Episode 1060: No Take Backsies

Annalise 0:01

Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1060. Annalise, there's no

Corey 0:05

time for that. CBC has gotten back on Twitter.

Corey 0:08

We need to talk about it.

Annalise 0:10

No, we don't. We do. I'm talking about it. No, we have other things to talk about. Like, what is happening in the Discord? That's

Carter 0:18

That's just the episode.

Annalise 0:20

I didn't mind lurking in the Discord before. It's too much now. I don't know. Carter ruined it.

Corey 0:27

No, it's not ruined. It's not ruined. ruined it's just like we moved from a small town to a big city that's what's happening so

Annalise 0:33

so there was all

Carter 0:34

there was all these people saying i want to be on the discord i want to be on the discord i'm like you know what i'm going to do i'm going to just send out a note to everybody and i'm going to give them and i will give them the the invitation and you know what they did they

Carter 0:46

they clicked on the invite like they joined the discord like hundreds

Annalise 0:50

hundreds of people hundreds of people joined

Carter 0:52

hundreds so now we've got like chaos and then i had to go through today because i'd send out a general invite and you have to send out a specific invite so there's like there are like dozens of people with the wrong category right now i'm not even telling cory because if cory hears about what's happened he's gonna lose his shit but so if you happen to be listening to this look

Annalise 1:14

look at his face right now and

Carter 1:17

and if you happen to have an advisor to zane but you're actually paying paying $10 a month, can you maybe drop a note in the Patreon or DM me on Twitter and I'll take care of it. But you have to put in your username on Discord because there's a disconnect between the Discord username and the... So you just

Annalise 1:36

just took matters into your own hands. Like you didn't consult Corey and then you did tech stuff on your own. Patreon

Carter 1:42

Patreon is my domain. It's what I do. I set up the Patreon. I understand the Patreon. patreon i am one with now unfortunately discord discord's

Carter 1:55

discord's not my domain discord was kind of like discord is no one's domain it was the place where where cory and i were completely out of our depth and don't try and deny this cory because we had an admin there for like four or five minutes and then the admin got pissed with us and just just disappeared so it's been like i think cory Corey added you now as an admin, Annalise. Well, he

Annalise 2:18

he did because there was all these channels I wasn't seeing. I only was lurking in like one channel.

Carter 2:23

Now you've got them all. Now you've got them all.

Annalise 2:25

all. There's too many. There are way too many. Oh, my God.

Carter 2:28

talk all the time. And ding,

Annalise 2:29

ding, ding, ding. How do people keep up with this?

Carter 2:32

To date, I think the only person keeping up is Jeremy. I

Carter 2:35

I think everybody else is out of date. It

Annalise 2:37

It looks like Corey wants to say something. Oh,

Carter 2:39

Oh, I don't care.

Carter 2:40

Oh, go ahead, Corey.

Corey 2:42

The secret to a good Discord is to treat it like a river. You just jump in when it goes by, when you see something that you want. That's all good. But listen, don't think for a minute we're not going to talk about CBC coming back onto Twitter.

Annalise 2:57

we're moving into our first segment.

Annalise 3:01

let's talk about that.

Carter 3:03

What happened there, Annalise?

Annalise 3:06

what happened there is that i was wildly wrong i have no idea what cbc is doing why did they come back why did they come back today of all days oh

Corey 3:15

oh you mean the day tucker carlson said he's gonna start his like facts optional show this

Annalise 3:21

this is great why today listen

Carter 3:24

we don't know you're the one who said that they wouldn't come back you must have some in sort of you know like this is on you and by the way have we introduced you to the double down theory because really you need the double down theory right now no more than anybody i've

Annalise 3:38

tell me because i just learned about the belgium rule what's the double down theory the

Carter 3:41

the double down theory is when you are in it when you're in a hole keep digging right well

Annalise 3:46

well i was earlier

Carter 3:48

yeah so just i

Annalise 3:49

i was earlier when i thought i was like oh only certain umbrella accounts have come back like i was like but then I looked, and the important accounts were back.

Carter 3:58

back. No, no, double down. No,

Annalise 4:00

No, but they're wrong. CBC's wrong. They should not have come back. Double down. I was wrong. CBC's wronger.

Carter 4:07

There you go. I'm

Annalise 4:07

I'm not doubling down. I was wrong. Corey was right. Our bet is over, even though it had no... What was the stakes? If I had won it, it just would have lasted forever. What were the stakes? I don't know what CBC's doing. What

Carter 4:18

What were the stakes? I

Annalise 4:19

I forget if we actually... Well, you know what? Did we bet something?

Corey 4:24

it was that tens of thousands of people would know you were wrong. So

Annalise 4:29

Tens of thousands. Because that is how many people are on our Discord and our patrons. Tens of thousands. Perfect. We're

Corey 4:36

We're going to do this on a public show. This is going to happen on all the shows.

Annalise 4:40

shows. I'm a host. We're not doing it on a public show. We're

Annalise 4:43

We're moving into our first segment. Our first segment, guys, is called The Velji Rule. Oh,

Annalise 4:50

Should we wait for Velji?

Annalise 4:52

He's coming tonight, right? yeah he's

Carter 4:53

he's gonna come in and explain it

Annalise 4:55

okay well maybe we just get started

Corey 4:56

started anyhow we just sort of see he can jump in when he comes in

Annalise 5:00

in yeah hop in uh

Annalise 5:01

uh so guys it was sunday that i learned about the velji rule at what what was it like 9 p.m 9

Annalise 5:10

was used monday at what 1 p.m 16 hours later i've

Annalise 5:15

i've never seen hours after i learned about it it was used i've

Carter 5:19

seen the velji word word for word never seen the velji rule word for word

Annalise 5:23

word in my whole fucking life so

Annalise 5:24

so it was used in response to the video we talked about it on sunday daniel smith put out a statement monday afternoon that said quote i have always been and remain a friend to the jewish community yeah

Carter 5:36

yeah like someone is fucking her with her right like she someone on her staff knows about the velji rule and actually put it on word for word because there is no way that that that statement should have been going out like that no no way at all like

Carter 5:53

like that had to be done by one of her staffers so

Corey 5:56

so yeah can we can we talk about i know it was just last episode and it was the end of the last episode this is basically the last thing we talked about yeah

Corey 6:04

for those who maybe skipped it the

Corey 6:06

the velji rule is a rule that our good friend zane velji friend of the podcast zane velji Who's coming tonight, right?

Carter 6:13

right? Former host. Well, former

Corey 6:20

Zane created this rule in 2014. And

Corey 6:24

And this rule is that when you are a politician and you have to give an apology that includes the words, I have always been a friend of the Jewish people, that's it. It's over. There's nothing left for you. It's done. It's all slow death after that. Your career is over. and uh it's been a joke for a long time and to steven's point part

Corey 6:44

part of what makes it a joke is that particular phrasing yeah

Corey 6:48

is is just like you don't actually see it in the way it's like that's like the the cliche screw up and so we get to we get to witness a full velge you don't always get to see a full velge you

Annalise 6:59

you never get this what was like in 20 in 2014 was it named because someone someone used it or he just coined this thinking someone might no

Carter 7:09

no i think he was always thinking

Carter 7:10

of it for himself um oh okay

Corey 7:15

this was almost 10 years ago we don't remember the event this happens right somebody makes flip comments about different communities and then it's over yeah

Corey 7:24

um and and you know flip sometimes hurtful sometimes awful and but zane observed generally speaking when these set of conditions are met there's nowhere to go it's over for you it's done well let's here we are yeah

Annalise 7:39

yeah so let's talk about it so not only did she say and i'll just say it again quote i've always been and remained a friend to the jewish community she also had like kind of a blanket apology in her written statement for any offensive language used regarding this issue made well on talk radio or podcast during my previous career career we've talked about the blanket apology before um and then she also in addition to the statement she was in front of media on monday and tuesday she was asked about it today tuesday um she said you know her comments were made during covid which was a difficult and frustrating time for everyone so you

Annalise 8:15

you guys were mad at me last time when we did a lightning round on this let's not do a lightning round let's get into it carter we'll start with you smith did not follow any of the the advice that you gave on Sunday which was go into hiding and wait to be a hero in the wildfire well

Carter 8:32

well and now the wildfires are gonna are are going out like this is the worst week for her knock knock

Carter 8:39

we're seeing we're seeing firefighters are doing what they're supposed to do and they're putting out fires it's quite amazing if we had the rapid rapid attack uh crew imagine how well that would have been but the UCP cut that in the last budget it so anyways um you know first of all i

Carter 8:55

i honestly do think someone's trolling her with the whole because the language is literally cut and pasted from the velji rule um and you

Annalise 9:03

you so you think someone in her staff who's helping her with comms listens to this podcast listens and i put it in there like you actually you actually legitimately think that how

Carter 9:12

how else could i mean first cory cory cory you're trained professional no you're trained professional let's say that i hired you to run to write this statement, would you use the specific phrase, I have always been a friend of the Jewish people? Like, there's no way you would say that in that language, is

Corey 9:32

is there? No, I'd bust out the thesaurus and change people to community and call it a day, obviously. The

Carter 9:38

The Jewish community has been kind enough to welcome me into it. On many different occasions, i have been uh you know i've been thrilled to be a member of their community and i look forward to meeting with them and explaining to them uh you know hearing from them how wrong i was when i made this statement uh like there's a thousand different ways to get around it there there's

Carter 10:00

there's only one way that zane belgi has phrased this fucking thing there's only one way and what we also know or what we don't know but what we're hearing from the dms is that is

Annalise 10:14

is it breaking in the team it's breaking

Carter 10:15

breaking breaking from the dms is that there's three factions within the premier's office right now

Corey 10:20

now oh for god's sake this

Corey 10:22

this is not a gossip podcast okay

Carter 10:25

anyways if you want to know about the gossip there's gonna be a gossip channel on discord i'm gonna set it up don't You don't know

Annalise 10:33

know how to set it up. I'm going to

Carter 10:35

to set up a Discord

Annalise 10:35

Discord gossip channel. Okay, let's bring Corey into this. Corey, do you agree with Stephen Carter's theory that there is someone inside the Premier's office who listens to this podcast?

Carter 10:45

Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Well,

Corey 10:46

Well, so I for sure know there are people in the Premier's office who listen to the podcast.

Annalise 10:51

podcast. But who took Zane's wording?

Corey 10:53

I think if it happened, it was like, I've heard a phrase. There's this phrase stuck in my head. I'm going to use it. I don't think they sat there and said, how can I apply the Velji rule? I don't think they're listening to the podcast when it drops during a campaign late at night. If they are, they're not campaigning right. But I think it's entirely possible somewhere in the miasma were these words because Zane Velji has used them a hundred times. And somebody thought, you know, we need to find a way to say that she's always been a friend of the Jewish people. And then I think that's possible. No, I think it's deeply improbable that her team is trolling her in this particular fashion, because that

Corey 11:32

that that's like that's too overt. It's too difficult. Like it would be mortifying to hear that this was a thing that was discussed. okay next

Annalise 11:39

next question i've got confirmation i've

Carter 11:42

i've got confirmation that uh this came from the belgian role just got a dm to me okay

Corey 11:48

okay zane uh i mean uh wait where is zane coming wasn't he's gonna join us join us to message him yeah

Corey 11:56

i'll message him we're talking all about but hey well

Corey 11:58

well i'm well i'm messaging him there yeah i

Corey 12:01

i got a bite what is this gossip you heard which you know just for the record we're not a gossip podcast but i would like to hear the gossip This

Carter 12:08

is a patron episode.

Corey 12:09

A thousand patrons, yeah. Nothing,

Carter 12:11

Nothing, there's just some factions in the campaign that are trying to figure out how to get rid of her when the election's over. It's nothing significant. I mean, I heard it from literally people inside the office, but whatever, right? It's probably not true.

Carter 12:23

So whatever, it's not. You know what, listeners, listeners, listeners, I'd like to apologize on behalf of myself and Corey Hogan for denigrating this podcast, this great podcast with gossip, okay? I'm going to keep things factual from now on my apology

Annalise 12:41

apology next question will you message Zane I'm going to read a few headlines and you tell me if these are are

Annalise 12:48

are these the types of headlines you would want a week into a campaign I'm

Corey 12:51

I'm going to guess the answer is no to all of them but yeah

Annalise 12:55

the headlines we got to talk about this I'm going to say yes

Annalise 12:59

all of them I'll just read a few

Annalise 13:01

you were the one who said she should go into hiding and wait for a superhero exit Carter starter uh

Annalise 13:07

uh okay headlines smith apologizes for comparing vaccinated to followers of nazi germany hitler it's

Annalise 13:14

it's a column hitler makes an appearance in the alberta election it's another one daniel smith says vaccinated alberns are just like the german voters who elected hitler uh

Annalise 13:23

uh smith apologizes for claiming vaccinated people were like the followers of hitler have okay not only are these the types of headlines do you want a week into a campaign but have you guys seen something like this before to do with a leader during

Annalise 13:36

during a campaign like

Annalise 13:38

like not a candidate a leader this

Corey 13:40

this is bonkers this feels like broad comedy this feels like something that we would joke about in the 90s like if we were going to say like a truly career-ending political gaffe you know this is actually the producers but in politics you know springtime for hitler this idea that it's just so outrageous it cannot happen and yet it somehow happened like this isn't just like Godwin's law that she implemented here. She left a cartoon Danielle Smith-style hole in Godwin's law as she crashed through it, invoking

Corey 14:13

invoking the Nazis when she's talking about not even just the people who are making you get vaccinations. That's outrageous, but we've heard that before. Suggesting that the people who got vaccinations are the same types of people who would have led led adolf hitler to power that's that's really very wild stuff because it's not even like attacking a small group of people it's attacking literally the

Corey 14:40

the majority of albertans most albertans

Annalise 14:43

well and so does this yeah go ahead we

Carter 14:45

we just talked just briefly about timing too because the the apology came out so quickly like um there was a real chance that no one knew how to actually cover this no one knew how to put it into their newspaper no one knew how to put it on their their television station and the second that she apologized everybody now knew how to do it i

Corey 15:03

i felt the exact same thing steven like even the herald didn't write a story about it it was part of their they weren't it was like yeah it was their like blog essentially election style because

Carter 15:12

because they didn't know how to cover it because how do you cover this particular type of of lunacy you don't this isn't something that you normally put up and they don't know how to cover it and then you put forward an apology and now they know exactly how to cover it well yeah because now they just cover the apology and

Annalise 15:31

and also what what do you make of the fact that she's stood in front of media twice now and responded to it in addition to the written statement well

Corey 15:39

well and gave different answers right so to steven's point like this has been like a crashing out of and into an issue if she had waited one day i think there's a good chance the media would not have known how to grab onto it and how to make it you know packageable for general consumption and i mean you even saw this in the calgary herald coverage that you talked about which was like a very hilarious headline which was like smith compares albertans to nazis semicolon liberals unveil health care platform right

Carter 16:11

so good because again it

Corey 16:12

it was their blog it was like it was their blog it wasn't even a a separate story. But it got updated. It got updated rather quickly to NDP says, Smith compares. Because actually, I think the NDP made an error here too. By them jumping into it in a big way, they allowed the media to assign the charge to

Corey 16:30

to the NDP, rather than the media having to stand up and say, this is what the stuff says, and we are now reporting on it. But if Smith had waited a day to see if anybody could do anything with it, to see how the story evolved, to see what her answer would be i think she would have been in better shape because a wildfire is still going on that's going to distract people b the media angle we just talked about but

Corey 16:53

could do a bit of field testing and get their story straight because to move from this was just me being a provocative pundit to i was in a dark place but i've i've been to a prayer breakfast and i'm trying to get better like which is basically the turn she did today those

Corey 17:07

those are those are two Two different answers, right?

Corey 17:10

Two very different answers. If

Carter 17:12

If you want to call them answers, but I think you're being generous.

Carter 17:15

I mean, this is, so mistakes were made all around, right? The NDP did jump on this very, very quickly. You know, what

Carter 17:26

what have we said a thousand times on the podcast? Never get in the way of your opponent destroying themselves. Let the media do what the media are going to do. you're not going to get make it better by jumping in and saying hey look we're already reacting before you guys even have a story let them get the story it may take a day or two or three before something evolves we we stayed away from lake of fire until we absolutely had to jump into lake of fire how

Annalise 17:53

how long did you stay away from it for i

Carter 17:54

i think it was two days because

Carter 17:56

because it was on its own like you get the the spark the first day right so you get the spark and the fire is about to start and then you hope that the fire catches and then the fire catches and now you're going fires caught and then you stay out of it you let it go because the first day it goes on its own the second day you need to comment to continue right

Carter 18:16

right third day you're getting into you

Carter 18:18

you know third day you're getting into opinions fourth

Carter 18:20

fourth day you're looking for new angles fifth day you're looking for the mayors to jump in six like the

Carter 18:26

the stories that prolong themselves have a certain lifespan. And both the NDP and the UCP, in this case, jumped into this story way before they needed to, way before they needed to. The UCP, if they'd waited, maybe it doesn't become a story. The NDP, if they don't wait, it's not politicized by their involvement. Their fingerprints aren't all over it. And so, you know, mistakes, mistakes. But ultimately, this is hurting Danielle a hell hell of a lot more than it's hurting the ndp yeah

Corey 18:58

yeah and there was a real opportunity for her to avoid the media and not look like she was avoiding the media because she was up in edmonton dealing with wildfire challenges in fact they were tweeting out photos it was funny i mean you can't help but see places you used to work people used to work with you know try to read the text on the phone of your former colleague can't do it the resolution wasn't high enough but but

Corey 19:20

but but though She could have fed the media cycle with story, like videos like that, footage like that. I'm talking to people. I'm dealing with this crisis. And she could have bought herself the day without even looking like she was buying a day because for the vast, vast majority of this province, they're not on Twitter. You know, so people not like CBC because they're on Twitter now, but the people who are not on Twitter, they

Corey 19:43

would never have seen this story, right? The vast majority of them. And you don't need to react to something people aren't talking about. She had a day. She could have given herself a day. So,

Annalise 19:53

So, I mean, we're laughing, and this is her apology, the fact that she said she's always been and remains a friend to the Jewish community, the Zayn Velji rule. But this is serious. Like, this is someone who could lead our province in three weeks. I

Corey 20:06

I mean, does lead our province right now.

Annalise 20:08

now. Yeah, does lead our province right now. Do you think this has legs, or do you think she has said so much crazy stuff that it just doesn't resonate? doesn't it?

Corey 20:23

don't, I'm not wild about the frame. Like the reality is COVID was a very challenging time and people were not at their best during COVID in a lot of different senses. And I think this is, this is emphatically not at somebody's best. And I am actually a little more sympathetic to her second answer than I am her first, which is like, I

Corey 20:42

went to a dark place

Corey 20:44

now that's as a human Stephen's about to say the thing that I'm not even going to bother saying because I think I know what he's going to say

Carter 20:51

say I'm going to say that every day is a fucking crisis oh you don't want me to interrupt you continue yeah

Carter 20:58

sorry but I know the answer to this question teacher that's

Corey 21:01

that's true yeah that you do yeah put your hand down Mr. Carter we'll get to you sorry I'll

Corey 21:08

but you know the other thing is

Corey 21:11

I don't know if there's another thing. That's about all I need to say, because now Stephen's derailed onto the point.

Carter 21:16

Derailed onto the point?

Annalise 21:18

Answer my question, Stephen Carter.

Carter 21:19

onto the point. Kind of like it was an accident. The point is that we elect these folks to actually manage crises. So when you are in the midst of a crisis that, frankly, you're not even dealing with, you're not managing the crisis for the entire province. You're managing the crisis for your restaurant. You're managing the crisis for your family. You're managing the crisis, like we all did. and yes we all went to a dark place yes it was challenging for all of us but you

Carter 21:46

know the people who were actually running the show the people who were uh making the decisions the people who were making things happen are the ones that danielle smith has been shitting on the whole fucking time so you know you don't get to say i went to a dark place and then it's all okay you're supposed to be the leader of this ragtag ensemble that's what you signed up for so when when you decide that you're just going to, you know, abandon that responsibility, that doesn't hold water. You have to actually, if you're going to be the leader, then be the leader. Say, you know, be

Carter 22:20

be strong enough to be the leader. And she's not been strong enough to be the leader of anything right now.

Annalise 22:30

not sure if that answered my question, but that's okay. Well,

Carter 22:32

Well, hold on. Do you want to ask your question again? Because maybe we can do it better.

Annalise 22:36

No, I kind of forget. I mean,

Annalise 22:38

kind of like that CBC

Carter 22:39

CBC thing where you get lots of chances. I

Annalise 22:44

of forget what my question was.

Corey 22:47

Well, Stephen's point is a really good one. And I think that the problem with Danielle Smith's second answer is, in

Corey 22:55

in many ways, it's more disqualifying. Because I'll tell you something, the job of premier is super tough. off. You

Corey 23:04

You are dealing with crises beyond even what the public sees on a day-to-day basis. Stephen has said this a million times. I want to second it. You don't get the easy stuff on the premier's desk. It's nothing but no-win situations. It's nothing but how do I hurt people less with my decision, right? Because if it was easy, it was dealt with three rungs down. It was dealt with by a minister. It was dealt with by the bureaucracy. It didn't get elevated to you at this this particular time. And it's the judgment that you exercise at those moments, your ability to keep it cool at those moments that counts for everything, for everything. That is the job. Like we sit here and we talk about platforms. We talk about the ability to communicate, the ability to be the person they want to have a beer with. Can I tell you as somebody who's worked in governments and I, you know, I know you both have too, and I bet you, you would both back this up.

Corey 23:53

The stuff that really matters is not the stuff in the platform. The stuff that really matters is the stuff that comes at you on a random tuesday and you've just got to fucking figure it out it's covet 19 it's all of a sudden there's not enough takeaway capacity for pipelines it's the death of a child in care an utter tragedy and as a premier you've got to decide what to do and how to exercise the authority of the state to make it better and you can't and so you're trying to choose between bad options and you're doing the best you can and if you fall apart if you exercise bad judgment four

Corey 24:27

four and a half million albertans get hurt well

Corey 24:29

well that's the simple reality i'll

Carter 24:31

i'll tell you a story that you know like to that end we had uh during our government the time i was there we had a young man in care who was scalded to death right

Carter 24:42

right so what do you do you go back to the platform and find out where we have the uh the heat regulators on homes for under six individuals who need to uh be housed with supervision uh yeah because believe it or not that wasn't in the platform you know that's a regulation that that's in place and and because it was under six people the regulation didn't apply and uh this young man got scalded to death and you know we weren't able to even tell the whole story i mean to this day i'm not able to tell the whole story because of privacy concerns because that you know how do you deal with that and that will live with me forever i will always know how that happened i will always know why it happened um and it will be something that you carry with you and that's the job that's the job of being uh the premier and you know people they're

Carter 25:37

they're you know i'm watching the diplomat you guys watching the diplomat you know the the general premise of the diplomat is essentially this uh the people who seek the job are wholly unqualified to actually be in the job and i'm starting to to come to that conclusion anybody who wants this is probably not in the right position uh to actually be someone who should be leading um leading our countries and leading our provinces maybe we should be doing this random draw and now you get to make all the fucking decisions good luck buddy because this is this these things are hard really damn hard so

Annalise 26:12

so how do you get how do you get that point across and i guess maybe from an ndp perspective what do they do going going forward? You've criticized what they've kind of done on this so far. But what do you do going forward when you're up against someone who, two

Annalise 26:26

two years ago, was comparing vaccinated to followers of Nazi Germany?

Corey 26:32

Well, look, I actually think that you've

Corey 26:35

you've got to be very careful with the framing. You've got to be thoughtful about it. But in a way, the message is sort of what we've said. It's Rachel Notley in a debate. You can imagine like this three-step dance. Step one is Rachel Notley says, you said 75% of Albertans were, you know, comparable to supporters of Nazi Germany. Danielle Smith responds, well, I wasn't handling that moment very well. I said these things. Step three, Rachel Notley says, Danielle,

Corey 27:03

Danielle, I have sympathy for you as a human about this, but you need to know, I think you do know after four months in the job, these jobs are hard. These challenges are unrelenting. And if you can't hack, well, you know, again, this is, you got to be very careful with the words. But like, it doesn't get easier. It does not get easier. And as difficult as that moment was, being

Corey 27:24

being premier for four years is full of difficult moments. And I'd ask Albertans to consider that as they choose their next premier. And there's a version of that that you can say, because it's true. It has the benefit of being utterly 100% true. Well,

Carter 27:38

Well, and we're dealing with life and death right now. I mean, right now, we've got firefighters out on the line trying to put out fires that you know didn't don't have the tools don't have the the training that they should have to deal with these situations and you know what's interesting we said it when the when the rapid attack teams were cut people said this is this could cost people's lives and it felt like hyperbole then but here we are right now with With 20,000 people still unhoused and trying to figure out how we can actually protect people. This isn't a game. It's not just about getting power like the Take Back Alberta guys seem to think it is. It has game-like elements, but the stakes are so fucking high.

Annalise 28:26

Carter, that's a good segue into talking about Take Back Alberta and the fire conspiracy theories. But Corey, did you want to close this out on the Zane Velji rule?

Corey 28:35

Yeah. Hold on, where the fuck is Velgey? Where is Zayn? Yeah. Okay, well, he's obvious. He's not, you know what, he's not even, he put me on read. He read the text, but he hasn't actually done it. Typical Zayn. That is

Corey 28:47

very much Zayn. You

Carter 28:47

You know, the only thing that makes Zayn redeeming is that he didn't think the CBC was going to stay off Twitter.

Corey 28:55

Yeah. It's really the only thing. Good judgment from that Zayn Velgey. Yeah, that

Carter 28:59

Velgey guy. He really is nailed down. Keeps it together under pressure.

Corey 29:02

look, I think there's this funny thing that happens in politics that it's tough. It's a tricky one. And the fire is a good example of it. Like, there is this thing that happens where people talk about these issues that are so material, literally to life and death. And we turn them into, you

Corey 29:21

you know, who's got the better soundbite, whether we think somebody looks composed as they say the important thing or not. And we judge our decision based on that. that but let's talk about provincial politics we are talking about health care you know

Corey 29:33

that is life or death we are talking about education that is determining your entire life we are talking about social supports whether they be for somebody in care or if somebody's fallen off the rails or has lost their job you know outside of ei but some of the other programs that might be there these are all provincial responsibilities and these are all going to determine how you live and how long you live this is really life and death and it's really easy to get abstract about it but at the end of the day you

Corey 30:02

you do need to think about these things as you cast your ballot because it matters a lot well it does matter a lot cory

Carter 30:08

cory you circulated that graphic that's going around on twitter i retweeted it today there's a 20-year age gap you know in terms of life expectancy between the southern republican united areas of the united states yeah

Carter 30:20

and the democratic areas of the united states it is a 20 year

Carter 30:24

gap and that comes from zero to six policies health care policies social safety net policy working condition policies all of those all of those in our system as they are in the united states are taken care of by our provinces if you want to lose 20 years of your life expectancy elect

Carter 30:42

elect the daniel smith government she's

Corey 30:44

she's calmed down no um okay did

Carter 30:46

did i say the bold statement steven

Carter 30:48

yeah that might have been too far if you want to die on tuesday after the election

Corey 30:56

that better these matter these matter and look life expectancy is one thing it's a very important thing it's obviously not everything life expectancy of 100 in soviet russia wouldn't do much for me frankly yeah

Corey 31:08

but yeah you've got to think about these things and you've got to think about what matters and yeah this this is an interesting election because we've all we are We have an opportunity to see some stakes already with wildfire, and

Corey 31:22

and we've seen some people's reactions to pressure already. And does it matter? I think that's the question that I'm kind of kept up at night about.

Annalise 31:32

It was a question I asked Carter, and he didn't answer.

Annalise 31:35

Okay, we can move on to our next segment. Our next segment is called— You know what? I didn't want to answer.

Carter 31:38

answer. I chose not to answer. No, but it's

Annalise 31:40

it's a big—it's a question. Does it matter? matter i

Carter 31:43

i did i did i or did i not speak for quite a period of time you

Carter 31:49

that is an answer uh

Annalise 31:52

uh take back alberta i want to i mean you mentioned a carter and there's kind of a couple things i want to pick out here so cbc had a feature today it followed a globe and mail feature and podcast last week about this third party advertiser and the man behind it um it's called take back alberta i don't know carrie tate at the globe described it as a vibe which i think is a good a good sort of description after she spent some time with um the 34 year old david parker who runs it uh the group takes credit for getting rid of kenny helping elect smith they also control half of the ucp board i think both the both these pieces i found were like widely shared and i wonder if some of it is that we've heard about this group we've been talking about it but they were kind of the first looks that here is the man behind it and here's what this group is all about um i don't know i guess carter if you want to start off here like what what do you make of take back alberta and their current strategy so

Carter 32:47

so this isn't the first time we've seen this uh this is populism at its core and alberta saskatchewan manitoba great histories of populism and populism can take many different forms but in this particular case it's taking a anti-vaccination pandemic i'm getting screwed over type of populism that mirrors awfully an awful lot like what we saw in donald trump's world where there's a group of people who were advantaged and now feel that they're disadvantaged and because of that they have uh anger and that anger can be marshaled and pointed in directions and david parker is excellent at that the other person who was really good at that was preston manning preston manning created the reform party uh the late 80s and early 90s and and he did the exact same thing that david parker is doing he went around from community to community especially small communities don't go to the big ones you're not going to do well in calgary on these things when you start and you find their grievances and then you amplify their grievances you know who else did this fairly well danielle smith did this really well during the electricity debates when she went from town to town to town with with her quote-unquote experts and they they spoke to people about how they were getting getting screwed. They were getting screwed over. And then they talked about property rights. You'll note that Danielle Smith began her career as a property rights advocate, because that's how you do these things. You go from town to town to town, and that's how your populism grows. And so Danielle Smith's done it. David Parker's doing it. Preston Manning's doing it. William Abraham did it. These people have built these movements based on sometimes religiosity, sometimes anger, sometimes whatever it may be. But what is fascinating about them is how does the actual anger get used, right? So if the anger is being put together in a kind of coherent and pointed fashion, you get the outcome like Brian Mulroney's wins when we were discussing free trade. When it's put together like Preston Manning did it, you see the collapse of the conservative movement and the the utter devastation of the progressive conservatives in Canada, where the further right you are, the more likely you are to lead. And David Parker is now taking this one more step. He knows exactly how to control things. Because when you control a political party,

Carter 35:08

you don't have to control hundreds of thousands of voters. You have to control 30 people who show up to a venue on a Thursday night in the middle of fucking February. If you put the right 30 people in the room on that night, you

Carter 35:22

you own that board. And if you own that board, now you've got to springboard to the next one, to the next one, to the next one. And that's political organizing at its core. And David Parker is doing it better than anybody else is doing it in Canada right now.

Annalise 35:34

Corey, take it away.

Corey 35:36

Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree. One of the interesting things about politics, we often talk about these war metaphors, you know, generals and politicians are always trying trying to fight the last war. Well, part of why that's true is because it's an ever-shifting rule set and there's an ever-shifting, you know, set of guards at the gate or not for various things, right? And we kind of lose focus on certain things. We don't have the protections we once did. We welcome everybody into the gates as we've done with one member, one vote, and you lose control of your city all of a sudden here. And what David Parker has observed and identified and in many many ways stoked himself, is that the political party is relatively easy to take over compared to a province. But once you have the political party, the province just kind of shrugs. That seems to be the times that we're in. And I don't think that's a unique to Alberta thing. We certainly see this with the Republicans down in the United States. But there's

Corey 36:31

there's so many things that should alarm people about that particular set of circumstances here, not least of which is is all other things being equal, let's just set aside, which you can only really do for a minute, but let's set aside the sports team-like nature of politics in 2023.

Corey 36:47

The public is going to be much more moderate than the party. And so when you're a candidate for the leadership, when you're an MLA, you are going to be a little bit more moderate than your core wants you to be. And that's always been a bit of a moderating influence on party politics. But if you're David Parker and and you say, fuck elected politics, I'm only interested in the back rooms, I'm only interested in taking over the party, you are going to be running a totally different playbook, one that has no regard for that moderation of the public. And you're just going to say, I can get you animated because I can be angry about an issue, because you're angry about that issue, and he's angry about that issue, and she's angry about that issue. And if we get in a room, that's our board, and that's one board down. And you know what? We get 44 more of those, and we got 45. That's a a majority. I mean, in fact, that's majority plus one. And then we can do whatever the fuck we want with this party. And that's what Take Back Alberta's strategy has been. And I have to credit them. They've identified a serious flaw in our political systems in this country, which is that they are very susceptible to takeover of this nature, and nobody's guarding that particular gate anymore.

Carter 37:53

Well, and they've made it very clear, too, that they're

Carter 37:56

they're only interested in the governing party they're not interested in the ideological party so when the you know if the ndp wins this election uh and then you know at some point in the future rachel notley decides that she's going to step aside there's a i mean why wouldn't they take over the ndp it's not hard these parties you know it is not a difficult thing to take over a party that has one member one vote and no you know no barriers to entry um you know i i often used to to joke that i always thought the board of alberta theater projects should uh take over the board of theater calgary in virtually every other city in canada there's a two-stage main main theater why wouldn't they do that it's a non-profit you take them over like that but no one does it in non-profits right we've got proliferation in non-profits there's no competition in

Annalise 38:49

did your non-profit rent before too in

Annalise 38:54

was just not everybody

Carter 38:55

everybody listens to every fucking episode this is a patreon this is a special special episode but

Carter 39:01

but in this particular case you know you you can you can do almost anything and you know what the courts say it's

Carter 39:08

it's your private club we're

Carter 39:10

we're not going to get involved there is no recourse this is if this is going to happen uh if if parker decided he wants not just the the ucp but he wants the ndp if they win all

Carter 39:23

all he has to do is flip the switch take out and take out the the ndps cas are all but non-existent in most areas of alberta all but non-existent be

Carter 39:36

be very easy to to take them all over so

Annalise 39:38

then what and i guess how should like what should the ndp or the ucp be doing about this right now you

Corey 39:46

you know we um it's

Corey 39:48

it's a tricky one right i think in general i would argue that parties need to be much more intentional and much more forward looking when it comes to their party apparatuses we've talked about this in terms of leadership contests the time to argue about the rules of the next leadership contest it seems gauche while you've got a leader and and nobody's thinking about the next leader, that's when to do it. When you have the ability to control it, and you can take yourself outside of who would be advantaged by particular rules, and you can think for yourself what would be in the best interest of the party. I think most political parties across this country, and certainly in Alberta, where there's sort of declared intent, should see take back Alberta.

Corey 40:26

I mean, I want to say canary in the coal mine, but there's a bunch of dead canaries already down here, man. But let's treat it as a canary in the the coal mine in

Corey 40:34

service of being more democratic parties have thrown open the gates the guards have walked into town they've just said have at it right and people are taking them up on that they are walking in and they are taking over parties there you're seeing these surges of members that come for one year maybe don't even have the interest in the party on the long term and they determine what happens next and party faithful people are thinking long term people thinking electability people thinking moderation are really being pushed to the sidelines and it's starting to to feel like you

Corey 41:04

know a party is is it's like it's like in the viking era right it's these cities in in the dark ages that they have they have no armies they have no guards and they're just sitting there you know sitting on all of this authority sitting on all of this power and all it takes is a certain boat to roll into town and and

Corey 41:23

and there you go carter

Carter 41:25

well i'm just i

Carter 41:28

tend to think that people are going to you know we're going to be attracting if we have have an open leadership we're going to be attracting gen pop what has been determined what we have found is we're not attracting gen pop at all i mean we did this with with redford i took we took over the party the pc party by bringing in liberals really to take it over and and it was a totally viable and in that case i argue they

Carter 41:51

they were gen pop right but it

Corey 41:54

it well you you would yeah

Carter 41:55

but it's a far easier thing to do with the crazies because the crazies have nothing but time and they are absolutely prepared to go to war on their issues um when jason kenney pulled up in in uh in

Carter 42:11

in in red deer with his bus loads of uh catholic school children to vote in that that

Carter 42:20

that process that was supposed to determine the leader for the uh for the for the pcs uh and ultimately merged that party and eliminated it um you know i'm not thinking i can get bus loads of of moms from uh from calgary to give up their weekend you know i just don't think that that's going to be possible but he did it because he knew that he could get them to play by this set of rules and they would think that it's important enough so your parties are able to be taken over whether it's the liberals of canada uh or the liberals of alberta or whatever the and and another great example one more great example before i hand this back to you annalise and you can get us back on track um the

Carter 43:03

the ndp had the chance to uh the ndp were the the governors if you will the the people in charge of the last um uh

Carter 43:17

regenerate what was it when we regenerate the the zones or the the ridings the riding redistricting the riding distribution yeah and

Carter 43:25

and they didn't even they didn't pay attention they were asleep at the switch because right now we've talked about how hard it is for the ndp in a in a two-party race to win this election and And that's entirely because they were asleep at the switch when the ridings were redone. They didn't look at the political ramifications. They thought, oh, you know, there aren't any political ramifications because we are the NDP and we don't look at politics this way. And now they're in a spot where they they

Carter 43:54

they if they don't win the election, I think that they can win. They could lose the election and win the popular vote. And that's that's not the way this is supposed to work.

Annalise 44:06

Corey, it looks like you wanted to say something.

Corey 44:15

NDP with their leadership ranks, where they basically had to find an excuse to disqualify somebody.

Corey 44:40

First off, there is strength in numbers. So you need to keep a standing army, you need to put the time and effort into making sure that your party membership base is strong all of the time, not just when you need party members. And so there's an important part of doing that. The second is you do actually need to put back up some of those gates and tell some people to get the fuck out. One of the most traditional ways to do that is delegates and And including within that superdelegates, the idea that you become vested in authority, because

Corey 45:08

because you have been an MLA or an MP, or you previously held a very senior position. And if you're going to be elected as a delegate, there's this filtering that occurs where, you know, you you tamp out some of that at the writing level, and you move it up, see earlier thing about strength in numbers. And then the other tool that's available to all political parties is

Corey 45:27

to not put all of your eggs in single contests. Buy time. Don't rotate out your entire board at one election. You can do this both at the riding level, but also at the provincial level, at the national level. Do it over three, over three years, right? Just rotate through. And if you have one really bad showing where you're asleep at the switch, you don't lose it all. You lose a third of it. You've still got two thirds of it and you can regroup and you can get back in fighting shape and you can make sure you're not taken over. But what happens now is I'm going to go back to that Viking metaphor. The ship comes out of the fog and it's fucking over. Like you, you, there's nothing you can do at that point unless you want to start doing what the BC NDP did, which is really lean heavy on the, and listen, I know a bunch of BC New Democrats will strongly disagree with this characterization. No, they won't.

Corey 46:20

But they found an excuse to disqualify a candidate that they were not very excited about. And so if you do that, you're going to breed ill will across the board and you've sort of laid bare that your one member one vote is phony anyhow. So own it. Own that you're not going to do that. Own that you want to have a certain ownership and investment in the party if you're going to allow this kind of participation and this kind of control of the party. And my final thing on this is parties

Corey 46:46

parties have done this to themselves by playing the tiny demagogue, right? You saw this in political parties before you saw this in public discourse, this idea of you are just as important as them over there. Your voice matters just as much on policy as that expert over there. I'm going to give the keys to you. I'm going to give policy to you. And they didn't mean it. They didn't mean it. But that language was helpful to them because it flattered people. And by pulling them all up, you've created this situation where everyone has this expectation

Corey 47:15

that they're all just as important to the party.

Corey 47:19

And maybe we need to start getting away from that.

Annalise 47:21

So strategy-wise, if you're Take Back Alberta and things are looking pretty good for you right now, what do you do? You keep doing what you're doing? Just keep getting people involved at that super grassroots level?

Corey 47:33

well i don't think it's that easy because it is always shifting terrain and you know every action is going to get an equal and opposite reaction somebody will say hey if take back alberta can do it we can do it too hey if we want to get the party back we're going to have to figure some of this stuff out too i can find an issue to make people angry about let's do it right so it's a shifting set of tactics there but

Corey 47:55

but i mean obviously they're going to continue doing what works but But they are also adapting, and we've seen that even in some of the reporting that we saw. As it recently is today, Jason Markosoff had a call about it, right?

Corey 48:07

They get slapped down for something, they change their operating procedure, they move forward. And they're going to do that.

Annalise 48:14

Carter, for your take back, Alberta, what are you doing?

Carter 48:17

I'm doing mostly what I'm doing now, but I'm probably trying to avoid the media coverage. Yeah,

Annalise 48:24

Yeah, I was going to ask about that. The fact that he spoke to both Kerry Tate and Jason Markostoff, would you have advised him to do that?

Carter 48:32

No, I mean, and both of those are really good journalists too. I mean, they sniffed the story and they're going after a real story. And I think that if you're running a TPA like that, you don't want to be the story. You want to do what most TPAs do, which is, you know, enter the game, execute

Carter 48:51

execute your plan, disappear. disappear that's what most uh of the tpas are doing it but not take back alberta there

Carter 48:59

there because they're i guess i don't know i think that there's some ego involved

Corey 49:04

yeah i think it's more than that they are a party within a party they're a faction like this is factionalism right it's not dissimilar from the waffle in the ndp and you know in many decades past at this point and the idea is they don't mind the coverage because i actually you think david parker well i've said everything about he's just saying we're going to take the party once he's got the party what

Corey 49:29

what do you think he's just going to be okay in the back back rooms i think he's got ambitions that are bigger than that what

Annalise 49:37

what about on the on the media coverage front like does it we've talked again and again about this battleground calgary does it hurt the ucp in calgary if you have non-rural people in calgary who are conservative reading this and being like hey

Annalise 49:50

hey these people sound a little kooky maybe this isn't who i want controlling the party

Carter 49:55

oh yeah this isn't this wasn't a great day for the ucp um he said in in a massive understatement this wasn't a great day for the ucp and it wasn't a great day for take back alberta i think that you know this this isn't going to help them but i don't know how much this hurts them it's it's probably not as much as i'd like them to get hurt okay

Annalise 50:18

okay let's leave it there and move on to our lightning round don't

Carter 50:23

don't you have another segment though because we really went long on that one and you've probably put another segment into the lightning round like you did i don't

Annalise 50:28

don't know why you keep saying that i

Annalise 50:31

show you my nose from sunday it was never you it was never on sunday is

Annalise 50:37

is what i'm trying to never you it was never a segment because i found out about it like 10 minutes before we were going to record because

Carter 50:43

because here's the thing

Annalise 50:43

thing some people aren't on their phone all day you are so you

Annalise 50:47

so outside enjoy their lives stop

Carter 50:49

stop it um i'm outside all the time the only person who okay and here's the point here's the point you're

Carter 50:57

you're getting you cory and i've talked about this you're

Carter 51:00

you're a little bit too committed to the hour right it's like it's like you know what all

Annalise 51:05

all i can stand is one hour yeah it's like a little too much that's

Corey 51:11

that's a little fair i

Annalise 51:13

i don't i i like you know what i like from my podcasts i like when they're the same amount of time each time i like that i don't like when sometimes it's half an hour sometimes it's 40 minutes sometimes it's an hour and 20 minutes i like one hour podcast well

Carter 51:26

well i think we've gotten to the root of why you don't listen to our fucking podcast cast i

Annalise 51:32

still need to listen to the dairy queen episode that is how much to do this carter yeah i gotta listen um okay lightning round i don't know what to even do there's a few things here um this

Annalise 51:45

this one is from twitter but i i feel like we talked about this maybe we didn't in this blunt of terms would you advise daniel smith to attend or make up attend the debase or make up up an excuse and skip it lightning round short and sweet cory hogan uh

Corey 52:01

uh i think you attend especially now with some of the narratives forming around dodging like you don't want to you could have gotten away with not attending if you hadn't avoided the media last week and now we're looking like you were having challenges with being in front of the media this week it starts to paint a picture um although

Corey 52:18

although i almost want to make the other argument too maybe i'll leave that to carter because there is a strong argument not to show up yeah

Carter 52:23

yeah she needs to set a few more fires and wind up in the emergency control control room because there is there is uh she's

Carter 52:34

she's gonna get fucking annihilated the only thing that she can do in order to win this debate is have expectations so low that all she needs to do is show up in order to win and i don't know maybe that's her strategy because certainly i don't have very high expectations for at this particular moment gory high

Corey 52:53

but that's to her favor right because generally speaking we we score these things not based on absolutely what

Annalise 53:01

i just said okay next question you know what

Corey 53:04

what i was gonna say hold on i

Corey 53:06

i don't we have seen danielle smith debate obviously we

Corey 53:10

we have never seen her debate heads up like this have we i can't know like when

Corey 53:13

when would she have done no

Carter 53:14

no one's done a heads up debate like this forever this is this and this is uh you know this is going to be this is going to be memorable for a number of different reasons yeah

Corey 53:23

yeah we we don't even see these federally like it is so rare in this country to see heads up yeah it's going to be really interesting so

Annalise 53:31

you both think she shows oh

Corey 53:33

yeah i think she has to well i

Carter 53:34

i mean unless she starts a fire and

Carter 53:36

and then she sings billy joel stop the

Carter 53:38

the fire uh yeah stop

Corey 53:41

stop it like hey no no don't no don't sing another no i'm gonna already have to bleep that out oh

Corey 53:48

yeah you're familiar with so can you familiar with rules around these he's not he's

Corey 53:53

yeah of course i'm

Corey 53:55

i'm not i'm not joking i am actually gonna have to bleep this out you're

Annalise 53:58

you're giving cory extra work um

Annalise 54:04

okay next question um because i care about our listeners they want to talk about the toronto election 5403

Annalise 54:13

discord wants to talk about it so steven carter i don't know give me four sentences of opinion on the toronto election i'll

Carter 54:23

i'll tell you something olivia chow coming back out we talked about this who was the person who was going to be able to take the lead right off the bat it was going to be someone who'd already articulated a full platform who was is extremely well known to uh to to the people of toronto and now we wind up with chow versus saunders and i'm not sure that either one of those is the best potential mayor for toronto but you know each of them is well known each of them came out with big with big uh uh big money and now they're going to be able to um you know run the table on this thing i'm i'm disappointed by the quality of candidates but i am happy because cory and i uh said what was going to to happen and it is of course as it always does because cory and i are elite it

Carter 55:08

it has happened that's

Annalise 55:10

that's way more than four sentences i'm sucking up cory a

Carter 55:12

a bit because cory

Annalise 55:13

cory toronto election you

Annalise 55:15

tell us that he's

Annalise 55:16

about tell us your thoughts four sentences

Corey 55:22

76 candidates is a really big field to state the obvious and olivia chow is more than double where the other people are in this if it stays this divided if there's not some sort of congealing of candidates here if there's not a winnowing i i feel like i didn't originally think olivia chow would necessarily win it all at first because i thought exactly what steven said big name recognition big boost at the start but i mean

Corey 55:49

mean shit steven i guess it's a good thing there's no such thing as vote splitting because she could win with 25 percent listen vote

Annalise 55:55

not exist. It's lightning round. Stephen Carter does not get to respond. If people want to find out more about the Toronto election, there's a Discord channel for that.

Annalise 56:04

So get on Discord. Stephen Carter sent out the link. I can't help but notice that the AFL

Carter 56:08

AFL scores is gone. What happened there?

Carter 56:12

Who was in charge of that fucking decision? Next

Annalise 56:14

Next lightning round question is former Alberta Liberal leader David Swan. He tweeted an endorsement of of um of rachel nollie and the ndp good move bad move what do we think of this well

Corey 56:29

well it depends on your goals i i think it's i it was a weird okay can i can we create can i be like a little small about like the construction of the tweet yes

Corey 56:39

thank you yeah the fact that he tweeted and it was he tweeted on behalf of himself and the former president of the alberta liberal party

Corey 56:50

you could see doing the other way around, like maybe David Swan's not on Twitter these days, but you know, Pete Helfrich then puts it out. Pete's a great guy, by the way.

Corey 56:59

But so that was weird. It was weird that he actually didn't mention he was Alberta liberal leader. He kept using the acronym ALP, which I like, you've got to be pretty deep in Alberta politics to not take a beat and be like, what's the ALP? And yet somehow he was seeming to target an audience that understood what the acronym ALP was, but didn't know who he was, because he then signed off with the fact that he was the former leader of the ALP and a former MLA. And it was really interesting to see the quote tweets, because 50% of them plus were, this

Corey 57:30

this guy used to be the ALP leader. like the fact that people needed to annotate his tweet to be like wow this is why this matters is is problematic so d minus on construction um i think it is also very funny very funny to me that um and this was the same day that like the alberta liberals launched their health policy and david swan's a former doctor so guess that wasn't endorsed by david swan good time guys guys yeah

Corey 57:58

yeah great timing but ultimately it does speak to kind of this clash of civilizations election this two battleships everybody pick a side there are no third parties and ultimately i think that benefits well i think in general that benefits the ndp so you know it's not it's not nothing but it's not something you know it's just a thing carter

Annalise 58:18

carter was it a good strategy move by strategy oh i

Carter 58:21

i tell you something you know watching david swan pick up his amazing communication communication style right where he left it um in the gutter in the sewer in the

Carter 58:33

great guy great guy really nice guy sending tweets absolutely horrible as a party leader yes

Corey 58:41

well i thought you were gonna say as a tweeter but yes he is uh well still

Carter 58:46

tweet ever we've gone through this once on the podcast before when uh when

Carter 58:53

swan's aide tweeted uh what was it snow oh it

Corey 58:56

it was it was like it was snowing in may or something and he and and

Corey 59:00

and so david's ea brendan wayne was on

Corey 59:05

on the wrong account and tweeted it's snowing in edmonton fml meaning fuck my life and so it looked like david swan was tweeting this and

Corey 59:15

and everybody i didn't

Annalise 59:16

didn't know this and i know brendan's this is even funnier

Corey 59:21

everybody really liked david swan on twitter for a day oh my

Carter 59:25

my god david swan gets us

Corey 59:31

then he and then he basically disavowed yeah too bad because he was he was cool for like four hours yeah what

Annalise 59:36

what did he what did he say how did he disavow basically gave

Corey 59:39

gave a very david swan tweet like that probably said as leader of the alp i don't think that language is appropriate right this

Annalise 59:48

I don't know how I missed that I didn't know about that oh classic sorry

Annalise 59:55

I took a soft track again I've

Annalise 1:00:01

it's okay Carter it's okay I'll do one more you know what I'll show one more in the lightning round we just went past the hour

Carter 1:00:09

hour so I'd like to commend you on your overtime thank you yeah

Annalise 1:00:12

yeah I'm keeping you on your toes

Annalise 1:00:16

cbc is back on twitter good strategy move or bad strategy move steven carter the

Carter 1:00:22

the best strategy move it was like it was like they were listening to cory hogan i actually don't remember my original position on this so i

Annalise 1:00:30

i think it flip-flops like 12 times then

Carter 1:00:33

then i was right and cory was wrong i know cory was right and i was also right and you were the one who was wrong and you should sit there and you're wrong i was

Annalise 1:00:40

was wrong but cory is this strategy wise good

Annalise 1:00:44

good or bad that they're back uh

Corey 1:00:48

uh look it was bad for them to leave it was an untenable situation yeah it was an untenable

Corey 1:00:57

that's exactly why i knew they would come back which they did because steven i was it was right you

Carter 1:01:03

you were so right yeah

Carter 1:01:05

this is the worst podcast ever for me by the way you being right is just horrible by the way A Jeb Bush hats

Carter 1:01:13

hats still available in the strategists, actually westofcenter.ca. Yeah, if you go to

Corey 1:01:22

no, look, I think that I thought it was foolish for them to leave in the nature they did, A, because it looked political and B, because they wouldn't be able to stick to their guns. So as much as we've talked about this on the pod, I need the listeners to know literally every episode since Annalise and I after have argued about this. So my rightness is triple rightness

Corey 1:01:41

the reason why I thought it was bad is because I thought they'd have to come back because they need Twitter and they did and they came back

Annalise 1:01:49

back but they don't need Twitter it doesn't get them that many clicks and yet

Carter 1:01:52

yet here they are Annalise your argument falls flat we're

Annalise 1:01:56

we're gonna leave it there that's

Annalise 1:01:58

that's a wrap can you

Annalise 1:02:00

that's a wrap on episode 10 who was right and who was wrong can

Carter 1:02:05

you just let us know one more time we've

Annalise 1:02:07

we've addressed it they if they were doing good strategy i would have been right they should have just stayed away i don't know why they came back that's a wrap on episode 10 section of the strategist my name is natalie sclingfield with you as always stephen carter

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