money's going back into their pocket, that he's now bleeding on across the board? He's got his own MPs voting against his carbon initiatives. You'll recall the one from Newfoundland who did that. and now you are cutting big
Corey
54:28
big chunks out uh for heating oil simply because um you know you can't afford to even like you're not in the game at all if you lose those seats you're probably not in the game either way but you're for sure not in the game if you lose the maritimes do
Corey
54:43
do you think he regrets doing a carbon tax well
Carter
54:44
well let me let i i so when i first heard you ask the question what i heard was did he did he does he regret action on climate and i don't think he does but i think I think that what I'm hearing now as I'm listening a little bit more carefully, you're
Carter
55:01
you're saying of all of the actions that were available to him, there were just so many lower consequence actions. And for example, the investment in hydro across the country would have been exceptionally popular, you know, replacing electricity generation that no longer makes sense in this particular environment. He could have done all of that. He could take us to, he could have invested in low carbon activities that would have been way more up
Carter
55:36
up his alley, if you will, something that was more natural for him. And yeah, I think that that, you
Carter
55:43
you know, looking back at it in hindsight, him
Carter
55:46
him listening to, you
Carter
55:49
know, the minds that he did may have been the reason why he's in trouble, not because he's taken action on climate. I think that he needed to take action on climate and he would have viewed his government to failure if he hadn't. But the action that he took on climate could have been so much more popular
Carter
56:07
popular and populist if he was just doing what Biden is doing under the, what
Carter
56:14
what did he call it? The Build Back Better
Corey
56:15
Better Act or something? Investment or Inflation Reduction Act. I
Corey
56:20
I mean, what a stupid title.
Carter
56:21
title. I mean, it's
Carter
56:22
it's spend as much money as humanly possible. quickly as possible i mean
Corey
56:26
mean it is ridiculous but it did kind of speak to affordability in certain senses and so i just sit here thinking about paths
Corey
56:33
paths that i don't think would ever have been seriously considered and probably fail even like a second degree policy scrutiny here but yeah
Corey
56:41
say if instead of everything that he did here you know i'm just thinking about the the heating oil conversation we just came from say if he said i
Corey
56:49
i will you know there are about 15 million dwellings in canada the
Corey
56:53
the government will pay for anybody to convert to a heat pump anybody you
Corey
56:59
you know that's about let's just say it's ten thousand dollars a heat pump certainly with the scale you'd be looking at for 15 million you could probably even go a little lower than that let's say it's ten thousand dollars a heat pump that's 150 billion dollars that's an insane amount of money but if you're the federal government 30 billion dollars a year is doable and you could do it over five years i actually i think your problem would be installation i don't think you'd have the bandwidth with on that i think
Carter
57:21
think you could do this so fast that there would be so many companies popping up that you know like if
Carter
57:28
if you stayed away from some of the bigger like more you know like the easiest areas to get a lot of attention are in electric cars and things like that sure
Carter
57:36
i think that if you stayed away from things like electric cars and instead really focused in on um these things that would have massive impact right like uh heat pumps um a small small electricity generation uh solar panels yeah
Carter
57:56
investment in in uh uh battery research my daughter's uh about to begin uh some work in her chemistry degree on on these really interesting uh ideas and battery research that's happening in the university of calgary i don't know if you're familiar with it cory but But University of Calgary has some excellent programs and some excellent
Corey
58:17
excellent research. I hear they have executive, excellent senior leaders, too.
Carter
58:22
Well, no. But there's, you know, like the professors are pretty good is what I'm trying to get across. Okay.
Corey
58:32
the administrators, though. I think the administrators. In spite of
Carter
58:34
of the leadership more than anything. Well,
Corey
58:36
you know, maybe the administrators are better than you think. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Oh,
Carter
58:39
Oh, and apropos of nothing. thing my daughter uh was said like had a no uh about taking two courses back to back so i'll i'll call you later we'll
Carter
58:51
you should call me
Corey
58:52
me about that yeah okay i'm
Carter
58:54
i'm like i i i said to her don't worry cory's
Carter
58:57
cory's got your back i
Corey
58:59
i gotta tell you something uh they don't give me the keys to that particular room shall we say yeah what yeah
Carter
59:07
it's weird i would would have thought that i i thought you were kind of a big wig over there i'm well
Corey
59:12
uh i gotta tell you let's
Corey
59:15
let's circle back to this idea of like they could have made big investments and obviously like buying everyone a heat pump that's just pie in the sky stuff but the point is though
Carter
59:23
though it's not because there's there are investment the investment generates a return right and if you calculate what your return is that you're looking for you can generate a return both in in offsets in carbon and in actual financial activity the
Carter
59:40
the the there's the the the growth i mean and i guess we would have probably run into a bigger inflationary problem but
Corey
59:47
but electricity i mean that all takes electricity too like there there are other considerations but i think that some of
Carter
59:52
of this could have been investment in small-scale electricity like we you
Corey
59:55
you and i would have been installing a
Carter
59:57
a uh you and i would be installing solar yeah
Corey
1:00:00
yeah we'd have pv everywhere but we wouldn't We didn't have to fix your
Carter
1:00:02
your fucking roof. We'd just be
Corey
1:00:04
be installing- Because the roof would just be solar panels. Yeah.
Carter
1:00:06
Yeah. Which, by the way, we never got around to.
Corey
1:00:08
Yeah, it was my garage, just for anyone listening who's worried about my roof. My roof's good.
Carter
1:00:13
Well, your roof's good, but not your garage roof.
Corey
1:00:14
roof. Roof's good. My garage roof is not good. My garage roof
Carter
1:00:17
roof is a nightmare.
Carter
1:00:17
Both of our spouses weren't committed to the process. They
Corey
1:00:19
They were a little concerned that one or both of us would end up dead. Then
Carter
1:00:23
Then there was that TikTok that showed the one guy just falling off. That
Corey
1:00:27
Well, that didn't do us any favors, that's for sure. Didn't help us. Didn't
Carter
1:00:29
Didn't help us with our cause.
Corey
1:00:33
You know what? That's
Carter
1:00:35
That's all I got.