Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1092. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and
Corey
0:08
and Corey Hogan. You say, as always, because that's the script, and we make you say that, but I've
Annalise
0:15
I've been gone for three
Annalise
0:16
I know, but we're together. We're
Annalise
0:18
We're reunited together again. Yeah,
Corey
0:20
Yeah, it's true. You
Annalise
0:22
You look relaxed from your vacation. I'm
Corey
0:24
I'm not. I was in a car crash. There was, you know, forest fires all around me. I had to camp last night. my god no it was awful you're
Corey
0:32
no it was intermittently fun intermittently fun which
Annalise
0:36
which part was too fun is what uh us outdoorsy people call that oh
Corey
0:42
yeah uh no i was i was on shoe swap lake i i had a boat i enjoyed that part of it i didn't enjoy when i drove the prop into the ground because it was record low water levels and then i had to pay 150
Corey
0:52
150 dollars for the but i
Corey
0:55
enjoyed the rest of it bad
Annalise
0:56
luck with things that you drive on this yeah
Corey
1:00
laurie my wife was saying maybe i should just stay away from motorized vehicles maybe it's uh maybe it's not my thing yeah
Corey
1:07
maybe i'm good at other things
Annalise
1:07
things you're good at
Annalise
1:09
lots of other things cory carter is also back looking relaxed i'm
Corey
1:13
i'm very and not
Corey
1:14
not good at other things so yeah a good point of three episodes
Carter
1:17
episodes while on vacation.
Corey
1:22
You can't call those episodes. You just can't. What do you mean? First of all, you have to post them in order.
Carter
1:27
order. One of them got posted properly
Carter
1:28
properly kind of after a little while. Congratulations. Yeah. Did
Carter
1:34
I figured out what I was doing wrong.
Annalise
1:35
wrong. It's nice of Corey to leave his vacation and save you. I think that the problem was instructing. There's like two steps.
Carter
1:41
No, there was more than two steps. It's
Corey
1:43
It's literally the thing you kept screwing up is like like post audio, upload audio, post. Like I don't, I'm actually amazed by the number of ways you screwed it up. I really did. It was
Carter
1:54
was pretty incredible. I told you, you were like, you can't possibly screw this up three times. And I did.
Annalise
2:02
You got cockier each time. Oh yeah. You would have no issues. And then there was no issues every time.
Carter
2:09
that is part of my charm. You
Carter
2:11
You know, 100% confidence in myself all
Annalise
2:15
yeah it must be nice steven carter i have
Corey
2:18
have lent it out to others we'll get it right
Carter
2:21
right remember like our
Carter
2:22
our good friend esmahan i've lent it to her if you need it just give me a call it's available
Carter
2:27
okay white man that's
Carter
2:31
he's gonna be mad at me because i forgot to turn off my uh my computer chimes hang on yeah
Corey
2:36
yeah i i already am so yeah hang on
Annalise
2:39
on okay are we should we
Annalise
2:41
talk talk about some stuff i
Corey
2:43
think so okay i think so i mean i'm
Corey
2:46
i'm desperate not to talk about this stuff anymore so yeah yeah
Annalise
2:49
yeah after your your vacation okay guys we've got we've got things to talk about um carter are you ready to talk are you you're not always ready you're
Carter
3:01
i i turned off the dinging i
Annalise
3:02
i want to talk and i'm focused
Annalise
3:05
okay i want to talk about um meta
Annalise
3:09
I know we talk about X, we talk about Twitter a lot on this podcast, but I want to talk about Meta and their ongoing news ban. So I don't know if you guys have noticed, but it seems to me like normal folks are starting to notice. It's been three weeks of not being able to share links on Instagram and Facebook on Meta. And people are talking about it, especially right now as our country is on fire and there's like news articles and things that people want to share um
Annalise
3:35
um so on friday the federal heritage minister demanded that meta
Annalise
3:41
stop the reckless ban on domestic news where
Annalise
3:44
where were these demands made you might wonder on
Annalise
3:47
on another social media platform on x so i want to talk to you guys about strategy here um both from kind of the political side but also maybe if you want to wade into it from the media company side um we're three weeks into this ban i know when we first talked about it we talked about australia where it only lasted for about a week um
Annalise
4:04
um and so let's uh let's
Annalise
4:07
let's let's jump into it cory what are what do you make you were on vacation i don't know how much news you were consuming the past few weeks uh but do you do you think people are waking up to the fact that like you can't share links on these social media sites yeah
Corey
4:21
yeah i think people are pretty aware of it at this point it was a bit of a slow burn in the lead up it was one of these things where people kept saying it's gonna happen It's going to happen. And I think there was some polling. I'm going to butcher it. I don't remember the exact numbers. But before it was passed, I think something like four in 10 Canadians said they were aware of it. And I'm quite sure that number rocketed up when it started affecting them personally on Instagram and on Facebook. Facebook. So yeah,
Corey
4:47
yeah, I think it's well known. I think one of the things that might surprise a few people is that not everybody does know about it still, which in some ways underlines Meta's argument that they're not really about sharing news. That's not what the sites are. That's not what they aspire to be. And so this is just like the theater of the absurd at this point. It actually drives me absolutely nuts. I do not support this bill by the federal government. I I think I've made that pretty clear on this. I think it was a bad idea executed poorly, as only they can do, right? So self-sure that they know the answers, that they're going to go in and do this thing. But here's what it gets down to.
Corey
5:28
The federal government now demanding news get back, on
Corey
5:32
on one hand, I sort of get it. It's a public emergency, and you want to be able to reach in any direction and grab a phone and have that phone give you some help, right? right? But, you know, asking an emergency for news to be free is not something we do for satellite radio, Sirius XM. We don't do it for cable television. That would be helpful. 24-hour news you don't get without a cable package. We don't do it for newspaper subscriptions or anything of the like, right? There's nothing inherently special about Facebook, in my opinion, that makes it a really great source for news. In fact, it seems like a pretty dangerous one because Facebook Facebook doesn't give it to you, you know, based on like the most recent thing. It's not chronological. It's based on engagement. So you might be looking at news from months ago, hours ago, for sure, days ago, most certainly. And can I tell you, as somebody who used to be a government official responsible for government communications, this was a real frustration. Like on social media, often the news people were looking at was not the news. And we always said in our social media posts, go here for the latest news. And we shared a site for it because we didn't actually want social media to be that source of truth, right? We wanted other people to go to the source of truth. And so let's bring us back to this whole story with Bill C-18 now and all of this.
Corey
6:48
It's nuts. It's nuts to me. The federal government said, you're making too much money on news is back, so we are going to force you, if you're going to carry news, to pay the news media. And they said, oh, then we're just not going to carry the news media. And
Corey
7:02
And now they're saying, how dare you not carry the news media? So here's my question for you. Was this a choice?
Corey
7:09
Because if this wasn't a choice, this whole bill is bullshit. Just tax them. Just fucking tax them. How hard is that? Tax them and distribute the money as you see fit. For God's sake, you already have a program to pay for news organizations here. Don't love that one either. But if that's your plan, just fucking tax them and use the money as you see fit. it this is government at its worst it's government at its absolute worst it's kafka s it's stupid
Corey
7:36
carter over to you for the wrong answer yeah
Annalise
7:38
yeah yeah carter jump in relax cory who's holy shit coming in hot uh
Annalise
7:46
listen yeah first first answer there wow um
Carter
7:51
um this isn't just you know these these aren't just apps anymore. These are utilities. And
Carter
7:56
And we use these as utilities. We use the internet as a utility.
Carter
8:00
We are getting closer and closer to a world where if you're going to exist in our world, you must have access to the internet. And having access to the internet isn't the same as just clicking on a dial-up service and using Archie to go and search for something.
Corey
8:18
Wow, that's a pull. That's a deep pull. Well, it was for you. Archie, for those uninitiated. Yeah, that's pre-World Wide Web search. That's go for it, right? Yeah, you're
Carter
8:27
you're welcome. But it's not like that anymore. You don't just get to dial up and hear your dial tones. I mean, this is now how we get information. And we nationalized a news service. We nationalized the CBC to ensure that we could get proper media coverage from around the country and that people would have access to it in places where they needed it. And that
Carter
8:49
that makes so much sense to me. I'm not one of those people who can understand what the conservatives are talking about when they say that we have to get rid of the CBC. The CBC is an essential service. And I would argue that
Carter
9:02
that having access currently to things like meta and other social media are lining up closer. I'm not going to go all the way yet, but they are lining up closer to an essential service than we ever imagined that they would. And now we're in the awkward moment, the same as we were in the awkward moment trying to figure out how to deal with private utilities before they became public utilities. Do we wish to turn this little private enterprise into a public enterprise in some fashion? And that does not necessarily mean that we have to go the way of the Alberta government and turn everything into Dynalife. This can be a
Carter
9:43
regulatory solution. It can be any different type of solution. And I'm not opposed, Corey,
Carter
9:50
Corey, to your taxation solution. I think that taxes should play a role in this. Um, but
Carter
9:56
but I also think that we have inadvertently given far too much power to
Carter
10:01
to Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and these, uh, what we thought would be benevolent, um, benevolent organizations, uh, that would, would in some fashion work to promote a public good. And they're not going to, they're just not going to, it was naive of us to think that they would. it.
Carter
10:21
So I think that we need to work harder to put in place rules and regulations that protect our public good. Is this the best one? Nah, I don't think so. I think it could have been done a hundred times better, but
Carter
10:34
but you know, I don't think this is the best government. So, you know, I kind of fit within my expectations. Um, but I do think that tackling meta and tackling Twitter and tackling tackling Google and tackling all of these, you
Carter
10:48
you know, organizations that said that they would be there for the public good that aren't there for the public good that are only there for the almighty dollar.
Carter
10:58
Let's go after them and get what we need as a society. And I think that this is a, a decent, a decent first step.
Corey
11:08
I mean, I just totally disagree. I, you, you've wrapped in high mindedness, this idea of like this inalienable right to you
Corey
11:16
you know facebook and minions memes like give give me a break like i i could actually take your argument that internet access is a bit of a right and that's a utility but you're talking about one social network on the whole wide woolly internet here like that's that's absurd let's like that that's taking it way way too far and sure aren't
Carter
11:35
let's not pretend that 25 of our of our internet time isn't spent been on a meta product let's not pretend these things they're not let's not pretend that that google isn't responsible for significant challenges within our society please please let's not pretend that let
Carter
11:51
let us not pretend yeah
Corey
11:52
yeah and you know 25 of your electricity might be your washing machine steven but it's not the utilities and yet is highly regulated washing
Carter
11:59
washing machines have you seen those stickers that you pull right out of it highly
Corey
12:05
you're extending your argument in an absurd sense. No, I'm
Corey
12:08
You know, that's my personal view. How dare
Corey
12:11
Does Google have too much power? Yes. Does Meta have too much power? Are they trying to make profits? Yeah, well, welcome to late stages capitalism. But again, then address the problem directly. I can't argue with that. These are really dumb, on-the-edge arguments, you know? Not that you're making, but I think that the government is making, that, oh, you know what? We have a problem with news falling apart and you having way too much control over our lives, So we're going to create a bill where you've got to get into a revenue sharing agreement with local news. Like, does that sound like an appropriate fix? That's dumb. And by the way, they weren't even sincere because the first people are like, actually, we don't want to do that. They're like, no, but you must. And so please come back to the table or else we're going to accuse you of putting people's lives at risk. of
Carter
12:53
of things here. I mean, there's been a number of regulatory failures and the federal government is walking away from this as though they've done their jobs properly. And I will agree with you 100% that they have fucked up massively. Even
Carter
13:06
Even this local news problem, allowing these organizations to walk away from local news, they're enormously profitable and they don't make money in one section. They have a responsibility to do local news to ensure that we have an educated and informed public. That
Carter
13:22
That was our deal with them when we gave them access to the airwaves. The fact that they don't use the airwaves anymore is not an excuse to get away from the requirement that we have information flow throughout our society.
Carter
13:38
Sorry, Annalise, you can probably jump in anytime.
Annalise
13:40
No, you guys have missed each other. You don't need a host. you can just bicker back and forth no we did
Carter
13:47
did we did a hogan and carter uh what four episodes ago people are still bitching about it you know it's they there's so much complaining two
Annalise
13:55
two hosts neither wanted to do it and okay so many things to pick apart in everything that you said but let's um
Annalise
14:05
i want to talk about this this strategy perhaps and the fact that they're using the federal government is using the wildfires and the emergency as kind of like a piece of their strategy so the tweet itself said meta's reckless choice to block news is hurting access to vital information on facebook and instagram we
Annalise
14:22
we are calling on them to reinstate news sharing today for the safety of canadians facing this emergency we need more news right now not less that was on friday i believe what do you make of this you know like using an emergency and i think um cory you You touched on it a little about news sites still have their paywalls during emergencies. But using a time when people are vulnerable and people are looking for news to be like, hey, this proves our point. We need news. What do you – is this just the feds, again, screwing things up? Or are they on to something here using the emergency?
Corey
14:55
Well, I mean, it is kind of comms 101 stuff. You look for a way to make it relevant to people. And then they see an argument that, oh, the news is really essential and we've got to have it there. But I guess my challenge with it is, it's not what
Corey
15:11
what we were arguing about, right? Are we arguing about the essential nature of news? Or are we arguing about whether Facebook should be forced to carry news? I don't even know anymore. And it seems to be an intentional conflating of the issues that are at hand, and suggesting that this is somehow Facebook's fault, Meta's fault for doing what they've done. And listen, maybe that's your opinion, and that's fine. And certainly, you can make an argument that there's a switch somewhere at like, you know, one Facebook plaza, they can just flick and all of a sudden people can share news. And maybe that would be a good thing during an emergency. Like I said, I'm less convinced it is just because I know the challenges with social media during these emergencies. But maybe that's your position. Okay. But that's not actually tied to the issue at hand, at least the way that the government is trying to make it. Now, not a bad calm strategy to try to tie it to the issue at hand. It was really interesting to see Facebook or Meta's response, which was essentially, yeah, we've turned on the feature that allows people to mark themselves safe, you know, as though that was what was being asked for. Yeah,
Corey
16:13
but you know, this is, Meta
Corey
16:17
Meta is taking the position that they're not about news, and the government is now taking the position they are about news. And that's what's weird to me. This argument has morphed into the government insisting Facebook and Instagram are about news, and the owner of Facebook and Instagram saying it's not. Like, this is what it has become in week three. Like I said, theater of the absurd. Like, that's not really up to the government to decide whether Facebook and Instagram are about news. So
Annalise
16:42
So where, Carter, what's your take on where we go from here? Three weeks in, neither party has backed down. They're now fighting, as Corey
Annalise
16:51
Corey says, about almost like a different topic.
Annalise
16:54
topic. And I think regular folk are maybe starting to tune in and pay attention. Like, where do you see this going? And I guess strategy-wise, what would you advise feds
Annalise
17:03
feds to do? Well,
Carter
17:04
Well, I don't think I'm going to change my advice from the last time I talked about this. And I'll tell you something that did not listen to that episode, because we said, define your enemy early and define them in such a way that it's like, Corey's not wrong. This is an opportunity to use if you're the government. you use this fire situation the requirement for news as an opportunity for you to gain points to to win people's minds but because you haven't set the enemy properly because you have not told
Carter
17:33
told us what this is about again to cory's point um
Carter
17:36
um we don't know what
Carter
17:38
what we're supposed to think or who we're supposed to be mad at and
Carter
17:41
and it looks to me like as part of that um
Carter
17:45
um this is banging back on on uh on the government it is not coming through that
Carter
17:50
that they are uh the aggrieved party that we are as a society the aggrieved party uh it is is looking more and more like um
Carter
17:58
um the government just doesn't really have a story to tell and they're just trying to blame someone
Carter
18:03
someone else for their for for all of our misery and damn
Carter
18:07
damn it i mean it just pisses me off because there's probably not not an easier enemy in the whole world to have than Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, and
Carter
18:18
whomever else you want to pick on at the Google factory.
Carter
18:21
I mean, these are easy people to dislike and somehow the government of Canada continues
Carter
18:25
continues to not have the ability to define them as the enemy.
Carter
18:29
So right now, right tactic, but you didn't set it up properly.
Carter
18:34
the setup is everything. If you're going to have something work, if you're going to have your communication structure work, You must
Carter
18:40
must set it up appropriately. And we've
Carter
18:43
we've said it a thousand times on this podcast, the Trudeau government does not know how to do crisis
Carter
18:51
doesn't seem to matter who gets put in there.
Carter
18:54
It is either a failure of the people they're putting in, or
Carter
18:56
or it is a failure of the prime minister to take their advice and actually do
Carter
19:00
do smart communications. This is just another
Carter
19:03
another example of a communications failure.
Carter
19:06
That just makes me angry. Well,
Corey
19:09
And even if you wanted to take the same basic policy track, I think there were ways you could have communicated it that would have really put Meta on the back foot. Instead of this coming in hot letter, if the government had said, listen, we know we're in a dispute right now. This had to be the tone too, right? We know we're in a dispute. We understand that they don't see eye to eye with us on news, but now is not the time. So we're asking Meta to reverse this at this moment as people have their lives at risk. Obviously, we will need to figure out new protocols if we can't come to a head. Obviously, a lot of things will need to change, but they're not going to change overnight. And now, now is not the time. So we're asking Meta just to reverse this decision at this moment. And then Meta's in the position where they've reversed the decision. Or they don't. But like, to a very reasonable sounding ask, instead of this coming in hot, you're putting lives at risk. Because a lot of people, and I would actually put myself in that camp too, would say, you fired first, man. Like, you passed this bill, you forced their hand, they did the thing, now you're mad they did the thing.
Corey
20:10
I think you could have avoided that whole line of, like, cynical inquiry and, you know, view of the government's actions if you had just said, now's
Corey
20:17
now's not the time. Like, we're hashing this out, but now's not the time. So we're just asking you. We're asking you politely to do what's right for Canadians at this point. Yeah,
Carter
20:24
Yeah, that would have been way better.
Annalise
20:27
you think of something, and Carter, you mentioned they did not listen and follow your advice. Can the Fed still recover from this? Or is it two, three weeks in? Is it too far gone? Is it too late? It's not
Carter
20:38
not too late. The federal government has this wonderful thing called time and money on this one. And they can, generally speaking, outlast any private corporation that they choose to aim
Carter
20:49
aim their guns at.
Carter
20:51
know, Facebook is a, Meta is a huge entity. Google's a huge entity. Twitter used to be something that mattered. um
Carter
21:00
you know these but
Carter
21:01
but but regardless the government of canada is enormous i think cory's made that point a couple of times you know the government of canada has the ability um to just always
Carter
21:12
always keep coming back but if you keep coming back if you're going to come back again if you're going to do this one more time you
Carter
21:19
you need to make sure you're doing it on the right terms and that's i think where i've got my problems with the with this legislation correlation um cory's
Carter
21:28
cory's got different problems than i do i think that this i think that this should be regulated i think that we should be regulating internet companies in a totally different way i'd want to go after the publishing uh capacity and it's something we can talk about maybe
Carter
21:41
maybe at a later date but you
Carter
21:42
you know we don't treat internet companies as publishers that is kind of at the core of of the of our social
Carter
21:50
social agreement with the with the uh with the with with social media right Right. You post everything and you're not responsible for what you post.
Carter
22:00
but let's look at where that's taken us. We should be rewriting those laws and bringing us into a new space. And that includes that
Carter
22:08
that to me would
Carter
22:10
would also include making sure that we're posting real news. I
Carter
22:13
I mean, I still think you can share the rebels information.
Carter
22:21
the onion. Can you share the onion? I mean, the onion was pretty pissed that
Carter
22:24
that they were being shared.
Carter
22:26
you know so what is what
Carter
22:28
what what defines even news in today's society and how is meta even defining it you
Carter
22:32
you know like it's all fucked up meta
Annalise
22:36
you went all over the place with that answer you know
Carter
22:40
come in that's why that's
Annalise
22:41
that's why they listen
Carter
22:42
that's why they listen that's
Annalise
22:44
that's why who listens well
Annalise
22:46
well what are you talking about this
Corey
22:48
this is a great podcast to drift off to for
Annalise
22:52
actually was just talking to someone who fell asleep to uh to to the sounds of your voice carter um same question for you like is it is
Carter
23:02
you're the one who doesn't bring the energy
Annalise
23:06
is it too late or like if you're advising the feds what what is their move kind of this week and in the weeks to come yeah
Corey
23:15
yeah i mean classic federal government here they they came in way hot right they they seem to have been amped up by both the situation which let's face it is very charged very stressful people make mistakes they don't do optimal things in emergencies that's human nature but but also they uh you know they did something that i'm sure they thought would play very well to their base but maybe it's not going to be particularly persuasive to canadians who they need to persuade here they
Corey
23:42
they need to take a beat i think on this one they might not even like
Corey
23:47
like either they come in and they say hey we're the government and and we're, I mean, look, check the legislation. I'm sure there's some emergency act that you can order a private company to do something. Just do it, right? Like, that's the other thing that bothers me. The fucking government, just do it. Like, if it's so serious, just do it. Tell META they're doing it, and we will figure it all out later under some emergency power you have. For God's sakes, we've seen a pretty good example of emergency powers at use in other contexts in this country in the past couple of years here.
Corey
24:15
Or you just, just cool it, right? These are your two options at this moment but i think regardless they need to find an opportunity to get out of the bickering right so they either need to come in as the heavy and say no this is just happening or they need to slink back a bit and they need to regroup and determine what the hell it is they're actually trying to do here and what exactly would be a victory and how they're going to navigate themselves from a to b like i honestly don't think they necessarily know where they're going it feels like they're hoping a path will open to them somehow cooler heads will prevail somehow they'll get an agreement with google which will force meta or something i don't even know i think this is part of the problem like they uh they were in my opinion too cute by half with this legislation as a whole they need to go back and say what was the purpose of this what are we willing to accept what are we willing not to accept or wherever you want to phrase that and and uh and actually come at it with a clear strategy because this feels like just pinging pinging off the issue whenever something comes up and you are any success in that environment will be accidental you know you've got to know where you're going what
Annalise
25:20
what about just to kind of end this one here do do either of you have any advice for the media companies in here and i think what i find quite interesting is that they've spent the past five plus years pushing their audiences to social media right like there they um there was a huge video push with with facebook there was a huge we need fans and followers and pushing people. I know, Corey, you said at the beginning when you were in government, you would link to come here for the breaking news. I feel like with
Annalise
25:49
with a lot of media, it was the opposite. It was like, go to our social media. So they've spent five, 10 years directing people to these platforms. Now people can't access them on the platforms. What do
Annalise
26:01
do you have advice or strategy for what the media company should be doing in the middle of all this?
Corey
26:07
mean, there's global advice which is no company should become so dependent on another company like that's that's 101 stuff that's porter's five forces stuff that they have all the bargaining power in that particular relationship and you are going to get what you're going to get in an environment like that the yellow pages had this crazy authority and power and ability to bill for things like you you get like a couple of lines in the yellow pages and it would cost a fortune right back when that was the way people did it and you got to be careful for for like all of of your exposure coming through one particular channel and these companies that went all in on it in a way i'm like well
Corey
26:41
well that was a bad business choice and i'm not really sure why it's my job as a canadian as a taxpayer if you want to use that language it's not language i generally love to kind of solve your bad business choice you know private equity company out of new york who owns half of our media like that doesn't that's a yp that's not an mp like figure your shit out is my sort of first reaction to these kinds of things but the the other and this is where the the hypocrisy goes around so deeply.
Corey
27:07
You're right. They have gone out of their way to integrate with social media channels. I did a bit of a tour today. They all still have the tags to optimize their content for Facebook, to optimize their content for Instagram, to make sure that it's as beautiful as possible when sharing. These were choices that they did to make it easier to share on social media. If they didn't like it, they could have just not done any of them. They literally really could have just walked away from it here if
Corey
27:33
if you're a if you're a media company you need to be thinking about do you want to jump from the frying pan into the fire by being in a situation where you're so dependent on facebook and google to one where you're so dependent on a government regulation because i'll tell you this from a corporate strategy point of view and i don't actually steven this was post my time working with you this was when i was a consultant afterwards Afterwards, I used to give this talk about, you know, the risks of companies being in industries that are entirely propped up by government regulation that sort of goes against sort of the public zeitgeist, right? And you can think of a million of them, right, where it looked like they had a de facto monopoly. And then the government said, actually, this is kind of dumb, we don't want to do this anymore. And there's ones I agree with, and there's ones I disagree with. airlines
Corey
28:24
come up obviously right like ah we don't want to do that anymore taxis that's why we have ubers and lifts everywhere and it's put massive downward pressure on taxi salaries i don't love it but you know the public just said this is more convenient we want these things we're going to go this way and if you build a business that is so dependent on those things and the wall comes down your business goes down with it so i just i think it's just bad strategy for these media companies companies to be so all in on c18 as well because this
Corey
28:54
this goes back to how you started this whole segment annalise people are starting to notice they're not loving it in all contexts it feels like a broken internet why do canadians get a second rate internet oh it's because of our government that's dumb won't somebody just fix that will be a sentiment for an awful lot of people seems pretty easy to fix because it was pretty easy to break and uh if you are the media company that relied on that revenue stream and all of a sudden Pierre Poiliev is prime minister and he says we're not doing that anymore well
Corey
29:26
do you do like like you you don't want to just be overly dependent on any one patron here you got to diversify your sources and that's the lesson of social media doesn't seem to be the lesson people are learning as they jump into bed with the government on these things Carter
Annalise
29:40
Carter any uh any closing remarks either advice for media companies news or you want to tell Corey why he's wrong or what's not you close this up Carter
Carter
29:48
I'd love to tell Corey why he's wrong but I really don't have much complaint with what Corey's saying I mean I think that there was so much you
Carter
29:55
you know this was all free right like the it was so much easier just to go on to Twitter and have all your reporters on Twitter and posting their articles because then Twitter
Carter
30:04
Twitter would drive traffic to you and Twitter would drive traffic to you for nothing right Right. Facebook would drive traffic to you for nothing. It turned out actually there was an extremely high cost. You gave away all your traffic to someone else and they monetized it and they turned it into real, real money. And now they don't even need you anymore. I mean, ultimately that's what happened, right? Um, someone monetized your product because you were just too lazy or too ignorant to know how to monetize it yourself. And that is, that's
Carter
30:36
that's the the news media right now. Then you got hit with a number of other factors as well. But at the end of the day, you
Carter
30:45
you gave away your product for nothing because it was easier than
Carter
30:48
than trying to figure out how to actually
Carter
30:51
actually make it work on your own. And maybe you couldn't figure it out on your own.
Carter
30:56
But these big companies now have it. And now government's
Carter
31:00
government's trying to make it right. And government's trying to make it right. And when you're relying on government to make something right especially in the private industry segment sector it's
Carter
31:09
it's going to be gross going to be gross probably not going to work really well so here
Carter
31:15
here we go this
Carter
31:15
this is where we are yeah
Corey
31:17
yeah i mean we got an interesting grab bag of things that you might consider public utilities here the internet social media news right we're in a really weird spot we're in this kind of liminal space where these companies have become so big and you know it seems important but uh you know a lot of people People have broken a lot of things along the way to get here. And, you know, it's not easy solutions. I wouldn't want anyone to suggest or believe I'm suggesting otherwise. But you've
Corey
31:45
you've got to kind of address them head on. You've got to directly address the challenges in front of you and not keep attacking these things from the side. You need a much more conscious approach to these things. And you also, liberal
Corey
31:57
liberal government, you've got to know you're not the only player on the field. You've got to know the billions of dollars at stake if you create a model that fundamentally undermines Meta's profitability. They're not going to play ball here. We are right next to the United States. We said this months ago. This is not Australia. You know, there are risks that META will see with Canada's actions that they just simply did not see with Australia's actions. Smaller country, halfway across the world. yeah
Annalise
32:23
yeah okay let's uh let's leave that one there guys i'm sure we will revisit it again as there are more developments here and let's move into our next segment our next segment the politics of wildfire uh
Annalise
32:36
uh you experienced it cory you experienced carter you guys were both on vacation recently in bc uh things
Annalise
32:43
are burning yellow knife evacuated colonna is being evacuated um i
Annalise
32:48
i want to talk to you kind of high level here in times like this middle of summer country is on fire what's the politician to do um what
Annalise
32:58
what should governing parties be doing right now what should opposition parties be doing and what what are you seeing that you like what are you seeing that you don't like and i think not like we can talk local politics we can talk kind of federal
Annalise
33:10
federal there's the there's lots happening in
Annalise
33:13
in Canada right right now on this so Carter you're you're smiling you kick us off well
Carter
33:18
well I'll tell you what I would I would definitely if I was on an axe the tax uh tour I'd cancel that tour I think that Pierre Poliev did the exact right thing um you know not going to the Yukon to do his axe the tax event uh
Carter
33:31
uh I would also um not
Carter
33:34
not do what the uh Kelowna MP did which is to uh basically tweet about uh climate change while her city was on fire now
Corey
33:48
tweeted about the carbon tax to be clear it's not climate change all
Carter
33:51
all linked together in my mind all
Carter
33:53
all linked together because you
Carter
33:57
are talking about it i mean we've been talking differently for years now. And
Carter
34:06
more people start talking about climate change in different terms because each year it impacts more people directly. And the sad truth of almost any change environment is that people will not change until such time as it impacts them them directly.
Carter
34:25
And now we are seeing direct
Carter
34:26
direct impact after direct impact after direct impact.
Carter
34:31
you know, we can watch what happens in Hawaii and
Carter
34:34
and be like, holy smokes, that was really scary.
Carter
34:36
That's really too bad for those folks in Hawaii, but we will not change our behavior.
Carter
34:41
Now we're starting to see those behaviors come closer and closer. And
Carter
34:45
And don't get me wrong, lots of people still aren't going to change their behaviors. I
Carter
34:48
I mean, I was driving behind, behind giant
Carter
34:50
giant trucks belching black
Carter
34:53
black smoke out of their exhausts as I was driving back from British Columbia.
Carter
35:00
are still assholes. People still will promote their own self-interests, but our self-interests are now becoming aligned with someone better get a hold of this because because shit's getting scary and uh i think that the cpc especially is way offside with where
Carter
35:20
most canadians are going to want going to be in the next in the next 12 to 12 to 18 months before the next election let's put it that way we
Annalise
35:30
we can i want to talk more about the axe attack stuff but cory let's bring you in here what are you seeing right now that you like or that you don't like from politicians in the middle of evacuations and emergency?
Corey
35:42
Well, you know, obviously, these message calendars are built in advance, this axe the tax tour, I'm suggesting or suspecting, maybe it's even been confirmed or not, that that post that from the Kelowna MP was probably a scheduled post probably done by staff, it just seemed like part of a parcel of things going on. And obviously, this is why you have to be very careful about And you've got to be very thoughtful and review these things on, you know, if not an hourly basis, daily basis for sure. So you're not stepping in, you know, a massive amount of challenge. I think we're at an interesting spot in the climate conversations in this country. It's not news. Everybody listening to this knows this, but this is by far the worst wildfire season on record. you know twice as many hectares burned as the last record yet way off the charts compared to previous years i think we were talking a couple of months ago about the number of smoke-filled days in our home city of calgary over the years and you know i'll try to repost that chart maybe on our patreon discord or something but it's insane it is it is incontrovertible these things are happening and there's not really getting around it i guess all a long way to say serious
Corey
36:57
serious Serious people aren't in denial about this. Serious people won't be in denial about this going forward. The younger generations aren't in denial about this. I actually don't think we need to have a ton of conversations in a funny way about whether climate change is real. There's going to be unserious people who are in denial about this. And the CPC risks being lumped in with unserious people if they don't have solutions. But this is background now. And it's fucking depressing, by the way. and we are all complicit in it you know yes you were in an ev no doubt steven as you were behind that car belching it but we're all doing our thing moving about i i mean i was on a boat you know how much gas a boat uses and any given bloody day as i was tooling around here and we all think like our actions aren't that that big right and so i think that the cpc is going to have a bit of an audience for like why me why do i have to be the person who has to deal with this and so i very intentionally kind of separated carbon tax from climate change when you said it because i think that the cpc is increasingly going to do that they don't have a solution for climate change they don't yeah that's very clear um and they play footsie with people who don't believe in climate change but they're going to say this doesn't need to be the solution like that's That's how they're going to slowly pivot towards action on this particular one. And, you know, I look forward to them taking
Corey
38:24
taking on a big state regulatory solution to these things instead of the market solution of the carbon tax, simply because of the way the parties have flipped on this. But it's not
Corey
38:32
not in doubt. The CPC can read the same polls. They're going to have to figure this out some ways, but they're going to count on kind of our individual hypocrisy and selfishness to get them where they need to be until such a point as Canadians just call them on it and say enough.
Annalise
38:49
carter you're sighing what's wrong i
Carter
38:51
i just you know cory's point about there will always be unserious people who are are not engaged in this is bang on um you
Carter
39:00
you know i've had a couple of times today where i've said that and it's really upsetting but
Carter
39:05
the truth is there will always be a lot of people who are unserious there are there are lots of people who go through life uh never having to worry about a solution um never having to worry about what the solution is to, to any particular problem, because frankly,
Carter
39:20
frankly, not everybody's in the solution business. Um, but political parties are supposed to be in the solution business. And
Carter
39:27
right now, I don't know what
Carter
39:31
what drives the CPC, um, ideology,
Carter
39:34
ideology, I suppose, but it's not even really ideological. It's kind of like saying that Danielle Smith is ideological. She's not. she's a ridiculous populist who bounces around from solution to solution that that just moves where she wants to move at any given moment in time um based on you
Carter
39:53
you know her her gut reactions or the gut reactions of the people who are supporting her um
Carter
39:58
that's not good enough right now and maybe
Carter
40:01
maybe it was good enough at some point maybe it was good enough when we weren't dealing dealing with, with existential threats to our society. Um,
Carter
40:12
you know, my kids are older, young, you know, but they're still going to deal with this. They're going to deal with this their whole fucking lives. Um, your kids are younger.
Carter
40:20
They're going to deal with it their whole fucking lives, right? This is, this
Carter
40:24
is just the time for serious people to be doing serious things. And it really pisses me off that one of the political parties that could form government
Carter
40:33
isn't behaving in a serious way to Corey's point.
Carter
40:37
They just aren't. And I,
Carter
40:41
you know, if they, if they said, you know what, we don't like the carbon tax, but here's our solution. I could almost wrap my head around it, but
Carter
40:46
but there is no solution. They don't want to bring a solution because it turns out the only way we're going to do this is by constraining what we're doing.
Carter
40:53
You know, Corey, I was thinking I rented a, uh, wave runner for two hours, not for a whole week, just two hours. And I did think, you know, um,
Carter
41:02
maybe, maybe, maybe a solution that the government of British Columbia or the government of Canada should bring in is
Carter
41:10
is a temporary ban on the sale of any new watercraft, um, that doesn't meet strict environmental standards, unless it's working watercraft, there could be working watercraft, but most of the, you know, the the pleasure craft. Um, do we really need it right now?
Carter
41:29
I thought that would, I was thinking, you know, what, what would be an interesting political, um,
Carter
41:34
um, policy that you could bring in after this summer of fire, uh, that would show that you're serious or it would show that you've got your head in the game on this thing. And that's
Carter
41:46
that's what I came up with kind of just off the top of my head is, is what
Carter
41:49
what would happen if, if someone actually took the line that said, we're
Carter
41:53
we're not selling any more pleasure craft um
Carter
41:55
um in the province of british columbia until we get a grip on
Carter
42:00
on emissions period end of sentence yeah
Corey
42:04
yeah i i just think that would be really unpopular um because then people wouldn't get to do the things that they want to do and you know i think this is one of the things that as a society we're gonna have to grapple with right quick and there's some interesting flags on the field for me here but maybe we should all remind each other like this fucking sucks climate change sucks it was great having oil and gas and being able to burn it with wild abandon and being able to power all of these things cheaply that was pretty fucking cool right destroying the planet one of the reasons we have to do these things is because we've got to make some tough choices at this particular moment here i i think one of the things in alberta that really you
Corey
42:46
you know bends my noodle a bit is the arguments around renewables that we're having right now we don't need to rehash all of them here but renewables have become so competitive on price that we sort of forget the primary argument for them which is that the way we currently generate our electricity is destroying the fucking planet and so we start saying like yeah but you know it's not dispatchable and oh it's not as convenient and it's not as reliable okay gotcha it's
Corey
43:10
it's got this other problem over here half
Corey
43:13
half the fucking country on fire right We have some challenges we've got to deal with here. And so one of the things that I think the CPC is a bit guilty of here is that, well,
Corey
43:23
well, there's something we're all guilty of, which is we don't want to deal with the hard solutions here. We want the miracle solutions that have no downsides. We want to be saved by technology. We want to be saved by some magical thinking force that's out there, right? Like we
Carter
43:35
we were with the
Carter
43:36
ozone layer was this huge threat. Oh, my God, it's the end of days. And then we figured it out, and we're done.
Corey
43:46
but I mean, that's an interesting example, because that was like a government treaty to get rid of the things that were destroyed the ozone layer. But it didn't impact us, right? Like it wasn't impactful. But there were solutions, there were options. So what, Corey,
Annalise
43:58
do you have like, Carter's got this pleasure craft ban idea that he came up with on a pleasure craft. Like, do you have any sort of catchy
Annalise
44:08
catchy solutions like that?
Corey
44:10
No, I mean, my point is there aren't catchy solutions. Like there's a bunch of small ball shit you can do. I think we got to do the small
Corey
44:17
small ball shit is what
Carter
44:18
what I'm trying to get across, right? Like I know that it's not going to solve it.
Annalise
44:22
Carter, why do you think we have to do it? I
Carter
44:23
I think you have to start showing people that we have to act in a multitude of ways. You know, we had the, what
Carter
44:29
what do we have? The one ton challenge for a while and then we had, you
Carter
44:32
you know, like we tried to put it off onto us as individuals. We're going to figure this out, you
Carter
44:38
know, whatever the different phrases or kind of commitments were of the day. But none of that's good enough anymore. Now we have this problem
Carter
44:48
problem that is no longer a future tense problem. It is a present tense problem. And we have to start making present tense solutions. And BC could do it.
Carter
44:59
BC could do it.
Carter
45:00
You know, even the federal government could do it. And maybe my idea is too far. But I think that there needs to be some actions that say, guys, the planet's on fire. We need to start doing things. This is, you know, we've emitted more.
Carter
45:15
You know, there used to be the myth of the boreal
Carter
45:17
boreal forest and the carbon sink. You remember that one, Corey? You and I used to get that all the time.
Corey
45:21
time. Yeah, we used to hear
Carter
45:23
hear that all the time. We are a carbon sink here. Well,
Carter
45:26
Well, we just emitted three times our national emissions, you know, overall emissions in smoke. and co2 from the fires so so much
Carter
45:38
much for the fucking carbon sink you know the carbon sinks on fire now guys we're out of options so if not if not the play you know sure no problem on the pleasure craft i'm fine i'm open to other things if not that what because
Carter
45:52
because i think we need to be in the if not then what category for a while because um shit's
Carter
45:59
shit's getting really real
Corey
46:03
yeah you know i actually think we have drifted toward this been a little meandering i know but i think we've drifted towards the thing that's frustrating me about this current state of conversation here it is that magical thinking it's you know i was thinking about this in the context of danielle smith had a twitter post today about how we're going to phase out emissions not the oil and gas industry and we're going to do this all through carbon capture i
Corey
46:26
doesn't even matter but the point is people want to have their cake and eat it too people want to think a plastic bag ban is helping the environment in a way that perhaps it's not right and i think both parties to wildly different degrees are guilty of this but they're suggesting a bunch of easy solutions and nobody's life needs to materially change and i think we got to be a little bit more honest about the fact that yeah our lives are going to have to change and maybe there'll be these solutions that allow us to bring some of these things in at cost down the road but like
Corey
46:56
like it's it's gonna it's rocky and it's gonna get rocky in different ways if it's gonna get better and i just i i'm looking for a government that's gonna be a little bit more direct about that rather than saying hey we've got this really cool carbon tax and we're gonna do it and you're gonna get it all back in levies and you're not hurt at all and everything's better you get more money and the environment's better and we found the perfect solution like can we just be a little honest that this is going to be a rough couple of decades as we transition away from things that are destroying the planet to things that are a little more costly that we haven't even figured out yet in some cases how
Annalise
47:29
how do you think the the long-term versus short-term thinking and i think especially in the context of politics and parties that want to win again in every four years or whatever like what does that factor into a conversation like this when and and you brought it up carter like Like, your kids who are in their 20s are going to have to deal with it, but my kid who's one and Corey's kid who's kids who are younger, like, do you think there's, like, a generational shift in people who have
Annalise
47:57
have kids of a certain age? Or how do you shift that thinking of, like, this isn't a, you
Annalise
48:02
you know, oh, this is a problem people can deal with in the future to, like, no, we need to deal with this now and we need to be the party that does something about this, whether we get elected again or not. we've
Carter
48:12
we've never you know we're we've got three or four generations that have never heard the word no
Carter
48:17
right you know and and no
Carter
48:20
no has just not been a part of the lexicon uh for any
Carter
48:26
any political party right we we've we've found ways to work around things you want the world's greatest health care system no problem right uh do you want you know we're not going to even have to pay for it especially in alberta i mean jesus we haven't heard the word no um ever i mean since since since the 1970s, at least, um, you
Carter
48:45
you know, like we just don't hear the word. No, we get to hear, you know, we get to do whatever we want whenever we want to do it. And at some point, I think that we're going to have to start
Corey
48:55
start hearing the word no. And,
Carter
48:56
And, and it's going to create real
Carter
48:58
real problems because, but, but we as a society are going to have to ask ourselves, ask and demand that the people start saying no to us. Um, we have to demand that a government stand up and do the the right thing and that means that we all have to suffer a little bit because
Carter
49:13
because we all suffered this summer you
Carter
49:15
know the you know the hurricane the hurricane in california we haven't spoken about right
Carter
49:23
hurricane in california is not supposed to happen it's just not supposed to happen um
Carter
49:30
and you know maybe it's downgraded to a tropical storm or whatever the fuck it is uh
Carter
49:34
the truth of the matter is uh
Carter
49:36
uh we're going to see more climate change
Carter
49:40
impact you know created problems uh this is what our third episode in a row where we've talked about it it is not going away and
Carter
49:48
and it may you know maybe the fires go out in the winter um but now we're talking about zombie fires that come back so we're
Carter
49:58
we're pretty fucked and and i think that we have to start being willing enabling and able to
Carter
50:03
to accept the word no you
Carter
50:06
can't have that well
Corey
50:09
well look i don't i don't know how fucked we are as long as we pick up our socks right now this is kind of like a societal wide
Corey
50:17
you know i guess the equivalent is like a fight or flight but the flight in this case is just to sort of deny we need to do anything or think somebody else will take care of it and we just need a few more people to say we're going to solve this and be fucking legends you know and have the the next couple of generations say oh that was pretty good thank you for dealing with that but you know this
Corey
50:35
this is this is not as this goes on there are far fewer people in younger generations who are in doubt about this they've lived through i mean some of this misery themselves they're seeing firsthand they have doubts about what's going to happen in the future they want action um and so this problem will resolve itself but it needs to resolve itself faster and that next generation they will judge us and they will judge us rightly if we don't do something about it because we all saw it coming like at this point nobody's
Corey
51:05
nobody's gonna buy that like this just hit you out of the side of the head we've been talking about this my whole life we've
Corey
51:10
we've been talking about this my whole life as a possibility here and the the people who have said yeah these are one-off events they
Corey
51:17
they look dumber and dumber and they look dumber and dumber still as they continue to hold onto these lines uh because it's just not it's
Corey
51:25
it's not like what an amazing coincidence at this point that all of these things seem to be happening just as people have said that they would happen i
Corey
51:33
i mean what do you expect us to believe here like these arguments that i
Corey
51:37
i don't think are that mainstream where people are saying well except for maybe some people in our government in alberta yeah
Corey
51:44
yeah you know uh but this is arson right there's arson that's causing some of these forest fires well you
Corey
51:51
can't light a damp forest like the hot dry conditions are are what is causing this here like this
Corey
51:57
this is this like it's the equivalent of saying well yeah but there were you know there's fires this year there were fires last year it's the equivalent of saying well there were car accidents before we all started driving drunk yeah maybe but you've probably set the conditions for more car crashes here right like everyone's just got to smarten up that's my final thought on this
Annalise
52:19
serious end us on a hopeful note Carter, Corey thinks everyone needs to smarten up, is there hope here or is this just another depressing
Annalise
52:29
climate change conversation? Is
Carter
52:31
Is there hope? I think we can solve this you're doing magical thinking now you're doing magical thinking no
Corey
52:37
no I'm not, it's going to be expensive, it's going to be painful it's going to change our way of living but we consult we have the tools in front of us to solve this but we will not but it requires us to have honest conversations as a society when have we had that take
Corey
52:52
take some tough action ask him
Carter
52:53
him to have an honest conversation hey pp let's have a fucking honest conversation he's not having it
Carter
52:59
danielle smith's not having an honest conversation okay
Carter
53:03
okay here's what we need to do we need to take control we need better parties that are that are targeting this and we need better you know we need better election outcomes because the parties that are doing this the parties that are taking this on are being smarter not because you know the future generations are going to get this right they won't they will continue to be stupid people will continue to be stupid because that is our eternal situation we need to have people who are smart cory i'm counting you as one of them i don't know why at this stage given your particular conversation but you know people
Carter
53:36
people People who are smart need to stand up and say, it's, it's my fucking time.
Carter
53:41
I'm going to do this now because no one else is fucking doing it. And that's what we have to do. We have to do that because before it wasn't, it wasn't that big a deal. Like our
Carter
53:51
our control, Corey, what, what control we have had, what we've, what we've exerted over the past, I
Carter
53:57
I don't know, 10, 15 years that you and I have kind of worked together and done stuff together. That's been fun. It's been exciting. i think we got pretty well remunerated but shit's getting different now shit's getting different and it's time to step up because i i just don't think that i don't think we're going to get another chance i don't think we're going to get another chance but
Carter
54:18
but i'm bummed how
Carter
54:19
was that kids kind of hopeful
Annalise
54:21
carter and then it just ended
Annalise
54:24
hopeful at all am
Carter
54:26
am i supposed to what do i say what what what i
Carter
54:30
mean i think we it can be done but it's gonna take fucking steps up it makes it fucking happen and
Carter
54:37
and they're look i mean are we counting on elizabeth may to do it are
Carter
54:40
are we like who are we counting on who
Carter
54:43
who are we counting on who's
Annalise
54:45
gonna do it carter who are you speaking to who are you trying to motivate maybe someone
Carter
54:51
discord by the way
Corey
54:55
yeah patrons only let's
Corey
54:59
we almost never actually like there's probably listeners who don't even know you pay six dollars a month you can get more of this yeah
Corey
55:06
also less of this yeah
Annalise
55:07
yeah and you can join a really cool community on the strategist
Annalise
55:12
yeah visit it we should make a point of mentioning that dot
Annalise
55:15
dot ca also you
Annalise
55:17
you can see it on a bus bench in crescent heights east yeah
Corey
55:21
yeah where we've got fiber internet yeah
Annalise
55:23
you guys do interesting my internet tonight keeps um jamming when carter's ranting it's like it every time he rants is when it jams sure so listen
Corey
55:32
listen before we move off i should let you know like crescent heights east that's what people not really in the know call it we call it che no
Annalise
55:39
no one calls it che yeah
Annalise
55:42
you do have a fiber internet there though no one calls
Corey
55:45
calls we also have a flag che has a flag and fiber tell
Annalise
55:47
tell us more about What about the flag in Che, Corey? Everyone's just dying to know.
Corey
55:51
No, it's just like they're everywhere. You know, it's just like Toronto has Cabbage Town, Calgary has Che. This is how we are.
Annalise
55:57
Is it a double-sided flag?
Corey
56:00
I mean, it's a flag. You can get a double-sided version. There's a lot of people who sell Che flags, Annalise. Like, I don't know what this is about. I've
Annalise
56:08
I've got to go hang out in Crescent Heights East to check this out.
Corey
56:11
Yeah, you can get, no, Che. We say Che. No one calls it Che. you can
Annalise
56:16
can get a one-sided
Corey
56:16
-sided version at uh westofcenter.ca perfect
Corey
56:20
there you go guys
Annalise
56:21
guys lightning round um here's a question from the discord the community we were talking about that i check in on occasionally uh
Annalise
56:28
i thought that i thought this was interesting i don't i don't know if you guys actually know the answer but um at core i also don't know if you listened to our last episode but we talked a lot about trump and georgia and someone says if the georgia if the The Georgia trial ends up happening during the election season and is televised. How do networks balance wanting to show it and the laws around how much airtime they give candidates? I don't remember the details, but I do remember in 2016, the conversations about how they couldn't show reruns of The Apprentice or cutting Trump's appearance out of Home Alone 2, but
Annalise
56:58
but a trial going on all day, every day for weeks, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. I
Annalise
57:02
thought that was an interesting question that hadn't crossed my mind. Do either of you have an answer or do you know if networks would have to balance like like wanting to show a trial with laws around how much airtime you can give a candidate?
Carter
57:13
seems to me, do you want to go first, Corey? And
Carter
57:16
I'll clean it up.
Corey
57:17
I don't know the answer, but I assume that that would not be considered like a great boon to the candidate. So it seems weird that you would have to balance off like the Trump trial with a bunch of Joe Biden speeches. That seems to be like hitting twice. I'm sure that this is somewhat consider there's got to be something about news and the fair use or not fair use doctrine the whatever
Corey
57:39
whatever doctrine it is yeah
Corey
57:41
carter probably no do you
Carter
57:42
you have an answer i think that it has to do with the election period itself which is again defined differently uh i think it is only after the nominations that that occurs the nominations technically don't happen until july or until until august of 2024 so the the um
Carter
58:02
it sounds like most of the trials are going to occur uh prior to the um prior
Carter
58:11
prior to the and the the the conventions um although they may be continuing on i just don't think that this is one of those situations this is not promotional
Carter
58:21
promotional to cory's point but i i think that you
Carter
58:25
know the the networks yeah
Carter
58:28
they'll cover this and they'll figure it out because it's going to be the most money they've ever made there
Corey
58:34
there is uh i i mean i certainly take the point like i remember when donald trump was a guest on saturday night live he uh he
Corey
58:44
he was only in it for like seven minutes of the like they used them very judiciously for that reason like for every minute they had to to give matching airtime to hillary clinton at the time and so it caused a lot of complications for the network but yeah
Corey
58:58
yeah i'd like i think him sitting there in the defendant box is probably not the kind of thing that needs to be balanced out i don't know i guess we'll see that's an interesting question i
Annalise
59:07
i thought it was an interesting question that the type of quality content people can um go on the discord and uh find conversations about this stuff i
Corey
59:15
i mean really clearly underlines underlines
Corey
59:17
underlines how little we know though so like next time maybe give us a heads up so we can answer you know
Annalise
59:23
you guys read the discord
Annalise
59:25
hundred times more than i do no
Annalise
59:27
no it was it was like a discord conversation it wasn't like a hey annalise ask us gone ask this on air but i said you know what this is
Corey
59:34
just like you're prying in i'm
Annalise
59:36
i'm gonna ask you there it's
Annalise
59:37
it's spying spying is the word i like to use cory um
Annalise
59:41
um last lightning round question in dynalife alberta's health minister said friday it will take over lab services from dynalife after
Annalise
59:48
after essentially things were just like not working one year into a 25-year contract that
Annalise
59:53
that was supposed to save taxpayers upwards of 18 million dollars um
Annalise
59:58
um dynalife's equipment staff and facilities will be transferred to alberta precision labs which is part of ahs lightning
Annalise
1:00:05
lightning Lightning round, so keep it short, Carter.
Annalise
1:00:10
your thoughts. Keep it short.
Carter
1:00:16
there's all kinds of room for private delivery of health care services. There's all kinds of room for that. I don't want this to be, you
Carter
1:00:24
you know, we have this idea that there's this private public line somewhere that
Carter
1:00:29
that makes it good public or bad public. The truth
Carter
1:00:33
truth of the matter is that if we include public, there's going to be profit motive included. And profit motive is going to erode some delivery. Some things will be eroded through that profit motive. Doctors have it. We talked about it before. Doctors are private enterprises for the most part.
Carter
1:00:57
You know, there's lots of privatization in health care. That's fine. fine but
Carter
1:01:02
we we can't be on the hook if
Carter
1:01:05
if the privatization goes wrong uh if the privatization doesn't work if the private if the government decides that they're going to outsource something there should be there needs to be a consequence either for the private company or for the uh the
Carter
1:01:19
the government itself unfortunately we refused to hold the government accountable in part because we didn't know the dynalife was going to be a fucking gong show but then again why didn't we we know? Why, where was the NDP? You know, the cancer center is still not occupied. Where's the NDP? Why aren't we talking about it? I mean, it sounds to me like the NDP said, well, of course it was never going to be occupied by this point. So we're not going to actually take a, take a run at it. I mean, fucking
Carter
1:01:44
fucking take a run at this guys. It's, it's important. And we're getting our asses handed to us because this government is shit. And, uh,
Annalise
1:01:53
it's great. Good, good short answer sorry that didn't go down
Annalise
1:01:56
other tangent yeah what
Carter
1:01:59
thoughts here what do you want from me uh
Corey
1:02:04
uh my thoughts uh besides i'm gonna have to remember to check steven's levels at the one hour two minute mark is uh i guess i i'm not shocked i mean this has been a slow burning crisis for a while here it was pretty clear there were massive lines everyone knows somebody i was talking to a colleague of mine she she was in what she described as just like a totally chaotic situation you know lines for hours and hours people losing their minds you know because this system had just entirely broken down lab services in the city of calgary i'm talking about specifically you know they say that there are no atheists in a foxhole and i will say there are no free marketers in a canadian health care crisis and it is pretty natural for governments anywhere in this country when faced with a health care challenge to say well the government will do it and so now the government's doing it and let's see the government do it better but just because the government stepped in does not guarantee better results we need to see the proper investments in people in equipment in staff in interest from alberta health services and they need to stop jerking around apl which was alberta public labs before it became alberta precision labs because of course uh and and that's tied in in many ways to this dynalife story we're telling right now so uh work is required regardless of who owns it something
Corey
1:03:23
something needs to be done okay
Annalise
1:03:25
we're gonna leave yep nice agreeing
Annalise
1:03:30
yeah we have more they're not gonna ask did i go too long on
Carter
1:03:33
on one of the answers is that what the problem was three
Annalise
1:03:37
three minutes over we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1092 of the strategist my name is annalise clingbeil with you as always stephen carter and corey