Transcript
Carter
0:12
directed? This is the strategists.
Carter
0:16
Who is she directing
Corey
0:17
directing that? So we had a vote.
Carter
0:18
We had a vote.
Carter
0:20
I wasn't on the Discord today. Hi,
Corey
0:23
Zain's not here tonight, and Annalise is not here tonight. We have two hosts. I'm so angry
Corey
0:28
Wait. Oh, sorry. this is the strategist episode 1070 my name is stephen carter and
Carter
0:35
and i'm cory hogan that's
Corey
0:37
that's wrong too we've kind of blown this one a bit i think you blew yours on purpose though i did
Carter
0:43
you know the openings have been very difficult without a host and
Carter
0:47
and i just do not understand like
Corey
0:51
gotten a while but
Carter
0:53
but it's gotten out of hand remember we hired two hosts because you You and I, we realized after our last Carter and Hogan that
Carter
1:00
we needed a host, right? Do you remember that?
Corey
1:01
that? Yeah, so if this is your first episode, it's
Corey
1:06
Welcome to the strategists. Yeah,
Carter
1:08
but you need a host, right? Okay. So we hired two hosts, and now Zane's pissed because we hired Annalise, and he's not coming back till we deal with
Corey
1:18
that. And Annalise is pissed because we've promised to fire Zane forever, and we still haven't done it.
Carter
1:23
I know, and it's just not
Carter
1:27
it's not working really for any of us so mistakes
Carter
1:30
mistakes have been made yeah
Corey
1:31
yeah i mean that's that's a little bit of levity here we like to have fun on the strategist podcast the reality is zane is just refusing to come back until he's promoted to strategist and yeah annalise's
Corey
1:41
annalise's election contract ran out and she's refusing to sign a new one until
Corey
1:46
until zane is demoted to strategist so we're working it out there's
Carter
1:50
there's so many issues really on
Carter
1:52
on this podcast right now it's it's It's remarkable.
Corey
1:58
Well, Issues is the name of the game, my friend, because the Discord did vote for me to be host of this particular podcast. Are you sure? Are you sure? Yeah, I think so. Are
Carter
2:08
Are you sure? Because what you said is that they put a lot of C's.
Carter
2:12
And C stands for Carter.
Corey
2:14
I think it stands for Corey, but we'll never know. It's Carter and Hogan. Nor will we ask.
Corey
2:21
It's a good point. That is how we brand this podcast. Yeah. Big
Carter
2:26
listen yeah you know how it
Corey
2:28
it got cold in calgary it
Corey
2:29
it did get cold i'm wearing a sweater right now yeah
Carter
2:31
yeah did it create uh did
Carter
2:33
did you know discomfort
Carter
2:34
discomfort in your household did you did you and laurie have a little spat about
Carter
2:38
about it because no i wanted the heat turned up right because it's really cold i wanted the heat turned up and heather just wanted me to leave so So, and
Corey
2:50
and in fact, she wasn't even talking about the heat. No, she's
Carter
2:53
she's just leave, please. And anyways, it's quite a, quite a situation we got over here. I'm freezing. So if my, if my, if I, my teeth chatter, it's because we can't turn on the heat because it's the middle of summer, even though it's like a gajillion degrees below zero.
Corey
3:10
Okay. Well, that's good to know. I never have the heat on when I'm recording. I'm a professional. I don't need that audio scape. that's generally what i shoot oh
Carter
3:18
oh i mean i'm two levels above where my heater is so we can't hear it but yours is right
Carter
3:23
right beside you apparently yeah
Corey
3:24
yeah i'm living that dream living that basement dream one
Carter
3:27
one day we'll have a studio remember when we toyed we toyed with that idea
Corey
3:30
idea we used to talk about that yeah
Carter
3:32
yeah taking our discord money and putting it into a studio do you remember that not a discord our uh patreon yeah
Carter
3:40
then we were like instead
Carter
3:41
yeah we're like yeah we
Corey
3:42
we could could keep that money we thought that's great
Carter
3:46
then we started paying annalise and zane and um
Carter
3:51
yes now we don't get to keep any of it we
Corey
3:53
we don't make any money at all you and i now we just have obligations yeah
Carter
3:58
everybody but no more money from the podcast yeah it's wonderful yeah
Corey
4:03
yeah okay so what four minutes that's normal banter time right yeah i
Corey
4:07
so this is what people are looking for i mean when we we've
Carter
4:09
we've done longer do you want to do you want to try and doubled down
Corey
4:12
not even remotely do you want to hear about the show i've created here are we going to do this zane style where the segments sneak up on you like you're walking through an alley and somebody's hiding behind a garbage pail i
Corey
4:23
or are we going to do this different
Corey
4:24
different we're going to talk about what's on the agenda tonight i've
Carter
4:27
i've always appreciated just not knowing right
Carter
4:30
right it's sometimes i think i'd be i
Carter
4:32
think i'd be discouraged if i knew the topics in advance because i think you
Carter
4:37
you know the audience
Carter
4:39
audience deserves better right
Carter
4:42
maybe it's better that we don't know one of us should know though do you know what you want to do i
Corey
4:46
i do i have three segments here for us here three
Corey
4:49
and i could tell you turning into
Carter
4:50
into annalise in the last page all right we're
Corey
4:52
we're going to move on to the first oh
Corey
4:58
reflections on the election stephen carter this is our first public podcast since the election if you want to hear Here are instant reactions. If you want to hear Carter yell and scream and not apologize to Janet, then
Corey
5:10
then you can go to the Patreon episode that we recorded recently. The
Carter
5:13
The title of the episode is an apology to Janet. And that struck me as more than enough.
Corey
5:23
I don't know that it is. I didn't get any feedback.
Carter
5:25
No one said anything.
Corey
5:26
I mean, they're just not talking to you. So I think that should tell you how it's all going here. But if you want to hear.
Carter
5:31
If they're not talking to me, then it's a win-win.
Corey
5:34
If you want to hear our instant reactions to the election, assisted along by a host, then you can certainly listen to our most recent Patreon on that. If you want to hear our reactions after a day or two, this is the episode for you. So Stephen Carter, it
Corey
5:50
it is now Thursday, June 1st. It is 8.51pm Mountain Time, 10.51pm Eastern.
Corey
5:59
What is your thoughts about this election that we just went through three days ago here in Alberta? top line me?
Carter
6:05
Well, I mean, I think it was ridiculously close. You know, this election that in this province that is supposed to be, you know, a conservative province without any leanings left or any leanings to them, you know, to the middle, even because we're so conservative, it
Carter
6:21
it turned out we were pretty, pretty open to the idea of electing an NDP government or a UCP government and ultimately a few thousand votes either way and we and we are you know going back to the ndp and all of a sudden uh we have an ndp government which um you know i'm kind of glad we that it didn't go that way overnight because i think that if we'd woken up and that uh the election has shifted uh because of course the ucp were ahead when we all went when i went to bed but You guys stayed up late because you're young.
Corey
6:55
young. I stayed up. Yeah,
Carter
6:56
Yeah, I'm not young, so I went to bed. But if it shifted overnight, I think people would have lost their fucking minds, right? Like, it would have been like, we went to bed and the UCB were winning and we woke up and the counting machines gave it to the NDP. So I'm kind of glad that it just got close, that it didn't go over the top, because I don't have a lot of confidence that some of our more right-wing citizens would have have taken that particularly well uh but for the province of course i'm completely devastated that the uh the ucp is back and daniel smith is going to remain our premier it's uh not
Carter
7:34
not a great thing for the province but what
Carter
7:36
what do you do well
Corey
7:39
well let me tell you my thoughts i i think it was a close election in in the case of seats for sure absolutely it was a close election in terms of seats you you nailed it we talked about it on the last episode it's worth underlining here here, 1,300 people changed their mind or 2,600 people show up that didn't show up in the right places in six ridings. And this is an NDP government. And that's pretty crazy. We've never had an election that has gotten so close. So few votes would have fundamentally changed the outcome here. And I want to really underline this, especially for people not in the province of alberta it
Corey
8:14
it was what 1.6 1.7 million votes steven oh
Carter
8:18
oh yeah it's 2600
Corey
8:21
2600 new votes would have changed that election it was very very close uh when you think about it in terms of
Corey
8:28
the mechanics and the parties getting their vote out and the things that they could have potentially done that would have changed the outcomes and you said it on the last show if
Corey
8:35
if the weather was different in calgary that day maybe we have a different election if
Carter
8:39
if it's raining training and
Carter
8:41
and uh election day turnout goes down by five percent it's
Carter
8:45
it's it's a it's almost an ndp blowout right
Carter
8:48
right like that that is how close this election was um and i think that people need to understand that when when looking at what happens as we move forward right like uh it is a super close election um i'm hoping that uh no one claims significant mandate out of this because i don't think significant mandate was was earned well
Corey
9:08
well so this bridges into my reflection but i they will the ucp are claiming a significant mandate already they were talking about a strong stable government even the night of their surrogates who are on television and to be fair to them the overall popular vote was 52 to 44 right in the province but
Corey
9:28
there are a couple of things you got to keep in mind with that number first of all the ndp weren't trying to win the popular vote so their efforts were focused on winning seats. And it's the exact same as why I kind of roll my eyes whenever somebody says, Donald Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. Well, that's true. But if it was about trying to win the popular vote, his campaign would have made different decisions. That's the reality of campaigns. Campaigns gear themselves towards winning, not towards getting moral victories in terms of popular vote. That's just not a reality of things. Was the NDP likely ever to exceed the UCP popular vote? I don't know about that. But you know, in the rural areas, the NDP weren't even playing for by and large, right? They just
Carter
10:10
big, big, big roll ups on votes. Big,
Corey
10:12
Big, big, big leads there. When you get into Edmonton, huge
Corey
10:16
huge NDP lead, not as big as the UCP rural. And when you get into Calgary, NDP are winning Calgary in popular vote and in seats as well. So my reflection is this, and this is sort of my bridge into the reflection. It's kind of closely tied to yours here i
Corey
10:32
think that at the end of the day elections are really important and obviously they have consequences and now we're going to have four years of ucp government and depending on who you are and how you feel your mileage is going to vary on that fact steven obviously deep
Corey
10:45
deep anxieties about that i understand that yeah
Corey
10:48
but i will say if you want to take a broader view of this if you want to step back one step the
Corey
10:54
the fact of the matter is Because
Corey
10:56
the difference between losing by 2,600 votes and winning by 2,600 votes is pretty immaterial, right?
Corey
11:03
right? Like when you think about who the province is and what the province is and the demographics and the story it tells you about modern Alberta, I'm not saying there's no consequences here. What I'm saying is what it tells us about Alberta shouldn't fundamentally be different because of 5,000 votes one direction or another. Can we sort of agree on that? Well,
Carter
11:22
I mean, you're trying to make it this moral victory that I've really rejected. I'm not trying to make it a moral victory. Some sort of, you know, look at who we are. We're different than we think we are. Well, we're not
Carter
11:34
we elected a lunatic.
Corey
11:34
lunatic. I'm not fucking trying to do that. Yeah,
Corey
11:36
you're not. I'm not trying to do that. That's what you're doing. I'm not trying to say, hey, look at us. I
Carter
11:39
I mean, look at you so
Carter
11:41
inadvertently taking us to this place then.
Corey
11:43
Yeah, I know. That's where I kind of...
Corey
11:51
Demographics are destiny. And
Corey
11:53
And the demographics of Alberta have fundamentally shifted. Our politics have fundamentally shifted with them. The NDP have gone from 5% of the vote in Calgary to 34% two elections in a row to 49% and counting. And this has kind of changed the game in Alberta, regardless of what the outcome was on Monday. This is now a competitive province. The UCP can't deny it. The NDP aren't going to deny it. and that's going to change the way even a ucp government has to approach things or else they're going to get fucking crushed in 2027 i think that's kind of interesting i think that in many ways you can make the case that alberta is a much more competitive landscape than quebec or
Corey
12:37
you're right about the one thing right yeah
Corey
12:39
well for sure saskatchewan jesus christ like
Corey
12:42
like this is a pretty robust political environment at this point and i think that that's interesting And that's something that we should all be watching no matter where we are in the country. Well,
Carter
12:50
Well, I mean, that took you a good 30, 35 minutes to get there. But now that you've gotten to that point, I understand why you were making that. Thank you. There
Corey
12:57
There you go. That's my reflection on the election.
Corey
13:01
That's pretty good stuff.
Carter
13:02
stuff. My God, like that. Yeah.
Carter
13:04
That is a pretty solid start for just you and me being here.
Corey
13:09
don't you think? I think so.
Carter
13:11
I think that people are just going to be, I mean, you and I, when we started the episode So before we started recording, you know, we both kind of indicated that this was probably going to be a shit show. And so far, I
Carter
13:22
I think we've done way
Carter
13:23
way better than a shit show.
Carter
13:27
Way better. So congratulations to us.
Corey
13:29
Congratulations to you. Congratulations to me. Do you got any more reflections before we move on? Anything you want to throw on the pile? I have a few questions that are reflection-based questions, but do you have any opening thoughts? I don't
Carter
13:39
don't want to take away from our fantastic 75-minute, almost 90-minute, actually, episode that we did with Annalise before she fucked off on us in a snit. So
Carter
13:54
pay your money, guys. Go listen to that episode. That was fantastic. That was some of your best work, Corey.
Carter
14:00
Not only were you insightful, you were humorous. uh you
Carter
14:04
you know i don't
Carter
14:06
don't know what kind of pep talk laurie gave you but it was it really worked thank you laurie listen
Corey
14:10
listen steven if i'm going to be honest with you yeah you
Corey
14:14
you really nailed how insightful i was in that last comment of yours thank
Carter
14:19
you know what people
Carter
14:20
said that i've been mean to you on
Carter
14:22
on the podcast and
Carter
14:24
and i think i've just proven them wrong yeah
Corey
14:27
yeah there you you go okay
Corey
14:29
okay i do want to get your reflections on two specific things okay one let's start here the state of the ucp this election has happened it's
Corey
14:39
it's not a huge win for the ucp they can pretend it is but it's like uh my old friend kent hair likes to say you lie to your friends i'll lie to my friends let's not lie to each other was not a good night for the ucp they
Corey
14:52
they held on but barely
Corey
14:56
is the status of the ucp what's
Corey
14:58
what's that party looking like today what's that party looking like over the next few months that
Carter
15:02
that party to me it looks an awful lot like the uh the uh conservative party of canada and insofar as you know it was brought together by one person um you know the conservative party of canada brought together by stephen harper the uh ucp brought together by Jason Kenney.
Carter
15:19
And since Stephen Harper has left, they've lost every election. They don't really know how to appeal to the electorate. They do not have that momentum that others, you know, that Harper brought to the table. And they're a little bit lost. And I think that the same type of situation is going to exist here for the UCP. Because the UCP didn't do great. And there's going to be two arguments for why they didn't do great. One argument is going to be they went way too far to the right way too far to the right they lost calgary because they were so far to the right um you know danielle smith and and the take back alberta stuff was exceptionally damaging to them and their brand and that's one argument that's going to be told and the other argument that's going to be told is um we lost conservatives you know there was a hundred thousand conservatives that voted last time that didn't vote this time and the reason they didn't vote this time is they They didn't feel we were conservative enough. If we'd only been more conservative, then we would have been able to bring in all of those people. And the reason I can say these things with such confidence, I've heard these arguments before. I've heard these arguments when the Wild Rose existed. I've heard these arguments when the floor crossing happened and Jim Prentiss wound up losing in 2012. All of these arguments have been around for a long time. And the
Carter
16:38
the proponents of each of these arguments very rarely
Carter
16:43
rarely back away from the position. They dig in and they believe with all their heart that Albertans are the way that they see them.
Carter
16:53
And polling, numbers, data, none of those things matter. What matters is the way that people feel. And I think that this is going to be one of those splits that's very hard to reconcile, like what the Conservative Party of Canada is. I mean, maybe Pierre Pelliev is able to pull it all together, but I just don't think he will. So, you know, I think that that's the state of the UCP. Danielle Smith's going to be facing a mandatory leadership review sometime within the next year. When she faces that leadership review, she is going to have to either appeal to the moderate side or appeal to the take back Alberta side. And I don't know that appealing to both of those sides simultaneously would be available to her. if it is she's a hell of a talented politician um
Carter
17:40
and we'll be watching well
Corey
17:42
well you know you threw a few things on the table i want to follow up on first is like is there a moderate side to the ucp right
Carter
17:49
well i think that i
Carter
17:51
i think that if you're on the far right the
Carter
17:53
the far right like the far right calls me a communist right and i used to be a progressive conservative uh chief of staff right I'm not exactly a communist. I mean, relatively
Carter
18:07
relatively free trade kind of fella. Kind of went down that path.
Corey
18:12
Relatively free trade kind of fella. You should put that on a business card.
Carter
18:17
It is on my business card. I
Carter
18:19
I would have given
Carter
18:20
given you one of my business cards, except I really don't want to work with you. That's fair.
Carter
18:27
Anyways, my point is this.
Carter
18:31
The far right isn't like a
Carter
18:36
normal group. The far right is far right. And they look at anything that
Carter
18:42
that brings the word pragmatic into the conversation as a selling out of the true value of conservatism. And I think that that's where Danielle's going to find herself. I honestly do.
Corey
18:59
So can I ask a question about, I want to follow up on this. This is interesting to
Corey
19:03
Because I think underlining some of the things you've said here suggests that maybe you don't believe that the far right is correct, that the problem is they put too much water in their wine. I think
Carter
19:15
think that there's always a middle, and I think that the middle was less catered to by the UCP than would be wise for the long term. I think that the middle
Corey
19:31
want to push back a little bit, though, or I at least want to challenge it and get your reaction to a couple of things that I would observe. One is, if you actually read the UCP's platform this time around, pretty,
Corey
19:42
pretty, pretty moderate, you know, most of the things that are the most aggressive, I think are reserved for the section on fighting with Ottawa, or like basically all of their commentary on that. Yeah.
Corey
19:52
And then otherwise, it's pretty middle of the road, you know, guarantees around healthcare, the language around education, it obfuscates perhaps their personal views, but it's not a really wild platform.
Corey
20:04
So that's one. Two is when I think about probably the most conservative platform in recent times, it's Jason Kenney's, which was also the largest majority in terms of votes, raw votes in Alberta's history and higher than this time. So maybe maybe some evidence supporting that argument that, you know, true conservatives wouldn't have stayed home. And then the third thing I'll say is
Corey
20:26
is it's it's you know, it doesn't take a lot of time to say it's
Corey
20:30
it's three syllables is Jim Prentice.
Corey
20:35
three syllables. See, see how Jim Prentice is three syllables. Yeah,
Carter
20:39
I really wasn't interested in counting syllables. But thank you for thinking that that would it
Corey
20:43
it felt like it felt like you were waiting for another syllable. level no
Corey
20:48
here's what i want to say to
Carter
20:49
to all of that motivation
Carter
20:50
motivation this is this this type of of critique has been around for a very long time again i have seen it in the in the ucp for or the wild rose or any of their predecessors for a very very long time and they always come up with statistics just like the ones you came up with and they say see see you know i remember vitor marciano running around and telling me that you
Carter
21:10
you know there were 300 000 more people that voted for the for the federal conservative party in federal elections than did vote for the pc party and the wild rose in in
Carter
21:19
in provincial elections and that just proved we
Carter
21:22
we weren't conservative enough and i and i said well no that that proves that there's probably different motivations for voting in a federal election than there is for voting in a provincial election so when you talk about um prentice getting uh fewer votes and kenny getting more votes um these are statistics these These are absolute truths, absolute truths. But the reasoning
Carter
21:43
reasoning for the votes is different. The rationale, how people approached it. People voted against Jim Prentice, not because he was Jim Prentice, but because he represented all of the conservative
Carter
21:55
conservative rule for that period of time and then had the audacity, the audacity, I tell you, to blame it on us, you know, the voters who had selected this for so long. So
Corey
22:07
So we took it out
Carter
22:10
took it out on him and we we made sure that he was punished um
Carter
22:13
um and then we you
Carter
22:14
you know we move on to jason kenney jason kenney's not running to replace the end you know in a regular
Carter
22:21
regular race to replace the the ndp jason kenney's in fact running to restore our economic prosperity right it was because the ndp had destroyed destroyed i tell you our our economic opportunities because of that worldwide oil slump that people seem to attribute only to Alberta. But these are the reasons why we see different outcomes, right? It is not, you
Carter
22:48
you don't hold on to your positioning. Some people do, but very few people hold on to their positioning from election to election. They just don't care that much. They may hold on to their brand position, but their reasoning will shift from time to time. And I don't think that you can do that when you're talking about, you know, how secure is the UCP today? I think the UCP has still got two factions within it. And I still think those two factions are going to get a war with one another.
Corey
23:13
And fair enough. I asked you the status of the UCP. And so maybe that's the bottom line. They feel like there's two factions and those two factions are going to fight. But you've opened up a thread I want to pull on a little bit here. You've revealed a thread. it sounds great
Corey
23:28
you've you've given me a lot of counterfactuals as to why the far right of that party might be wrong give
Corey
23:34
give me some evidence that maybe the center might be right or maybe you think they're both wrong the
Carter
23:39
the center might be right or that the yeah
Corey
23:41
yeah that they need to be more moderate the center might be correct i guess i like to really confuse it yeah
Carter
23:47
yeah no that question was completely completely undecipherable
Carter
23:50
undecipherable or indecipherable or whatever however you
Carter
23:53
you say that that word.
Carter
23:54
Obviously, I don't care, because we're not talking in full sentences. Why is the
Corey
24:03
Yeah, like, what evidence do you have that being more moderate would actually lead to more electoral success?
Carter
24:11
the evidence shows, so the evidence I'm going to go back to is how do we, you know, what do we see when we poll Albertans? And I'm not talking about party preferences. Let's remove party preferences from the discussion. What we discover is that we share, we have what can only be described as small L liberal values. So if we were to compare the values to the United States, we would say, what values do we have? Where do they compare to? And they compare more to Democrats than they do to Republicans. They compare more to people who who value society we value things like um collective health care we value things like uh collective social safety nets we value public education yeah
Corey
24:57
yeah we'd be run out of fucking vermont no we would
Carter
25:00
be we are so far to the left of where even the even the the uh democrats really are in the united states that it's almost comical um
Carter
25:13
but as soon as you start putting party overlays onto that party
Carter
25:16
party overlays, like progressive conservative, um, people will then start identifying as conservative. Well, I would, I would really love to go back and take a look at the, at the policies of, uh, of, of Peter Lougheed through today's lens. Would we be saying that this man is a conservative on any front, right? He, he was, he was big into, um, you know, know, provincial ownership of, of industry. He invested heavily, uh, in technology to help corporations. He, you know, there, there was, there was a, a big government hand in the economy all
Carter
25:53
all the way through the law. He had years, uh, he, he, his,
Carter
25:57
his, his commitment to the arts was unparalleled. He, um, you know, he was, he was a guy who believed in a social framework, um, For our province. And I think that if you were to go back and look at his real legacy, rather than just looking at it with our eyes, you know, already half closed and to say he was a conservative, he really wasn't a conservative. And so we
Carter
26:21
we love the values that he brought. We loved that guy. We loved what he brought to it. But we misconstrued him as a conservative. And then we misconstrued Ralph Klein. I mean, every conservative's favorite Premier is Ralph Klein. Well, which one?
Carter
26:37
Ralph Klein, the guy who did all the cuts? Ralph Klein, the guy who cut spending in every department from 1993 to 1997? Or the guy who, from 1997 to 2006, increased our per capita spending to the highest in the country?
Carter
26:53
Which Ralph Klein do you want? Because you can only have one. You can't have them both. So
Carter
26:58
So that's when I talk about, you know, we're not as conservative. We love Ralph Klein. We love Peter Lougheed.
Carter
27:04
We didn't like when Jim Prentice said we have a spending problem, right?
Carter
27:08
right? We didn't like that. We don't want our taxes increased. We don't want to pay for anything. We just want all the services. Thank you.
Carter
27:16
that's not real conservatism. And that puts us in the center. So when you say, what evidence do I have? The evidence is what we say until we add the party brand. and when the party brand gets overlaid everything changes all
Corey
27:29
all right well that's a premiere from 40 years ago and a premiere from 20 years ago but we're gonna move on oh
Corey
27:35
and we can talk more about that i
Carter
27:37
i was talking about data
Carter
27:38
data i was trying to give some oh my god okay go go ahead i'm
Carter
27:43
i'm so glad you're hosting the show man
Carter
27:46
man my blood pressure i'm not gonna be able to sleep okay
Corey
27:51
let's talk Let's talk about the NDP. Tell me about the state of the NDP right now. Maybe I'll do a Zane Velji-style preamble to get mine on the table here. Oh, great. That's good. Give you a little bit of time because, you know, you probably couldn't figure out where this was going after I asked you about the UCP. I'm pretty angry right now. You're probably thinking a bit about this here. Yeah.
Corey
28:09
So we have the NDP. NDP lost a close election. Obviously, always hurts to lose, right? But as we've both talked about, a couple thousand votes could have been a totally different way.
Corey
28:20
Also, this is a leader in Rachel Notley that brought the party from nowhere to everywhere to somewhere, you know, and everything in between, too.
Corey
28:30
Clearly, clearly well regarded by her party. Clearly, everybody's going to give her the latitude to make the decision she wants to make. So let's just take that as something we both agree. Yeah.
Corey
28:41
Like, this is not, like, will Rachel Notley pass a leadership review? Yeah, she'll pass a leadership review. you, my God, if Andrea Horvath can have four kicks at the can, you know, one of the most talented politicians of her generation can have a fourth if she wants, right? One who actually was premier for one of them. So that's all, let's take that as a given. The
Corey
29:03
The state of the NDP right now,
Corey
29:05
Rachel Notley, leader, but already starting to see, an undisputed leader, but we're already starting to see people say, is
Corey
29:13
is the mistake that the NDP went to left? Is the mistake that the the NDP went too right? Is the mistake that the NDP were too tied to the federal NDP? Is it some combination of all of these things, depending on what you want to cut it on? And my question for you, in some ways, it's the parallel of your answer to the UCP is, what's going on with the NDP? Where are they? Where are they going to end up? What should we be keeping our eye on coming out of this election? Well, here,
Carter
29:38
here, I'll tell you my great fear for the NDP. My great fear for the NDP is they say, oh, my God, we were so close. It could have gone either way. Let's just keep everything the same way right
Carter
29:46
right everything if we just do
Corey
29:47
do it that's that's so interesting that's not a fear of mine because like we said the weather could have given them the government the
Carter
29:53
the weather could have given them the government but the next election won't be the last election what is our what is our one of our primary rules on this podcast yeah
Corey
29:59
yeah that's right politicians right always fighting the last war this
Carter
30:04
this war is over this
Carter
30:05
this war you lost and now the next war whether Whether it's, you know, there's a snap
Carter
30:10
snap election and after, you
Carter
30:16
what's her name? Smith, that's her name. Who can remember that? It's so generic. After Smith is tossed overboard by the right-wing fanatics to take back Alberta and David Parker is installed as the leader and they lose the government because, you know, the four moderates finally find a backbone and walk away. way. And the NDP says, all we have to do is what we did last time. And I just think if they did what they did last time, they'll lose by more because we will have moved past that. When we're talking about what the NDP should be doing, I
Carter
30:51
I mean, yeah, they should take a look. Did we go too far to the left or did we go too far to the right? I think that they went almost perfectly down the middle but i think that the challenge was they weren't giving back to the people right
Carter
31:07
right we talked about us and them uh
Carter
31:09
uh branding how many times cory how many times do we talk about us and them branding and having the the ndp stand up for us and protect us from them and instead of doing that the ndp uh couldn't tell a story and didn't put themselves in a position of of success um and i think that that meant that it didn't matter if they were far to the right or far to the left they just didn't communicate it properly uh and i and i don't mean like the advertising i mean like literally the leader couldn't tell a story and we saw that in the debate so my thinking about where the ndp is is that if rachel stays as and we and i agree with you she's earned the right to decide for herself if rachel stays then she needs to determine she She needs to look in the mirror and say, what is it that I need to do differently so that people perceive me differently?
Carter
32:03
And that could be any number of different things. But if she comes back and she does the same playbook, she will lose by more, not less, in the next election.
Corey
32:16
well, we're going to leave that there. Obviously, talking about what happened in this election is going to be a lot of the the next couple of weeks a we're albertans sorry everybody else it's going to be a minor obsession b we got to get zane velji back on if we can get past this contract dispute with him because he worked on this doesn't this feel like
Carter
32:34
like another chester thing though like fuck
Carter
32:38
like he fucked us so solidly and now here we are getting fucked again by zane
Corey
32:43
zane replaced him with zane because we thought there's no way the way we structured it was zane that he could possibly possibly cause us troubles well
Carter
32:49
well i mean who'd
Carter
32:51
who'd have thunk the guy would have shown a backbone like i didn't i mean it was unexpected to be sure yeah
Corey
32:59
we're all a little upset about it annalise
Carter
33:00
annalise well we we knew when we brought her in that she was from
Corey
33:03
from the start yeah
Carter
33:04
yeah she was more capable than we were and she was going to run the show um
Carter
33:08
um but uh man
Corey
33:10
we're saying zane was
Carter
33:12
was always our little puppet
Carter
33:14
our little puppet and
Corey
33:17
here we are it's
Corey
33:18
it's no good yeah
Carter
33:19
it's not good at all okay
Corey
33:21
all right we're gonna move it on to our next section here
Corey
33:25
our next section accountability session steven carter oh
Corey
33:28
we have talked about the ucp we have talked about the ndp we've thrown stones at the things they've done the strategies that we've disliked yeah
Corey
33:37
but i think it's rightfully so by the
Carter
33:39
the way rightfully so a
Corey
33:41
a little bit of self-reflection we gave
Corey
33:44
gave advice we gave advice throughout this campaign to both parties we gave recommendations we said this was a good idea this was a bad idea and now after this election i think it it behooves us to give ourselves some of our own medicine here and sit and talk about maybe
Corey
33:59
maybe the things that we have come up with that we're not so sure about anymore and this is not a situation where i'm I'm going to sit and say, Stephen, I think this advice of yours was wrong, and you're not going to say, Corey, I think this advice of yours was wrong. That's
Corey
34:11
because that would have gotten awkward. We're going to talk this out.
Corey
34:12
Yeah, well, I would get a little vicious, I think.
Corey
34:16
We're going to talk this out.
Corey
34:18
So what's going to happen here is we're going to take turns.
Corey
34:22
I'm going to say something that I said that I think upon reflection was not correct, or maybe a better way to put it is, I'm not so sure about anymore.
Corey
34:31
Then you're going to do the same, but
Corey
34:34
but about you, just for clarity, because I could already see the wheels turning. Well,
Carter
34:37
I was immediately thinking of several things you said that were really halfway. So I'm glad you cleaned that up for me right away.
Corey
34:45
Okay. And we're each going to do two. We're going to do one for the UCP and one for the NDP. Okay. So start thinking. I'll give you a minute here. Wow, I have to come up
Carter
34:52
up with one myself?
Corey
34:54
because it's you saying something that you yourself did wrong. But I've got my ego, and you
Carter
34:59
you know how that works. That's
Corey
35:01
good news is I'm going to go first. Okay, you go first. I'm going to go first. And then we're going to talk about it. Then we're going to move on to the next thing.
Corey
35:09
So one of the things we talked about that the NDP shouldn't do, and I think I was pretty firm on this, was they shouldn't get lost in the economy. That time spent proactively talking about the economy and really making the economy their centerpiece message, that
Corey
35:25
was time they were in the UCP's box. That was time where they were discussing an issue that lent to the UCP being the solution. Old
Carter
35:34
Old-fashioned message box theory. Yeah.
Corey
35:38
hard not to acknowledge that
Corey
35:41
where it looks like a lot of people have pointed to and said there are some challenges here is that there weren't necessarily NDP answers on some of their economic policies, right? Or at least those answers didn't seem to float to the front. and so upon reflection in this 60 40 business of ours i wonder if
Corey
36:02
maybe one of the things that we said that was not right that i said that was not right i'm not going to throw it to you yeah
Corey
36:08
is you've got to speak about the economy less you've got to talk about health care you got to talk about affordability well
Carter
36:13
well that's fascinating so
Carter
36:16
so you think that that was a mistake you think that that advice that you gave to the ucp that's
Carter
36:20
that's grounded solidly in message box theory right
Carter
36:24
that political practitioners around the world use um
Carter
36:29
you think that that might have been wrong well
Corey
36:32
well so i'm wondering but your comments make me think maybe you think otherwise no
Carter
36:36
no i mean there's no way you were wrong i mean every time you
Carter
36:39
you know you when people
Carter
36:41
people say you know you lost because you didn't talk about the you know you were talking about the economy i I mean, really? I just don't see that. I don't see that as actually true.
Carter
36:51
So I think you were bang on.
Carter
36:55
think you were bang on. I almost sneezed there. I
Carter
36:57
I almost sneezed because I hate agreeing with you.
Carter
37:01
But no, I think you were bang on. I think that that advice was exactly what the NDP needed to hear to be reminded that
Carter
37:08
that there are areas of the topic, you know, of topics and conversations that they can win on. and that they should focus on those winning arguments so i'm sorry my friend uh as much as i love to i'm feeling a little awkward because i'd much rather just like take
Corey
37:29
here's the thing there was like there was the one of the things that conservatives i talked to point to say one of the big errors that the ndp made was
Corey
37:36
was that they had their uh you know corporate tax increases and
Corey
37:42
they provided no framework around it they provided no story they they didn't talk about the economy you're
Carter
37:46
you're mixing it up right
Carter
37:48
that wasn't that they should have been talking about the con the the the economy that was you shouldn't be releasing a tax policy without some sort of economic policy
Corey
37:57
policy okay right so yeah
Carter
38:01
can't say oh look they screwed this up by putting this thing you know this this tax policy
Carter
38:06
and they they shouldn't have been talking about the economy when really
Carter
38:10
really you know like they sure they could have they could have have framed that better but
Carter
38:14
but they could have also just not done that and that would have
Corey
38:18
have actually been stayed in their message box right
Carter
38:20
right so your advice was correct they
Carter
38:24
they should have stayed in their message box so i've
Corey
38:27
one though i've got one okay okay so i don't have one so far it sounds no you're
Carter
38:32
have to think more you have to think more
Corey
38:34
more about yours because
Carter
38:37
have that they you know we told them to stay in their 48 not to get excited and to start pushing out into ridings that um they could have won you know like when we're looking at how close things were when we're looking at how close they were maybe they should have just opened up themselves just a little bit more you know there were there were so many ridings that were so close if they just opened it up and and said i'm going to tackle this um and we're gonna we're gonna now go to 52 53 ridings right
Corey
39:11
right maybe no way no you're no way maybe no way what do you mean like maybe you are now the one who's got to put their idea back in the oven here there's no way keep going i know where you're going you're so wrong it
Carter
39:23
it was so close like if if they just opened it up and allowed themselves to put the resources in every specific situation i think that they would have had a chance to to you know really really maximize the potential vote that they had available to them no
Corey
39:39
no no no no no no no so now i
Corey
39:43
i am going to tell you this okay in
Corey
39:45
in your defense you've had 30 seconds to think about this which is why your idea is so stupid at this particular moment okay
Corey
39:55
but But here's the problem. You're not just
Carter
39:56
just doing this because I did this to you, right? Yeah, I'm not. That would be awkward. You know what?
Corey
39:59
what? I don't like this. I would have done that. I don't like you just kind of like- I absolutely
Corey
40:02
would have, but I actually have a strong
Corey
40:07
I think one of the things that with the benefit of hindsight was not
Corey
40:11
not optimal by the NDP was we were, and man, you know this, we were talking to the same people. I'm not going to put anyone on blast, but we are hearing comments like Pegan might be in play. We're thinking Lawheed's numbers are coming in really strong. These are ridings in Calgary that at the end of the day, we're not in play. Yeah.
Corey
40:29
We were hearing things in the donut that we were thinking like Leduc, that might be in play, not fucking in play. And, you know, ultimately it was so bloody close in the places that were in play that the NDP were on the wrong side of.
Corey
40:44
There is no way that they should have moved to broaden the actual like battlefield here. if anything that battlefield the path to victory was so narrow there
Corey
40:53
there was one path to victory it was available to them they almost got it they came really close different weather could have done it but
Corey
41:00
but that should have been the only focus the idea of extending it to this mythical 52 riding map that you're talking about yeah
Corey
41:08
it's there's it's not happening like walk me through the seats you think between 45 or 46 and 52 so
Carter
41:15
so you would have focused just all the attention on like Like Bow, North, East, Cross, that we're supposed to be one. You
Corey
41:22
You mean the ones that if they had won, they would have won the election? Yeah, I think that would have been a great strategy, Stephen.
Carter
41:29
Okay, so maybe I was incorrect in that one.
Carter
41:32
Okay, you know what? Maybe the problem is we gave a lot of advice. We gave a lot of advice
Carter
41:36
to the NDP. Maybe
Carter
41:37
Maybe our problem is that we're just too close to the NDP. And we should probably, if
Carter
41:42
if we picked apart the advice that we gave to the UCP, we might be more successful.
Corey
41:46
successful. That's where we're going next. already told you this is where i'm going okay
Carter
41:50
okay you take me there then take
Carter
41:52
home country road do
Corey
41:54
do you want to i'll go do you want do you have one because i have one but you sound like you have oh
Carter
41:59
oh i have one for no
Corey
42:00
no i'm gonna go okay i got one too i'm gonna go let's say i'm at the same okay
Corey
42:06
oh i was gonna say health we dismissed
Corey
42:08
the arena first right
Carter
42:09
right off the bat right yeah remember that was like yeah it will not be an issue in this election yeah uh we we said it like that emphatically that emphatically it was like the arena will not move any votes and here we are sitting on the wrong side of two to three thousand votes right and obviously you know when you invest 330 million dollars in downtown calgary um downtown calgary comes out for you and votes for you right i mean the downtown regions were
Carter
42:39
were all about the ucp they
Carter
42:45
they supported the ucp madly because they wanted to have this investment in their community um
Carter
42:51
and i think that that it turns out that i think that telling them to not focus on that was a mistake i
Carter
42:58
think that they were i think now
Corey
42:59
now you are you are now just trying to say things that you know are are actually solid advice this is my theory now because there's the arena was actually a obviously downtown calgary did not go to the ucp despite that arena love that was provided but
Corey
43:15
we know and again
Corey
43:16
again maybe this is drifting into political gossip territory but it's really not we know from polling that was done a
Corey
43:23
a um when the arena was last an issue yeah
Corey
43:26
right and and from uh you know friend of the pod jeremy farkas has shared some of his mayoral numbers on this we know that the idea of spending public money on the arena one
Corey
43:35
one thing you are correct about steven it is more popular downtown than in the suburbs so those areas where the UCP were in tight races that mattered a lot less popular there and we know from the polling that did exist on this particular arena item it was at best a toss-up and if it's a toss-up and we have all of this other evidence that if it's going to be better than a toss-up anywhere in the city it's downtown the way this math works means in the areas outside of downtown it's worse than a toss-up And
Corey
44:03
And yeah, you can make a case that it was about triangulation and they found a few votes and this is the votes they needed. But there's no way you can convince me that that was the optimal way to get those votes in terms of dollars. And
Corey
44:14
And frankly, you'd have a hard time convincing me that it moved more votes in favor of the UCP than moved against them based on everything we know about arena politics, including the polls that we had on the arena that came out right after this announcement that happened just before the election. So
Carter
44:28
So I'm still, I mean... Was this a serious
Corey
44:31
serious one of yours? No, I'm still pretty staggered. I'm still
Carter
44:34
still pretty staggered. Do you think I was being disingenuous?
Corey
44:41
Okay, mine is ingenuous. It's not disingenuous.
Carter
44:44
disingenuous. Oh, it's not? Okay, bring us your ingenuity.
Corey
44:47
ingenuity. I don't actually know. Is that an actual word? Is it just... Is it genuous? I
Carter
44:51
I think that it's
Corey
44:51
it's one of those words.
Corey
44:52
words. Ingenuity. It's just
Carter
44:53
just the negative, not the positive.
Carter
44:56
I mean, is there a word,
Corey
44:58
It's the Stephen Carter of words, yeah. Yeah, there is no positive to it. there's
Carter
45:05
okay so be ingenuous
Corey
45:11
we were really hard particularly me again this goes back to the message box yeah
Corey
45:16
about the ucp talking about health care before the election they were running those stupid ads yeah i thought they're stupid i'm trying to show some humility here but of them walking towards the camera talking about these health guarantees that that they've provided there was the health guarantee itself which was the big alberta health care card prop you'll remember the event where there was the health care worker the
Carter
45:38
the same way i remember
Carter
45:39
kenney's uh similar stunts yes i remember
Corey
45:43
yeah absolutely and at the
Carter
45:45
both of them at
Corey
45:49
made an argument that this was insane for them to be talking about they should be talking about the economy they that they were you're
Carter
45:57
not disingenuous right because i need to clarify is this what's actually happening you're
Carter
46:04
you're being truthful isn't
Carter
46:05
isn't there an argument
Corey
46:05
argument to be made well hold on by them doing that when when did this occur the
Corey
46:11
the week before the election two weeks before the election so
Carter
46:13
so when janet brown who everybody was telling me is the the best pollster in the history of mankind when
Carter
46:19
when janet brown was polling at that specific time when they were doing this messaging about uh health care how How are the UCP doing in the polls?
Corey
46:30
I don't know if there was a public Janet Brown poll. There was a public Janet Brown poll.
Corey
46:33
Was there? Okay. This
Carter
46:35
This is the poll that she had the NDP up by eight points, right?
Carter
46:39
right? When they were talking about healthcare, the NDP was up by eight points. When they stopped talking about healthcare and focused instead on the economy, the NDP went, you know, the UCP went up
Carter
46:52
in Janet Brown's polls, you
Carter
46:54
you know? So I'm not convinced that up is worse than down.
Carter
46:58
So I'm having a little bit of trouble with you saying that you're not being disingenuous.
Carter
47:06
Because that feels pretty disingenuous as well.
Corey
47:10
Can you not make an inoculation case, right? No.
Corey
47:14
No. You could make an inoculation case. No,
Carter
47:16
No, because absolutely no one believes this.
Carter
47:18
Absolutely no one. I
Carter
47:20
I know that this is on the platform. I know that this is the guarantee. no one believes that this is actually the thing that they're going to implement no one believes that no
Carter
47:29
no one like their caucus doesn't believe that no
Carter
47:33
no one believes this so i i just i'm sorry man like i know that you are trying to be the mature responsible podcast host uh like annalise would be if she was here but uh you're falling dramatically short of being the honest representative representative uh on this particular case so fail
Carter
47:53
fail for you yeah
Corey
47:53
yeah all right well upon reflection our advice was excellent maybe even perfect and uh we're very good at what we do yeah
Corey
48:01
yeah congratulations i mean
Carter
48:02
mean there's there's no other way that anybody could reach a different conclusion
Carter
48:06
that's the best part we
Carter
48:07
we tried to our best
Corey
48:09
best ability to just
Carter
48:10
just tear ourselves apart and
Carter
48:12
and we were unable to do so we
Corey
48:14
we put ourselves onto the altar here and you know what we were told to walk down the hill and go home no sacrifice today sacrifice today
Carter
48:21
today cory god we're good jesus
Corey
48:26
we are two whole segments
Carter
48:26
segments i might add that's
Corey
48:28
that's true and we're at the 48 minute mark i might even be able to do this because the next one is listener questions this is not going to take an awful lot of time oh
Carter
48:35
oh do we have any good listener questions i
Corey
48:38
i mean we had one when i started this yeah
Corey
48:40
it's pretty long so maybe i'll just try to read uh i'll read the whole one okay between okay am
Corey
48:47
am i going to read the whole one read read the question read the whole so when i read when i read to my kids yeah i like to give voices to the characters please i
Corey
48:57
so like in in harry potter for example reading harry potter right now you
Corey
49:02
you know i give ron this like nasally voice yeah
Carter
49:04
yeah that's totally right and
Corey
49:05
and hermione has this kind of like breathless know-it-all voice oh
Carter
49:07
oh yeah well just like you just like you hey well
Corey
49:11
well no hermione has that voice no it's just like your own has my voice yeah Harry
Corey
49:15
Harry just has my own voice yeah yeah
Corey
49:17
yeah it's easier that way he talks more it's easier and Hagrid he kind of sounds like a pirate because
Corey
49:22
because I don't do the accents
Carter
49:25
we're not reading Harry
Corey
49:26
Harry Potter I'm pretty sure that would be a copyright
Corey
49:29
do you want it as do you
Corey
49:32
you want it as Ron Hermione Hagrid or one of the other characters in Harry Potter it has to be in the first two books we're only on book two
Corey
49:40
actually I don't know if I want to do that no
Carter
49:43
no because that would amuse me the nasally
Carter
49:45
nasally kind of know-it-all voice oh
Corey
49:47
oh it's not it's not it's not ron's is nasally hermione's is know-it-all it's breathless know-it-all how
Carter
49:52
how is it not just your regular voice because
Carter
49:55
because you sound to me like a breathless know-it-all if
Carter
49:57
if i'm honest all
Corey
49:59
all right all right i'm gonna do exactly one sentence in hermione's voice that's all you're gonna get from me damn it
Corey
50:06
between kenny's phone book of a platform he claimed voters gave him the mandate on the war room that intentionally This is a long sentence, so I'm
Carter
50:15
I'm going to stop here.
Corey
50:15
Had its structure designed to remove from public accountability and
Corey
50:19
and the council is defeated, the UCP have a problem when it comes to responding to Albertans who aren't 100% on board. How
Corey
50:26
How has this succeeded and failed for them? How could the NDP most effectively combat this?
Carter
50:37
I mean, I think the big thing is interpretation
Carter
50:39
interpretation of what your mandate is, right? Right. And the UCP have always interpreted their mandate to be very broad, regardless of what the population felt it might be. So the breadth of the mandate that
Carter
50:53
that is going to be recognized by the UCP will almost always be in their favor. You know why?
Carter
50:58
Because every mandate is interpreted to the favor.
Carter
51:01
That's how you get your best outcomes if you're the government. You
Carter
51:05
You say, I put this in my policy book. You read the policy book and
Carter
51:09
and you voted for it. and
Carter
51:11
then people say well no no one read the policy book and you're like well you should have you
Carter
51:17
you know joe t gondek said you know we got we have a climate emergency and people were like where was that i i actually showed the media the press release that we sent to them you know this press release that we sent to you that you guys ignored yeah well we ignored it so that doesn't make it valid no it's still valid so you know if you don't want the ucp to implement implement their, uh, their policy platform, uh, don't elect them because
Carter
51:41
because as soon as they get elected, they're going to claim that, uh, the majority of Albertans, and this is how it's supposed to work. The majority rules. I mean, that's what all the proportional representation guys tell us. Um, you know, this is a, you
Carter
51:54
you know, this is an election where the majority won and now we're going to get the government that the PR reps want. So here we go.
Corey
52:05
so i agree a
Corey
52:07
bit and i don't i i actually think this is where jason kenney got himself into quite a bit of trouble and we talked about this at the time when jason kenney's leadership talked about how
Carter
52:15
how shitty this question is for a second though too like it's
Carter
52:18
it's like you guys had one question and this is this is what you gave us okay well
Corey
52:22
well i haven't checked i haven't checked the discord but there might be another question that's come in i'm gonna i'm gonna realistically you're over there to be better
Carter
52:30
are we gonna look
Corey
52:31
look i'll tell you this
Corey
52:33
why would i look that's a good question yeah
Corey
52:35
yeah that's a better question than anything i'll find in the discords exactly
Corey
52:40
here's what i will say though the
Corey
52:42
the platforms is a challenge and i think that jason kenney in particular really felt like albertans were voting for his platform there's such irony here because he would be the first to say people didn't vote for the ndp platform they They voted against the conservatives in the wild rows.
Corey
53:02
And yet when his own platform came along, despite running a campaign that was really about beating
Corey
53:07
beating the NDP, he really took it as like a stamp of, okay, this is what I'm going to do and this is how I'm going to move forward. And that was, I think, ultimately a bit of a challenge for him because a lot of the things he did were deeply unpopular around education in particular, where people started to say, hold on whoa whoa did you mean this and i said it at the time and i said it as recently as today on the discord but it's a bit like a cell phone contract like most voters do not read the platform yeah
Corey
53:37
and they are just kind of vote they're like how much does it cost a month you know they're looking at the top line they're trying to figure it out and jason kenney i think over interpreted his mandate and yes technically they signed that cell phone contract but
Corey
53:51
but it's not not what they thought they were signing. And it led to no end of problems for him because he was just tick, tick, tick, tick going through his platform as Albertans went, wait, wait, wait, wait, as he moved through it. And he just built up some of this resistance from various social groups as he was moving along.
Corey
54:10
the question itself is really about the UCP having a problem with responding to Albertans who aren't 100% on board.
Corey
54:18
I think there's some truth to that, But I
Corey
54:20
I think it's not unique to the UCP. It
Corey
54:23
might just be more realized
Corey
54:25
realized here in Alberta where there's
Corey
54:28
there's this sense, especially amongst conservatives, that the conservatives are this massive
Corey
54:35
remember really clearly in 2015, the
Corey
54:38
the biggest mistake the PCs made, for sure, and we've talked about this a lot, and this is not a blinding insight, was making
Corey
54:46
making the NDP their main opponents. right
Carter
54:49
believing that we could never vote that way they believed
Corey
54:52
believed we could never vote that way that's the punchline right
Carter
54:55
right sorry i took your punchline fine
Corey
54:56
fine i feel bad
Corey
54:57
bad it's good sorry
Corey
54:59
love taking the punchline
Corey
55:01
they just have this blind spot they have this feeling that like that can't be true representation or that's not the real alberta it's like the no true scotsman fallacy and so yeah they'll create things like this council of defeated like we need to get had opinions of edmontonians so let's go to the people edmontonians rejected right like this is this idea of a council of going to some of the people who ran to be mla killed
Corey
55:22
that had their asses the
Carter
55:23
the loser council because
Corey
55:26
because you know there are people actually given that job by the voters it's the ndp mlas you can talk to them you are allowed to ask what their opinions are and they are supposed to represent those people yeah
Carter
55:38
yeah i accurately and fairly too i mean theoretically this shouldn't matter which party you are uh you should be providing honest feedback to the government because the government and the government should be asking for honest feedback now that's that's way out there crazy ass theory but yeah you
Corey
55:53
know fantasyland stuff yeah
Corey
55:58
is a city council too there are elected representatives to deal with these municipal issues and
Corey
56:03
and yeah so i think in in some ways it's really succeeded for them in that it has allowed them to maintain the civil society of the use of conservatives like they're they always have a home and they're going to find something to take care of them but
Corey
56:17
but it's created massive blind spots for them so that's kind
Corey
56:20
kind of my short version of this question well
Carter
56:22
well that was great you got anything else on this question no
Carter
56:25
no i'm done i
Carter
56:26
i mean realistically i don't like answering audience questions anyways so yeah
Corey
56:29
yeah well literally no other audience questions came through so that's fucking wonderful we have 500 people in that discord yeah
Carter
56:36
yeah and there should be more because we have so many more but but there's like half of the people who pay us a monthly fee can't figure out how to access discord.
Corey
56:45
Or don't want. Yeah.
Corey
56:48
Well, Steven, we know exactly one thing about them, which is that they pay us money. So can't
Carter
56:52
can't be that bright.
Corey
56:56
That was, that was unnecessary.
Carter
56:57
Did you bring a lightning round to the table here?
Corey
57:01
this is my idea. This is my version of the lightning round. The listeners questions.
Carter
57:06
Yeah. Okay. Then I guess we're just, Because I'm doing my thing.
Corey
57:12
So you get a...
SPEAKER_00
57:21
Seriously? You guys are done? That's
Carter
57:23
That's how we finish.
Carter
57:25
You've never done a harder and
Carter
57:26
and harder... I hate
SPEAKER_00
57:26
hate you both. I just cannot stand you.