Transcript
Carter
0:03
know it pisses you off, but I brought some cherries to eat, because I haven't had a chance to eat them yet, and it's medicine.
Corey
0:11
It's not medicine, it's cherries. This is episode 1087 of The Strategist. Welcome. There's no Zain, or Annalise, to keep things on the rails.
Carter
0:21
It's medicine, because I've got gout.
Corey
0:27
this is the patreon episode so we don't have to worry about brand safety normally our intros follow you know like
Corey
0:34
like some ad for tim hortons
Corey
0:36
ice caps or something what are you drinking
Corey
0:38
you know i thought i would have myself a san pellegrino i'm
Corey
0:41
i'm a sophisticate you know that's
Carter
0:42
that's 140 calories here never gonna get back hey you
Corey
0:47
know what 35 35 it's one of these like lower lower calorie ones yeah
Carter
0:52
yeah so basically it's just pissed up water yeah
Corey
0:55
yeah pretty much so um yeah we decided to do this episode anyways you want to tell the audience why you
Corey
1:02
pretend like they're in the room with us do
Carter
1:03
do you remember that time you and i were like you know what we'll do we'll
Carter
1:06
we'll just get two hosts we'll
Carter
1:08
we'll just get two hosts you
Corey
1:09
you know what zane's unreliable zane's unreliable yeah we're gonna get another host we'll
Carter
1:15
we'll just get two hosts and away we'll have two
Carter
1:18
and then annalise has got foot and mouth disease or something like that is that what it is yeah
Carter
1:24
foot and mouth disease so she's afraid and uh i mean we just never heard from zane we don't know where he is i
Corey
1:31
mean we do we know he wasn't available tonight which is why i'm doing tonight this was supposed to be an episode of you zane and annalise actually yeah
Corey
1:38
yeah was it really yeah
Corey
1:40
yeah we traded me and zane i
Corey
1:42
i didn't let you know because i got a lot of joy out of you getting mad at zane not responding okay
Carter
1:49
you and me doing We're doing a show. You know why we're doing a show, though?
Carter
1:52
Because you and I are
Carter
1:53
in a committed relationship.
Corey
1:58
don't like that phrasing at
Carter
2:00
We're in a committed relationship.
Corey
2:02
can land this plane, given the news of the day, given one of the stories we want
Carter
2:06
want to talk about here. And we have outlasted, you and I,
Carter
2:09
the prime minister and his wife.
Corey
2:12
was always rooting for us, pal.
Carter
2:14
I'm just proud of us. I'm proud of us. I was trying to think today. I was thinking, when was the last time we had a single prime minister? And I think... And it was his dad. It was his father. He's
Carter
2:24
just running this playbook.
Carter
2:26
This is exciting because he divorced his
Carter
2:29
mother and then was single playboy. Or was he single playboy then got married?
Carter
2:33
I can't remember. Well,
Corey
2:34
I don't know. I just don't know. Why do I hear chimes? What are you doing? Why was there a chime?
Carter
2:41
I don't know. I'm supposed to be... Why
Corey
2:42
Why are you eating? I
Carter
2:43
I told you. You know, we started recording
Corey
2:44
recording two and a half minutes ago.
Carter
2:49
aren't paying for this one, are they?
Corey
2:50
Do you know what?
Corey
2:53
It's doing it again. I
Carter
2:54
I don't know what's going on.
Corey
2:56
Oh, my God. You
Carter
2:57
You go here and you go to this thing. Okay. And you go to...
Carter
3:01
Oh, I see the problem.
Carter
3:06
It takes two clicks, not one click.
Corey
3:09
Yeah. It's done. That's
Carter
3:11
I fixed it now. Do
Corey
3:12
Do you want to tell the audience how righteous you got when I asked if your audio was off? uh well
Corey
3:18
we hit record i
Carter
3:19
i don't know if you know this this might be news to you you
Carter
3:22
you can be a little bit of a pain in the ass a
Corey
3:26
correct pain in the ass yeah you're
Carter
3:27
you're wearing children's headphones and you're bothering me okay
Corey
3:32
okay well they're not children's headphones they're just regular
Corey
3:36
trudeaus have got i just have a large head or separated
Carter
3:37
separated can we continue here's
Carter
3:40
here's my question for you do
Corey
3:41
do you want every
Carter
3:43
every Every single political strategist is running around saying, it's
Carter
3:46
it's not going to matter.
Carter
3:48
It's not going to matter. Every pundit, I should clarify, there are only two political strategists, and it's you and me, right?
Carter
3:55
right? But every political pundit is running around saying, this is not going to have any influence. And let me ask you the following- Probably Zayn, too.
Corey
4:01
Feels like Zayn's going to- Zayn
Carter
4:03
Zayn would totally say something like that. He's getting paid $3.50 to be on Power and Politics right now.
Carter
4:08
But this is, here's my question for you, Mr. Hogan.
Carter
4:12
Do you think that this will have no impact? Because as we've just discussed, as
Carter
4:21
just discussed this point.
Carter
4:24
We haven't had a single prime minister since the 1970s.
Corey
4:30
Yeah. Will it have an impact? I think probably in small ways we don't fully appreciate. Like, I'm looking forward to the Canadian remake of An American President, where Justin
Corey
4:42
and an environmental lobbyist get together. And I can easily see how that plays out, following literally the same script. They don't need to change a beat, frankly. I've
Carter
4:52
I've met all the environmental lobbyists. Not a chance. Not a hope.
Carter
4:57
They don't have a sniff at this prime minister. This prime minister is going to wind up in bed with big oil. You just watch. watch big
Carter
5:04
big oil hires what a twist yeah
Carter
5:07
that's where he's going okay all
Corey
5:09
all right well my
Carter
5:09
my hottie i mean people with a full head of hair like you huh yeah
Carter
5:15
kind of bald tonight
Carter
5:16
i think this is a real thing
Corey
5:17
thing i think this is a real thing i think that people are explain show your work here show your work i'm
Corey
5:22
i'm not 100 convinced people
Carter
5:23
people vote for people like them right
Carter
5:26
right and when sophie was a lot
Corey
5:28
lot of divorced people there's
Carter
5:30
there's a lot of divorced people you You know what they're all seeking?
Carter
5:32
Another marriage. I don't understand it. I think that one would be enough. And now the prime
Corey
5:35
prime minister's there. One
Carter
5:36
One should be enough. Right there. But this guy is seeking another marriage. And I think that it's not going to help him. I think that having a wife and kids and being the doting father was a brand position. You
Corey
5:50
he's still a father, though, right? No, I'm told that- You know that divorced fathers can still be fathers.
Carter
5:55
That's not what Heather was telling me.
Carter
5:59
so maybe maybe i got maybe i got bad info maybe
Carter
6:03
maybe i might have
Corey
6:04
have gotten some bad info yeah yeah
Carter
6:06
okay well that's good to know it's good to know yeah
Carter
6:09
kids are gone now so it doesn't really matter so well
Corey
6:11
well i can't believe for a second that uh you know that that heather's still there you know once you outlaunch those kids out of there but we
Carter
6:19
we are getting one back though in september oh
Carter
6:24
she's uh in her last year university the university of calgary i I don't know if you're familiar with the institution. Yeah.
Corey
6:28
Yeah. I've heard a few things about it.
Carter
6:31
it. Yeah. She's pretty excited about the last year and she's really focusing, right?
Corey
6:36
That's good. She wants to get good grades. Last year's good. I know a
Carter
6:40
but she's not buying that.
Corey
6:46
me, this guy is of no use to that. Yeah.
Corey
6:48
I think they put up some pretty strong walls between people like me and the academy, Stephen.
Corey
6:54
pretty certain that my car doesn't work in a lot of doors. I was
Carter
6:56
was trying to blow myself up, you know, trying to show off for my daughter. And you kind of brought that crashing down to earth. Well,
Corey
7:03
sorry to, sorry to, you know, reveal behind the curtain here.
Carter
7:07
here. Speaking of crashing back down to earth,
Corey
7:11
We're not, we can't be off the prime minister thing already. We did like
Carter
7:14
like 10 minutes on the prime minister.
Carter
7:17
This isn't some fucking Zane episode where we dig in. That's
Corey
7:20
That's a fair point. But this could be. so
Carter
7:22
so tell me cory how do you feel about uh sophie in here's
Corey
7:26
here's what you did what
Carter
7:27
i think here's what i think without telling you what i think in my question okay okay if if for example people are looking at the prime minister and saying i want to see a representative of a family man if they're looking at him and saying you know what i think that the prime minister of our country as has happened for the last 50 years should be a married man if they're looking at the prime minister and And they're saying, I think the prime minister should be a married man. If they're looking at him and saying, as they have in over the last 50 years, the prime minister should be... Hey, as you're saying, hey,
Corey
7:57
hey, Zane Proxy, as you're saying man all of the time, you know, Kim Campbell was also not married. So there's another prime minister in between.
Carter
8:04
And what happened to her?
Corey
8:07
think we're seeing a pattern. Okay. This
Carter
8:09
This is a pattern.
Carter
8:11
Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me why I'm
Corey
8:13
Tell me why I'm wrong. Oh, my Lord in heaven. Evan.
Corey
8:18
I don't really know that it's going to be a massive deal. I don't think most people walk through their lives thinking about how Justin Trudeau's marriage is on any given day. I feel it's much more likely a year from now, somebody will make some comment about him not being married. And most people will be like, oh yeah, I forgot that happened. But what I think is interesting about it is the way that it was launched to the world. And not going to say say anything that's going to shock most
Corey
8:43
most of our listeners who are a little plugged in the idea that justin trudeau's marriage was like a little on the rocks has been an open secret in ottawa for a very long time yeah now you
Corey
8:55
you can't put a lot of stock into these rumors i've heard all sorts of rumors about all sorts of people that have been all sorts of bullshit but i think from the organizer class it's pretty costed in and
Corey
9:06
i don't know man i mean i just feel like uh doing it in kind of that classic just before a long weekend through the joint press release i
Corey
9:16
don't know between those things happening it's designed to be buried and forgotten and uh what
Corey
9:21
what i think is fascinating is that everybody's willing to to
Corey
9:24
to play that game right
Carter
9:27
uh well not me sir i
Carter
9:28
i am not prepared to play that game i think that that game is a fool's game i think that first of all if he was going to bury it you know and he should have done it just before the cabinet shuffle right
Corey
9:38
does it just before the cabinet no
Carter
9:40
does absolutely no one can remember no one even knows absolutely
Corey
9:44
absolutely no way what
Carter
9:46
how dare you sir how
Carter
9:48
how dare you why not well
Corey
9:50
well you want to know the honest answer yeah Yeah.
Corey
9:55
Because people are assholes and they would say things like, OK, oh, this person's up in cabinet. Oh, why are they up? He's recently single, too. Do you think these two events are connected? Oh, you don't
Carter
10:05
don't think they're saying stuff like that already? I mean, even CTV News. I watched the CTV News report on this and they were you know, they never they never spoke of the innuendo. They never said exactly what it was. But what they were implying was that there was a whole bunch of innuendo around this. and there's a lot
Corey
10:21
lot of innuendo people can do their own searching i'm not super keen on repeating it but no but
Carter
10:25
but yeah you know the the news is already doing the innuendo the innuendo is going to be there anyways but burying things is still a good tactic bury
Carter
10:34
bury things and they go away
Carter
10:38
that's what we should do why
Carter
10:40
wouldn't we bury i mean isn't
Corey
10:41
isn't this a barrier it's the dead of august it's just before a long weekend you know there's this joint statement and uh then everyone's gonna kind of move on and they've asked for privacy and i think the vast majority of the apparatus that is the opposition and the media is is largely going to respect that after a day or two of stories that's my sense
Carter
11:01
sense at least i think that pierre pauliev can't touch it right i i think there is no how do
Corey
11:05
do you touch it i
Carter
11:05
i think there's no political upside right so he won't he won't go after it and i'm surprised actually uh that there's been as much discipline within the uh cpc caucuses there has i mean i guess that uh there what percent of that caucus do you think is
Corey
11:21
what percent of that caucus you think is divorced i'd say a pretty high percent this
Carter
11:25
this is actually an excellent point i mean the number of people that get divorced in this game is staggering uh very high
Carter
11:31
you know i mean this is another opportunity for for me to push steve pagan's book the dark side uh where they talk about the divorce or he talks about the divorce statistics and you know this is you know that book has got to be 25 years old now uh and it's only i think gotten worse i mean everybody gets divorced going to to ottawa it's one of the things that when people say to me i want to seek federal office i mean in calgary in you know in provincial politics it's bad uh federal politics is way worse you just got that much more distance between your family and your job and your job is there especially if you're a cabinet minister for quite some time like
Carter
12:08
like you don't get to go high
Corey
12:08
high pressure job you're surrounded by people who love you and tell you how great you are meanwhile the reality at home might be very different because
Carter
12:15
because of course it
Corey
12:15
it is especially given you're halfway across the country like there's a powder keg situation for elected officials and
Carter
12:22
and actually i think the prime minister actually has a relatively easily i mean they are you know they they get a little bit they're all in ottawa
Carter
12:28
they've got a residence it may not be the nicest of the residences but what do you do um you know and And they all get they get taken care of. There's there there are people who drive them there. You know, of course, it's security. It's a required element, which kind of takes the sheen off of it. But they have they have supports that the average MP doesn't have. And it still impacts most, you know, many relationships. I think the you
Carter
12:54
know, there were rumors. I think there have been rumors about literally every every prime minister and their I mean, and their spouse. I mean, we don't need to go through and kind of rehash each of them, but this is not exactly a unique position for a Canadian prime minister to find themselves in.
Corey
13:09
Well, it's interesting, given your opening comments about how unusual it is to have a divorced prime minister.
Carter
13:15
minister. I mean, take me back. Tell me when the last one divorced. I'm telling you that there's always rumors. The last one that actually separated, I mean, it's his dad. So what are you going to do? I mean, that's 50 years of history of people staying together, at least until after the, you know,
Carter
13:41
term, that word. Yeah, the
Carter
13:44
Go ahead, know your words, rub it in my face.
Carter
13:48
You know, Corey, yeah,
Carter
13:50
yeah, you know words.
Corey
13:53
know this is an interesting issue because it's one that obviously like feels big and it feels interesting and it speaks to a lot of things in politics like we've already talked about like those challenges and you know the consequences it could have in terms of perceptions of the prime minister but
Corey
14:08
but at the end of the day it's just a thing that happens to a lot of people and i think one of the reasons in addition to the conservatives being in the there but for the grace of god go i club on this particular matter is like what's the upside like attacking somebody for a marriage having troubles like you're attacking fucking
Corey
14:25
fucking everybody at some point like there's always going to be a rocky patch or something and like that's that's just there's no benefit to that there's no upside which is part of why i go back to i don't i can't see this having a material effect on the uh on the prime minister i i
Carter
14:38
i don't think i i just think that it has an impact i think that everybody running around saying it's not going to have an impact you know there is there is likely a reason why uh we've seen nothing but married couples in this role for 50 years and that reason um is not stated it's not something that we talk about it's not something maybe that we acknowledge but it's like when you're choosing a brand when you're choosing a person to represent you uh they have chosen the voters have chosen this particular configuration configuration, uh, for 50 years. And I think that that tells us a story. And I, I think that you'd be, uh, you'd be nuts not to assume that there's still going to be some sort of a story told about this moving forward.
Corey
15:22
Yeah. Well, look, I'll, I'll concede this. I think one of the reasons why political consultants like you and I often would suggest opportunities for the spouse to be engaged is that having somebody who, who is there and loves you and trusts you and can be kind kind of a proxy for all of those feelings that people like to see that they like to see that a candidate is worthy of that love and that trust. And I just don't know if it matters that much when you're a sitting prime minister that everybody's formed opinions of, but certainly when people are forming opinions about you in the first place,
Corey
15:54
you know, one of the things you look at is what are the people around them think of this individual and, and their spouses is obviously a big source on that. You
Carter
16:01
You know, in the first iteration of, of this podcast, you know, when and we were doing the first episodes, the best episodes, really, the ones just after the Zune exclusive, you know, when we were really auditioning. Yeah, they were good
Corey
16:13
good ones. They were great. We
Corey
16:15
tried so much harder back then. We
Carter
16:17
We did. And they were, they're available still on Patreon if you pay enough money, right? Like if you have, you have to pay some significant. That's true, $10, you
Corey
16:23
you can get the.
Corey
16:25
Yeah, you can go back and see what we thought about current events in 2015 and
Carter
16:31
Well, I think one of the things that we were talking about is that McLean spread where they were featuring the Trudeaus and how important that spread was in 2015 in terms of getting Justin Trudeau elected. His perfect little family and his perfect little, you know, cars and his perfect little everything. And they were running around and they looked like Canadians wanted to be perceived, you know, Camelot for the Northern set. And here we are, you know, Now that Camelot is gone, and
Carter
17:05
and I mean, arguably, it's been gone for a long time, as we got to know.
Carter
17:09
know. Yeah, we're not
Corey
17:09
not in Camelot anymore. We
Corey
17:12
for a long time. But
Carter
17:15
again, you're making the distinction that it may not hurt him because he's already elected.
Carter
17:22
Yeah, and I'm just saying, yeah, that's, you know, but keep in mind, we grow disdainful of those things that we get to know a little bit better, too. And, uh, I
Carter
17:34
I think that there's,
Corey
17:35
there's, yeah, hence the divorce rate. Yeah.
Carter
17:37
Yeah. So I think that Canadians are going to look at this and say, eh,
Carter
17:42
eh, I don't know.
Carter
17:43
I could like them once, but, uh, even stove, even Sophie doesn't, doesn't like him anymore.
Corey
17:50
Wow. What a punchy way to end that segment. Speaking
Carter
17:54
Speaking of people that we don't like anymore.
Corey
17:57
Zane and Annalise, is that who we're
Carter
17:58
we're talking about? Let's go on to segment number two.
Carter
18:04
I tried. This is my second one. This is my second transition.
Carter
18:08
don't think either of
Corey
18:09
of them took it. I know. I pulled you back.
Corey
18:14
Oh, yeah. Did you read it? Another reason. I did. I read the whole thing. Yeah, me
Carter
18:18
It was a great read,
Corey
18:21
I mean, I will say that that office in general has done a great job of creating very
Corey
18:25
very approachable indictments. I would really encourage anybody to pick it up and read it. It's not legalese. It's not difficult to follow. It is a very clearly laid out case as to how, well, in this particular situation, Donald Trump attempted a coup.
Corey
18:40
Pretty compelling, too, just as the documents case was a very compelling read about a man who took documents and then tried to conceal the fact that he took those documents.
Corey
18:49
It's a real strength of this special prosecutor. You
Carter
18:52
You know what? I think that this is a learning opportunity for anybody in communications. You know, this is the way to communicate with people on their terms, even if you are discussing things that are on your terms, right? This is his world. It is that of indictments and, you know, legal documents. And he has chosen, he and his team have chosen to make these documents accessible to the population. And I think it is making a tangible difference because these Fox hosts that are, you know, kind of used to getting that briefing note from Bill Barr. You remember the briefing note from Bill Barr, which basically was this summary that said, don't worry, Donald Trump is doing the Mueller report.
Carter
19:35
Yeah, it's all good.
Carter
19:36
It's fine. It's fine. And they said, well, there's our talking points. There we go.
Carter
19:43
That doesn't exist here because it's so accessible that basically everybody can read it. It's short. It's concise. It's to the point. It's laid out in a exceptionally rational fashion that enables us to read it and understand it. And man,
Carter
20:00
man, it's just solid communications.
Corey
20:04
short concise and to the point i feel like at least one of those words you didn't need to use because it's a little duplicative but you
Carter
20:12
you know i see your point there and
Carter
20:17
i'm a little ashamed of myself i'm a little ashamed you know this is what happens when you don't have uh the verbosity of uh is verbosity yeah
Corey
20:24
yeah we can kind of we look pithy next to zane yeah
Carter
20:28
look like we really tied it together other you know yeah when james but boy
Corey
20:34
boy but he's not that yeah
Corey
20:37
and at least this indictment right
Corey
20:39
i doubt it i doubt it she's got uh hand and foot in mouth disease or or whatever it was foot and
Carter
20:46
and mouth disease i think isn't
Carter
20:49
what it's called i
Carter
20:51
i think i've had that a couple times um foot and mouth disease yeah yeah yeah
Corey
20:55
yeah i think you might have yeah so
Corey
20:58
this indictment is uh i i think in some ways what i like about this indictment i'll say is that it gets really to the heart of the matter in some ways the uh the new york case the criminal case there sort of pisses me off because like yeah it's it's illegal probably by the way things are going yeah
Corey
21:18
but it it does feel a little bit like going after al capone on taxes which admittedly worked but it feels like it sort of misses the point totally the documents case is insane but that's all post-presidency stuff and yeah he's guilty and he should go to you know he should be punished for that go to jail for that perhaps uh but uh it's
Corey
21:37
it's not really my problem with donald trump it's a problem i have with donald trump but it's not the problem this
Corey
21:44
this gets to the heart of the matter right this is this is the actions he did that put at serious jeopardy and continue to put at serious jeopardy the united states democracy and
Carter
21:55
and that's the core of it right like you know we you know he's done many criminal things i mean i can't even begin to i can't remember the name of the act that says you can't use the office to promote yourself and make money off of it there's an act yeah
Corey
22:07
yeah it's called the constitution it's
Carter
22:09
it's no there's an actual act there's an actual act it's the further real says that you can't do you know business phone calls on you know up from the from From government property and things like that. Anyways, there is a specific thing that he basically
Carter
22:24
basically ignored. I mean, he just ignored it. He profited. His son-in-law profited. His children profited. Lest we forget,
Corey
22:32
forget, he held his renomination for the Republicans on the White House grounds. Yeah,
Carter
22:38
Yeah, I mean, so there are many things that are technically illegal that he has done.
Carter
22:46
I don't really care. You know, I mean, him him not being reelected was was enough to get me past those things. The insurrection, the the events of January 6th, the continued lies about the steal of this election, you know, and again, it's as articulated by Jack Smith in the indictment. It is fine for him to to run around and say this was a stolen election. I mean, I don't think it's morally right, but I get it. It's it's under their freedom of speech laws as arcane as they are. You can basically get away with saying anything you want if you're a public politician.
Carter
23:26
So what the hell? You know, go for it. Go go and try and, you know, convince people that you're right. Right. But when you start to use the the tools of the state to undermine an actual free election, that's going too far. And Jack Smith has put together, I think, a really stunning indictment that pushes that
Carter
23:49
gets to the heart of the matter of the thing that you and I objected to when we watched when
Carter
23:54
we watched September or September, when we watched January the 6th unfold in real time on television and we watched it and we were we were stunned. stunned this is the outcome that we had hoped for or maybe we hadn't even dared to hope for frankly because uh you know the united states has been such a backwards democracy of late
Corey
24:19
yeah well and the case really does hinge as you said and explicitly says which i thought was an interesting kind of defense in advance yeah
Corey
24:28
listen he can he can say whatever he wants about the election. That's protected speech. Where he has gotten himself into legal jeopardy is when he tried to, through, you know, coercion and fraud, interfere with a change in government. And so it identifies a number of very specific actions. Obviously, we all know about the fake elector slates. We know about him calling as president to the Secretary of State of Georgia and making comments about him potentially being in legal jeopardy if he didn't find those votes. And of of course there are the um you know the actions he took in terms of riling up the crowd and and then some like you know there's talking about how he used his justice department or he instructed them or he wanted them to create you know fraudulent claims of fraud so that he could then have pretext to do all sorts of crazy shit and that's where he broke the law well
Carter
25:24
well and it was it was also fascinating kind of going through and seeing in the indictment where his plot failed And how it failed, you know, like there were several people who stood up and said, no, this is wrong and we're not going to do it. And it is articulated, I think, in tremendous detail, step after step after step where individuals stood up and said, no, you've lost the election. This is not the way that we should be doing that. You are threatening the U.S. democracy. democracy um and he was told this on many many levels by many different people and members
Corey
26:00
members of his own party his supporters yeah
Carter
26:02
yeah i mean and he chose uh to ignore them um you
Carter
26:07
you know to just try and hold on uh for one more for one more kick of the cat here and we've
Carter
26:13
we've never seen a president of the united states do that we've seen presidents in other areas we've seen presidents in other other jurisdictions.
Carter
26:19
jurisdictions. We've seen tin
Carter
26:21
tin pot dictators do this, but we've never seen a president of the United States or a prime minister of Canada, a prime minister of Great Britain. In what we would think of as the modern democracies, we haven't seen this. And even in some of the less modern democracies, we haven't seen this. This was a stunning change for what we'd like to think is the leader of the free world, or maybe we don't like to think it, but certainly they like to say it.
Corey
26:52
Yeah. You know, one of the challenges I think that anybody
Corey
26:56
anybody who's relying on the justice system to solve this is dealing with is, you know, set aside the fact Donald Trump could win and just get himself out of jeopardy. It's the fact that the
Corey
27:06
the constitution of the United States generally prescribes political remedies for this impeachment. He was impeached and he was not convicted by the the senate so in some ways the body that was supposed to deal with this actively acquitted him and so now we have a situation where yeah
Corey
27:23
but you know it's just a challenging thing for me like is american democracy now just hinging on on
Corey
27:29
on court trial dates like this is really problematic for me i but we're seeing this
Corey
27:34
this we can all look at it and be like oh thank god somebody stepped in but
Corey
27:38
that's a really fragile system that we're talking about right now well i
Corey
27:42
mean it's hinging on this it's getting to this point everybody
Carter
27:45
everybody always likes to put in the united states likes to put themselves into the mindset of the framers right the mindset of the people who are drafting the constitution well the people who were drafting the constitution didn't think that anybody would ever run to be the prime to be the president they thought that the president would be kind of almost a a drafted position where you know uh men and it was all men who were only going to be considered would you know of of good stature and and uh of you know proper intellect and well respected the whole
Corey
28:13
of the electoral college was to kind of create a barrier between you
Carter
28:16
you know them and the
Carter
28:17
yeah we didn't want to have elections i mean that would be ridiculous um and so they they envisioned this system that that barely existed in their lifetime uh and is and is now completely gone and you know this this idea that the the courts or the you know that there's other institutions that will protect the organization i mean israel today this week um their supreme Supreme Court is now, you know, contemplating a law that was passed by Netanyahu's, you know, government that prohibits
Carter
28:50
courts from interceding in a law passed by the Netanyahu government. Yeah. You know, this is these
Carter
28:59
these democracies. They're not failing yet. They're not failing. They're not falling apart. They're not. It's not the end.
Carter
29:06
But there are fractures that we haven't seen in
Carter
29:09
in our life. I mean, we go back. Everybody always thinks of Watergate as this amazingly bad thing. Watergate was actually a pretty amazing reflection of the strength of American democracy. um
Carter
29:21
you know nixon was forced from government uh you
Carter
29:26
you know with without his own party
Corey
29:27
party turned on him yeah
Carter
29:28
yeah without a bullet without a shot being fired without anybody being put at risk without um you know when when men and women of principle uh stood up and said that they would no longer stand uh for this unprincipled person and today we see none of that we see none of that uh because those people aren't being fed the same information that we are. And they're not seeing the same info.
Carter
29:53
info. They're not seeing the same facts. And even if they do see them, they reject them out of hand. It's a challenging
Corey
30:02
Well, sure. And I guess my point would be now we sit here and we figure out how the courts are going to resolve this. And Donald Trump can still run from prison and he can do all of those things. And despite the multiple indictments, despite everything that has occurred in front of our own eyes that we now you will at least a huge chunk of the united states is telling themselves was a deception you know he's there's
Corey
30:26
there's a poll that came out this week new york times did yeah it's
Corey
30:29
it's tied with joe biden right
Corey
30:31
right now joe biden greatest
Corey
30:33
greatest president ever probably not
Corey
30:37
don't joe biden versus donald trump like i don't
Carter
30:39
don't know how the guy gets
Corey
30:40
single digits you you know, it's
Corey
30:42
bonkers to me, but here we are. And, uh, I don't know,
Corey
30:47
not hard to imagine a scenario where Donald Trump wins in 2024. And then what, like the gloves are off, man. Like no,
Carter
30:53
no, it's all over.
Corey
30:54
over. There were barely any norms before. Yeah.
Carter
30:56
Yeah. Donald Trump wins in 2024 and it's all over. I mean, the American, the great American experiment will be done. Like, tell me, tell me where the safeguards are. Tell me where the walls are. I mean, there are none. There are none. There's always some willing sycophant in the justice department. I mean, this is what we see with these unnamed co-conspirators that were all outed by the media in about seven seconds, except for the political one.
Carter
31:24
Yeah. But these unnamed co-conspirators, you
Carter
31:31
everywhere. And the reason that they're everywhere is that they will attach them. They're everywhere in our society. We know these people. These are the people who stand for nothing. who will attach themselves to anybody's wagon if they think that it will get them to where they want to go, regardless of the the character of the person that that's taking them there. I mean, it is it's
Carter
31:56
it's unbelievable to me.
Corey
31:58
So what are the lessons here, good and bad, in terms of I
Corey
32:02
don't know, like we've got a situation in America. Is Donald Trump so unique? Obviously, it doesn't feel that way, given the backsliding in other countries. israel hungary you you almost name it like you
Corey
32:14
go country by country and find brazil
Carter
32:17
brazil examples like this kind of step back into normalcy but well i mean sort of
Corey
32:21
of man but like that that whole you know situation down there is still kind of a fucking mess and i don't
Corey
32:27
don't know like uh it seems people have been emboldened it seems people don't care as long as it's their side the sports team mentality has taken total hold yeah
Corey
32:36
i feel it's pretty difficult to entirely blame things like social media and
Corey
32:42
and like the incentives seem to run to just say whatever you want get your base as wild and as mad as possible they will stay with you through anything you know just like calgary
Corey
32:53
calgary still has flames fans despite their uh you know records of failure so yeah
Carter
32:58
yeah i mean it's you know because you it's now sporting family sporting fandom um and and you know here's a bold uh bold bold statement for you cory i don't think that society trends towards democracy i think society trends towards um human beings doing utterly horrible things to other human beings that has been our history that has been the way the methodology by which we um existed uh and you know we've we've gone through this rather prolonged period of of liberalism uh but it's It's not necessarily, you
Carter
33:34
you know, something that is destiny.
Carter
33:36
Yeah, it is. It is something that has needed to be worked at from the beginning. And we were willing to invest in that for a long time.
Carter
33:43
But it required investment. It required people to participate in the, you
Carter
33:49
you know, in the process. And people,
Carter
33:52
people, you know, we've become so, oh, I don't even know who to vote for. No one exactly represents my point of view. Who am I going to even vote for? uh without recognizing that there are you know uh lesser evils and greater evils and we've
Carter
34:07
we've seen with donald i mean you remember well the the mantra of the anti-hillary right i mean uh
Carter
34:13
uh you know they're the exact same oh really okay i mean do we really think that the the clintons would have been uh you know organizing a a coup from the front steps i i i don't know i mean they didn't the first time now you know and
Carter
34:30
keeping in mind that that first time the the courts decided who the next president was going to be and bill clinton still walked out still walked out you
Carter
34:38
know it was not an easy election and it it had um much tumult and
Carter
34:45
and he still walked out the front door you know after uh welcoming uh jw into the or gw into the uh into the white house so So, you
Carter
34:56
you know, things have changed, things are always changing, and I just don't think we can take this great democratic experiment for granted.
Carter
35:04
Especially you and I, because you and I are like the first ones.
Corey
35:07
We're the first on the line,
Corey
35:09
a lot of trouble here. I'm
Carter
35:10
I'm dead first, you're probably going to make it to the mountains, eh?
Corey
35:15
Yeah, well, you're going to have the Stampede Mafia after you.
Carter
35:18
Stampede Mafia are already after me. it's uh i'm
Carter
35:22
i'm actually recording so-called the
Corey
35:24
the so-called from a
Corey
35:26
from a hidden you're undisclosed location yeah
Corey
35:27
hey so listen i you know this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine i want to unpack a little bit people are like oh maybe it's not human nature like listen animals
Corey
35:35
animals can be tribal they can be vicious they can be cruel they can be base and humans are arguably animals but i don't think that's human nature that's not what distinguishes us as a species what distinguishes us as a species is kind of higher faculties of thought the ability to override those base instincts you're talking about no
Corey
35:55
and i just i just i hate this kind of like fatalistic past like i guess this just this is how people be no people can be whatever they want that's the cool thing about being a person we can build a bridge we can write a poem we can have a democracy and just just kind of fucking nonsense that we're just going to kind of sit here and say You
Carter
36:11
You and I have, we
Carter
36:13
we have had this battle before, good versus evil. You always take the side that people are good. The only thing that we've been good at is mass killing other things. That's what we've been good at. If you look at every, every society on earth, every society on earth has been built on the bones of the society that existed before, literally built on the bones of the society that existed before. Jesus.
Carter
36:36
you know, I mean. Stands
Corey
36:37
Stands on the shoulders would be another way to put it. built
Carter
36:40
built on the bones and built on the bones and
Carter
36:43
and this you know we we've gone through a period where we have been disdainful of people who have you know killed but you know it's it's fascinating watching uh oppenheimer right go and watch oppenheimer great movie really enjoyable if you've got three hours to spare um you know go and see it cory you don't have three hours to spare you've got too many children
Corey
37:04
children but i do want to see it yeah
Carter
37:05
yeah wait it'll come out on video you can watch watch it over a couple of nights um
Carter
37:11
premise of the movie of course is the battle between hey
Corey
37:15
hey man no no spoilers no
Carter
37:16
no the battle internally about the power of the bomb and the power of society to have this um to have this weapon
Carter
37:27
weapon that can destroy humanity and you
Carter
37:31
know we've avoided it to this point but the fact that it was used at all the fact that harry truman was was able to say, you know what, let's just eliminate two cities. Boom. Done. I
Carter
37:42
I mean, I get the rationalization. I understand this idea that it was going to cost so many lives to invade Japan. I get it. I understand the rationalization. But someone had to make the decision to blow up entire
Carter
37:54
entire cities of citizens that did nothing wrong except being Japanese. Japanese and I think that that proves that in our recent history in less than 100 years we have been we have moved more towards evil than we have moved towards enlightenment and your argument while I appreciate it has always floundered because you you've seen only the bright side you see only the the
Carter
38:21
the good in people and I being smarter and a little bit more attractive of see nothing but evil well
Corey
38:28
look you pick your time frame and you can tell the story you want to tell but tell
Carter
38:32
tell me you can also make an argument pick the
Carter
38:33
the time let's talk
Corey
38:34
talk about since that bomb right and if we start talking about even
Corey
38:40
the number of deaths worldwide versus the 90s you know yeah
Corey
38:44
yeah those those terrible things they
Corey
38:47
smaller and less frequent as time has gone on since this point i mean
Carter
38:51
mean you just let
Carter
38:51
let me know when you want me to stop listing off genocides that continue i mean do you want to talk about the european genocides do you want to talk only about the african genocides which genocides should we avoid it's actually kind
Corey
39:04
kind of my point
Carter
39:05
no but the point
Corey
39:06
point is you act as though that this was like some sort of trend
Corey
39:09
trend that continued through unabated 1945 but there's an argument to be made that that was the high watermark of human viciousness and insanity right you know only in
Carter
39:20
in so far it was in
Corey
39:21
in all the newspapers it
Carter
39:22
it took us a a while to develop new tools i mean rwanda wasn't exactly a walk in the park uh you know bosnia bosnia herzegovina wasn't exactly a walk in the park i mean these are real life
Corey
39:34
life can you say herzegovina again no
Carter
39:37
no i can't just um unfortunately due to uh contractual audio
Carter
39:44
you know what i
Carter
39:45
i say it the way clinton says it with
Carter
39:48
with disdain and regret that's That's how I see it.
Carter
39:55
Fair. Fair. Fair. I mean, we can go back and forth. You and I have had this same conversation. Yeah,
Corey
40:02
Yeah, we have. We're subjecting other people to our reruns conversation. We
Carter
40:05
We did. I mean, our first time we had this conversation was in D.C. in 2013.
Carter
40:11
And we were talking about the tools of elections and how they could be misused. And I was on the side that, you know, we trend towards evil. and you were on the side of we trend towards good. And everything
Carter
40:22
everything since then has
Carter
40:24
has proven that I am right.
Carter
40:26
And everything since then has proven that you are wrong.
Corey
40:29
Well, I think you look at trend lines too narrowly, my friend. You
Corey
40:33
You know what? I
Carter
40:35
I'm glad you're optimistic. I
Carter
40:38
You know, I said to Heather, I devised a plan for solar panels on a trailer that we pulled behind the Tesla when the apocalypse happens. so she's
Carter
40:49
she's pretty impressed that i've thought it through what i didn't tell her is
Carter
40:54
is that i'm going to need some help building it i feel like noah building an ark right like i have no skills at
Carter
41:00
all and uh you
Carter
41:02
you know you to ask me to help um roof your
Corey
41:06
roof roof my house yeah
Carter
41:07
so in return can you help me uh put solar panels on a trailer uh
Corey
41:13
it's not actually that hard it's just a couple of panels and a converter it's i
Carter
41:18
i know and i think that i can survive for probably a couple extra weeks when it happens because that's
Corey
41:23
that's true but what were you going to do with that a couple of extra weeks like what would yeah i
Carter
41:27
i don't know but i have this idea that i might be able to make it for a while and then i remember i can't grow anything i can't hunt no
Carter
41:34
my only discernible run anything
Corey
41:38
when you start thinking about like game and you know hunting you're more on on the supply side of game than you are
Corey
41:44
the guy who knows yeah no
Carter
41:48
you're in a lot of trouble so
Corey
41:48
so as usual trump has taken us to a dark dark place dark place we've learned very little about political strategy in this conversation do
Carter
41:56
do you want to talk about some dark places here in alberta you
Carter
41:59
you know dark places without well i
Corey
42:01
i hear because it's so dark that's why solar doesn't make sense the sun doesn't shine all of the time steven and
Corey
42:08
and the wind doesn't blow all the time did you know this here's what i just heard this the other day how
Carter
42:13
how are we allowing ourselves
Corey
42:16
we might need to explain this to people outside the province yeah do
Carter
42:20
do you want to do it and in you
Carter
42:22
you haven't you i've done a lot of lifting today i've done a lot of lifting yeah
Corey
42:27
our our you know a moratorium was announced in alberta on the construction of new renewable energy for six to seven it's
Corey
42:37
it's actually crazy yeah and and the reason being it was like oh well and i want to preface like there
Corey
42:43
there are reasons government should intervene from a policy point of view and create stronger regulations maybe bonds for this green energy but it's basically along the lines of well you know they're going to build these things and maybe they block views of the mountains and they take up an awful lot of lent private land that the people willingly entered in contracts for but let's set aside and
Corey
43:04
you know just this and who's going to clean it up if this company's not here in 25 years who's
Carter
43:09
who's going to satire is
Corey
43:10
is dead satire is fucking dead
Carter
43:12
dead it's over because basically what
Corey
43:15
what you know this notion like
Corey
43:17
like well who's going to clean it up this company might not be here in 25 years i i don't know can we think of any other industry i
Corey
43:23
where this might possibly apply nope
Carter
43:25
nope no other industry in the province of alberta has ever had a problem with cleanup uh
Carter
43:29
uh not if you talk to d danielle you know what i love about this i love about this is that you're coming right off the heels of of basically saying that humanity trends towards good and and we run right into this government right into this government where they've worked so hard to undermine your position i
Corey
43:47
can i just okay so we're not even done talking about the wildness of this particular issue no we've done the renewable yeah
Corey
43:54
yeah they they were not the the renewable industry wasn't consulted no it was just announced without consultation the minister said newdorf said like i'm
Corey
44:02
i'm going to try to get around to talk to them this week effectively after this was made alberta
Corey
44:07
alberta open for business alberta now has now created this massive chill on investment by the way alberta has been going gangbusters on renewables three quarters of renewables in this country you
Corey
44:17
you know here alberta yeah
Corey
44:20
doing a little too well i think for the the comfort of the government. Now, again, there are reasons why the government would say we've got to approach these things a little bit different. We actually do need to make sure these things can be cleaned up. Someone's responsible. We need to consider all of the grid implications really thoroughly.
Corey
44:34
But there is a whole range of actions between doing nothing and shutting down all activity in the province. I just, I can't stress that enough. Pembina
Carter
44:45
Pembina Institute has put out a release that says 91 projects will be impacted, impacted representing 25 billion dollars in investment in the province of alberta that is so big it is so huge and the number of jobs that represents i mean this is the equivalent of an oil sands of several oil sands projects being built and they have just decided that because it is not in their preferred industry and that's all this is it's about their preferred industry they want to walk away from it and this capital by the way won't stay there's sunshine everywhere right
Carter
45:21
right there's sunshine everywhere there's hydro everywhere there is wind everywhere and it's going to go somewhere else because this capital is not going to wait for the province of alberta to pull its fucking head out of its ass is this what we wanted cory when we elected this government is this what alberta saw in our future i mean some of us i guess did but the rest of us you
Carter
45:42
you know this is disgusting i
Corey
45:44
mean it's it's truly remarkable to me that a government that talks about you know free market approaches a lack of red tape would
Carter
45:52
would take this particular
Corey
45:53
particular approach because again there's a million policy approaches that come short of this and and by the way even if you wanted to do this one why not talk to the industry about a way to do it in a way that would have the least economic consequences possible i i'm going to put it this way to you steven if you
Corey
46:08
you were trying to torpedo the natural energy or renewable energy in alberta yeah
Corey
46:14
could you come up with a better policy to do it than this no
Corey
46:17
no you because you've destroyed investment
Corey
46:19
investment certainty right like that's a real question mark now you have made it very clear you're willing to intervene against their interests and and you made it very clear you're going to put your thumb on the scale of what was supposed to be a free market solution and it's totally crazy to me and
Carter
46:36
and it can happen out of the blue right
Carter
46:38
right like so you don't you
Corey
46:39
you don't even you won't even
Corey
46:43
it's just over the end of the sopranos it just goes black for you yeah
Carter
46:46
yeah all of a
Carter
46:47
and you know who the biggest investors are in this alberto
Carter
46:50
alberto oil and gas companies well
Carter
46:52
well wait wait until they find out wait till they start getting the telephone calls from suncar cnrl uh enbridge incana or i guess it's not called Encana anymore. Wait till they start getting the telephone calls from all of these companies that are, you know, to the way of the environmentalists, whitewashing, right, or greenwashing their way to, you know, being able to extract fuels, right, for the future. That's what the environmental organizations would say. But these industries would say, we are looking looking at a new future and we are investing in them. And it doesn't matter what the power producer is. The power producer, the energy company, they're all renamed energy. There's no oil and gas companies left anymore. They're all energy companies. And they're all investing in this. And now the government that they wanted just shit down their throat.
Carter
47:48
And I think, you know what?
Corey
47:51
Alberta? You just want to watch the world burn. You do. do i
Carter
47:57
this is this is insane to me tell
Corey
47:59
tell me it's not insane this is madness to me it's madness because it goes against even like kind of stated beliefs in terms of you
Corey
48:07
you know for so many years we we heard renewables wouldn't exist if they weren't propped up by the government well now it seems that the government is actively trying to tamp down renewables and that's like you're you're railing against a setting sun here it's over man like renewables are going to be part of the energy mix in any scenario and this notion that you are somehow like
Corey
48:32
like what's the end game here this is this is crazy town you know you're just gonna be six months further behind plus you've uh antagonized all of this capital that made alberta interestingly
Corey
48:42
interestingly enough the center of renewable energy investment in canada right
Carter
48:47
right and and that capital is just so fluid i mean it's not it's not attached to a specific site right like it's just not attached i mean there are good one of the reasons that you know solar is so powerful in alberta is just we get a tremendous amount of sunshine um which is what you and i like but that's why we're here yeah uh because we're sunshiny people cory um but
Carter
49:09
but this sunshine it exists i don't know if you're aware of this uh united states a lot of sunshine a lot of
Corey
49:14
of sunshine in the united states uh
Carter
49:16
uh to the point right now where uh you know the entire country seems to be burning up uh because global warming blah blah climate
Carter
49:23
change i mean in a way the sun
Corey
49:24
sun but i you know you're you're kind of conflated some things there well you
Carter
49:27
you know i'm making it a better story as i do um as
Corey
49:30
as one does yeah but
Carter
49:31
but this is i
Carter
49:33
mean i'm trying to think of something that would be as dumb as this um and i guess to a agree it's it's you know saying well we don't want this type of development i mean you you've seen some governments reject oil and gas out of hand um except
Carter
49:53
except they were rejecting oil and gas on a declining market and we're rejecting uh so you know uh alternative energy uh renewable energy on possibly the largest growing market in the world i mean look what's going on in the states right now with their investment in uh alternative energy i mean it's just massive even what's going on in uh eastern canada with the investment in these battery plants i
Carter
50:20
mean the world is changing you and i have electric cars we are the future we do we are
Corey
50:25
are the future good point you
Carter
50:26
you know you can buy a f-150 electric right now for 50 grand 50
Carter
50:31
50 grand buys you an f-150 electric the
Carter
50:34
the world is going to change so like when ford is in this thing all in the whole world is fucking changing this is not some sort of flash in the pan that uh danielle smith hopes it is it's uh it's a big fucking deal and at least um i i cannot believe we live here and we're watching this in real time
Corey
50:55
well look i will say there's
Corey
50:56
there's there's two things from a politics political observer political strategy point of view i want to note here one is danielle
Corey
51:04
danielle smith pretty heavily foreshadowed this like she's made quite a few comments about oh i was down south and oh there were solar panels everywhere and i was so unsightly do you remember this i think we even talked about those comments on the pod
Corey
51:17
well we didn't know that was chekhov's gun i was you know danielle's quip right and that that meant it was going to come back and going to be used in a different way down the road and
Corey
51:28
so So if I were the opposition NDP, if I were Albertans, and I guess I am an Albertan, I would be thinking very carefully about comments that are considered offhand or even gaffes. Maybe not, right? Really think about what is in Danielle Smith's head when she says comments like that and where these things could potentially lead and be ready. And by the way, if I'm a company, I'm also having that same anxiety. I'd be worried. It's almost like Sovietology at this point. it like i'm trying to read the signs now because those signs do seem to telegraph some of the actions that are are coming down the road well
Carter
52:02
well and that's what makes this so weird really i mean this is a uh this
Carter
52:11
is the type of intervention that you would see in a communist in you know a communist economy not in a free market economy and this
Carter
52:19
this isn't just a small regulatory change this is a freeze this is insanity and it's unfolding right in front of us and you know i was saying a few weeks ago that i was thinking that the smith government wasn't going to be quite as dangerous because they weren't using the summer uh to hide some of their more crazy moves um sadly once again cory we have proven welcome august yeah
Carter
52:41
yeah listens to our podcast uh
Carter
52:44
uh danielle was waking up up going yeah we should be doing this this is a fucking horrible decision our only hope is that the oil and gas companies that are invested so heavily in energy uh and energy transition this
Corey
52:57
gets reversed you think yeah people lose their mind i
Carter
53:00
i think that this could be reversed because they are very you know daniel smith uh has a little bit of klein in her right klein's ability to walk back the bad decision was unparalleled and i think that daniel has that that has that skill set and we get to see now in real time whether or not she's able to uh
Carter
53:19
to marshal it and save us from the brink of a fucking horrific decision like really just horrible
Corey
53:26
yeah well look and i think here's the other thing that to me is is something
Corey
53:33
that i'm keeping my eye on obviously we've always known that the ucp government has held up this this past Alberta on a pedestal, this past Alberta that never really existed.
Corey
53:43
We've just got to get down to the fundamentals. Oil and gas are great. Why are we messing around with all these other things? That seems like an obvious continuation of it here. But at least under the Kenney government, there was this notion of we're not going to pick winners or losers. We're going to let everything bloom and we'll see what kind of works. This is a kind of an interventionist approach aggressively trying to pull us towards a past that we were in uh that i just don't think a lot of albertans think is the future and and so there's kind of this classic social democratic frame of forward not backward right like we want to go forward they want to go backward it's been used by governments and attempted governments for at least a century yeah
Carter
54:24
yeah right this is kind of this notion forever
Corey
54:28
they are i mean sometimes the old hits are the good hits and And they are really, really seeming to close off any kind of even
Corey
54:35
even like a smart bet on the future, even things Alberta was doing that seemed like they could be keeping the door open for a future that was not for oil and gas. And that's pretty dangerous because this is a fairly young province with a young population. I don't know. I just don't have a lot of confidence that people are saying, yeah, what I really want is less renewable energy. energy most of the conversations i have even with ucp supporters with kind of the soft skeptic side of like the ndp agenda are like it's too fast it's not going to happen on that timeline yeah
Corey
55:08
this is saying something entirely different this is saying we're not even going there yeah i mean and that's a problem for them most
Carter
55:13
most people in the industry will sit back and say well you know they're going to need us for for longer than my operation is going to be you know we're you know pumping pumping product and and there's some truth to that i mean we will always be using oil products. I mean, um, that's not going away. What is going away is the staggering degree at which we burn them. Um, we will not be burning oil and gas the same way, uh, in 20 years as we are now. And, and the biggest example of that is the, is the electric car. I mean, we, we use so much, um, energy in transportation and we are shifting the way that we're looking at transportation. That's great. That's great. No one's going to, you know, that's not a threat. That's an an opportunity and we
Carter
55:55
we had the ability uh and and you know what i was thinking cory if if zane were here here's what he would ask us he'd say okay you guys are railing about this you guys are saying this is all really bad here's the question what should the opposition do what should the ndp do if we were running the ndp and we were working with rachel notley right now what would you and i do so i'm going to put it to you first mr hogan what would you do if you were the leader of the the official opposition today that would send
Carter
56:26
send a message that would do something that that
Carter
56:29
kind of gets this this across yeah
Corey
56:33
yeah i mean part of it is rhetoric part of it is just making it clear that this is this is even by here's what i would say people voted for the ucp that you need to vote for you and you need to craft for them a reason to believe like oh this isn't what you you voted for right and so i can imagine something along the lines of like hey look it's one thing not to get on the bus it's quite another to stand in front of it and dare it to run you over like this government should take its own advice and butt out of this particular market and and just this is where the capital wants to go why are you standing in the way in investments in alberta jobs in alberta this is not saying there can't be jobs in oil and gas as well this is actively standing in front of people who want to create other jobs, more jobs, good jobs that could be there in any kind of energy mix going forward. And by the way, the investments in this space also has the opportunity to create entire new markets for us as we become leaders in this space and strengthen our position as an energy superpower. Really play on some of those sentiments, but really make it clear that this is a step beyond what Danielle Smith Smith promise. This is not the Daniel Smith agenda you thought you were voting for. I think you got to give people the excuse to come to you and just say like, oh, wow, this is not the thing that I thought I wanted.
Carter
57:50
Yeah. And I think that I think there's an unholy there's an unholy alliance there for the NDP. You'll recall when I'm not sure if you were there for this. You probably were when they rolled out the the carbon tax and the NDP had lined up all of the oil and gas executives to say how great this carbon tax was.
Corey
58:10
was. Well, I wasn't there yet. That was 2015. Okay,
Carter
58:12
Okay, so it was before you were there. Yeah,
Corey
58:15
Yeah, so as a consultant, I had worked with the panel, the Leach panel, on the consultation with Albertans, but I wasn't there. Yeah,
Carter
58:25
I think that this is an opportunity to create a little bit of that unholy alliance again. Build it up and say
Carter
58:34
say to people, This isn't necessarily our normal place, but this is very concerning. This is concerning to and stand beside the CEO of NMAX.
Carter
58:43
NMAX. I mean, there's going to be a lot of companies that are going to be out of a lot of capital. I mean, I'm thinking of Greengate. There are so many places where their world just got turned upside down. And the
Carter
58:59
the NDP should be working the phones hard today. And if they weren't working the phones hard today, then they should be making phone calls tomorrow to find every single person that was aggrieved by this. and pull them together in some sort of weird
Carter
59:13
weird alliance that immediately begins a campaign for the better part of three
Carter
59:19
three or four months. This can't be a non-issue by September. That has to be the great fear for Albertans is that we all forget about it by the end of the summer. That would be a real tragedy.
Corey
59:34
Here's the other thing I would say. There are a couple of elements that shouldn't be lost sight of. One of them is kind of that investment on certainty that will play with certain audiences, but not necessarily all of the audiences. But
Corey
59:46
then there is kind of like a natural fairness argument. And I think you could actually drum up a fair bit of concern in terms of like a capricious government willing to do anything it wants. Like, you know, hey, they didn't even talk to this industry before they decided to throttle billions of dollars in investment. What
Corey
1:00:03
What if they decide tomorrow that you're standing in the way of this vision they have? you know for all of their talk about creating this free alberta what they've done is they've created an alberta that's you
Corey
1:00:14
where their friends are free to do what they want and the rest of us are just supposed to take it yeah
Carter
1:00:19
mean they did they took no way they've taken no action on oil and gas ranchers right the people who rent our land rights to and get paid exorbitant fees by um oil and gas companies just to have you know provide rights you know of access to land that they don't own um this
Corey
1:00:37
this is actually the
Carter
1:00:38
the action that they've taken today is is against one very small group of people and i mean i always wanted to go after the oil and gas ranchers i've never understood why a government hasn't it just seems like such low-hanging fruit um but what do you do well
Corey
1:00:54
well here's another thing that absolutely slays me about this because i'm already seeing you know the reply guys coming by the way did you know the sun doesn't always shine i've learned that today yeah
Carter
1:01:05
yeah did you really but you're
Carter
1:01:06
you're still on twitter you know you're on x oh
Corey
1:01:08
oh yeah yeah i'm on x buddy yeah
Carter
1:01:11
i'm out of there this might
Corey
1:01:12
might be the day where i call it quits myself yeah
Carter
1:01:14
yeah probably not but
Carter
1:01:16
it's too much well
Corey
1:01:18
well here's the thing i would say yeah
Corey
1:01:21
the thing that slays me the most is everyone talking about like oh well you know we've we've learned from oil wells and it's a different you know there's the yeah so we've got to do this a little bit different this this is one of the regular replies, right? Like, wouldn't you say that we should have done more rigor with the, you know,
Corey
1:01:36
the orphan well situations? Like, A, yeah, absolutely. Like, this whataboutism doesn't mean too much
Corey
1:01:41
much to me, because
Corey
1:01:41
because I wouldn't have said shut down the oil industry while we try to figure it out, right?
Corey
1:01:45
right? But the second thing to keep in mind is subsurface mineral rights can be sold from underneath you. And you don't really have much of a say when somebody decides to come in and drill a well on your property. Yeah, there's some negotiations that occur but it's gonna happen these are people who are private landowners who wanted solar panels who wanted wind turbines on it yeah
Corey
1:02:06
and and they had every option to say no right
Corey
1:02:09
right like this is the thing these
Corey
1:02:12
these are not comparable issues you know this is like apples to orangutans
Carter
1:02:24
mean i hope that well enough randy
Carter
1:02:25
i just hope that the ndp i hope that you know another group that i would be looking for a big reaction from is municipal politicians this is going to impact their assets as well and municipal politicians should be up in arms nmax is still a major player in renewables they had significant investment plans uh they've also been in you know uh mandated with a uh requirement that they start to to work out more options on renewables and this is going to impact them dramatically so if you're a citizen of the city of calgary um you just got fucked too so welcome to the fuckery
Corey
1:03:09
uh one hour three minutes bud we did it yeah
Corey
1:03:12
hosts this where i mean it was a lot of you know two middle-aged men yell at clouds but uh that's okay i think well
Carter
1:03:20
i'm just happy that you added yourself to middle age this time yeah
Corey
1:03:25
yeah well i thought it was nice of me not to call you old yeah
Carter
1:03:28
yeah listen sorry about that you're like clinging
Corey
1:03:30
clinging on to sorry
Carter
1:03:31
sorry about that crack about your headphones i
Carter
1:03:35
feel bad now all
Corey
1:03:37
right what episode was that 1087 i
Carter
1:03:41
i don't know of the the strategist
Carter
1:03:41
strategist oh yeah you've written it up here 1037 i
Corey
1:03:44
wrote it up there yeah