Transcript
Annalise
0:02
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1053. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil. With you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan. Good evening, guys. I
Carter
0:11
I liked the first one. The first take was way better. That
Corey
0:14
so low energy. I didn't like it as much. That's why I said, let's do it again.
Annalise
0:18
Guys, the issue is you can't all give me hand signals. It
Annalise
0:22
doesn't work. work in fairness
Annalise
0:25
hand you just don't
Carter
0:26
don't seem to be able to understand when we all give you a hand signal and it's all different maybe
Annalise
0:32
maybe we gotta try a different we gotta try a different strategy it's been a few months and you say i don't have as much pep as zane in the intro do you do the hand signals for zane you
Carter
0:42
you know what we do for zane tell me uh we explain to zane how it's going to work every time literally we have for eight years tell them exactly how it's going going to unfold uh and he he does not like it he thinks
Carter
0:56
that's that's a bad plan so it
Carter
0:58
was much as you don't like this i assure you the alternative is worse one
Corey
1:03
one of those things that was kind of funny the first time and then not for the next 20 and then really funny every time and now
Annalise
1:09
now it's eight years later yeah
Carter
1:11
yeah and it's good
Corey
1:12
good to have traditions annalise that's
Corey
1:14
important thing here yeah
Annalise
1:16
yeah yeah yeah the listeners like that stuff and you care a lot they don't even see it that's That's what makes
Carter
1:21
makes it great, right?
Carter
1:22
right? Like the amount of stuff that we do that's fantastic that the listeners don't even know about. I mean, really, that's the whole podcast. What else,
Corey
1:28
else, Carter? It's all a rich tapestry. That was it. What else? That was literally the end of the list. It's a rich tapestry, though. Of one
Carter
1:35
All the thinking that goes into this podcast, they don't know about that. They don't know how hard we work on it to
Carter
1:40
to come up with the right stuff for them. All
Annalise
1:43
All the thinking, yeah. There is a lot of thinking that goes into every episode.
Corey
1:48
I know. seven days until the alberta election is called gang yeah
Annalise
1:53
yeah that's what we're talking about that's what we're talking about tonight we're actually gonna do a show but i don't do what do you want to do this small talk or should we move into our first segment guys
Carter
2:02
guys listen i am six for seven in
Annalise
2:05
in our first segment this
Corey
2:09
this is a smart move
Annalise
2:10
what the hell does does anyone besides you care about about afl yeah
Carter
2:15
yeah like i'm getting like massive amounts of feedback on my three people two people i'm like you know i i asked the audience who i should who i should pick and i listened to them they love it oh
Carter
2:27
oh they love it okay
Annalise
2:29
sure okay okay moving on to our first segment our first segment is called the next seven days um yeah
Annalise
2:37
yeah cory kind of predicted this smart smart guy cory You know, here
Carter
2:42
here I was asking what the topics were going to be and Corey had already figured it out, you
Annalise
2:46
he predicted it. Yeah. So we're one week out, essentially, from a May 1 rit drop. We're talking tonight, Sunday evening, most people will probably be listening Monday morning. And so if they fast forward seven days, it's like it's rit drop day. um and we're going to spend time in the coming weeks using this alberta election as kind of a case study um for an election cycle and so let's start that now let's start chatting about what these seven days before rit drop looks like um for each campaign so probably a lot here it's going to be a super busy um seven days but cory because you predicted this as our first segment And Carter is not prepared. Let's start with you.
Annalise
3:30
What are the kinds of things like what are the what are the top priorities? And we can kind of get into the nitty gritty of different topics. But like, what are the top priorities right now for a campaign seven days before Red Drop? up
Corey
3:44
these are my least favorite seven days in a campaign like the the anticipation before the the firing is just just the worst um i will say in my experience that maybe stevens has been different um
Corey
3:58
um that um the seven days before you think you're going to be more prepared and more ready than you are like there's just like all sorts of random things that come across your your radar that you're like, oh shit, is that done? Oh my God, that candidate still doesn't have signs. Holy crap. Like how come that literature is still not here? I ordered that like eight weeks ago, you know? And, and so, um, it's a lot of, uh, anxiety. Have I forgotten anything? Have
Corey
4:26
Have I gotten it all? And, uh, it's going back and circling through and, and checklist after checklist after checklist and preparation. And, and in my experience, you're never actually as prepared as you want to be.
Annalise
4:38
Carter, how about you? Are they your least favorite week before?
Carter
4:43
There's a lot of least favorite weeks, but yeah, I mean, we're now into the top five least favorite weeks of a campaign. So the
Carter
4:50
the problem with this is that you just really don't know where it's going to go. I mean, Corey's right. This is the week of discovering problems. So several weeks ago, we would have put together the ground game, you know, pieces, who's going to be running which campaigns, who's, you know, pulling together all the campaign managers, making sure we've got all of that operating do you know who's got digital media people pulling them all together you know all of that would have been done in the previous few weeks so now what we'd want to be seeing is a functioning ground game we'd want to be seeing people out uh door knocking we'd want to make sure that the volunteers were being contacted all of these things that you know you don't want to wait for the main for the main event before you're making sure that the ground is working uh the next thing is tour you're going to make sure that your entire tour structure is scripted. We talked a little bit about this last week. It's all scripted in advance. That's not because it's all going to happen like that. But you need to know what you're switching away from. You need to know what your options are. You know, we had planned to have a talk, you know, to talk about the economy on the third last day. Oh, well, this great opportunity is coming up on the eighth last day. Do we want to do that? You know, yes or no. We'll move this third last day event to the eighth last day. Advertising, most of the advertising booked. I mean, if you drive around, I'm sure anywhere in Alberta, you'll see ads for the UCP ads for the NDP. And then there's this little niggly detail of policy, which I think that we put too much effort in. But I know most political parties actually think that it matters. I think they're wrong, but they do spend an inordinate amount of time on it. And it's a great bugaboo of mine, because I want them focusing on on things that actually win elections, and they want to focus on, you know, the
Carter
6:32
the political equivalent of playing Dungeons and Dragons. What
Annalise
6:36
What are those things that win elections if it's not policy?
Carter
6:40
It's about reaction. It's about ground game. It's about setting the brand. It's about setting the question, right? Is the, you know, if the question is blank, then what, you know, then
Carter
6:49
then we win. If the question is this, then we lose, right? If the question, I would posit the following. if we are talking about health care at the end of this election then the ndp win if we are talking about the economy at the end of this election then the ucp win so you
Carter
7:05
you know like how do you make like who the fuck cares what the policies are i mean no one can no one can remember except cory because he's got this memory that's amazing you know last sunday the ndp released a policy on crime and safety does anybody remember it anybody talking about it no
Carter
7:22
but it's going to be in their policy book i
Carter
7:24
don't you know i don't know why so
Annalise
7:30
what is the ballot box question like for this election do you know it yet do you know it well you know seven days out before that's fundamentally
Corey
7:37
fundamentally what the election's about like to steven's point people
Corey
7:41
people think that campaigns are about wrestling over outcomes they're not they're about wrestling over the question itself and if you could make people in Alberta think about the campaign in terms of which
Corey
7:51
which is the party I can trust most on health care well then yeah the NDP win and their job is to make that the question and likewise it's the UCP's job to make that not the question to make the economy the question to make fighting with Ottawa the question the things that they know that they test better on than um than the NDP so um a campaign is always about how you set a question that you are the natural answer to and and so in this seven days before you're sitting there with your your plans which will all be blown up and you are trying to determine how you are going to get people to feel that that is the question they need to have on their mind as they go into the campaign so
Corey
8:30
people do it differently this is where you get into the the craft of it the art of it as much as anything i i like to look at it in terms of okay week one's theme is this so every day's announcement will be a policy about this or a story about this, right? So imagine it was a different era. And imagine that healthcare was only one of the three weeks that you wanted to talk about. Maybe you'd have a, you know, an announcement about funding on Monday. And maybe you would have an announcement on foreign credentials for healthcare workers on Tuesday. And perhaps you would have care
Corey
9:03
care in your neighborhood as the announcement on Wednesday. and on Thursday you would have an announcement about um oh
Corey
9:09
oh shoot I don't know like you're going to increase coverage so it's also going to include a certain amount of dental and then on Friday you do a bit of a recap but it's a bit of a sweetener to the media so they still have something to write about you also put in uh the idea that everybody is going to you know be guaranteed a a certain level of care like you're you're going to never have to wait more than six weeks for or knee surgery or something like that. So every day you're doing something different. Every day you're in a different place with a different backdrop and a different skyscraper behind you, whatever it is, that's Tora's job. And you're saying something about a specific policy that wraps up into the theory of the week, that wraps up into the theory of the campaign. And the whole purpose of all of that activity underneath that ladders up is to tell a story about what matters that you are already seen as the answer to, in all likelihood. could
Annalise
10:00
carter do you agree with that strategy yeah
Carter
10:02
yeah i mean i he kind of snuck the word story in at the end i was just writing story story story all the way through that you
Annalise
10:08
you were taking notes wow yeah
Carter
10:10
yeah well uh i had to i didn't even know
Annalise
10:12
know you had a notebook i
Carter
10:14
i didn't know how long he was going to go before you know he scratched it at the desk um
Annalise
10:18
um he does not have a notebook spoiler i do today today i'm pretty excited about it you
Carter
10:23
you know see i'm
Carter
10:25
uh story underline uh it is all all about creating a story that people will remember and they can identify with. Too many people do what Corey just kind of did and then fixed at the end. He listed off all of the tour activities, all of the policy announcements, the tour elements. No one thinks that way. No one thinks, well, I've just seen this policy unfold in front of me and I really like it. No, what they want to see is the story that's related to that, right? So you have to be making sure at each of these areas or each of these announcements, you're actually making a story and you're thinking of things like what is the narrative from this you know from this announcement what is the uh how are people going to interact with it how are people going to see themselves in this story well who are the characters right so we would often talk about you know seniors or we would talk about um you
Carter
11:18
you know moms who wake up with their kids at uh you know 3 30 in the morning just wondering what they should do and you know i think that the answers
Corey
11:27
answers go back to bed but yeah keep going yeah
Carter
11:29
yeah well with the kids man you remember you've got kids you may have to get up with them occasionally um zane complains all the time that that's all that's all he does i'm like it's all he does yeah
Corey
11:42
to welcome to fatherhood yeah
Carter
11:43
yeah whiner um anyways i i just think that the the stories are the most important elements and i think that that's still where both of these uh campaigns struggle each of them has the announcement stuff down. I mean, to a degree, I think the UCP is struggling to find anything vaguely resembling a narrative because they've been off track for so long. But the NDP still has a difficult time relating things back to you and me and my parents and my friends. They have a difficult time relating things to story. And that's going to be their challenge over the course of the next five weeks. Can they, in fact, create a story that people see themselves in as characters? Yeah.
Corey
12:23
Yeah. And you know what? It's a great point. And I was more talking about those nuts and bolts in terms of you've got a calendar and you're saying like, I'm going to be here on these days. And in these weeks, I'm going to be talking about these things. But it is all about story. And those little pieces, those little tour events, those little op-eds that you managed to get out there, the rallies that you have on days where you don't really have anything to do besides a rally, those are all means to an end, not an end in their own right. Right. And Stephen's right. A lot of parties think that the policy is the end, but the policy is a means to an end. It is a small character in a story. And so the whole purpose of these policy announcements is bluntly, in a campaign sense, not about policy. It's to create a media hook to allow you to put the next chapter of your story out there, to say yet another thing about the thing you were talking about yesterday and that you're talking about all week. That is the chapter in the book you are trying to write for the election. Do
Annalise
13:18
Do either of you have examples that come to mind of campaigns that have, and maybe not the whole campaign, maybe it was the first couple weeks or the end, but like that have nailed that narrative and nailed that story piece?
Carter
13:30
oh i think the wild rose in 2012 really nailed nailed the narrative and setting of the question you know it was basically aren't you tired of the pcs and the you know everything that they did kind of made people remember how much they disliked the pcs um and kenny did the same thing in 2019 right like he absolutely set the whole story the entire the reason you aren't The reason you don't have enough employment is because you were screwed by the NDP, right? This had nothing to do with world oil prices. This had nothing to do with your companies. This had everything to do with Rachel Notley and the NDP. And because both of those stories were set so well, and people could see themselves in those characters, both of those campaigns. Oh, no. Hold on. While those wound up shitting the bed. I was misremembering that. Oh, that's right. Because we then said a new story, which was, you can't trust them. They're crazy. And that story replaced the previous story. But I'll tell you, we were losing. We
Carter
14:38
We were going to lose until the last 10 days of that campaign. And
Carter
14:42
And then Rob Anderson really came through for us.
Corey
14:45
It's a real MVP for you. Really
Carter
14:47
Really spectacular work. You
Corey
14:48
You know, I think the big one that you've missed of recent times is Donald Trump in 2016. He
Corey
14:54
made it about make America great again.
Corey
14:57
The fact of the matter is, as little as you might like that, as much as you might think that it's wrong, and that was not the reality of America at the time, and that perhaps there were racial connotations, perhaps there were all sorts of things in there that were just kind of ugly components. opponents, at the end of the day, you knew what Donald Trump's campaign was about. You did not know what Hillary Clinton's campaign was about.
Carter
15:20
Yeah, I got in a lot of trouble when I started talking about this after Redford's win, but I'm going to do it again anyways, because that's the way I roll. But there's something that becomes mythical about these stories. Really good stories take on this mythical approach, and they become larger than the truths that support them. And And it's one, you know, a lot of people try and then slay the truth, you know, the fact that the truths don't actually support the story all the time. You're never going to defeat a story because it's not 100% true, right? The Princess Bride is a great story. It's not true. There are no rodents of unusual size.
Carter
15:59
But, you know, it doesn't matter. It's a great freaking story and I can see myself in it. You know, I've identified with Princess Buttercup right from the beginning.
Corey
16:10
knew you were gonna say that too like i just i
Corey
16:12
want you to know that yeah
Carter
16:13
that's what makes it good carter
Annalise
16:14
carter do you want to just talk a little bit more about 2012 and i think specifically we have some new listeners um that maybe weren't weren't around in 2012 and don't know what you're talking about so i it doesn't need to take a lot of time um but do you want to just talk a little expand a little bit more on what you've been saying about how wild rose was doing great with the narrative And then you came in and turned everything around.
Carter
16:40
you teasing me now? Or is this something you
Annalise
16:42
you actually want me to do? Did that sound like I was teasing you? It sounded like you
Carter
16:46
you were like, no, Stephen, why don't you tell us once again how you were so great? And Corey only won four seats. Five.
Carter
16:53
It's okay. I always forget Ross Sherman because I never know which party he was with.
Annalise
16:57
Okay. Well, tell people which parties.
Carter
17:01
Corey was running the liberal campaign. campaign. I was running the PC campaign. The Wild Rose campaign was run by, I think Vitor was running
Carter
17:10
running that one. It was
Corey
17:12
was a tag team. But
Carter
17:14
But Rob Anderson was keenly involved as the caucus chair of the campaign or something along those lines. And the Wild Rose had just kicked our ass all the way through. And they came to, you know, we had basically, we were at the top of the mountain in January and we started going downhill in February. And by the time we called the election in, I think it was March, we presented our budget, we told the people that we were going to take care of them. And the people responded with a resounding yawn. They did not think that the plans and the strategies that we'd put forward were particularly good. And Wildrose basically took the oldest yarn in the book of it's time for a change. And they threw it out there. Their story was, they've been there for 4042
Carter
17:59
4042 years, or whatever the number was at that time and they've gotten old they've gotten stale and you don't like them and
Carter
18:06
and all they had to do was you know be competent and for the first i mean we shit the bed right off the bat we had one of the staffers say that she uh oh
Corey
18:18
didn't understand children's issues because she doesn't have children yeah she's a stepmother um
Carter
18:22
um if you're wondering not a great start uh that took four days out of the campaign right off the bat uh then we got into to um a whole bunch of other problems as we were moving through like every day was another problem and i can't remember all of them but it
Carter
18:38
it literally was every day and then our campaign team was
Carter
18:42
was baffled by the numbers because we'd never seen numbers like this we'd never seen numbers so low for the pcs and so they didn't they didn't know how to respond right the the um then they got to you know the actual uh
Carter
18:57
uh when we were throwing everything against the wall i mean we talked about cory's uh we were trying to basically create a story that they were extremists and untrustworthy and
Carter
19:06
then cory and his infinite wisdom put up a website that put quotes from our caucus against quotes from their caucus i had
Corey
19:13
had to guess which
Carter
19:16
i mean it was all it was all all of our caucus quotes were done by ted morton but nonetheless it was
Corey
19:22
was it was was an early social media hit though tory or wild rose yeah dot ca and it was a brilliant
Carter
19:27
brilliant yeah brilliant piece of course good at those websites yeah
Carter
19:31
it was a brilliant piece of work um and then we we struggled
Carter
19:35
struggled to find like we were throwing everything we could against the wall we we had background on link biefeld and you know all these all these different uh candidates
Carter
19:46
candidates no one was biting and then out of nowhere comes lake of fire uh blake roberts and winnipeg found it and put it up on twitter and paula simons grabbed it and the rest is as they say history now she could have spiked that two days in but she managed to keep it going for uh 10 days the the mayors came in uh stephen mandel and uh na had nenshi came in and said that the wild rose couldn't govern if they They had this type of people in their caucus. And by the time they threw them off the team, it was way too late. So the narrative of we're ready to take over, essentially, was completely undone by that frame.
Annalise
20:29
Corey, anything else you wanted to add there about your memories of 2012?
Corey
20:34
I mostly try to forget it.
Corey
20:37
No, I mean, it was an interesting campaign. I can tell you that Alison Redford had an interesting place on the spectrum. So before Alison Redford was elected, the Liberals elected their leader a month before the Conservatives elected their leader, the PCs elected their leader. And everyone thought Gary Marr was going to win the PC leadership, obviously went to Alison Redford. And I can tell you both
Corey
21:03
both an anecdote and a stat. The anecdote is the night that Alison Redford won, I
Corey
21:09
I was at a party with a bunch of liberals, and
Corey
21:12
and they were cheering. And I remember thinking, well, we are well and truly fucked, because this is a party event, and people are celebrating Alison Redford's victory. So that's the anecdote. The
Corey
21:23
hard stat is the Liberals dropped in the polls from about 22%, 23% to 11%, 12% overnight as that support went to Alison Redford. Now, that 11% never came back. What happened was Redford then, by moving more towards the center, more towards the left relatively, surrendered a fair bit to the Wild Rose and the contest became about the Wild Rose versus the PCs and the PCs shut out everyone else. The election ended, I think, with the Liberals getting like 10 or 11% of the vote and the NDP getting 1% behind that. But it was really a contest between the Wild Rose and the PCs. And so as like, as somebody who was running the campaign for, we knew we were going to be the third party well in advance, like the Wild Rose were pulling ahead of the Liberals for quite some time.
Corey
22:12
but uh it was a survival election it was like what do you keep and we did manage to get all of our incumbents re-elected but um yeah we had an entirely different set of problems and uh you know our main strategy there was really about trying to avoid steven's ballot question right and
Corey
22:29
so this is where the thrust and the parry comes in and so we were trying to make it clear that there wasn't a ton of and you're right like ted morton was half of our quotes on that fucking Victoria Wildrose thing.
Corey
22:42
But we were trying to say there's not really a difference. If you actually want change, you've got to go with us. Now, did that work? No. But that was our attempt to wrestle the ballot question away, just as Stephen at the same time was trying to make one about the competency of the Wildrose, just as the Wildrose was trying to make one overall about you're tired of these guys, it's time for change. Had
Carter
23:05
Had we kept our original brand position, I think we would have had a much easier time of it. But by the time we got to April of 2012, the brand position that we had in 2011 of, you know, mother of a young daughter, daughter of aging parents, we'd abandoned because Alison just didn't want to be that brand. And I think that that's one of the challenges of election campaigns is that sometimes your candidate doesn't want to fit the role that is best for the election. And again, I worry about both Danielle Smith and Rachel Notley in this. Both of them are very strong women who have their own ideas about how they wish to be perceived. And that's great. Got to be authentic. We've talked about being authentic a lot, but you've got to be authentic in a role that people actually want to vote for. Being authentic in a position that people don't want to vote, that person's called a loser. And And, you
Carter
24:01
you can be authentic all you want if you lose.
Annalise
24:04
So what are those brand stories this time around? Like if you're simplifying it as much as you did for Redford of mother of a daughter, daughter of aging parents, what are those for Smith and Notley this time around? Well,
Carter
24:19
Well, I was chatting with a friend today and we were talking about what, you know, if the UCP, I feel like the UCP is sliding right now. And the UCB is sliding because they've somehow managed to take their core issues and push them off to the side and talk about health care and talk about – I cannot
Corey
24:36
cannot believe the, you know, kind
Corey
24:38
kind of the base level malfeasance right now with them spending so much time on ground where the answer is actively the NDP.
Carter
24:47
Yeah. So they, they, but I, you know, my, my theory was, you
Carter
24:52
you know, and then we use this a lot with Jeff Davison's campaign because Jeff Davison's campaign in Calgary in, in 2021 was so bad that we just kept saying, well, they're not this bad. We're going to have to, you know, we'll have to see, you
Carter
25:05
you know, they'll, they'll pull it out at some point and
Carter
25:07
do what's right. And I think that that's where we are with the Wild Rose. the wild rose brand position is we protect the economy i'm sorry wild ucp's brand position is we protect the economy the ndp's brand position is we protect you and your family those two brand positions then fall into whatever story we wish to tell but
Carter
25:27
the the you have to if you're the ndp you have to believe that the ucp isn't so bad that they're going to go five more weeks without without pivoting back to the economy. It's just, it's, you know, Corey's mentioned, it's just kind of unbelievable that we would see these two campaigns
Carter
25:48
or at least the UCP campaign kind of so structurally bad at this point, but you cannot prepare
Carter
25:55
prepare for them to continue to be this bad. And you don't prepare for them if they're going to continue to be like this bad anyways. If they're bad, you just ignore them.
Corey
26:07
You don't need to change your strategy. There's an adage that it's not a very good strategy if it depends on the other guys. And
Corey
26:13
And I think that's very true. And if the UCP want to spend all their time talking about health care, that's
Corey
26:21
that's fantastic. It doesn't need to change your strategy if you're the NDP. You can keep talking about health care. And in fact, they're just going to amplify it because, again, people more naturally trust the NDP than the UCP on health care. And if the UCP want to make this election all about healthcare,
Corey
26:34
I mean, Stephen's already said this, they will lose. If that's what we're talking about at the end of the election, the NDP are going to win this election.
Annalise
26:41
So going back, we've
Annalise
26:44
we've talked about this for a while, guys, but just going back to the next seven days, like this week, what about the leader specifically? What do you want your leader doing in the seven days before? And does that mean like in the media every single day or like what should they be doing? And then I guess we can talk a little bit about when there's maybe things that you didn't predict, like an illness.
Carter
27:09
Well, what I want them doing is whatever they're told. What I don't want them doing is trying to call the play from the bus. So in campaigns, you're in the bubble or you're out of the bubble. And most people are in the bubble, right? Because we care more about the campaign than the general population does. so everybody who's working on the campaign is in a bubble of a sort but then there's really in the bubble and there is nothing more in the bubble than being on the leaders tour bus being on the leaders tour bus you only hear the negative you do not understand what's going on with the bigger picture you're not even seeing necessarily the media hits or anything like that you might get clippings you might be shown you know what uh people you know think is important at that particular moment but you're not you're just not getting the fullness of of how things are going or how things are feeling and
Carter
27:59
yet nonetheless most candidates um call the ball they want us they want to be in charge of how the campaign is unfolding they think that you know their instincts are what got them to this place and they're not going to uh suddenly become just somebody who who sits on the sidelines and waits to be told what to do. But in province-wide campaigns, there is no other way to do it. You have to listen to your team. And if you don't trust your team, get a different team. Because there's no means of success without putting your trust in the people who are not blinded by the bubble.
Annalise
28:40
Corey, I'll ask you the same question because Carter didn't answer it. No,
Annalise
28:45
a whole different thing. In a way that you didn't
Annalise
28:49
what, do you want your leader doing media every day this week, Corey?
Corey
28:56
Yeah, you know, I was racking my brain as Stephen was going on as he does. And I was trying to remember what
Corey
29:03
what I have done in the weeks before a campaign, you know, like what, and I honestly can't remember. And part of that is actually because of the division of labor Stephen was talking about. You know, the campaign manager's got campaign manager stuff to do. The leader's got leader stuff to do. And if everybody's doing their role, things move a little bit smoother here. The answer is fundamentally about need. And every campaign is going to have different needs. So is money a little light? Well, then the leaders probably work in the phones with donors, especially, you know, in an environment where you can get, you know, those big donors, like the three, $4,000 that you need to just fuel the campaign. are you a little worried about candidates that's not going to be the case for either of these two parties this time but you then you try to go out and drum up the last of the candidates you need and figure all of that out there
Corey
29:50
there are a couple of nuts and bolts things the leader has no business being involved in and any time free and any time you get the opportunity you also want to be setting the stage for the campaign it is true that people will pay more attention during the campaign but outside of the campaign period the week they're going to be paying the most attention intention, week
Corey
30:07
week before the campaign period. So you do treat it as a bit of campaign light, you're building up to it, you're trying to create this sense of momentum, lots of process stories about what the parties are doing in the lead up to an election gets very meta in that sense. And you try to hook on to those as best you can. And quite often, if you're sitting there, and you've got your calendar to almost the start of where this was, and you're looking at those 28 days, and you've got 35 days worth of stuff to do, well, then you're going to spend this week doing those those other seven days of things right you're going to pull it out and even though it's not in the campaign it's not you know it's pre-launch it's not the high value stuff you want to structure it along those ways but you start telling that story and start building towards the things that you want to say and and really truly there's just not enough hours in the day i'm the leader like the campaign manager like any of the campaign staff will just be saying uh shit i don't i don't have enough to get done everything that i want to get done the other thing i'll say is there's a a very practical thing that occurs the week before a campaign when you're an elected official that's cleaning up a lot of shit you know
Corey
31:08
know like you've got offices you've got files you've got things you've got to take care of in case you don't come back and um or if you do come back it's in a very different context and and you've just got to deal with all of that usually you would do that through your staff but some stuff you just can't so you got to manage that too hey
Carter
31:28
hey do i get a chance to answer that one or yeah
Annalise
31:31
yeah you know what because you just had like a really large sigh it's the mic is yours carter take it away here's what
Carter
31:38
you're never going to give up the opportunity right now it's a campaign the fact that the writ hasn't been dropped is irrelevant yes there is uh this is it this is the campaign period um this is the uh unintended consequence of the fixed election dates um we can have a bigger broader conversation on that uh at some other time but this is what the people wanted this is what the people got now we have a longer campaign period and that's just the way it is going to go so you know they're campaigning 24 7 from now until um unless
Carter
32:13
unless the writ somehow didn't drop but this is this is it right till the end so
Annalise
32:19
glad you jumped in and said that carter it's so insightful answer
Carter
32:25
way better how i
Carter
32:27
i answer the questions that you should be be asking that's the same thing with cory or cory and zane it's true it's
Annalise
32:35
it's not true um it's it's an intense 35 days as both of you have said how do you go about keeping people healthy during those 35 days you
Corey
32:44
you don't oh god i mean ultimately the thing about campaigns in general which i think makes them very interesting relative to a lot of things that occur in the corporate world uh even even happen in politics and in longer lead like party senses and whatnot is they're not built for distance right they are built to survive 28 days 35 days you you have fairly ramshackle processes and procedures including ways to deal with like your own personal health and sanity now one of the things that was super interesting about the 2015 campaign federally not provincially was how how long it was. You'll recall Stephen Harper called it, and it was just months before this particular campaign. And one of the things we talked about at the time was
Corey
33:28
was you could see people starting to lose their mind about halfway through. And it was just too long to have one team running, you know, redline that long, and they needed to kind of swap them out. But the reality is you should probably be able to manage 28, 35 days. I hope they're going into this somewhat somewhat well rested. Um, and I hope that they've somewhat time managed themselves because there is just this phenomenon that any campaigner will know, which is like, you don't even want to sleep. You realize you feel so acutely every hour that goes by, uh, that you are not doing something productive. And, uh, you know, you're working 16 hour days plus trying to get things done. Um,
Corey
34:08
that's why campaigns in Canada, I think aren't longer. And so, uh, in terms of how are you trying How you're trying to pace yourself, how you're trying to manage your health, your sleep schedule, all of that. I mean, I don't know, Stephen, maybe you've got different thoughts, but in my experience, you don't, right? You live this unhealthy to the wall lifestyle and you hope that somebody around you is sane enough at any time to be that break on your judgment.
Corey
34:32
Usually they're not though. And that's part of why we have said in
Corey
34:36
in the last, I've said this so often, Stephen's heard me say this a million times, in the last week, a campaign runs against itself. And
Corey
34:44
part of that is because everybody is so tired and so prone to mistakes and so in that bubble he was talking about that they can no longer see reason and they no longer act reasonably.
Carter
34:55
Yeah, Corey's not wrong on the whole health thing. I mean, you're going to go 35 days straight. You're going to work 16 hour days for those 35 days and you're going to be exhausted. exhausted uh you're going to get sick and you will power through it and then after the campaign you are going to get so sick you think you're going to die because your body your body just beats the shit out of you yeah
Corey
35:18
yeah you're running on stress and adrenaline there
Carter
35:20
there are there are a few lessons that have been learned number one feed the campaign team um the campaigns that don't feed their team wind up you know with with even sicker group of people uh so food is usually brought in um by you know smart campaigns uh at least twice a day um sometimes
Carter
35:40
sometimes there's breakfasts but more more often than not there's not breakfast but you need the food to come in because people will not go out to eat they will stay where they are because they have shit to get done and then they will find out you know hours later that they've made a horrible mistake because they are now exhausted and they're going to collapse right here on the floor and when was was the last time you ate what is eating i don't even know what that is anymore so
Carter
36:05
so bringing in food is is one of the key ways and bringing in the right food like jesus you know you can't just eat subway for for the better part of uh um you know a month and a you know month plus you have to have decent food you have to have it in reasonable quantities um i like you know if you you have the money and it's a provincial campaign does a little catering contract to a small company can go a long ways i'll tell you the best food surrey i could go back to surrey tomorrow the food was unbelievable it
Annalise
36:41
it was not i'm still trying to lose
Corey
36:43
i'm still trying to lose it against subway i
Annalise
36:45
i didn't think you were gonna look really upset about that when you said you can't eat subway for 35 days you
Carter
36:50
you know what cory i was respecting your desire to eat at 7-eleven because I believe you ate at 7-Eleven every day of the 2012 campaign. Prove me wrong. I
Corey
36:59
I can't. I mean, I honestly can't. That was a pretty strong staple of mine. Okay,
Annalise
37:04
Okay, so on the illness thing, it has been reported that Rachel Notley has COVID right now.
Annalise
37:11
Timing-wise, and I guess there's two questions here. One, does COVID change the kind of what you guys are talking about because of isolation and not being around people and stuff? And two, timing wise, if
Annalise
37:23
if you were to get COVID over the next 35 days is now the best possible time to get it out of the way.
Corey
37:30
next week. Better last week than this week. You know, it's unfortunate for Rachel Notley, but there is a lot she can do remotely still. A lot of interviews, a lot of phone calls. You should also probably try to rest up and get over that, you know, but that's a tough break. break could be a lot tougher if it happened a week or two later.
Carter
37:53
Yeah, I agree. I think that this is the week to get sick. I mean, you don't want to be sick. But if you're going to be sick, this is the time to get sick. I mean, especially given that Daniel has not been seen in the media for the better part of a week anyways. So you're not really, you know, giving much up at this moment. You do not want to stay sick. You want to get healthy as soon as humanly possible. Okay,
Annalise
38:14
last question here is money. What does like spending look like this week in terms of before rules kick in?
Corey
38:24
it depends on how much money you have. If you've got enough for the entire campaign, then you are trying to shovel as much money out the door as this week as you possibly can to soften the ground, to do the advertising you want to do, to just take advantage of the fact that you are not currently covered by the campaign finance limits, right? The campaign spending limits, I mean.
Corey
38:45
If you don't, then you are probably sweating bullets about money and you're thinking about how you can get it and you're thinking about how much you can reasonably expect back to raise during the campaign and you're looking at the lines of credit that the party's got available if any and uh of course it's so dependent on finance rules these days and uh you know you've got to consider all of that um but as our friend steven likes to say money is the currency of politics you gotta have it you
Corey
39:11
you gotta spend it good
Carter
39:13
good job there cory i'm i'm proud of you you know we'll sell some more mugs today can people
Annalise
39:17
that's a good thing carter can Can people purchase it somewhere?
Carter
39:21
They can. If you go to westofcenter.ca, you can buy your
Annalise
39:25
- What's it on? It's
Annalise
39:27
It's on a coffee cup.
Corey
39:28
actually my favorite mug. It's a really good mug.
Carter
39:30
mug. It's a really nice mug. It's the better mug of the two mugs. I mean, yes, is that true? We have more than one mug. Yes, we have three.
Corey
39:36
In fact, we have three.
Carter
39:37
Three mugs. The third mug is the left
Carter
39:42
That's right. So, you
Carter
39:44
you know, get in there. Get that mug early. These
Annalise
39:46
These are real for people listening who think this is a joke. go to westofcenter.ca find out for yourself you
Corey
39:52
can also get them at the strategist.ca but i don't know but send them to
Carter
39:55
to westofcenter.ca because the cbc is paying for this one um
Corey
40:02
where was i oh money yeah
Carter
40:04
yeah i'm spending everything
Corey
40:04
everything i can um
Carter
40:06
um i would look i would look at how much money they tradition you know our party traditionally raises in the last four weeks weeks of a campaign. And I would bank on that. We are going to raise that. And everything else is out the door. We have spent every nickel that we can legally spend prior to the writ. So what
Annalise
40:27
what are you spending that money on this week?
Carter
40:30
Primarily advertising, because anything that isn't advertising is going to carry forward. So you may have, yeah, advertising is going to be the primary space. And I think you can see that that digital, you know, Corey's complaining about seeing too many ads. You know, that's where a lot of these things are going to, apparently he can't afford YouTube premium, but you know, I'm not here.
Corey
40:55
I think about it every now and then, and then I think, why?
Corey
41:00
Why would you do that? I got so many other things. I got that Disney Plus subscription, you know.
Carter
41:05
three kids, Carter. I was going to cancel. I bought Disney Plus because I was going to cancel on netflix still have netflix but don't tell
Carter
41:12
tell heather because she doesn't
Corey
41:13
doesn't know i think
Annalise
41:14
think she does not listen to this podcast
Corey
41:16
also your your daughter is our producer so yeah
Corey
41:23
do you think uses the netflix uses the
Carter
41:25
the netflix the most yeah
Carter
41:27
yeah that's exactly what maddie's doing in fact she's probably watching netflix right now right
Annalise
41:33
uh okay so you're spending all your money right now this every nickel on ads okay everything
Carter
41:38
everything yeah you know
Corey
41:39
know the challenge with spending it on anything else is that the way it it has to be accounted for is essentially like if you put a sign up now and it runs for the next five weeks 80 of that cost counts against your uh your campaign finance limits anyhow right so it's it's when the materials are used as the general is the general calculation yeah
Carter
42:00
yeah so you can't like stock up on buttons and then hand them out during the rate yeah the red right you have to do it right now yeah
Carter
42:06
you have to yeah you have to spend it and it has to be gone before the rate drops
Annalise
42:11
okay um okay we're gonna leave it there and uh you know what we're gonna move into like a 42 again
Annalise
42:19
i don't know what i'm doing we're gonna we're gonna move into like a lightning round that maybe has a couple extra questions how how was that 40 minutes you guys were saying you were saying such good things such oh my god insightful
Carter
42:32
like does she actually think our our egos need a stroke like that's the part that confuses me does that is that what she's thinking
Annalise
42:39
um how are we gonna do this okay lightning round guys we're gonna talk about the alberta party once again in our lightning round i can't why what are we doing okay this is why i don't know if you saw it uh you were probably doing something at 8 p.m on saturday night when this tweet went out but
Annalise
42:58
um they sent a tweet it says this we've
Annalise
43:01
we've been getting a lot of messages asking why we want something called a vote split we would
Annalise
43:06
would like to reassure albertans that we will not be splitting our votes with any other party that would be weird thank you and then it has a graphic that is some beautiful mountains and it says we hashtag love alberta all one word like this is an actual tweet that
Annalise
43:23
went out from the alberta party account i
Corey
43:26
i mean it's inspired by stephen carter yeah
Carter
43:28
yeah this This is the most upsetting part. Yes.
Annalise
43:31
So that's what I guess the lightning round question here is.
Annalise
43:36
I don't I don't even know the question. Like, what are they doing? What? Well, why are they tweeting this? Are they just trolling you, Carter?
Carter
43:43
Well, no, they so they're the big pushback that they're getting right now is why are you running at all? This is such an important election. We simply cannot have Danielle Smith win. You can't take any votes away from from the NDP. and their response has been my response which is there is no such thing as vote split and
Corey
44:03
it's wrong keep going you
Carter
44:05
you can keep talking but
Corey
44:05
but it's wrong um
Carter
44:06
um keep talking i'm gonna tell you
Corey
44:08
you why it's not wrong okay everybody starts
Carter
44:10
starts with zero votes
Corey
44:11
votes oh okay everybody
Carter
44:12
everybody starts with zero and then you add them because you don't have to vote for anybody in specific you know specifically and there is absolutely nothing that would indicate that a vote that went to the the Alberta party would have gone to the NDP if there hadn't been an Alberta party. In fact, all the evidence would point to the fact that the vote would not have gone to the NDP because if, because everybody knows the stakes in this election, everybody knows that this election is a battle between the NDP and the UCP. And they are still choosing as I used to choose the green party to park my vote in Calgary East because I just couldn't vote for Deepak. i
Annalise
44:50
i feel like you're arguing for vote
Carter
44:51
vote splitting now no it no what you're describing is is a lower number it is just simply when we have three or more candidates we
Carter
44:59
we have a lower win number you do not need 50 plus one cory
Annalise
45:04
cory is giving you so much attitude right now we should be recording video this is like i know like your dad and he's like a teenager and he's just like there's no such
Carter
45:13
as vote split if if if you could tell me that the ndp would get that vote if they didn't vote for this other party then maybe but there is absolutely nothing to indicate that that's actually how it works his
Annalise
45:26
his eyes are just closed now because he's been rolling them so much yeah
Corey
45:29
yeah i think i detached a retina it was just too much aces
Corey
45:33
aces i mean carter and i have had this argument for as long as i've known stephen carter which is sadly a very long time at this point like you
Corey
45:42
you know we're well into our second decade of of familiarity here of
Corey
45:50
yeah let's not go nuts but the
Corey
45:54
idea that there's no such thing as vote splitting is absurd like like in general and in specific let's talk about it in specific first how
Corey
46:02
how could we possibly know well people poll on this what's your first choice what's your second choice i do know that last election i think almost to your point the alberta party was taking rather equally from the ucp and the ndp oh on
Corey
46:16
on the whole weird when you get into specific writings that that math breaks down a little bit here you
Corey
46:22
you can check on it this time too the reality is the alberta party is polling so low it's hard to say but why
Carter
46:28
why bother why bother running the election when we've got these great polls why
Carter
46:31
why bother at all i mean the polls are also available prior to the election
Corey
46:35
election so that's the specifics people could actually choose
Corey
46:38
to that you treat the idea of where would these alberta party votes go like caveman treated lightning what is this how could we know you know that's ridiculous second if you truly believe there's nothing called vote splitting there
Carter
46:53
there is nothing called vote truly believe
Corey
46:54
believe there's not a thing called vote not a thing called
Corey
46:57
i would encourage you next time there's an election to run five candidates on the same platform and see what the fuck happens yeah
Carter
47:03
yeah here's what happens one of them will win and the others will lose no
Corey
47:08
sixth candidate i didn't talk about will win because the vote was split that's just between the other five there's
Carter
47:13
there's absolutely no evidence that you genuinely that is absolutely no absolutely you know who believes it's not just something you're double downing
Annalise
47:20
downing on because it's like your shtick
Corey
47:21
i mean he's been doubling down for 15 years on there
Carter
47:24
there is just there is no such thing as vote split and the reason i know i mean the the people who believe in vote split are always the losers the people who couldn't quite get over the number of votes that that were required say oh my god if we had just taken those votes from over there at that other party i'll tell you who's not complaining about vote split the guy who won with 42 percent of the vote the guy who won what
Corey
47:46
what happened in the 2015 provincial election fantastic
Carter
47:48
fantastic that's great news i've got 20 42 percent of the vote i don't give a shit that my my vote win number was lowered that's all that's happening your vote win number is lowering so in 2015
Corey
48:03
the ndp won they
Corey
48:05
I mean, they did. Although I seem to hear you say all of the time what actually happened is that the NDP didn't win. They've got to acknowledge the conditions are not... At our live fucking show, you talked about a vote split. You talked about...
Carter
48:17
I talked about a lower win number. Oh,
Corey
48:20
Oh, my God. That's
Annalise
48:20
That's just a different
Annalise
48:21
word for it. No,
Annalise
48:23
it's not. This is
Annalise
48:25
I win. How is the lower win number different than a vote split?
Carter
48:30
Well, imagine that you're trying to... Answer
Carter
48:33
question, Carter. how is it different how
Carter
48:35
how is it different how
Carter
48:37
how are they different because they're totally different because all it is because
Carter
48:42
because in a vote oh god in a vote split you're assuming you know where the other votes go okay and you don't that's bullshit reasoning it has no evidence in fact i
Corey
48:54
can easily poll on it keep going though
Carter
48:56
though it that put you keep putting polling in as though that it's substitute for voting it's not all
Carter
49:02
people wanted the ndp to win they would move their votes over if they want the ucp to win and you know what's going to happen cory mr smart ass the alberta party is going to have a historically low voter number because people know that this election is primarily between the ucp and the ndp and they are going to choose to support the ndp or the ucp because they have the ability not to split the fucking vote they vote for who they they want to fucking vote for all right
Corey
49:30
right listen okay got a question for you yeah
Corey
49:34
because you clearly thought this out and they're not just rambling uh so i want to i want to unpack this a little more uh when the uh pcs and the wild rose merged was
Corey
49:47
was that like a combination of votes would you say no
Carter
49:51
no it was a combination of political parties they didn't have any votes when they they fucking merged like
Corey
49:57
i don't even understand
Carter
49:57
understand what you're talking about there's no votes
Corey
49:59
votes in a fucking merger i
Corey
50:00
i think you know like no what
Carter
50:02
what they did is they took two parties and they said you know what would
Corey
50:05
would be better off the vote they will be
Carter
50:07
no and then they won an election they i no
Carter
50:11
no they didn't uns well they they they what they did is they changed the win number and they attracted both sides okay
Annalise
50:19
can you can you describe to us what a win we gotta move on
Carter
50:22
on i'm dying we gotta move on this is foundational
Annalise
50:26
so the the lightning round
Annalise
50:30
what's this is the lightning
Annalise
50:34
about the alberta party tweet was do you love or hate that that tweet oh my
Carter
50:40
my god where are we on this whole fucking show right now i
Carter
50:44
i love that tweet that
Carter
50:46
that tweet was my favorite tweet ever next
Corey
50:48
do you love that tweet as much As much as they hashtag Love Alberta? Almost that much. Okay.
Annalise
50:54
One word, no space in between Love Alberta. Next question, lightning round, is what is
Annalise
51:01
is it? Oh, Ottawa, guys. Ottawa is going to create a new position. I don't know if you've heard, but a nightmare. They're going to have a nightmare who's going to develop Ottawa's nightlife economy because
Annalise
51:13
because they want people to think of Ottawa as, you know, a fun, cool, hip place. um nightmare are you guys as we all do yeah are you like other cities have done it it's not new um new york has one amsterdam etc etc in
Annalise
51:30
in or out good idea or bad idea nightmare
Corey
51:34
well if there's ever been a city that needed some desperate attention to its nightlife it probably is ottawa uh not the liveliest place there's uh you know there's pockets but generally speaking um pretty challenged i think i'm generally out i don't really i don't really get it i do understand other cities have done it but you've rattled off for example new york who is the current nightmare of new york does anybody know bob
Annalise
52:00
no i don't know al yeah
Corey
52:02
yeah because i feel like they're not actually that that relevant to so it's a sort of like discourse now to be fair they're i think
Corey
52:09
think by office pretty inwardly focused on like you know you know of the mayor mayor but i don't
Corey
52:15
don't know i mean in general there
Corey
52:18
there are two reasons why you create like a a position that is that is you know like a czar position that everybody can deal with there and everybody can uh it could cut across things is one is because nobody's really responsible for nightlife which is fair i guess and i imagine it cuts across a fair number of things um and i i guess maybe that's why but like what do the powers of a nightmare look like i just i can't really picture who
Carter
52:43
who give him him or her the ability to actually govern i mean this is what my objection is he's
Carter
52:51
he's not he or she isn't the mayor the
Carter
52:53
the mayor's the mayor and
Carter
52:55
and this is this is not like we have you know we don't call the the head of the calgary economic development um the economic development mayor we don't call the you know the person who's running the tourism calgary the tourism mayor mayor you know we have titles for those people why wouldn't you just create a nighttime i mean czar used to be the the language that we used to use when we were creating these kind of interagency uh departments why wouldn't we just create um the you know the uh what do we call them the you know the the executive the commissioner of nightlife you
Carter
53:32
like i just don't understand why you need to call them the mayor it's
Carter
53:35
just we don't we don't have multiple mayors we elect one one mayor, whether they're effective or not, apparently. So one mayor gets elected, they get to stay as the mayor.
Annalise
53:45
So you have a problem with the title. The title should be commissioner. I
Carter
53:50
I think that it's great that Ottawa is trying to, you know, generate something vaguely resembling a nightlife. I think Calgary should follow in its footsteps. You know, we've had a conversation about an entertainment district for so long, one almost would think we had one. but we don't and so we should get one edmonton though should should not uh edmonton should not do that for
Carter
54:15
for i think obvious reasons okay no one
Carter
54:18
one wants to be outside in edmonton it's cold and gross wow
Annalise
54:23
okay we've we've got some edmonton listeners carter so that was not anymore not Not anymore. They're gone now. Next lightning round question. Twitter, guys. Oh, come on. When is it done done? Like, when is it just over?
Corey
54:42
Yeah, I've been thinking. I
Corey
54:43
I honestly don't. Yes, you do. I've been thinking an awful lot about, like, there's this Hemingway quote about, like, how did you go bankrupt in these, like, oh, two ways, gradually and then suddenly. And it sort of feels like Twitter's that right now. We've been talking about it and we've been observing its janky edits to its platform and these very weird things like Twitter Blue and the ever-changing policies that underpin the entire thing since Elon Musk took this thing over in October. just kind of seeing this crud pile up, you know, API access cut off, you name it. It's getting shittier bit by bit. And it does feel like we're probably just one big moment away from the suddenly, right? Where there's just a total flight. And I don't know, maybe this flight will happen over the verified
Corey
55:31
verified Czech rebellion that we've seen over the past couple of days, where for those who who don't know some like some totally surreal stuff's been going on this weekend the the previously verified members of twitter had their blue checks taken away last week us
Corey
55:51
us three and um and then there was like this movement that occurred with a few people called block the blue where it was just like just start blocking the blue check marks, these people who are purchasing it. And it became almost a badge of shame to some people. And then the people who were being targeted by that got mad. And then they started blocking people the other way. And it kind of felt like the whole platform was at war with itself all weekend, lots of weird stuff happening, kind of culminating with Elon Musk as punishment for his critics, giving them blue check marks, and then giving accounts that have a million blue check checkmarks again, like it's total chaos. It does feel like it's alienating.
Corey
56:33
know, we don't need to detour too deep into it. But you know, both sides seem to be confused by the other side's position. I think if you were previously verified, the idea that Twitter Blue is verified is a bit ridiculous. Like I would imagine when we all went through it, like had to get my ID, both sides had to have web links showing that I did the job that I, you know, purportedly did. You know, there was it was all sorts of like when
Annalise
56:56
when did you get it because i didn't have to do any of that oh
Corey
56:58
oh it was when i was became a government official in 2016
Corey
57:03
so like pointed them to the order and council and stuff like this yeah like they reached out to me but like um but
Corey
57:09
but you know there was a rigor okay it sounds like you didn't have the rigor but i was going to say like the idea that a phone number alone is enough to be verified as identity seems a bit weird on the other side people see it as like why why are you why
Corey
57:24
why are you diminishing my check mark now you know like this is bullshit you think you're so special and and it just feels like the platform is just ripe for half of the platform to leave and or its lunatic owner to do something that truly foundationally breaks it like not letting people block people anymore or banning anybody who's blocked too many blue checks or something ridiculous like that so yeah
Corey
57:49
gradually and then suddenly and i i don't know suddenly could be just around the corner it wouldn't take much it feels like at this point just you
Corey
57:55
you know what it would really take though an alternative and i still haven't seen a solid one of those so
Annalise
58:00
so cory do you
Annalise
58:02
now you're liking cbc's move any better no
Corey
58:05
no still don't okay
Annalise
58:07
our bet is still on okay
Corey
58:08
my problem was never that you know i wasn't arguing that twitter is I was arguing that the action CBC took would look political. And that remains the case. And, you know, ultimately, if they're the first out, they'll look a little bit better if the whole thing collapses in the next month. But if it's hanging around six months from now, and everyone's still using it, well,
Corey
58:30
well, then I think that they're in a bit of trouble. then
Annalise
58:32
then our bet keeps
Carter
58:32
keeps going carter for
Carter
58:34
those following along at home that's called a reframe and the reframe was done by cory hogan at this uh particular moment of this particular day
Carter
58:45
yeah to make himself sound a little smarter and uh i'm
Carter
58:49
i'm all here for it i
Corey
58:50
i i am all here hey man run the tape i said the problem is that it was seen as a political action i am
Carter
58:56
i am on you i i'm agreeing cory this is my agreeing face it's the same one as my there's no vote split
Annalise
59:04
is lighting around wait is twitter done done like is it is
Annalise
59:09
is it the end
Carter
59:09
end oh part of me hope so and part of me just ruse the day i mean i am so hopeful that it doesn't go kabuki i i
Carter
59:18
i still like it um despite hating
Carter
59:22
hating it you know like it's it's it's it's one of those things things you
Annalise
59:25
you don't like it no
Carter
59:27
no but you know what it's like like like oh i'm just gonna see what's going on i mean there was something uh well the you sent that note to me about the the terrible avalanche in uh at lake louise you know what did i do i hop onto twitter i quickly check out
Carter
59:42
um you know what's what's happened uh who's involved what what the situation is and you
Annalise
59:52
now i know it was unnecessary because i had information and i sent you a picture and an avalanche report you didn't yeah but you didn't
Carter
59:59
didn't know who you didn't know who who did it you
Carter
1:00:01
you didn't know you didn't know everything you didn't know who died i know who died so look young 21 year old 20 that's
Corey
1:00:09
that's tragic it's not very good very
Carter
1:00:12
very sad anyways my simple point is this twitter uh continues to provide a service like i haven't used when was the last time you you guys use facebook i
Annalise
1:00:21
don't have facebook you
Carter
1:00:23
you know i i don't we don't we have a facebook account i'm
Annalise
1:00:25
i'm not old like you carter it's
Carter
1:00:27
old people that are on on facebook these days yeah i'll tell you something uh facebook didn't used to be old people this is how things die now things don't die by going away i mean we you know twitter may be around forever um but who's using it may fundamentally change i
Carter
1:00:44
have this fantasy you know right now it's a fantasy of using it less i would like to be there less i would like to rely on it less but to truly rely on it less i would need to have an alternative that i could count on at any given moment and
Annalise
1:00:58
and your tiktok feed is not is not doing it for you i'm
Carter
1:01:01
i'm not getting very much information at all off of my tiktok just just
Annalise
1:01:05
just there's traps okay
Annalise
1:01:09
gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1053 of the strategist my name is with you as always stephen carter and cory hogan