Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1046. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.
Carter
0:10
You know what? I really felt like you tried
Annalise
0:11
tried that. You screwed that up. I
Carter
0:13
I felt like you tried,
Carter
0:14
and that was really good.
Annalise
0:15
good. You screwed that
Annalise
0:15
that up. It's okay. You did
Corey
0:17
of blow it. Yeah. His one job is to count you in, and
Corey
0:21
and you didn't do it. I
Corey
0:25
Yeah, so I count you in, and then you count Annalise in. that's it feels
Carter
0:29
feels like we've got a couple extra steps in there but we've learned the hard way from from zane you you can't you can't take these things for granted you know it changes every
Annalise
0:37
every week too you're keeping me on my uh you're keeping me on my toes well
Carter
0:42
well you've done a well and you sounded so excited today you know you were sounding like
Annalise
0:45
like you're really no you really did you
Annalise
0:48
you sounded so good it's like it's
Carter
0:50
it's genuine girl now and you were like i wanna be on the show and
Corey
0:55
and this is dreadful you're a dreadful person I'm excited
Annalise
0:59
it's not a Friday night we're talking my headphones and my mic are working we're
Annalise
1:04
actually recording on Thursday as advertised I'm here I'm not sick yeah it's a Thursday and the next time we're together
Carter
1:08
together you get to meet Corey for the first time it's
Annalise
1:12
that's actually why I'm so excited I'm just going down the days until I get to meet Corey Hogan for
Carter
1:20
listen though guys I have to interject with some bad news what's
Carter
1:25
my brisbane lions lost last night they lost to the western bulldogs and uh low scoring affair tragic i
Corey
1:33
making all these names up nobody believes
Carter
1:35
believes you the western bulldogs at home unexpectedly triumphed over my brisbane lions and uh i'm pretty upset okay
Corey
1:42
okay well that's good so are we then because we were super upset
Annalise
1:47
upset yeah started on a high note and you
Annalise
1:51
sound is upset your
Annalise
1:52
your emotional range is not
Carter
1:54
not you have no emotional range at all i'm
Corey
2:01
accusation good good open yeah what's up what's going on in the world gang because it feels
Corey
2:07
feels like a few things not
Carter
2:08
much cory carter do
Carter
2:10
do either of you get indicted today uh
Corey
2:13
mean that's a little personal but no no
Carter
2:17
no uh but donald trump did so we have ourselves a victory that's pretty exciting this could bring the end of the united states as we know it i'm pretty excited about the whole thing yeah
Corey
2:26
yeah it's wonderful it's great to see how even before anybody knew what was in the indictment republicans
Corey
2:32
lined up to say this was a bad indictment absolutely this
Corey
2:35
this is the party of law and order right i
Carter
2:38
like it i'm really excited about the whole situation because i'm sure you know the republicans they're probably not going going to overreact right like it they wouldn't like
Carter
2:46
like that wouldn't happen you
Corey
2:48
ken star report came out 25 years ago this year 1998 came out you
Corey
2:55
little piece of paper
Carter
2:56
paper and at least ken star was investigating um monica lewinsky or the the clintons really yeah
Corey
3:03
yeah i honestly don't even know if you're like doing a thing because i feel like like a lot of people won't remember that in this day and age but the ken star report came out yeah
Corey
3:13
and republicans talked about how disgraceful this was the way the president lied about sex and then how he perjured himself and that these were not small crimes because this was an office that required integrity and he needed to be held to account and i
Corey
3:27
mean boy life comes at you quick yeah 25
Carter
3:29
25 years later yeah
Corey
3:31
yeah and now 25 years later who cares it was just hush money to a prostitute not prostitute sorry porn
Corey
3:38
come on i'm sorry uh and it was uh you know it was just election laws who cares this is petty things to throw at him how how embarrassing for the republic democracy as it is at an end according to republicans because donald trump is being charged with crimes that well crimes don't seem like big crimes to them this seems to be the line everybody's going with no
Carter
3:58
no i like it i mean you know what is a big crime i mean that whole uh As you pointed out to our good friend, Paul Ferry, you know, Al Capone went down for tax evasion, you know, I'm
Carter
4:10
I'm sure the Republicans would have been opposed to that too.
Annalise
4:16
yeah, you're just like foreshadowing the things that I want to talk about. Oh,
Carter
4:23
over there. We had to record our last
Annalise
4:25
last episode, just the Corey and I.
Annalise
4:28
Yeah, I wasn't here last time. So now you don't even need a host. you feeling
Carter
4:32
were you just kind of faking just
Annalise
4:35
just didn't want to hang out with you that's
Corey
4:39
actually was not i
Annalise
4:41
was not yeah i
Annalise
4:44
i was not faking the truth is that i was not faking i was actually i
Carter
4:50
didn't want to hang out with you that's why wow
Carter
4:54
expected no No, I
Annalise
4:55
I was not making, I was quite sick. I was worried about the live show coming up. I really want to meet Corey in person and I was worried that might not happen, but I seem to be better now. So someday it's going to happen. Are tickets sold out yet?
Corey
5:16
I mean, it sounds like, yeah, no, the answer is just no. We
Carter
5:19
We made an error and
Annalise
5:21
we, we made an error, Carter.
Carter
5:24
We collectively. I mean, one of the three of us did. And they kind of came off sale for a while. But things have really picked up since that flop of a CBC show yesterday.
Carter
5:33
So I'd like to thank the CBC for doing a shitty show and driving people to us to buy tickets. So thanks very much, CBC. You guys are great. I mean, that's really
Corey
5:43
really hurtful to the CBC. But ticket sales did go up yesterday. So there's
Corey
5:50
a couple of interpretations. one is it was so bad people were wanting and they needed to go get their fix somewhere else yeah
Corey
5:57
the other is it was so good people wanted more and they came came to us right to get that more that
Carter
6:03
that doesn't feel logical well i'll tell
Corey
6:06
tell you in the second case you will be disappointed if you think you're gonna get more yeah you're
Corey
6:11
you're not gonna get more nenshi
Carter
6:12
nenshi was one of them right
Corey
6:14
yesterday yeah not for
Carter
6:17
is he gonna come to our show again do you think
Corey
6:24
are we going with this let's
Annalise
6:25
let's move into our first segment we're moving into our first segment it's
Annalise
6:29
it's about trump oh
Annalise
6:32
surprise what happened with trump this
Annalise
6:37
was indicted uh you guys are smart you're strategists question
Annalise
6:42
question everyone's everyone's wondering what now cory how does this play out in the coming days and weeks years
Corey
6:49
well it's uh 8 45 mountain time and at this point what we know well when we started recording we did not know the actual indictments but what is believed is that they are about the stormy daniels payoffs from just before the 2016 election which is what we were alluding to there uh
Corey
7:08
uh republicans have immediately jumped on this and said this is nonsense this is just political Nicole, Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, has said he would not extradite Trump
Corey
7:20
Trump to New York, which is not really something he's allowed to do. There's this little obnoxious document called the United States Constitution, which
Carter
7:28
which says... Is that an important document in the United States, Corey? I
Corey
7:30
I mean, not really anymore, it feels like,
Corey
7:32
but at least in theory. It said he would not extradite him. So, you know, Article 4, Section 2, be damned. He's just going to sit there and not do his job as a governor of a state. and
Corey
7:42
and um really i think we've got a situation that's a bit of a powder keg in that it wouldn't take an awful lot of things to go wrong to generate a true constitutional crisis in the united states and of course everyone's at 11 lots of reporting that truth social donald trump's social media network has people talking about this is war this is the end certainly you're seeing feedback and conversation like that on twitter and telegram apparently is is rife with this as well it's not gonna take much for people to do something stupid and dangerous and very concerning so i'll preamble to say
Carter
8:17
interrupt for a second and say that tiktok did not seem to have that on my feed i was seeing completely
Carter
8:22
completely different yeah the
Corey
8:24
the swifties are not big the
Carter
8:25
the swifties were fine they were all relaxed yeah
Corey
8:28
yeah that's good sorry why would they not be with the tour and all of of that right yeah sorry
Carter
8:34
to interrupt that so
Corey
8:35
so we have this situation we have everybody um dialing up rhetoric even republicans who have previously spoken against donald trump seem to be lining up to say this is an abuse of power by a democrat uh desantis in his comments talked literally twice in the same statement he talked about the soros-backed manhattan da like soros-backed manhattan twice and talked about it being a political agenda twice so everyone's on their talking points but this is really dangerous rhetoric and so what comes next i think is um remains to be seen but we do have reporting that as early as tuesday donald trump is planning to according to his lawyers which doesn't mean a ton because donald trump could change his mind any time between now and then but according to his lawyers is going to go um to essentially essentially turned himself in uh by tuesday at the earliest originally the da's office apparently wanted tomorrow but the secret service apparently would not be able to make the security arrangements and make that work but i mean we got no shortage of made for tv moments coming up new york city is famous for the perp walk right walking people by in handcuffs as they are being arraigned can't wait to see a president of the united states uh do a perp walk and um obviously you've got high drama nypd is on alert they've all been called into work and you know who knows what happens next but in some ways it is so politically charged that um i i honestly don't know i don't know what happens next well
Annalise
10:09
thankfully i'm here yeah thankfully i'm here to tell you what's gonna happen what is tiktok telling you this isn't the tiktok thing
Carter
10:15
thing this is coming from my own brain uh but here's what i would do which
Corey
10:18
which has been warped if
Carter
10:20
an advisor to president biden
Carter
10:22
biden Which, you know, as you know, I turned down that position. What
Carter
10:25
What I would say is
Carter
10:27
that I think he should give
Carter
10:32
give clemency to Donald Trump. I think that he should take these charges away. way i think that the risk to uh the republic is too high and it's well precedented for a president to um you
Carter
10:48
you know uh it's not clemency cory there's another word that this is yeah
Corey
10:52
yeah it's a pardon and he can't
Carter
10:55
sure he can't do it sure he can sure
Carter
10:57
sure sure he can uh
Carter
10:59
uh you're right he can't but nonetheless i mean if he if he could he should um yeah
Carter
11:04
yeah it's a state charge isn't it he doesn't up the ability yeah
Carter
11:07
man that's really upsetting because now we're fucked the
Carter
11:11
the whole thing your strategy we're gonna have
Annalise
11:14
have a war but play through play through what you were gonna say there yeah
Annalise
11:20
let's let's hear the end
Carter
11:21
end i actually just think this is dangerous i think that the the problem with this situation is that um we've been in a dangerous situation for years with with trump and and his supporters. They feel that they have been attacked. They feel like they are protecting the republic. They feel like, you know, the George Soros language that's being used by DeSantis is being chosen purposefully. You know, I mean, it's partly anti-Semitic. It's partly, you know, a gripe about what's fair and what's not fair. You know, people who are being screwed over in their minds have access to a tremendous number of weapons have access you know they are angry they have been angry for years we are on the verge i mean cory and i have seen this and talked about this for quite some time that this is a powder keg and yeah you know it's kind of fun we think that trump's pretty corrupt we think that it's probably a good thing that he gets arrested um he's going to get arrested and he's going to most likely uh go to jail and i'm not sure that his people would allow such a thing to actually happen i'm not sure that i mean if it was any other state except new york i'm not sure that he actually gets to the courthouse before something really really bad happens um with his supporters i think that we could see something really violent and that scares the bejesus out of me so
Corey
12:51
so here's the thing i actually like as of when we recorded i don't actually know it's a state charge i think there was some commentary it might be but because the indictment's not there yet we don't know we don't know what it's being brought under what law there
Corey
13:03
there is still a governor though and the governor could also pardon donald trump if biden can't pardon trump so look i i actually think there's a lot of logic to saying
Corey
13:13
you know what we don't need this as a nation this man um is like is facing some very serious charges or potentially going to face some serious charges around election laws laws around documents we you know what this is here i we understand that uh this is um this is potentially also a violation of the law but it's just you
Corey
13:37
know we the nation doesn't need this right now the state doesn't
Annalise
13:39
doesn't need are you just pushing the problem further down the road maybe
Corey
13:43
maybe but i think that there's something to be said for um you
Corey
13:48
you know picking the ground on which you can fight strongest. And I think this might be weaker ground for them. And
Carter
13:54
And I think that it's important to keep in mind that as more charges come, the public may change the way that they're viewing Donald Trump. Right now, he may be seen as someone who's being persecuted. Whereas when more charges come out of Georgia, or more charges come out of, where else is he facing charges federal charges and and and the like his popularity will likely fall and that that has been proven by other democracies that have faced you know their former chief executives being charged they the number of people who are going to stand with them and stand for them drops precipitously as more charges are brought so that gives a there's a a chance that this can be resolved i think more peacefully as more charges are are broadened and people weaken
Carter
14:49
weaken their resolve but right now that that's a future state the present state is that things are powder keg and for this particular charge um you know perhaps uh you know perhaps perhaps bringing these charges is not in the best interest of our society
Corey
15:09
yeah i mean it's really hard to say and there's
Corey
15:13
there's also an argument to be made that you don't interfere in justice if you're being accused of interfering in justice now look the pardon power is not interfering in justice it's part of the united states system yeah
Carter
15:23
yeah i mean it's
Corey
15:24
a power that governors and presidents have unlike canadian premiers i just uh throw out like a random random counterpoint
Carter
15:30
counterpoint don't have this power weird
Corey
15:33
weird right yeah wow
Carter
15:35
mean almost like we're not a u.s state it is hard to imagine
Corey
15:40
there is there is an argument to be made that you just fight on firmer ground you don't fight on the ground of again we haven't seen the charges yet we don't know the nature of them but if it is as described um
Corey
15:53
um there was a payment that was was, you know, books were cooked effectively to cover a payment to a porn star. And it was funneled through Donald Trump's lawyer, Cohen, who's not exactly the most reputable guy in the world. And that it became a felony instead of a misdemeanor, because it
Corey
16:11
it was also involved in election law.
Corey
16:15
That's going to be tough for a lot of people. That's going to be tough for a lot of people to swallow, because it's not even a natural felony. It's a felony if you layer things on. So So you're kind of building on some shaky ground there. And look, I'm not a lawyer. There's been a lot of lawyer commentary around there that suggested maybe this isn't the strongest case. I don't know. I suspect it's going to be not too bad if they decided to bring it forward in the first place. But I think there's the political conversation and the political question about whether you just say, not on this one. and maybe signal you know i'm i'm pardoning him here because he
Corey
16:52
he needs to answer for his real crimes you know not not as incidental crimes like this would be losing the forest for the trees
Annalise
17:00
carter is that your dog yeah
Carter
17:02
yeah my dog's got the squeaky toy love this great
Carter
17:05
uh i can close the door but uh the static electricity would cause my microphone to break we've done that a few times and so I just we're going to listen to the dog squeaking the squeaky love it thanks Ryder
Annalise
17:18
Ryder's pumped about that toy you know
Corey
17:20
know you have a mute button feel
Carter
17:22
was going to make a point I
Annalise
17:24
going to say something it looks like Ryder interrupted your train of thought there Carter what was that brilliant point you were about to make there
Carter
17:31
there is precedent for this the only other
Carter
17:34
other time the only
Carter
17:36
only other time that a former president has faced charges um gerald
Carter
17:42
gerald ford pardoned richard nixon and was it was it popular no did it did it potentially cost uh for the election yeah may have but i suspect it didn't cost him the election i suspect that it was the right thing to do for the country um but
Carter
17:59
but it was only one charge it you know it was only one incident and i think that forgiving
Carter
18:03
forgiving it's it's relatively easy to forgive trump of one sin it will become harder to forgive him uh for the multitude of sins that he's probably going to face charges for okay
Carter
18:15
we and heather came up and took and closed the door so things
Carter
18:18
things are looking way better at that right now
Carter
18:21
so heather's the hero if you're wondering let's
Annalise
18:23
let's leave that there thank you heather moving on to our next segment uh let's talk about smith's phone call cory
Annalise
18:35
cory just just keeps giving teasers of what i want to talk about okay
Annalise
18:40
uh it's the talk of alberta it's been dominating national news i even saw it on tiktok carter was it on your tiktok it
Carter
18:48
was not uh the swifties don't seem to be too in touch with uh with daniel smith okay
Annalise
18:54
uh so cbc and the opposition ndp obtained an 11 minute phone call between uh i don't know what we want to call him controversial street pastor arthur palowski who is facing criminal charges and premier daniel smith uh the call took place in january it's an interesting listen the
Annalise
19:12
the premier is sympathetic she tells palowski she's been asking about his charges almost weekly she
Annalise
19:18
she says a whole bunch of other things lots um lots to dig in here first
Annalise
19:22
first my big pressing question carter you've been in these offices, how in the world did
Annalise
19:29
did Smith, who was what, like three months into being premier, how did she have time for a 10 minute phone call with him?
Carter
19:37
Well, it's ridiculous to me. I mean, and it's not like Smith's a Polowski fan, near as I can tell. I mean, the public information about, so around 2015 or so, Rick McIver got in trouble for spending some time with Arthur Polowski, because of course, this guy's a hate preacher. I mean, we can call him a preacher, we can call him whatever we want, but he's a hateful man. He has groups of people that he hates, and he preaches that hateful rhetoric under the auspices of being a Christian preacher. And he's a Christian, but it's just kind of a perverted form of Christianity, from my point of view, at least. But his Daniel Smith, when when Rick McIver did this, said that it's totally unbecoming of a minister to spend time with the likes of Artur Pulowski. Now that she's the premier, she somehow has found the time. Let me be very clear. Having been in a premier's office, premiers don't generally make telephone calls to Gen Pop. up um they're exceptionally busy and they're not calling people who have random uh concerns with the government nor are they calling people who face criminal charges uh generally speaking we staff that work out um you
Corey
20:56
you you staffed out your interference in justice yeah
Carter
20:59
yeah if we were trying if we were trying to obstruct justice we would staff that out and i'm absolutely perplexed as As to how Danielle Smith, who, like I say, doesn't appear to have any real relationship with this person, doesn't have any real affinity for this person, suddenly has the time to take an 11 minute phone call. And let's be clear, too, this wasn't really a leaked document so much as it was a found phone call, because Arter, who obviously loves and respects this premier enough to immediately post the fucking conversation to YouTube. it
Carter
21:38
was already up there none of us found it because none of us were looking uh for that type of a conversation on on youtube imagine i mean it's utterly ridiculous to me um that he would you
Carter
21:51
you know do this uh to her if he's an ally um he in fact screwed her over massively just by posting that uh particular conversation and uh you
Carter
22:04
you know that's why in no small part you don't see premiers taking this telephone taking this type of telephone call it's just way way too dangerous what
Annalise
22:14
about the facts to carter and we get as i say lots to pick at here but the 10 minute phone call and then she seemingly didn't have any staff with her on
Annalise
22:24
on the line like how how how rare is that i
Carter
22:29
mean it doesn't happen um it
Carter
22:33
just doesn't happen there is no meeting that a premier has or even a minister has um with a constituent that shouldn't that doesn't have staff there in part because if a minister said something like what danielle smith said you know leave it with me or i'll look into it um staff would follow up right staff has to do that work so the premier doesn't want to be committing to work and then having to delegate that work later. You put staff on the phone to take the actual work and do the actual thing that needs to be done.
Carter
23:03
That's why you put the staff on. And the other reason to put staff on is if the premier is going somewhere that is particularly dangerous, that you do not wish for that premier to be going, then the staffer is responsible for stopping the conversation and ensuring it doesn't go in a dangerous direction. direction uh and i think that we can see that this particular telephone call uh from the outset was going into a tremendously dangerous position so if there was staff on it they should have stopped it if there wasn't staff on it then danielle smith shouldn't have taken it who
Annalise
23:36
who who else do you think she's talking to like it's as you say super rare to be having a 10-minute conversation no staff on it is this a one-off or is this how she operates um
Carter
23:48
um cory did you did you get any calls
Corey
23:52
didn't get any calls no not none that i took it at least no i think
Corey
23:56
think it's it's it is okay there's things we just don't know we don't know about the cadence of it actually do we know what time of day it was because if it was like nine at night i think it's not impossible that she just randomly made a phone call as crazy as that is that's
Carter
24:11
i mean still well
Corey
24:13
i'm not saying i'm not saying it's protocol but
Corey
24:16
look you asked does the premier ever talk to people other than with staff around and if it's supposed to be business no right steven's right there's a third reason in addition to the two steven mentioned why you always make sure staff's there you want to have somebody else corroborating your side of the story if it becomes controversial in any way shape or form or if a he said she said comes
Corey
24:36
no no that's not what happened i was there too right all very weird the idea that she would take this call um is wild to me on a lot of levels There's the one Stephen talked about, where were the staff? Why would the premier take this? The premier schedule is very busy. But obviously, I mean, we don't want to brush over the fact that this is somebody who is actively being charged and facing the justice system right
Corey
25:02
right now. That's pretty wild that a premier would talk to them. But above and beyond all of that, it's like, who
Corey
25:11
who has the time? Who has the time? And Stephen sort of talked about that at the start. this is not the kind of call that a premier would normally make like here's the two types of calls the premier makes premier calls to a stakeholder to try to keep them on side that's a pretty good call to make right premier calls somebody to tell them good news premier calls somebody who's not a stakeholder presumably to tell them bad news that
Corey
25:35
that does not happen right it's not just that you'd staff out the shady work it's that you staff out the bad news you don't make the premier the mouthpiece for bad news i cannot for the life of me understand why this phone call occurred it is either absolute malpractice in the context of running an office or or it should kind of alarm us because it speaks to the fact that danielle smith felt she she needed to talk to arthur palowski either because this is somebody who she felt had a natural affinity to her base or or in some way shape or form you know was of assistance to her and so i like i we obviously don't know any of that and i don't want to get into reckless speculation but it's crazy to me that this phone call would occur well
Carter
26:17
well and keep in mind this is a guy who was the is who up until yesterday was the leader of a rival political party at
Corey
26:25
at the time this call happened he was the rival of a or leader of
Carter
26:29
how how how do you make a telephone call to the leader of the rival political party again without staff right
Carter
26:38
right like this guy yeah actually
Carter
26:39
wants you to not do well in the next election and you're going to take a telephone call with him i mean
Carter
26:46
mean it's it's it's beyond ludicrous is
Annalise
26:50
then like should she have expected that this call would be leaked
Annalise
26:55
like based on what you're saying there it
Annalise
26:59
it almost makes one wonder how how how would you not think Oh, this call is going to be recorded and everyone's going to listen to it. You
Corey
27:06
You have to act as though these things are, right? Just as a general rule. You don't, you know, there's this old adage about don't put an email what you don't want on the front page of the Calgary Herald. If you're the premier, you just don't say something you don't want on the front page of the Calgary Herald. And the idea that you would talk to somebody who's not in your inner circle in a way, like saying things like, it's unfortunate. I didn't know I couldn't pardon people. Like that's, that's pretty, pretty wild. i applied for it okay it reminds me of a story in all fairness of a time where there was a liberal mla who got elected this was decades ago this was many many years ago right yeah
Corey
27:43
and at the first this is an alberta liberal mla mla mla
Corey
27:49
mla yeah we're all clear on mla listening
Carter
27:51
listening we're hearing what you're saying
Corey
27:53
very first cabinet meeting turns
Corey
27:55
turns to the leader of the party says
Corey
27:57
says to them uh
Corey
27:59
when do do we go to ottawa that
Corey
28:05
that did happen it was a serious serious
Corey
28:08
serious misunderstanding of what the role of a mla is but this is kind of up there with that like if you think that the premier has that kind of authority in
Annalise
28:17
in this case and i you're not naming the mla so maybe details about
Annalise
28:22
about their background but come to the live
Carter
28:24
live show he'll tell you
Annalise
28:28
premier she's been a commentator she's been a school board trustee she's been a lobbyist she was leader of the wild rose party the official opposition and
Annalise
28:37
and she's saying you know surprise i didn't know alberta's justice system is not like the american justice system like how wild is that
Carter
28:48
i mean it's it's on many levels uh disqualifying and you know you she wants
Carter
28:55
wants to be the premier she wants to be in charge well she is the premier she's
Carter
29:01
she's going to be seeking re-election to be the premier again and she doesn't know the basic rules like it's it's insanity to me i mean i we've been through this before i quite like danielle as a human being but she's just not qualified to have this type of role and to be in this type of position and and she continues to show why i mean everybody no one's really 100 qualified to take these roles these are insane roles they are very
Carter
29:31
very very challenging and and hard to keep straight and hard to to do all the things you need to do but that
Carter
29:38
that is why you need advisors and danielle smith is uniquely bad at surrounding herself with people who are going to keep her uh who are going to inform her and keep her from doing things that are ridiculously stupid carter
Annalise
29:51
carter are you saying you don't like the statements rob anderson was putting out yesterday oh my god rob anderson
Carter
29:57
who was he helping by the way was he just helping himself like this
Carter
30:01
this is is he the de facto premier like like
Carter
30:04
like why is he even putting out a fucking statement cory
Annalise
30:08
cory let's let's talk a little bit about uh he wasn't even in the story yeah yeah Yeah, I mean, it's just ridiculous. Let's talk a little bit about that strategy, though. Like, so before the story had even dropped,
Annalise
30:18
Smith puts out a statement yesterday saying like, hey, heads up, everyone, CBC has another story coming
Annalise
30:26
because they're continuing their, quote, campaign of defamatory attacks against me. Like, hey, everyone, listen up, story's coming.
Annalise
30:34
Then she does the correction to that statement because there was a wrong detail in it. And then another, after the story comes out, another statement comes from her office saying like hey nothing new here uh just forget it nothing new what what do you make like as strategist kind of thinking through those decisions that are being made on her team of this strategy to put out like the preemptive statement and then another one so
Corey
31:01
so um the preemptive statement is not inherently a bad strategy like if you know it's coming sometimes you get your own dirty laundry out right that's That's how you can help frame the issue as best as you can. I will say, if you find yourself in a situation where you need to apply that tactic, you're having a bad day. And so really, in terms of communications tactics, you've got to judge it by that, though. I mean, I'm being serious. It's like, you're not trying to maximize upside, you're trying to minimize downside at that particular moment. Did she minimize downside with that statement? No. So there were a couple of bad things that she did in that particular statement. You know, then there's a couple of small things like getting the dates wrong. But one is, she seemed to be responding to the charges she feared would be coming, rather than the charges that were actually made in the CBC article backed up by audio there. So she seemed to think it was going to be kind
Corey
31:56
kind of a continuation of the story of her interference in justice, perhaps from like an emailing point of view. Like, that's what the response read as, right? And there wasn't anything like that. You know, there was nothing about her potentially emailing Crown prosecutors or additional evidence of that. Instead, it was her own words that were being reported with video backing it up. So it does, and I said this on Twitter, it kind of reminds me of this time I was pulled over by a police officer in Calgary. And he said to me, do you know why I pulled you over? And I replied with, because I didn't signal my turn. And he said, no, because your registration has expired, but here's your second ticket for not signaling
Corey
32:36
your turn now. The challenge with volunteering what you think you're going down for before you're accused of it is you might volunteer the wrong thing. So that was a mistake. she should have been much narrower in her accusation or in her pre-rebuttal and it should have been specifically to the facts of whatever CBC's inquiry was they tried to read CBC's mind in the inquiry and that is a big mistake you don't try to do that you have to narrow the scope when you're trying to frame things out like that the second problem they had is that they then um they just started colliding statements on top of it and being utterly defiant and not changing approach When this happened, right? You've got to be nimble enough to react to the facts as they are. And nobody really was. I mean, the way Rob Anderson was going on, again,
Corey
33:21
again, I will say he seemed to be defending against charges people were not actually making. And he kind of looked foolish online, fighting with reporters where he was saying things like, what an outrageous thing to suggest the premier said. And then Carrie Tate, I think in this case is literally verbatim quote from the premier. There's
Corey
33:41
audio, you know, I don't know what they were doing. Can I tell you what I actually feel happened here?
Corey
33:47
sure either they shut down their ability to process because they were so panicked they were not actually processing the things that they were reading which should tell us a lot about their state of mind and how stressed and how how off the tracks they are here or they just it was active information avoidance like did they actually watch the clip did they actually read the thing cbc sent or did they just immediately say we know what they're going to say and go in and i know that that sounds crazy, but in some ways it's the clearest way to explain how they acted yesterday. How
Annalise
34:17
How does the fact that like, that there's actually a tape, you know, and we we've seen, we've had this conversation before with CBC exclusive and Smith saying it's not true in
Annalise
34:27
in this case, like they're here is, I mean, CBC had the phone call. NDP had the video. You
Annalise
34:33
You can watch, you can listen for 11 minutes to what happened. Like, how does that, uh, how, how does that change kind of the the behind the scenes strategy this time around um
Corey
34:44
um did they know like they didn't know i don't think i don't
Carter
34:48
don't think they knew in the first hit right i don't think that they knew when
Carter
34:51
when uh they put out their first statement cory's kind of timeline of how the the lunacy unfolded yesterday um they obviously didn't understand what they were up against because you know as someone who you know i knew a guy one time who was the principal target in a sprawl story and
Corey
35:13
8,000 words nominated for
Corey
35:14
for some sort that's
Annalise
35:15
that's been nominated for an award Carter that
Annalise
35:18
could be an award winning 8,000 word feature
Corey
35:22
that could be an award winning hit piece anyways
Carter
35:25
anyways I don't follow it very closely but know that at the time what happened was I advised that young fellow, handsome I'm told to get ahead of it young
Annalise
35:37
young and handsome to
Carter
35:38
to get ahead of it and that meant to essentially
Carter
35:41
essentially tell your own story and to tell the story as fully and completely as possible on your own terms to
Annalise
35:49
to control the narrative I don't want to put words in that person's mouth well
Carter
35:55
well I mean it controls this is all theory at this stage but it controls the outcome of the story it sets the track that it's going to go down the problem that the the premier's office had is they didn't set the track. They preempted their own story with an explanation that turned out to not be required, because they were explaining something that didn't happen. And then they still had to go back and explain the thing that did happen. So now they're kind of explaining two problems, the one that they thought that, you know, that was going going to occur and this other one that was really occurring and both of them were um devastating because especially because the premier's own words were the thing that was sinking her right that and and don you know don braid wrote a beautiful column about
Carter
36:46
about how um you
Carter
36:49
you know what we were talking about earlier how does the premier put herself in such a bad position i mean so you you we talked Corey and I talked about process versus issues or issue or, you know, ideas in our last Corey and Hogan, you know, Carter and Hogan, Corey and Hogan. That's so funny. He wishes great.
Carter
37:13
But, you know, this is an excellent example of it. I mean, they were screwed on the process and they were screwed on the issue. They were they were absolutely adrift on the issue. and Corey's explanation of them actively avoiding clarifying
Carter
37:29
clarifying or even understanding what they were fighting against is really the only one, or
Carter
37:34
or they're completely blinded
Carter
37:36
blinded by their own belief systems. I
Corey
37:39
I mean, I want to stress how common this is, though, right? When people get a reporter accusation and there's some truth to it, they read between the lines, they jump to conclusions, they start reacting to things that are not on the page in front of them. And I can't tell you how many times when I was a communications consultant, I would have to tell my clients, slow down, answer the questions asked, not the questions you think they're going to ask, and narrow. I mean, it happened all the time. It'd be like, they ask question A, and it'd be like, well, A's obviously leading to Z, so I'm going to tell them Z, and I'm
Carter
38:13
I'm going to defend
Corey
38:13
defend myself on Z. No, you're going to answer A. If they have to come back, if they're getting to Z, they're going to ask you about it before then. They're not going to report before that. But it happens. And I think this is an example of a Premier's office that jumped dramatically to conclusions. And that's not, I mean, you expect a certain level of professionalism in a Premier's office communication staff, and they should have been able to stop that. That was a panicky preemption. And Carter's right. Like, this was not preempting on a track. This was not getting ahead of the train. This was running a train on a different track that ended in one of those, like, cartoon painted, you know, canyons that they just crash into. So I don't know what they were thinking there. Well,
Annalise
38:52
Well, and did it not also, and I think the NDP video obviously helped, but what we saw with some of the previous CBC reporting is just CBC had it. In this case, every outlet had
Annalise
39:03
had this story. And did her statement not kind of help fuel an in for other reporters to also do this story?
Corey
39:15
Well, I think they
Corey
39:15
done it anyways. But yeah, I mean, it certainly gave a hook that
Corey
39:19
that they could jump onto. to do
Annalise
39:22
do you think people care like we care and i think that people listening to this episode care but there's a writ drop in what a month like do will this will this swing votes will this change things do people care i
Corey
39:35
i think there is a question about danielle smith's judgment that we see every now and polling like if there has been a recent whoopsie her polling numbers go down the ndp start to take more of a lead we're
Corey
39:49
we're getting very close to an election people are paying more attention at this point this is not the kind of thing that you want to have if you're the premier i'm sure the ndp before this all came out was planning to hold this for another month and have it actually come closer to rich drop or during the red because that would do maximum damage here but i do think this is there's a risk of really setting uh who daniel smith is in voters minds in a way at this point like it's getting really close and there's getting to be so many of them and let's be really clear we've kind of jumped over the content of this but there's about five really damning things in this that uh to carter's point in different contexts in different provinces different jurisdictions might be considered disqualifying uh but she's got a few things going for her here one is it's a month to election we got to talk about the fact that everybody in the UCP has either been silent or given defense to this, not necessarily what you would expect outside of an election period, right?
Corey
40:48
Two is she admitted to not knowing what the authorities of a premier of Alberta are multiple times in that conversation. Like, thought I could do it. Not a lawyer. Oops, right? My bad. Three, she talked about being a fan of Arthur Palowski, who we've already gone over is a pretty reprehensible guy right four
Corey
41:09
four is interfering with the administration of justice allegedly because she did say again in her words this is what carrie tate and rob anderson were fighting about contacting prosecutors weekly now was this quote-unquote imprecise language did she mean the deputy minister is
Corey
41:25
is that better i mean i guess it is but is it okay i'm not so sure it is yeah right you know these are this is so this is four very serious things any which of which could potentially be disqualifying and you know we've still got to talk about the fact five that she absolutely supplicated herself to the anti-vax movement which again is is
Corey
41:47
is not great right and if you look at polling even here in alberta that's not necessarily a winning position and again calls into judgment so you
Corey
41:56
you know that's a quick list of five i'll bet you you could stretch it to seven or eight without too much effort there this was a a wild tape you don't see tapes like this very often in politics and uh usually when you see something that even has half of what's in this one it's
Corey
42:10
it's the end of their career well
Carter
42:12
well and to that point cory this i think would have been the end of her career if they weren't facing an election in uh in two months um there
Carter
42:23
there would be voices that would take her out for this type of incompetence but they know the party
Annalise
42:28
do you mean they
Carter
42:28
they yeah they and they know they absolutely cannot take her out um you know there's always an iceberg effect on every story right we're not seeing the full story we are only seeing now a little bit below the where the water surface was a week ago um there's still more underneath that water surface and the people in her government know what's underneath the water surface. They're just not pushing it out because they want to get elected too. And their view right now, there is no way that they can get elected if they continue to push this, this premier under, I mean, they
Carter
43:07
they can't do it. They have to ride or die with her and they're going to ride or die with her. That's just the way it's going to go.
Annalise
43:15
let's role play a little bit here, you know, practice before Sunday's, uh, Sunday's live live show so who who's
Corey
43:21
tickets still available the strategist live.com yeah
Annalise
43:25
yeah who's uh carter are you doing ndp yeah
Carter
43:28
yeah thanks for paying attention um we've gone over it twice yeah i'm doing you're
Annalise
43:32
you're doing ndp i'm just i'm just clarifying okay you're doing ndp uh
Annalise
43:36
uh cory's doing ucp so cory let's say you're running ucp strategy here um tomorrow is friday smith she's got a scheduled talk with the alberta municipalities media will be there uh what's what's your strategy what do you advise her to do well
Corey
43:56
well uh i don't want to spoil too much of my overall strategy so maybe i'll try to narrow the scope a little bit here first of all you've got a couple of things that really worked out in your favor if you're danielle smith right number one donald trump was indicted today right that was was a pretty lucky break, if you happen to be Danielle Smith, because already people are jumping over to the next thing. Number two, perhaps counterintuitively, there's the fracas about your candidate in Lethbridge West, right? So you've already got attention a little bit divided here. Doesn't mean the press corps is going to be particularly swayed by that, and this media availability does mean you're going to have questions about this. Your answer is going to be simple. Your answer is, this
Corey
44:38
this tape actually shows that I understand that i can't interfere in the administration of justice anything you say other than that is ridiculous smears and and albertans just are not interested in that i'm focused on fixing the mess that the ndp has left behind i'm here talking to these municipalities about what we can do to support them how we have supported them after four years of ndp mismanagement and the voters will decide whether they're going to put up with smears from the media like this or not
Annalise
45:06
Okay, so it sounds like Corey's going with a real blame the NDP strategy. Carter, a little sneak peek of maybe what we can expect on Sunday. Carter, you're doing NDP strategy. You've already had a press conference. You've aired the whole video.
Annalise
45:21
That was yesterday. Today, you called for a 30-day investigation.
Annalise
45:25
What's your next move? What's your Friday move here?
Carter
45:28
Well, I think my Friday move has to be we are now seeing a candidate step down when um she you know misspoke and and said that the the truth out loud uh why is it that the candidate in lethbridge west needs to step down for saying the truth you know what what they believe to be the the true part out loud um but this premier continues to to try and serve as as the premier she said everything that we need to hear she said that she doesn't understand the way that government operates. She said that she doesn't, that she was trying to interfere in justice for this street preacher. She said the quiet part out loud. And as a result, she's just not, she's not fit to serve. We know that. The UCP caucus knows that. And I think the people of Alberta know that. And that's, you
Carter
46:19
you know, basically the way I would go after her is that it's not just the one thing it's it's
Carter
46:24
it's the whole thing cumulatively she's
Carter
46:26
she's not able to serve so
Corey
46:28
so i'll tell you this if i'm the ucp if i'm daniel smith i'm
Corey
46:32
i'm happy steven took that particular approach he's he's kind of blurring it he's letting me off the hook a bit he's talking now about lethbridge west i'll talk about lethbridge west yeah you know what i saw a situation and i resolved it right do you want to talk about lethbridge west let's use a few questions on that and not this uh this this tape that we were just discussing for the last bit here, which is very damning for me. I
Carter
46:54
I think all of it's damning.
Corey
46:57
I'd love to talk about Lethbridge West.
Annalise
47:02
There's no audience here to vote or react, but Carter, weird move bringing in Lethbridge West. That
Carter
47:08
was a little weird. It
Annalise
47:10
It was actually my next segment. Oh, that's why I brought it in.
Annalise
47:14
I brought it in because I assumed it
Carter
47:16
it was going to be our
Annalise
47:17
our next segment. But do you not, like, why are you as the NDP comparing what the premier has done to, like, Lethbridge West? Because
Carter
47:25
Because this is a feint, okay?
Carter
47:27
okay? Because we're going to go in on Sunday night, and there's going to be, there's reputation at stake. And
Carter
47:35
And I don't want to give Corey Hogan even a fucking sniff of what I'm going to do. Oh, okay.
Carter
47:42
It is going to be carnage
Carter
47:44
carnage for that young man. and he
Carter
47:47
he is gonna cry on stage i
Corey
47:52
i'm on stage with you right in this scenario yes
Carter
47:55
yes you will be on stage with me and i will be upstaging you at every opportunity that
Annalise
48:01
that was that was clever strategy there carter to uh to fake him i mean
Corey
48:06
mean it was not a strategy at all it was it was absolutely him just trying to clean up his poopy diaper but that's nice of you to say that of
Carter
48:13
of the two of us who's got more experience cleaning up poopy diapers mr
Corey
48:19
between me and you i have three kids you
Corey
48:23
like it's hard to
Corey
48:25
track it's clearly me it's
Corey
48:26
it's 100 exactly that's
Annalise
48:29
uh our next segment if people like that there are still tickets left so they can buy tickets sunday night they don't
Corey
48:37
there are still tickets tickets available buy
Annalise
48:40
buy tickets come shape the show um
Annalise
48:42
next segment tori tanner had he had either of you heard of who tori tanner was before no but
Carter
48:49
but what an amazing name before
Annalise
48:51
before uh yesterday yeah
Annalise
48:53
so let's bridge west ucp candidate tori tanner um her
Annalise
48:58
her campaign video a part of it made the rounds uh yesterday in it she accuses teachers of showing porn to kids in kindergarten garden and of hiding gender reassignments from parents heavy stuff um
Annalise
49:13
today she said the video was about protecting children but her word choice is distracting and she's resigning word
Corey
49:22
word choice is distracting it's
Annalise
49:23
it's distracting yeah they're distracting but that's technically true
Annalise
49:27
the children still need to be protected uh cory why don't you jump in you've got you've got children you know about words i've
Corey
49:37
them being shown pornography in kindergarten you
Annalise
49:40
you know i got one
Corey
49:40
one more to go maybe you should
Annalise
49:41
start paying attention maybe it's a lethbridge maybe it's a lethbridge maybe it's a lethbridge right no
Corey
49:46
i mean like this is i mean what can you say this is sad it's on a certain level it's just sad it it is it is really deeply sad that people believe this nonsense that they believe this is happening that they've been taken taken in by these crazy conspiracy videos that are running through the Western world that have people convinced that teachers are showing pornography to six-year-olds. That's not fucking happening, people. That's simply not happening. And there's a hundred reasons why that's the case. There are an awful lot of, you know, checks and balances, shall we say, when we're dealing with young children. And when do you even think and how do you even think that would occur? These are ridiculous things to say. And to then conflate that with gender reassignment and then to make accusations more broadly and just blur all of the lines and just try to create this miasma of like you know sexual perversion and create these equivalencies between it's just gross it's gross behavior by these people and the fact that they've fallen into this this trap for themselves and they're believing these things and they're in these facebook threads and these reddit threads and this is just who they are really depresses me right and so i'm glad she's no longer a candidate i'm i'm really glad she's not a candidate anymore and i think it's really really unfortunate she even got to the place of being a candidate in the first place. Now, in terms of the UCP, I think Danielle Smith did learn something from 2012. She acted pretty quickly on this. She didn't let it become a lake of fire. And again, because it happened the same day that all this other stuff was going on, she could kind of do that and take a little bit of the pressure off her personally as she was dealing with the particular matter. But this
Corey
51:17
this is not going to be the only one. There are going to be UCP candidates who have views like this. And I think that's particularly true after like a decade of just like conspiracy theory conservatism and the fact that there's groups like um you know on the far right of parties who have started to take over candidates so so look i mean this is just in some ways i think an appetizer you're going to get the full course in a month it's not going to be very good yeah
Carter
51:46
mean you know who else believes this type of stuff? Artur Pawlowski, right? He's the preacher who's out there talking about these types of conspiracies. And this
Carter
51:58
this is all the more perplexing why Danielle Smith would put herself in a position where she was actually speaking to, you know, this type of an individual. This candidate is the candidate they want in Lethbridge. This candidate represents represents uh the future of the ucp and the future of conservatism as it is now seen um you
Carter
52:24
you know by the you know i i used to be what people would call conservative i used to be a concert progressive conservative i got a progressive conservative premier elected this type of conservatism has been around forever um the progressive conservatives pushed it out because it was and is um immoral uh it is uh disgusting
Carter
52:50
disgusting and we put it was hard work to make sure that they didn't integrate into uh the parties now
Carter
53:00
now this ucp wants this group of people to be uh their candidates their standard bearers they're the ones who recruited they're the ones who have literally, quote unquote, taken back Alberta. Danielle Smith is propped up by this group of people. The board of directors is 50% take back Alberta. This is what they believe. This is the center of where they believe it. And we are going to see it over and over and over again, especially if they are elected. You know, we saw ministers resigning, saying that they're not going to run, right? Taves and Sonia Savage are out. those were the those were the good ones those were the good ones i mean what's it going to be when this is all done rick mckiver and the crazies like you
Carter
53:49
you know this should be a band this
Carter
53:52
this is they shouldn't be in government but these are the candidates that they've recruited and these are the people that they're uh all they're doing right now is they're telling them please stop talking and instead just campaign on on our talking points and then we'll let you be crazy crazy when you win. We'll let you be crazy when you win. That should be their slogan as they go into this election. It's just, it's mind boggling to me.
Annalise
54:19
So as we see more of this, like you both noted that we are going to see more of this, this is who they are, this isn't going to be the only one. What's, do you think the public loses,
Annalise
54:32
you know, attention because there's just new drama every day? Or how does the NDP control that narrative of when another one happens to keep repeating the key message?
Corey
54:41
So look, I just want to be clear. I'm saying this is who some of them are. I'm not saying this is who all of them are. I want to be super clear. No, it's
Carter
54:47
it's me who's saying it's all of them.
Corey
54:50
it's you who's saying that. Yeah,
Carter
54:51
Yeah, it's Stephen Carter with Stephen with a PH.
Corey
54:55
There will be more situations like this. And people will get a little bit numb to them as they go along because things have less outrage as it goes it goes but it is also true that at a certain point it becomes undeniable that this is part of your brand and who you are and that will affect them with certain voters voters they need in calgary in suburban calgary who are going to decide this election for them so i certainly if i was the ucp wouldn't think like
Corey
55:25
let's just take an i know it's not what you're saying but let's take an obvious example it's not good when you've got a bunch of candidates who come out and take this kind of um you know dent into your party yes
Corey
55:36
yes the fifth one will have less of an effect than the first one but they're still having an effect they're still having a downward effect on your party so you know if you're the ucp you do need to try to bottle this up and if i were danielle smith i would be looking very carefully at my candidates and i would be saying we've
Corey
55:53
we've got to do as much oppo you
Corey
55:55
you know or the kind of work of oppo on our own people as we do on on the other team and frankly that that's just one-on-one stuff these days anyhow carter
Annalise
56:04
carter jump in oppo's
Carter
56:05
oppo's already been done these
Carter
56:07
these were the people they recruited these
Carter
56:09
these are the people that were put forward by take back alberta and take back alberta is too strong a group to um to
Carter
56:17
to be pushed back on by the party apparatus in fact they are the party apparatus. This is the party that they want. And I think that where the conflict is going to come is when the people who are running the UCP campaign are trying to get the pulse of the general population. And they're saying to the crazy candidates from Take Back alberta and from from these these kind of small you know small-minded thought creation
Carter
56:53
stop talking like this these people are going to say this is what our voters expect this is what our voters want you want to know why danielle smith had to take that phone call in my opinion because that's what her voters expect and if arthur went out and said i can't even get a telephone call with the premier they would have been pissed and that's that's where The deal with the devil that they have created as this party is the thing that will undo them. The only question is, will it undo them prior to the election or will it undo them after the election? And if you're the NDP, you got to make sure that it's prior to the election. You got to make sure that the resonance of each of these bozo eruptions or whatever we We come to call them after the, you know, after the 2023 election, whatever these things are as as they occur is incumbent upon the NDP to ensure that the media are telling the full story. The media don't become bored with the story and that they just
Carter
57:53
just get told over and over and over again to the general population, because I actually think it's the media who's going to get tired, not the general population.
Corey
58:03
Well, and on that note, if you're the NDP, you've got to be thinking about paid in this, right? You've got to be thinking about how you make sure. God,
Carter
58:11
so good, eh? Oh,
Corey
58:11
Oh, we're so good. You know, when you can't get earned, you go to paid. That's the point.
Carter
58:16
You know who you could hire to do that?
Corey
58:18
Oh, Zane Velji. Wait, no, Zane's not here.
Corey
58:23
am I supposed to plug you or Annalise? Yeah,
Annalise
58:27
are you with? Yeah, Champion Communications. We don't do paid, though. Oh,
Corey
58:31
Oh, they don't do paid. They don't do
Annalise
58:32
do paid. I'm no Northweather.
Annalise
58:35
We get media the good old-fashioned way.
Annalise
58:45
Great ads from a company here, Carter. Good work.
Carter
58:48
work. Well, you said the old-fashioned way. I just
Annalise
58:51
just naturally assumed. Media. Reporters. Yeah.
Annalise
58:55
Yeah. We can move on to our lightning round here. You
Corey
58:59
You don't want to talk about your company, Blackmail? people anymore that's weird to me no
Annalise
59:02
we'll move on pictures
Carter
59:03
pictures like what do you got on most of these people like tell me what you got on don walton tell me you know just between us just
Carter
59:10
just between us round
Annalise
59:12
um what do we have for lighting round okay i guess this is like this is my lighting round question we've these are like big meaty topics we're like you know laughing about talking about today but like these are big things right like an indictment uh this phone call even the video itself like in all this has happened within 24
Annalise
59:34
24 hours a little more than 24 hours um
Annalise
59:38
and you've wrapped you've both referenced it throughout tonight like just this pace and and just even right now right the media getting bored you two have been in this like politics game for a while is this has
Annalise
59:51
has it always been like this is this unprecedented like why is there so much stuff happening all the time and how do you how do you keep people's interest you
Carter
1:00:03
want to do it cory or you want me to uh you
Corey
1:00:05
you go ahead i don't i don't know i mean
Carter
1:00:07
mean i think that there has always been a situation where more happens
Carter
1:00:12
happens when you don't want it to right like you just get a story established and all of a sudden something else happens and breaks and now you've lost that that particular hook because the world has moved on to a new story um i think you're right the difference is the frequency right so we used to lose a story after about 24 hours sometimes 48 hours a really good story would go for three days now we're seeing stories that barely barely resonate for a couple of minutes i i this the trump thing could be one of the longest stories that we'll see. And it's going to go probably until Tuesday, Wednesday, like it'll be it'll be packaged in a couple different stories. I'm dying to see how the networks carry it over through the weekend, like the CNN run a countdown to indictment or countdown to arrest. You know, like, I'm really interested to see how we capture the public's attention. But one thing to keep in mind, even when all these stories are breaking at once, and all of us as news hounds are going holy crap that's so much stuff that's happening all at once the average person isn't seeing it that way the average person will wait and then the story will bubble up to them it isn't this immediate thing that we see as you know avid twitter followers and we're all paying for our you know elon musk blue check mark um we we we see things so much faster than gen pop because we're the only ones paying attention and i think that this type of stuff might be required to get the general population to even pay attention long enough to see it uh all unfold
Carter
1:01:57
that's my thesis do you like that cory you're probably going to agree right
Annalise
1:02:00
right of course thesis was i don't know well i
Annalise
1:02:04
don't know how to tackle
Corey
1:02:04
tackle the question it's it's fundamentally it's like like saying, how politics, right? Like, it's
Corey
1:02:09
like, it is the
Annalise
1:02:10
the nature of the beast, right?
Corey
1:02:11
right? But I'll say this, as we deal with more and more issues and less and less attention, really the importance of bundling them into bigger narratives grows. And that's kind of the point that I think needs to be underlined here. It's no longer about winning the issue. It's about making the issue part of a narrative and making sure that that narrative sticks. And you do that through earned, you do that through paid, and you do that through making sure that things build up to bigger things so when you're talking about danielle smith talking to arthur palowski you're also talking to danielle smith talking about uh not supporting ukraine you're talking about some of her previous comments on uh people who have been uh unvaccinated being you know the most persecuted a bunch group you make it a bigger story about judgment and you're constantly pushing bigger narratives and you're trying to reinforce those narratives on an ongoing basis based on the issues of the day that's your earned your paid media which is reminding people of these stories and keeping them in the foreground and your owned media so any splashy content you can create that you can then propagate out there and and just have exist when people look for things like danielle smith right and all of a sudden it's a little bit higher in search so i i mean again it's like it's a big question not not easy to tackle enlightening round but that's the nature of politics these days attentions low issues frequent go
Annalise
1:03:32
well yeah it's like attention low issues frequent and then media shrinking and yeah to that point about like being on the front page of the herald well there is no front page of the herald on mondays that's
Corey
1:03:42
that's a really important point because one of the things that traditionally media has done for us is create narratives you know don
Corey
1:03:49
braid creates narratives about this party over time reminds you of previous things he's written does this we don't have that anymore now it's just a bunch of stuff and so the political parties are increasingly required to create the narratives themselves they can't rely on other people to generate the narratives for them which is not to say there's a liberal media i want to be really clear on this point it's to say storytelling is inherent in the media's job
Corey
1:04:13
when there's no media there's no storytelling so somebody else has got to pick up the storytelling telling yeah
Carter
1:04:19
and and you'll see more of this discussion at our live show in the grand on
Carter
1:04:24
on whenever that day is sunday
Carter
1:04:29
was it to do sunday because i'm gonna be kind of carter
Annalise
1:04:32
carter it was yours it
Corey
1:04:33
it was yours steve whose idea
Annalise
1:04:35
idea was it to do the live show it was yours yeah
Carter
1:04:39
i like the live shows live shows are fun we're
Annalise
1:04:42
we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on One question in
Carter
1:04:45
in the lightning round?
Annalise
1:04:46
Yeah, it was a heavy question. I didn't even say we
Carter
1:04:48
we do it for you.
Annalise
1:04:50
It was a heavy question. That's a wrap on episode 1046 of The Strategist. My name is Annalise Klingbeil. With you, as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan.