Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1097. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.
Annalise
0:10
You're here. It only took us 10 minutes.
Annalise
0:13
20 minutes of tech issues. Yeah.
Carter
0:17
here. We were committed to this, though. Did you see that? That was
Corey
0:21
commitment. My favorite part of the tech issues are when Stephen did things that caused me tech issues. yeah the best part was
Annalise
0:28
was that we thought for once cory hogan had the tech issues wrong steven carter issues always the steven carter issue carter have you recovered from your mountain bike your mountain bike incident um today
Carter
0:41
today yeah the bruise is gone today um but
Carter
0:45
but it was pretty great did
Annalise
0:47
did you send did you send cory a nip pick i
Carter
0:50
did not send cory okay did
Annalise
0:51
did i send you a nip pick
Corey
0:53
No, I didn't send it. I don't think I sent a lot of the nipple pics. I wouldn't be here today if that had happened.
Annalise
0:58
threatened to send one to me, and I said no way. I did not threaten
Carter
1:01
to. I said it was inappropriate for me to send one to you because it contained a male nipple, and you concurred. I said, don't send that to me.
Annalise
1:12
have you recovered from your hosting? I haven't recovered from
Corey
1:17
from this conversation. I will never recover from it. uh yeah you know the my hosting yeah which i will i think we'll call like s tier hosting really managed to pull things out of some mediocre guests i think we'd agree right yeah for
Carter
1:31
for sure i listened to that episode pretty good you
Annalise
1:35
yeah you loved it um
Carter
1:39
kind of dominated the podcast and i wasn't even there so pretty
Carter
1:45
pretty much you like
Annalise
1:45
like did you like cory's lightning round when he asked who we preferred yeah
Carter
1:50
yeah that was really good and do you seem to be shocked that you were put into that spot you know
Corey
1:56
know I think I think they said what was good for comedy value I think we all know yeah you know their real answer Corey we
Annalise
2:03
we have listeners weighing in and say like they weren't they weren't even asked the question and they were choosing Carter so that's that's a little harsh
Corey
2:11
harsh yeah that's a little tough for me yeah yeah it's a bit of a rough ride okay
Annalise
2:20
we've got things to talk about um there is a conservative party convention happening right now in quebec city that i want to get your take on i want to do a little bit of a conservative party convention a party convention deep dive for our first segment um theme do you are you guys aware of what the theme of of this convention is did you see let's pretend that
Carter
2:46
that we are but maybe you you could refresh our memory it's
Annalise
2:51
sense convention guys oh i
Corey
2:52
i did see that
Annalise
2:53
that yeah obviously the common sense convention so i i want you to take i mean we can talk about this convention specifically it started uh today i believe thursday kind of going on friday saturday sunday but you guys have been to conventions you've probably helped plan them host I don't know. How,
Annalise
3:13
who are conventions for? Let's start with that. Who are
Annalise
3:17
are they for, Stephen Carter?
Carter
3:19
They're for your key supporters. They're for the 800 people across the country that keep the party running. We've talked about how few people it actually takes to keep a party running. I mean, obviously, donors are there and volunteers during an election. But between elections, there's a very small number of people who actually keep the lights on, make sure that all the forms are filed with Elections Canada. And this
Carter
3:46
this group of people goes to conventions. And they've known each other since they were in the Young Conservatives together or the Young Liberals together. Um, everybody's a young NDP, so you don't need to have a young NDP group, but that's
Carter
4:00
that's how, you know, parties are formed. These relationships exist over years. Uh, I've gone in as kind of an outsider to that. Um, and I've also gone in as, as an insider and, you know, it's an amazing, it's, it's like going to a college reunion, uh, more than it is like going to a political event because these people, you know, they, they're friends, they've known each other forever. And they're held together a little bit by ideology, but a lot by this common core experience that they've got that they just love.
Annalise
4:35
Is it college reunion-y or is it cult-y? And I ask that like very sincerely. I've been to one party convention in my life. So is it, I don't know, Corey, do you want to jump in there?
Corey
4:47
Well, I think it can be either. For most people, at least in my opinion, historically, it's been more college reunion-y. Carter's point is an important one. Political parties, especially I think in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, they were held together by this core of people who were elected delegates because they were the most active in the party, because they were the most committed to the party. they took on the presidencies of things. And really what keeps them there as much as anything else are the bonds to each other. And those bonds are formed at moments like this, and they're reinforced at moments like this. It's not entirely different now, but you tend to get a bit more of the true believer crowd, in my opinion, nowadays, with it a little bit more open and a little bit more of a transient crowd in the sense that they might come to one or two conventions and not come again. Whereas I feel like before, if you hadn't been going for the last 30 years of conventions, You were missing out on half the stories that people were telling to each other.
Corey
5:44
The other thing I'll say is the convention, the
Corey
5:46
the convention in the sense that Stephen described, like the one that bonds people together, really happens in the halls outside of the main rooms as much as it happens in the main rooms. But political parties do think, well, we're all here. Why not create a media event and why not try to propel our story out to Canadians? Canadians. And I think this is a good example of that this weekend with Pierre Polyev having a bit of momentum. Sure, he's getting the faithful together, but he's also trying to tell a story to Canadians. And a convention can be more than one thing.
Annalise
6:18
Do you want to talk about, I'm glad you brought up that media aspect. Do you want to talk about both of you, that balance? Like, how do you balance, you know, putting on a good memorable bonding time for these key people that are integral to the party with creating those media moments and with things not going off the rails. And I think we can get into kind of the policy debates. But what does that balancing act like?
Corey
6:39
Yeah, well, the two moments don't happen really at the same times of day, right? So we do know the big set pieces of convention are these major keynote speeches, usually in the evening at the same time or in the middle of the day on the weekend. And those are the things that the media come and set up for and react to and the pundits are on the scene and they're giving the commentary. Terry. The bonding happens at all times up to and including four in the morning, you know, as the hospitality suite has absolutely wound down. And you're still talking to the person you haven't talked to in 10 years who you were really close with in the past. And so you don't have to worry too much about one colliding with the other because they're not competing for the same airspace. Anybody who is going to be involved in that bonding exercise also knows their role is to go to the main hall and fill it and clap like hell when the leader says the things you you want to clap like hell for so they're not really in competition at all i you know they become like think of it like if you were on say a cruise or you were part of like a tour group and you know there's the things that you just have to do and then there's free time to do whatever you want at a convention the things you have to do are those big speeches and those big moments that make the party look good have
Annalise
7:48
have you been on a lot of cruises cory never
Corey
7:50
never won so i was way out there yeah i don't actually know if that's what cruises are like at all maybe carter can tell us
Carter
7:57
go on a cruise i
Carter
7:59
don't do cruises i do vacations i do vacations i have to recover people um you know
Carter
8:07
know exactly right i mean the the
Carter
8:10
the set pieces everybody knows the role and they come in they they all get the you know what are the thunder sticks or whatever and they smash
Carter
8:18
mash them together. They've all got their pageantry. They're scripted and choreographed pageantry lines. Each group tries to outdo the others, you know, so you'll have a group
Carter
8:29
group from, you know, Saskatchewan that's doing their own little kind of performance. And then the group from PEI will jump in and they'll try and do their thing. Everybody knows their roles because while they may not be scripted, if you've gone to two or three or four of these things, you know every single beat of it right you get the the early mornings are for policy right the lunch is for the speech the afternoons are for the is for the agm where everybody kind of goes through the the motions of what actually has to happen and then the evening is the great big you
Carter
9:01
you know uh party
Carter
9:03
party really uh that that everybody gets to go to and and then
Carter
9:07
then they go into their hospitality suites and drink the night away and that's
Carter
9:13
that's how they have fun other people go mountain biking I like going mountain biking but for these folks this is their group this is their social network that we talk a lot about social networks on the show and this is this
Carter
9:30
is their core group
Carter
9:32
group and they love it and they
Carter
9:35
they really resent outsiders I should point that out as well
Annalise
9:39
tell tell us more about that carter you
Carter
9:42
you know well it's like it's like you know when you came onto the show annalise and we were all so angry about it um
Carter
9:50
but you know that when you're an insider you're an insider right everybody knows the shorthand everybody knows the language everybody knows you remember that time in 19 blah blah blah and they all know the story and the person who doesn't know the story is an outsider who comes in and is maybe trying to write if if If all you're doing is coming in and you want to learn the old stories and you want to learn about what happened in the past and you want to be a part of that, people are very responsive to that. But if you want to change the story, I mean, this is why common sense is such an interesting, you know, theme. It's basically saying we're going back to the old stuff that worked for us in the past. And that's what these people love. They love, they hate change. They love consistency. inconsistency they
Carter
10:34
they like to believe that they are essential and they've seen it all i
Carter
10:38
mean they'll all tell you about the campaign in 1997 and what happened and what went wrong and why it went wrong why if only any somebody had listened to them then
Carter
10:47
then everything would have worked out fine um
Carter
10:49
um that's and that's a great that's those are great stories and those are great you know everybody you know
Corey
10:56
steven i was about to disagree with you strongly because i think that conventions Conventions can be really, really welcoming places. And often there will be new people and you're like, yeah, come on. And, you know, you'll almost adopt people for the convention. Go through, take them to various things, tell them the various parties they should go to, give them the lay of the land, say, oh, that's Jack Siegel coming to the microphone, let me tell you about Jack, right? And, you know, the personalities that are all in the party. um
Corey
11:19
um but then you did the pivot and i 100 agree like like that's a welcome do it my way listen to my things come under my wing approach uh and people love that in political parties it makes them feel like er insiders right like the ultimate people who know the ropes and and and that is manifested by sharing it with that next generation but you're right they're very hostile quite often to people who say i think we should do things different yeah i don't like this and then you'll get a lot of oh here we go and look at these people these upstarts who are coming and they don't understand all of this history that's been brought through it and
Corey
11:54
that is in some ways a reflection of the first thing we said about this which this tends to get the people who've been there a long time they're quite invested in the status quo however that status quo is manifested at this particular moment and the way people are talking about the party at that particular moment and it you know there really is a language and there are shibboleths that you have to be mindful of when you go to a party like that um but yeah it's it's not an unwelcoming event i wouldn't want anybody who's thinking i'd love to go to a party convention but i'm not sure if if i'll just be sitting in a corner and people will be flipping me the bird the whole time it's not gonna happen like people will act that has happened to me if
Corey
12:35
if you are not stephen carter but
Annalise
12:36
but talk to me cory it's a welcoming talk
Annalise
12:38
talk about the etiquette right for like those people listening who are like yeah this is my jam these are my people i want to go to a party convention like what's what's the etiquette what what should they know what walk walk me through this part
Corey
12:50
part of me says fuck etiquette right like just go in there and sort of do your thing but the reality is it's like being a good house guest anywhere it's it's being new to anything right you you observe a little bit more than you act at first you understand the beats you understand how people do things you understand what's proper and what's not proper which jokes are sort of self-effacing and appropriate and which jokes are just offside. And you slowly build up that understanding over time. True, not just to political parties, true of, you
Corey
13:19
you know, any group that you might join at any given time. And I think that's sort of the important note that you've pulled us to. You might be a member of a political party and you might think you understand the beats of the party.
Corey
13:31
Understanding the beats of the convention going crowd is like going through the next door and realizing there There's like a party within the party, and you've got a whole other set. It's the inner party. It's like your George Orwell 1984. It's
Corey
13:44
It's the inner party, and you're in there, and there are whole other kind of ways to act. And by the way, some of them, actively contradictory. How do you act in the outside party, right? The things that you say so faithfully and strongly, and like you're a true believer, a lot more cynicism on the inside party.
Annalise
14:02
Carter, would you agree with that inner party description? Oh, yeah. Because,
Carter
14:05
you know, I mean, everywhere
Carter
14:07
everywhere you go, there's cliques, right? And this is essentially just cliques. So, you know, there'll be age cliques, you know, so the people who came up together, there'll be regional cliques, there'll be ideological cliques. All of these different cliques will exist within the party and they will be united by certain things. But there will also be animosities that go back 30 years, right? People will still be pissed about Kretchen. literally young
Corey
14:32
young liberal presidencies that were fought you know 20 years ago they're still being litigated to this day yeah
Carter
14:38
yeah because you know this person didn't do it on you know up front way and if if
Carter
14:43
if they had then this other person would have won and you
Carter
14:46
you know it's the fucking junior party president or the regional representative from alberta and you know people are still pissed about it and if you you know so you kind of got to be mindful you know you don't it's not like Anybody's going to get really angry, but just be aware that when you go from clique to clique, if you're hanging out with the folks from Alberta and suddenly you're hanging out from the folks from British Columbia, there might be differences in the way that they approach their party. They may think of you a little bit differently if you're identifying as one of those different cliques. You're in high school again. Welcome back to high school, and it's the exact same thing.
Annalise
15:26
Okay, but is it worthwhile? Like, I don't, again, I've been to one in my life. I feel like you're not selling it for that part. Like, is it a worthwhile thing? Would you encourage people who are interested in a party who are interested in politics to go experience a convention? No,
Corey
15:40
No, no, no. Hold on. I need to know what you did at the convention and whether you thought it was worthwhile. Yeah,
Corey
15:46
I'll tell you something. The last convention I went to as like a proper delegate, voting delegate. It's been a while. I've been an observer for a few since. I don't know if I went to a single vote. I don't know if I went to a single debate on the floor. I did the hung out in the halls and saw my friends thing. And so was that worthwhile? I mean, I don't know. It depends on your thoughts on it. did i change the course of the party fucking
Corey
16:10
fucking probably not you know uh conventions can be very different for very different people like what did you do at the one convention you well i
Annalise
16:19
i was a staffer so it was like oh that doesn't count even
Annalise
16:23
it doesn't okay but that was my first convention experience right so it's like hey all staff you need to be here you need to be in these rooms for these votes like you're
Carter
16:31
you're just gonna get
Carter
16:32
that sort of thing yeah
Corey
16:33
yeah it's such a different yeah like you're that's a job that's a job yeah that's so painful
Annalise
16:37
painful that's the only time i've been oh
Carter
16:40
i've been i've gone as a carter
Annalise
16:42
carter how many conventions have you been to oh
Carter
16:44
oh i don't even know
Carter
16:46
not dozens no not i mean to be honest i try and avoid them uh why because everybody's going to come up to me and uh they're going there i'm going to be treated very differently and it can vent in that political sense in that political environment then i want to be treated um i'm either going to be uh
Carter
17:06
uh treated like i am some sort of really high person right really high status person or i am going to be the shit that someone scraped off of their shoe and there is like no in between for me so i can't go into a convention anonymously and just kind of meet some new people um
Carter
17:23
um any political convention i'm going to go to it's going to have it's
Carter
17:27
it's going to have a hangover effect people are going to judge so and
Carter
17:31
and keep in mind a lot of these conventions that i've I've gone to, I've done things like training people. I've told people what the demands are of them. I've told people, you know, I've, I've been working with a leadership candidate.
Carter
17:42
That's just not a normal experience of the, uh,
Carter
17:47
uh, the, I'm not a normal member. I don't have a constituency association I belong to. Right. I'm not like,
Carter
17:55
like, I do politics a lot differently than, a person who's a member of the party does politics and my politics isn't better or worse it's just different i'm just not
Carter
18:07
not involved in like i if i was ever involved in constituency level politics i'd probably kill somebody um
Corey
18:15
i just couldn't or be killed i
Carter
18:16
i would probably be killed i would be real so
Annalise
18:20
so cory you've been as like that you know political keener who no
Annalise
18:25
no one is forcing you to go you're not being paid to go you've been in that oh
Corey
18:28
oh yeah many times i i don't i i'm sure i've been to dozens of conventions national conventions probably fewer than a dozen because they only happen every so often if you're a member of one political party right but um certainly
Corey
18:42
certainly many many conventions i've i've organized them as a staffer i've attended them as a say a riding president i was you know riding president for the liberal party of canada i've been um uh you know i've I've been like a member of the regional executive and attended these things, and I've just been an elected delegate to
Corey
19:02
to these things as well, as well as also being an organizer on leadership campaigns before. So I've worn different hats and done different conventions in different ways. More recently, I've also gone as an observer, you know, where I just sort of take in stock of all of these things, see some of my old friends from the party days, but don't necessarily have to, you know, be wearing like the cape or anything like that. Yeah.
Corey
19:22
And, you know, there's not very many versions of the convention I don't like. But the reason I was coming down kind of hard on you is it is very different when you're working a convention.
Corey
19:32
And that is when you're sort of expected to be at certain places and do certain things. And you're being stage managed because the stage manager is trying to get certain outcomes. And that kind of pulls us back to the, you know, the government, the party of the day, using it as a media event. And so while a lot of us are running around having fun, getting free drinks in the Laurier Lounge, whatever it may be, there's a lot of other people who are trying to make sure that to the outside world, this looks like a group with its shit together, that is saying something desirable to Canadians that is going to then provide benefits moving forward. And the two activities are not entirely unrelated, because you've got your faithful together, they're seeing the most recent version of the story with the new logos of the day, perhaps, and all of that. And then they then go back and they carry that story to their various regions and the volunteers they're working with. And so like, I do want to come back to the point of a convention can be many things to many people, right? It doesn't have one objective. And it serves many of them quite well, and quite admirably. So
Annalise
20:37
So talk to me about that, kind of what you're speaking about, Corey, but in the context of policy resolutions. And I think the media piece, right, in the kind of preview stories about this convention and the ones about the UCP convention, like that's what media focused on. You know, here are some controversial policy things that will be debated. And I don't recall specifics of the one I was at, but that was where it's like, hey, get to these rooms because we need these votes because this needs to be defeated because it's going to be bad in media. Like, talk to me about that. yeah
Corey
21:05
yeah i mean policy from a staffer point of view from an organizer from a party point of view is just a threat like that's it there is not any upside to policy because if you want to do something and you're the leader you just fucking do it you don't need a resolution of your of your party where it becomes newsworthy and by challenging by default is when the party does something controversial or contentious or even takes up a matter that's controversial or contentious We've talked about this, I'm sure, in the past, although I can't remember why. The first line of defense is sort of the party organizers arranging the schedule. So these things basically come up never or come up at times that are advantageous to the organizers. And so they can be voted down easily. And then the second line of defense is, you know, just whipping it, having the votes, making sure that there's enough people that you can drag from the halls. And I can't count the number of conventions I've been at, even as one of those kind of like standby delegates, where somebody has just basically yanked me, who knows me, and said, like, we need you in here right now to vote. And I can think of multiple times I've been in a hall, chatting with somebody, drinking, had that tap on the shoulder, gone in, raised my card, not even knowing what I'm raising my card for. This is back in the day of cards before electronic voting. And then just gone back out and finished my drink. I mean, there's a lot of things going on at a convention at any given time.
Annalise
22:26
Carter, jump in on the policy stuff.
Carter
22:28
Well, and I think we have to take a half a step back and just kind of remember how these policies come. It is the right of every constituency and in every party to kind of put together their own policy amendments
Carter
22:40
amendments or their own policy proposals that then come to the party. And this is the supposed
Carter
22:47
supposed democratic right of the organization, except we don't run political parties like that anymore. more we don't run you
Carter
22:54
you know there is no grassroots democracy that that lends itself towards well this is what the outcome is going to be the uh the party has spoken we are therefore going to follow this policy piece so because
Carter
23:06
because it's also leader-centric the leader him or herself is making the policy decision um so when
Carter
23:15
when it serves the leader it's great to have the grassroots support I mean, fantastic. Let's get as much as we can. But when it's not serving the leader, when it's offside from the leader's direction or what the pollsters are telling the senior party apparatus, this is why I have so much friction. I'm more often the person who's the senior party apparatus that's saying, well,
Carter
23:36
well, shit, we can't do that. That's fucking stupid. You know, we wouldn't win a vote north of the Red Deer River. We wouldn't, you know, whatever the situation might be.
Carter
23:48
you know, of course, with my level of tact and diplomacy. diplomacy uh it
Carter
23:55
really wasn't a laugh finish that
Corey
23:58
it kind of my
Carter
24:00
my level of tact and diplomacy i i tend to walk into the rooms and just say are you fucking kidding me and apparently that's not welcome um and that's hostile so you
Carter
24:11
you know this is this is why we drag people like cory and you know get plime with enough alcohol and we get the choices that we want
Corey
24:20
wasn't drunk to be clear in this scenario in
Corey
24:24
moment probably 30 minutes after i was yeah
Corey
24:27
look i i think it's worth noting parties know that the policy process is a fucking liability and i mentioned some of the steps that occur around there in order to to sort of manage it once it's to hit the paper but in general the processes of parties have designed to filter out the controversial the way it tends to work is like up votes minus down votes or or something like that and so you end up with these kind of banal motherhood statements that don't really mean anything at all and that's the kind of policy parties love you know like be it resolved that the conservative party of canada believes everybody should have the right to own a cat or a dog as they see fit uh you know endorsed
Corey
25:10
endorsed by x and and those are the kinds of things that tend to through the prioritization process come forward because they're not objectionable and the processes are designed to kick the objectionable out or down the order paper but
Corey
25:24
but party members particularly those who are um maybe one side out of that cynical inner inner party right their expectation is as party members as party faithfuls who have put money forward like Like they get to have a say in the advancement of the party. And Dan Arnold, who was the pollster for Justin Trudeau for many years, very good friend of ours, he and I used to often go to conventions together and he would often be my convention roommate back in the day. And we had this general joke about the policy, like it's passed. And if this policy is passed, that means it will be put in a binder and put on the shelf in an office somewhere that a leader has, right? right? Like, leaders have been pretty clear for a long time that they will disregard policies that are unpopular. You know, the leader will outright just say, no, we're not doing that. And I think that happened as recently as this most recent, Jason Kenney did it with the UCP at one point. And so the policy process is not, it's
Corey
26:27
it's not where policy comes from. It
Corey
26:29
It is something that ties in pretty closely to the media moment though what
Annalise
26:34
the young people what about the young people what about the youth like kind of if you're just as you're describing and kind of a couple questions i'll i'll throw you here but as you're describing the atmosphere and the stories and the vibe and this and that it sounds like you may be more white-haired people than young people so a couple questions like
Annalise
26:52
like is it how important is it to have those young people and for let's say there's some young person listening who's like, Oh, darn, I thought I could get involved in my constituency association and have an impact on policy. And I'm now hearing no, like, do you want to walk through your talk to me about the youth, Corey?
Corey
27:10
I mean, any convention is going to have a major youth contingent. Traditionally, they have lower convention fees. Traditionally, their constituency associations will fundraise for them, pay their fees, maybe even pay their flights out, maybe even and help pay for their hotels. And so there are always many, many young people at a convention. And I am firmly of the opinion that that's where a lot of the energy comes from in any political party, right? And these are the up and comers. These are the people who are going to be running that party at some point. And you get a lot of old people who have the time and the ability to go to the class reunion, right? What you don't see a lot of necessarily at a convention, you see a dip, right? You don't see a lot of people my age. You don't see a bunch of 40 year olds with a job and three kids that they're trying to get through school because it's a big time commitment we're talking on a thursday evening this convention started today so you're missing thursday you're missing friday you're missing saturday you're missing sunday and there you go you've been murdered by your spouse because you've been gone for four days drinking with your buddies right yeah and and so uh you know it's it's probably and you know when i'm older maybe i'll be back at conventions like that right but the um you know the gap is not the young people
Corey
28:19
There's always strategies and contingents. It's middle-aged people.
Annalise
28:24
Okay. And Carter, what would you say to that young person who wants to make a difference on policy? Honestly, what would you honestly say to them?
Carter
28:34
What would I honestly say to them? I think that the best way to really understand this is to recognize the various levels of politics that exist. This idea that everything comes from the grassroots, it's just naive. Figure out where the senior levels are. Figure out how to get up the ladder.
Carter
28:58
The ways up the ladder are to work on leadership campaigns, to work in regional campaigns. And each step,
Carter
29:06
there's, you know, there's little gatekeepers to everything. I mean, sometimes it's hard to get in, but I've found that the way to get into these things is to give freely of your time and to, you know, showcase your abilities. um and when you start doing that you get different policy access because now instead of having a policy discussion um
Carter
29:31
you know in the in the room with 600 people you're having a policy discussion in the um in
Carter
29:37
in the leader's office and that policy discussion has just tremendous much more weight um because you helped elect that leader like if cory was ever successful electing one of those leaders, he would have had significant impact on the policy itself.
Annalise
29:54
Carter, that was a much politer answer than the last time I asked you to speak directly to a young person, and you called them a dildo. Those
Carter
30:05
You know, you're going to hold that over my head for how long? One time I called the children dildos. One time.
Annalise
30:12
Corey, you wanted to say something to the youth.
Corey
30:15
Yeah, to the youth.
Corey
30:17
Look, I think that there are long arcs to these things. And as is already mentioned, the people who are the first convention goers today are the people who run this party tomorrow. And that's true, whether it's the liberals, New Democrats or conservatives. And I think back to, I'm going to name check him the second time, Dan Arnold, again, and he was, you know, I think, president of the University of Calgary Young Liberals back in the day. He
Carter
30:41
He was the only one. 2000s there
Corey
30:43
was a few uh but like uh but the the ufc young liberals put together a resolution to legalize marijuana i can't remember which convention this was but um it it kind of got onto the floor and did shockingly well like i think it passed if i'm not mistaken and it was one of those big contentious policy things oh my god can you believe this went forward oh my god can you believe can you believe and at the time it was something that the party was pretty eager to disavow or think about but you know what you
Corey
31:14
didn't have to fast forward all that long you know 15 years less less than 15 years later that was not just the policy of the party that was passed as official policy of the liberals in 2012 um it was the you know policy of the country and cannabis was legalized of course by the the current liberal government so you know these things do they do kind of steer the ship in a gradual sense and maybe like i would say i don't think that that policy convention it like it reflected a sentiment change and it and it engaged people on an issue and it moved it forward and uh well the policy didn't then become like the policy of the liberals going forward and all of that it was kind of a uh you know people got involved on the issue and they move forward so these things do move they just take a time to move sometimes and certainly you don't want to go to a convention thinking we pass this policy and it's done it's it right like that doesn't really happen well
Carter
32:09
well and plus dan arnold the stoner wound up working in the prime minister's office which is very
Carter
32:14
very impressive for him i mean good for you you you stoned out metalhead or
Corey
32:19
or whatever you i just want to uh you know ask dan not to sue us that
Corey
32:25
was steven that wasn't me cory
Annalise
32:26
cory that was a nice inspirational story about how youth can make a difference i liked it do you remember at the time though if that like the back to that media policy kind of tug
Annalise
32:36
tug award that we're talking about? Like, was that a big, look
Annalise
32:39
look at these crazy liberals, look what they approved at their convention. That was a big media story at the time.
Corey
32:44
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we, we forget how quickly public sentiment moved on that particular issue here. And, and, you know, it was probably making staffers pull their hair out back in the day. Because that's, that's sort of the challenge. But I will say media is also sort sort of conditioned to say oh we got a convention coming up let's look through the policy books and let's see the wackiest shit and
Corey
33:06
and often a lot of the things they latch on to are not likely to go too far yeah
Carter
33:12
yeah never real they're sure the delegates are talking about them someone from spruce grove you know came up with this wacky idea um but it's not going to go anywhere i mean it's cyril turton he's not going to get anything across the line to
Annalise
33:27
to cory's point just wait 15 years and And it might happen, Carter. Just wait 15
Corey
33:32
could even happen for you, Searle. 15 years. Come on, not for
Corey
33:35
for Searle. Come on. Well, not for Searle. Let's
Annalise
33:37
Let's talk about some specifics with this party convention. So it's in Quebec City. Do you want to talk about when you're doing a national convention, how important, if at all, location is?
Carter
33:51
You know, how many times have we had the liberals come to Calgary because they're really going to start to show off? I mean, you go to places where you need attention, where you need to feel like you've got an opportunity. This choice is not random. It wasn't done on a, where can we get the best deal at the Holiday Inn? This was done because it fits a political objective. objective and you know it might be a little bit more expensive to get the delegates there but the delegates understand they're paying a little bit more in airfare they're going and traveling a little bit longer because ultimately they want their party to be in government and to be in government that means that they're going to need you
Carter
34:28
you know a little bit more lift in Quebec and oh my goodness we're really going to show Quebec
Carter
34:33
Quebec the house how important they are because Because we're all drinking
Carter
34:37
drinking and going down to, you
Carter
34:41
you know, to the peelers together. I don't know. I made that
Corey
34:43
that part up. No one's ever
Carter
34:44
gone. Yeah, like that's good.
Corey
34:47
quasi true. There are different flavors of conventions with different emphasis. And conventions before elections are often in important places where you're trying to showcase strength and build organization. Conventions after elections or in the doldrums are often just in Ottawa, right? You know, it's like it's there. it's easy for the party to put on it's logistically not very taxing you go there you go to toronto you go to vancouver simple you know turnkey big convention montreal for the liberals always a very popular location and um and and so really i think that is one of the considerations like it is it is showy to get everybody to a place like uh say winnipeg if you think you're going going to make a splash in winnipeg it
Corey
35:31
it is expensive i mean
Carter
35:33
mean come on it's
Corey
35:34
it's logistically taxing it's logistically taxing to kind of move your whole apparatus out in that particular fashion so uh you don't you don't do it necessarily every every time and you sort of pick the moments that you're going to make a bigger show of a convention what
Annalise
35:48
what about provincial um elections also i don't know cory if you notice when you're talking when you said ottawa carter had like the longest largest just yawn i've ever seen him have terrible
Annalise
36:00
what about provincial though do you like
Annalise
36:02
like alberta for example do you go well we have people in calgary and edmonton let's meet in the middle and red deer and hotels are cheaper that happens
Corey
36:09
happens so much how many times
Corey
36:11
times that's the tragedy that is alberta oh
Corey
36:14
don't even think it's called the capri anymore is it it's
Carter
36:17
it's not called the capri but everybody knows that it's the capri everybody knows
Corey
36:20
knows exactly what i'm
Corey
36:22
Oh my God. I have gone to so many conventions at the Capri. Yeah, that's painful.
Corey
36:26
Not that there's anything wrong with the Capri. It's more like the variation is just not there. No,
Carter
36:30
No, there was a lot
Carter
36:31
wrong with the Capri.
Corey
36:33
I guarantee you, if you were to have this podcast with three strategists from any province, they would have like the idiosyncrasies of their province. And certainly in Alberta, our big one is the convention is in Calgary, it's in Edmonton, or if they want to make everybody miserable, it's in Red Deer. Like that's the choice, basically. basically. And very rarely they'll go to Lethbridge or Medicine Hat. That's kind of it. It's really tough to get people up to Grand Prairie or Fort McMurray. I'm sure if you talk to BC organizers, they'd be like, it's almost always in Vancouver, and then we'd go to these places. They're all going to have those idiosyncrasies, and they're all going to have kind of those shibboleths, right? And the things that they need to consider. But the simple reality is, when you're talking about a province, as much as we talk about regions when we talk about about alberta provincial politics region just matters so much less in a provincial context than it does in a national bilingual context yeah
Carter
37:29
remember going to whistler for a bc one that was fun i
Carter
37:33
i was a speaker
Annalise
37:35
you were good stuff yeah
Annalise
37:39
what about convention themes and i i want you guys to talk like do you who are the themes for is that like the media play I do remember any of the themes of conventions you've gone to and I'm really triple loading my questions tonight. What do you think of the theme this year for the federal conservative party convention of common sense? Well,
Carter
38:01
is the one we're going to remember forever. Hey, Corey, like this one, this one's really going to cut through.
Carter
38:05
I think we'll be talking about common
Carter
38:09
We're going to talk about it forever. I've
Carter
38:11
I've never, I don't remember a single thing. theme i don't believe that when i'm at period
Annalise
38:15
period or a single a single convention theme or you just don't remember i mean who
Carter
38:19
who cares right like they're they're they're fucking meaningless like
Carter
38:25
you you throw it together because you want to tell the media you want to i mean everything is shorthand right we're going to tell the media what we're doing uh you know tell them what we're going to do do
Carter
38:34
do it tell them what we did right like that
Annalise
38:36
that does like it does a lot of thought lot like is there a lot of conversations of like yeah sure convention coming up big time theme how is it 100 and
Annalise
38:46
yet i could not agree it's
Corey
38:47
it's so much i could not agree more strongly with steven i as you were asking the question i i was just i'm a guy who just told you i've been to dozens of conventions yeah
Corey
38:56
and i was thinking i don't
Annalise
38:57
don't know if i can think of
Corey
38:58
a single you know
Corey
39:00
know a single theme i'm sure i could i could like look in folders and find the answer to that but they're not very meaningful so is
Annalise
39:06
is that just a waste like you think of all that staff time that goes into what is our theme what is our brand like is that just a waste or in the moment it
Annalise
39:15
it matters and it sets narrative and it changes direction it
Carter
39:19
couldn't be more useless i'm
Corey
39:21
i'm gonna make the opposite argument i'm gonna make the argument that this is actually a somewhat useful exercise if if only accidentally why
Carter
39:28
why would you make the wrong argument like why would you argue the wrong wrong side well
Corey
39:33
well here's the thing about tentpole communications is it it holds up the rest of the tent it's an opportunity for you to say this is what we're going to be talking about for the next bit this is the lens through which we are going to discuss these issues these are the feelings we want to leave people with we in this case want to leave people with the sense that the conservatives are a party of common sense justin trudeau says we're out there we're radicals you don't know know we're common sense right and so it it kind of hones the political conversation internally in a useful way that you can then use it to push out externally and does the theme of the convention matter not at all but
Corey
40:10
but the work that went into it you know that's an end product but the underlying work that informed that that is going to inform the communications activities across the board super useful and it is an attempt and an opportunity to kind of pilot some of these these things and test some of these words and look at these phrases in ways that that may or may not have resonance and you start to get a sense of that with your internal audience and you start to get a sense of that with your external audience as well cory
Annalise
40:38
cory have you been in those rooms creating those themes oh
Corey
40:41
oh yeah yeah for sure
Annalise
40:42
sure you don't you don't remember any of them i
Corey
40:44
i mean i've i've actually more
Corey
40:46
more than a handful of themes i have done myself like i have those things and i don't remember what my themes were for those particular things i remember the alberta liberal party had one once that was politics reimagined where we brought in like kind of the open member vote system that was ultimately also adopted at the federal level that's the only one i could remember i think without actually going back to my files and prompting carter
Annalise
41:09
carter are there any themes like you just remember zero zero themes ever i'm
Carter
41:15
i'm still struggling with cory's uh you know this is really important kind of stuff like what the fuck sure yeah a tentpole um you know we're common sense part whatever like what the fuck are you talking about cory this is not a tentpole this is a you know it's it's the same as a slogan everybody said oh we got to have a good slogan no you don't slogans don't win elections brands win elections like what cory's trying to say what cory should be saying is
Carter
41:43
is that brands are important in politics and if to the degree that you can use the the convention to establish your brand you should do that but by saying that you're doing the common sense event like come
Carter
41:55
come on that's not helping them okay
Annalise
41:57
okay to that end and i'll throw something else and then cory you can respond um what about logos do logos win elections do you guys like the new logo what what do we think of the new logo that was unveiled at the convention today
Corey
42:11
here's the thing about that i mean okay so the conservatives have a new logo it's not not materially different it's still a sea with a maple leaf in it the maple leaf is no longer kind of at a 45 degree angle there's this little almost like hill in front of the maple leaf in the concerted thing the sea is a little bit uh daintier like it's not as thick uh it just you know the the original logo or not the original the logo last time was created by Aaron O'Toole it was supposed to kind of you know hearken back to the military the air force the roundel right right? So it's like kind of a variation on it. It's a modification of it. Does it matter? No, not really. I think that political parties obsess about logos to an unhealthy degree. This is my version of the complaint that Stephen has about convention themes. For most Canadians, when they think of the brand of a political party, it's not defined by the logo. It's defined by the policies that they have. It's defined, if you want to get more into kind of the aesthetics of it, it's the color you know you could ask a hundred people on the street what's
Corey
43:16
what's the conservative party logo and you could give them like a lineup of 10 and you're i think you're basically going to get 10 of them pick the right one and that will be random chance if
Corey
43:25
if you ask them what are the what's the color of the conservative party red or blue or orange almost 100 will say it's blue right so like even kind of from an aesthetic point of view i think they they sort of forget at what their actual real brand is.
Corey
43:39
But again, it's like, I'm
Corey
43:42
I'm going to use an example I've used in other contexts, I don't think ever on the podcast, right? But when you work in marketing, one of the first things that you want to do is you want to establish very firmly a market position. And a market position is not a slogan. A market position is not the thing that's going to be in the ad. A market position is a very succinct way to speak to your value proposition in a way that you can then communicate it internally so that everybody knows what the hell you're doing and you want like a hundred percent clarity across all stakeholders this is what we do here right and so famously snickers has one i'm going from memory here so it might not be 100 accurate amongst you know among snackers snickers is uh you know is the um is the one on the go because it's full of peanuts it's packed with peanuts it gives you energy right so they basically said our our market position is that we are going to be like high energy caloric for snackers on the go move. And when you have something like that defined, it
Corey
44:42
it answers kind of all of your other communications questions for you in ways that you probably don't even appreciate, right? You think about Snickers. Well, Snickers sells like more King size candy bars than most because it's, it's actually marketed towards people who are looking for energy on the go, right? right? You think about Snickers, and you think about its logo. It's a shitty logo, objectively, but it really reinforces the idea that it's really crammed in, and it's tough. It's packed with something, and it answers the questions even of product packaging. Of course, it answers the questions of where you sell the thing, because it's on the go. You don't sit down and buy a Snickers, like, I'm just going to have one of those at home. No, you have them at convenience You have them at the places where people are looking for those high calorie foods. And it seems obvious, but it only seems obvious because they made those decisions and it feels natural. Political parties are not very different. So they go through all of this work, they understand their market position, and then they do a bunch of things that underwhelm us, like say their convention is called Common Sense. Their logo is a fairly staid blue C with a red maple leaf in it. But these are coming from a place of market position if they're done well. And I actually think the conservative case, there's some evidence that that's exactly what they're doing. They're saying that we are the sensible middle-of-the-road people. This is the market position they are now trying to carve out for themselves. Not a wild logo, super boring.
Corey
46:09
Common sense, you know, not the scary radicals that Justin Trudeau is marketing us as here. And, you know, even the way Pierre Polyev has tried to rebrand himself as, oh, shucks, I'm just a family man, you know, not a career politician and all of that.
Corey
46:23
It's pretty clear to me they've done that legwork. They know who they want to be. And that is going to show up in all sorts of communications products over the next bit. And we don't need to be overwhelmed by it to appreciate the workmanlike quality effort that's gone on behind it.
Annalise
46:39
Corey, do you know who Snickers is quite popular with? Outdoors people.
Corey
46:43
Snickers. Do you know why? Packed with peanuts. High-calorie
Annalise
46:48
That's really good information.
Annalise
46:51
gave us a lot of info there. Would you like to respond, or do you want to tell us your thoughts on the Common Sense theme and the logo? I thought
Carter
47:01
thought I'd pick up by
Carter
47:02
by kind of giving the strategist example of what our brand position is.
Carter
47:06
Fellows. Serious information from serious people.
Carter
47:12
and that's been our brand position from day one and
Carter
47:16
and we're really living it hey cory i
Corey
47:22
i mean i i i've always felt that about us that's and you can see that in our marketing materials right we have the chess pieces we have the high quality music at the start of the episode you know that that kind of like classical feel i
Corey
47:34
i thought that people
Annalise
47:35
really appreciate super serious yeah
Carter
47:39
well of course i mean lots
Carter
47:41
lots of serious thought has gone into that merch we're living the brand is what i'm trying to get across we're living the brand um
Annalise
47:49
just last i'm this is like a full zane 47 minutes on part yeah you
Carter
47:53
you okay like what's going on last
Annalise
47:54
last question then we'll move into the lightning round speeches um tell me talk to me about party convention speeches Tomorrow, Friday, Polyev will give his big speech. Again, is this for the members? Is this for the media? What will you be watching for in the speech? What would you advise him on? Talk to me about speeches. Stephen Carter, we'll start with you. They
Carter
48:18
They are redoing, Corey was quite right. They are resetting their brand. I mean, we'd heard from, you know, friends of ours in the Conservative Party that Pierre Polyev would walk back some of the things that he was doing in the leadership race to try and win back, you know, Canadians. And that, you
Carter
48:34
you know, didn't happen right away, but it seems like it's happening now. now um
Carter
48:37
um so i'll be watching to
Carter
48:40
to see the response from the
Carter
48:43
team you know from the group of people who who support him do
Carter
48:47
do they support this move um towards mainstream to try and bring it back my
Carter
48:52
my answer is probably going to be yeah they probably will because most of the people in that room know what it takes to win they're they're they're they're going to be looking uh to win the election, not just to kind of be involved in the election. And, you
Carter
49:07
you know, this group of people, I mean, yeah, it's for media, the speech, but it's also to have people walking away saying, gosh, that Pierre Polyev, he sure knows how to, he sure knows how to speak. He's such a great speaker. You know, that's a big part of it too. Everybody gets to walk away saying, wow, that was that was just exactly what we needed. He did a great job. And that, I mean, you're never going to find a better audience than you find at the convention.
Carter
49:38
Corey, talk to me about speeches.
Corey
49:41
Yeah, I think in many ways, the delegates there are not the audience for a primetime leader's speech. They are a prop. They are the people who applaud when they're supposed to applaud. applaud and they applaud louder than any reasonable human being ever would. It's also a truism that a political party speech is basically the only type of speech you can go to where they give you a standing ovation at the start of a speech, right? Like it's just, it's a different crowd. The crowd knows what they're there to do and they're going to do it. The speech itself is part of the communications exercise of it all. The only real exceptions would be like at a a leadership convention where you're actually trying to win over the crowd and your speech is actually designed to get the crowd to do something. But otherwise, the leader rightly is not focused on trying to win a room that they've already won. They're trying to win a province. They're trying to win a country. They're trying to win elections. And so it's the opportunity again to get the messages out in a tentpole sense. It's usually the new stump speech, right? You will have the new brand behind it. You'll have the glasses-free Pierre Polyev up there. He's going to say the messages they've tested over the summer, the ways that they are going to make Justin Trudeau look small and Pierre Polyev look big. And it's not for the people in the room. If it was for the people in the room, it'd
Corey
51:04
it'd be pretty fucking crazy. And that would actually be true of, I think, most political parties, because the political faithful don't tend to reflect the general population and so it is triangulated outside it is also a signal though to the people in the room that that is the message he expects them to carry as well is
Annalise
51:21
is there anything specific you'll be looking for in uh in palio's speech tomorrow you
Corey
51:26
you know i've been thinking about this and the one thing that i think would be fascinating
Corey
51:32
i i'm looking for how he addresses climate change i'm looking for the conservatives to actually say something about climate change And I'm not saying it's got to be big, but I'm seeing if he's actually going to cross that bridge and try to resolve what I think is probably his biggest risk, right? Which is that an issue that is hitting tops of charts, he has no answers for. Now, Justin
Corey
51:52
Justin Trudeau has a problem too.
Corey
51:54
Issue that is top of charts, housing, Canadians think he has no answers for. So maybe the two will kind of atomize each other and it won't matter. matter. But if Pierre Polyev can shore up that weakness, that sort of disqualifier for so many people, I mean, his 14-point lead could become even bigger. We could be talking about potential conservative majority government.
Annalise
52:14
Oh, I think we are.
Annalise
52:15
Carter, what will you be keeping
Annalise
52:17
keeping an eye out for?
Carter
52:20
Well, I mean, I think that Corey's made a really interesting observation with climate
Carter
52:24
change. I'm not convinced that they will see a specific comment on climate change, but it will will be interesting to see what, uh, what does soften, right? What, what language is used? I mean, is he going to continue, will he continue to call Justin Trudeau a Marxist, you know, like will he, or will he kind of, you know, take a more, uh, mature approach to leadership, uh, which we've not yet seen from Pierre Pelliev. He remains kind of this, um, immature,
Carter
52:54
kind of, you know, jester
Carter
52:56
jester of a, of a leader. Um, so how does he take that jester position and turn it into something that appeals beyond his base? And will he use this opportunity to do it? I agree with Corey. I think this is the, uh, a great time to do it. Uh, I just don't expect to see him suddenly talking about climate change. I think he's going to whiff
Carter
53:18
whiff because ultimately I I think he's that soft a leader.
Corey
53:23
But let's be clear, like it's September 8th, this speech is going to happen. It's not an election year in
Corey
53:30
all likelihood. It's always possible, but it's not likely.
Corey
53:34
This is not the kind of thing that's going to be performance television or, sorry, like attendance television for people where they've got to sit down and see this. So it's as much for the media to say, oh, this is the new Pierre Polyev and reinforce enforce that message of he's had a great summer and he's rebranded and look who he is and carry and form inform their views of what pierre pauliev has become as it is the general public like the general public has been reintroduced to pierre pauliev not through a convention speech but through the advertisements and and through some of the media that they've earned over the summer so um like i don't want to overstate it either and say like oh this is like this is not Not like an inaugural speech, a commencement, an acceptance speech, anything like that, which doesn't mean it's not important.
Annalise
54:21
Good clarification. Guys, let's leave it there and move into our lightning round. Rapid Fire, Stephen Carter, what's the best convention you've ever been to?
Carter
54:29
Leadership convention where Jim Prentiss lost to Peter McKay.
Carter
54:36
that the best? Or 2004.
Carter
54:39
It just had a tremendous amount of energy. it was it felt like it was for the future of the party it was for the future of the party was for the vision of the party um it was dynamic
Carter
54:49
dynamic it was close it was exciting i had a big role uh it was a lot of i was unknown at that time too which helped uh it was it was it was kind of like my first foray on the big stage it was really fun unknown
Annalise
55:05
unknown at that point cory hogan what what's your your best convention uh
Corey
55:09
uh 2006 in montreal liberal party of canada leadership convention uh dion won on well dion won and i was a dion lieutenant i worked for the dion campaign i was you know in charge of communications for alberta and saskatchewan and i was chief whip for alberta and we weren't supposed to win and so winning is thrilling winning when you're not supposed to win is thrilling but also bigger than that it was the last in my opinion the last great delegated convention in canadian history it had thousands and thousands of people um you know it was unbelievable how packed both the palais de congre was and also montreal more generally and um it was just it was just such a such a ride such a rush the entire way through and you'll keep in mind that that was the convention that had like 10 people running for liberal leader and you saw all of these amazing things happen over time as like sentiments shifted and that shirts people People were wearing changed. And on the final day, Dion, his whole team shows up in green shirts for the first time. Everyone's been wearing red the entire weekend. It was quite a play. It was quite a throw.
Corey
56:16
It sure wasn't my idea, but it was amazing. And because you saw like the momentum over the day as more and more people wore green until green was a majority in the convention hall. And just there were a ton of moments like that. Like the whole convention was the next level. It was really quite something. something
Carter
56:32
fascinating to me that we both picked the last delegated conventions for our respective teams yeah
Corey
56:39
think so too yeah
Corey
56:41
yeah i mean there's just really nothing like a true delegated convention nowadays they have quote-unquote delegates but even the ones that have like by writing it'll be like oh we'll just slot you in in your neighbor's writing you know everybody can come it's fine uh it
Corey
56:54
it didn't used to be that way you used to have to fight like i had i stood for election to be a delegate there you know i was outside the voting station for my writing association and there were like a lot of people who voted like hundreds and hundreds if not over a thousand and i was basically hustling for votes the entire day to get to be a delegate and um
Corey
57:14
it's just not like that anymore it's not and it builds the
Carter
57:17
the party at the grass go
Annalise
57:19
go back so good oh yeah they go back to that way yeah absolutely
Corey
57:23
i don't know i mean i don't know they we've we've had this conversation before there are pros and cons of basically all of these models the very legitimate criticism of that old model was how closed off and gatekeeped it kept it was right like it was it was not always great if you were on the outside and i can think of times
Corey
57:41
when i was on the outside too but um you know it it certainly made you have skin in the game there was an expectation you sort of pay your dues i
Corey
57:52
i you know i don't want to sound like some old man railing against a modern world but i do feel like party membership now comes with a certain entitlement
Corey
58:01
entitlement like people think well i'm a party member i paid my five dollars i get to tell you what the policy should be
Corey
58:08
mean it it did it never used to work like that if you said that in like the late 90s it would be like sit down shut the fuck up right like you know go out sell memberships build an organization get some stuff done and just like we didn't pretend everybody's view matter equally again
Corey
58:26
again there's some downside there right i don't want to pretend otherwise but it really did have a different dynamic at that particular moment i
Corey
58:33
i would say this entire episode has made me deeply nostalgic for conventions and i'm looking forward to finding an excuse to go to one now uh
Annalise
58:41
uh last lightning round question stephen carter what is the worst convention you've ever been to and why oh
Carter
58:48
oh my god um it was the oh
Corey
58:51
bet you i know the answer to this one the
Carter
58:52
the sandra jansen one where we got driven
Carter
58:54
out by the catholic kids pulling up in buses jason kenney versus uh sandra
Carter
59:01
sandra jansen what year was that cory he was um
Corey
59:06
be like locked it out 16 2016
Carter
59:10
horrible oh my god all
Carter
59:12
all these like catholic school kids pulling up to vote on abortion access it was just oh made you sick And then the way they treated Sandra. Holy shit. It was the worst, worst experience in politics, I think.
Annalise
59:27
Corey Hogan, what is your worst convention and why?
Corey
59:31
I mean, my actual answer would probably be some sad regional party convention, right? I don't, I mean, there's just so many of those. But if you're going to talk national conventions, I think probably the one that I look least fondly on was the one that coronated Michael Ignatyev. I think it was in Vancouver, because it felt like so, like,
Corey
59:52
like, here we are, we're doing this thing, nobody cares. And, you know, and
Corey
59:56
and that's kind of a bad energy to bring into all of it there. But, you know, even that there are no bad conventions, there are just bad convention goers, you can have a fun time, even during a shit show of a convention. I'm serious, like, in some ways, the shit show conventions can be the most fun, because that's when like the everybody's, you know, time
Carter
1:00:15
having a party absolutely cory
Annalise
1:00:16
cory is such a convention keener that's the one big thing i've learned from this episode such a key because there's
Carter
1:00:22
there's a shit ton of alcohol i mean i think we need to be really clear about why
Annalise
1:00:26
why cory doesn't drink what
Corey
1:00:33
yeah i got three kids i mean what else am i gonna do no
Corey
1:00:35
no i mean i don't drink very much i
Annalise
1:00:39
we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1097 of the strategist i'm your host annalise clingfield With you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.